kitchen troubles in my first rehab. what would a flipper do?
Portsmouth, VA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 8 votes
so long story short I bought a property that needs a lot of rehab and my budget borders on just enough which to be honest i'm sure is never really enough but enough small talk. bought the property for 200k, have 35k for rehab but planning to only use 30k and leaving 5k for buffer. the arv will be easily 300k if done right. anyone have advice on how to get this house a kitchen becoming of a 300k house for as cheap as I can get it while keeping quality.
I've looked into buying ikea boxes and putting expensive faces on them and also into buying from a reuse store and having home depot reface them but I don't want to pull the trigger without seeing what others have experienced. i'll be living in the house so what jobs do you think I should do on my own and what should I contract? By the way i'm a naval electrican by trade.
So you are going to live in it while you renovate?
Based on your post, your saying that only a kitchen rehab would yield a 300K ARV? Your question is too broad. I'm going to assume a few things for me to answer your question accordingly.
1. Assumption is the home is in good condition and only the kitchen needs the most repair. Most of your budget will go into the kitchen.
2. Ikea? Please stay away from that. If around your area is comps around 300K. You need to see what type of kitchen they are using for you to make this assessment. Because some area doesn't need high-end kitchen to comp to 300K and vice versa. It depends on the demographic of this area (buyers). So based on your assessment you'll know what type kitchen you'll need.
3. To save money, is DIY. So look if your comfortable with your hands, find labor help and buy the items at tile/granite places that sell prefab plates (since its a flip). You give them the dimensions, and they will cut it to the exact.
4. Cabinets you can find deals at your local hardware store (independent local cabinetry). The style you choose needs to be within the comp's style. So don't go too far "left field" if the surrounding area has a specific style.
5. If you notice in my advice, I have theme of, following the comps. Because that is your data you'll rely on to justify your 300K ARV. Don't go off of trends, or what other market does. You must stay course to the comps in your area.
6. Most important but may be obvious, look at perceived value vs actual value. Never pay for something that doesn't look luxury (unless your in a high-end market that knows their stuff). Always buy things as cheap as possible while looking "luxury". To your point above, IKEA does have some items that are cheap that look nice, but they are known for poor quality, so I would be picky on what to buy if IKEA is the route.
7. Since this is your first flip..be done ASAP and sell it. Don't hold it as you can't afford mistakes. a 65K margin based on your ARV can quickly evaporate (excluding selling expense). Good news is selling season is around the corner so it'll be favorable for you to sell then.
Hope that helps! and good luck, let us know how this turns out
So you are going to live in it while you renovate?
Based on your post, your saying that only a kitchen rehab would yield a 300K ARV? Your question is too broad. I'm going to assume a few things for me to answer your question accordingly.
1. Assumption is the home is in good condition and only the kitchen needs the most repair. Most of your budget will go into the kitchen.
2. Ikea? Please stay away from that. If around your area is comps around 300K. You need to see what type of kitchen they are using for you to make this assessment. Because some area doesn't need high-end kitchen to comp to 300K and vice versa. It depends on the demographic of this area (buyers). So based on your assessment you'll know what type kitchen you'll need.
3. To save money, is DIY. So look if your comfortable with your hands, find labor help and buy the items at tile/granite places that sell prefab plates (since its a flip). You give them the dimensions, and they will cut it to the exact.
4. Cabinets you can find deals at your local hardware store (independent local cabinetry). The style you choose needs to be within the comp's style. So don't go too far "left field" if the surrounding area has a specific style.
5. If you notice in my advice, I have theme of, following the comps. Because that is your data you'll rely on to justify your 300K ARV. Don't go off of trends, or what other market does. You must stay course to the comps in your area.
6. Most important but may be obvious, look at perceived value vs actual value. Never pay for something that doesn't look luxury (unless your in a high-end market that knows their stuff). Always buy things as cheap as possible while looking "luxury". To your point above, IKEA does have some items that are cheap that look nice, but they are known for poor quality, so I would be picky on what to buy if IKEA is the route.
7. Since this is your first flip..be done ASAP and sell it. Don't hold it as you can't afford mistakes. a 65K margin based on your ARV can quickly evaporate (excluding selling expense). Good news is selling season is around the corner so it'll be favorable for you to sell then.
Hope that helps! and good luck, let us know how this turns out
Think we need a few pictures to be able to give you any real input on it. If your strapped for cash, do it yourself if you have the skill for each upgrade needed. Hit up craigslist to find lightly used stuff like cabinets, etc. You can also hire a friend that has the skills on what they call a 1099 form, and pay them by the hour for $10-15 for extra cash.
I just bought a new house for myself, ironically its a foreclosure, but I gutted all the bathroom vanities and got new ones. I posted them on craigslist and some guy bought them off me the very next day and told me he was flipping a house. I'd say he got 50-75% off most items vs buying them new, and you would not know the difference.
sorry for being too vague. the house needs a new roof, new floors, bathroom improvements, windows, and lastly a new kitchen.
I've gotten an estimate of the work and so far 30k looks like just barely enough. whats the least you've spent on a good kitchen?
@Michael L. thank you for the advice on the comps. I thnk I was starting to drift away from looking at them to more of what I wanted in the house.
I hope things are cheaper there than in NJ, $30k wouldn't begin to cover that list here even with a lot of DIY. Stay away from Ikea, there's simply no reason to buy particle board cabs when there's great alternative at least as cheap. My most recent kitchen was a chinese import knockdown called Fabuwood. I was very impressed with the quality vs even Kraftmaid.
See this thread https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/271186-whos-using-ikea-cabinets-talk-me-out-of-using-them?page=2
5. If you notice in my advice, I have theme of, following the comps.
That is your bottom line when making all Reno decisions to flip. You don't decide, the market does, so you need to get out there and find out what you need to do. Once you know the market you then decide what you need to spend and how it will impact your final price. Keep in mind kitchens and bathrooms sell. Any box will hold a dish but Kitchens are the ultimate lipstick on the pig.
so long story short I bought a property that needs a lot of rehab and my budget borders on just enough which to be honest i'm sure is never really enough but enough small talk. bought the property for 200k, have 35k for rehab but planning to only use 30k and leaving 5k for buffer. the arv will be easily 300k if done right. anyone have advice on how to get this house a kitchen becoming of a 300k house for as cheap as I can get it while keeping quality.
I've looked into buying ikea boxes and putting expensive faces on them and also into buying from a reuse store and having home depot reface them but I don't want to pull the trigger without seeing what others have experienced. i'll be living in the house so what jobs do you think I should do on my own and what should I contract? By the way i'm a naval electrican by trade.
Sorry but I think your approach is all wrong and it sounds as if you paid too much for the house. If you want to sell a house for a higher price than you bought it at, you must add real value to it. That means making real improvements of a good quality, comesurate with comps in the area. It doesn't mean installing cheap or inferior items disguised as good (that is fraudulent).
The cost to make the proper improvements is a certain amount that must be spent. It is not dictated by your arbitrary budget. As a flipper, you must therefore buy the house at a cheap enough price to add real value to the house and still make a profit. End buyers should not have to be victimized because an investor made a bad investment.
my goal is not to put the cheapest product I can find in the house. It's too hit the right balance between my budget and quality work. That's why I'm on the forums asking people with experience before I pull the trigger. The good thing about living in the house is i can take my time getting to the things I can't afford right now. Also the kitchen I was quoted from home Depot matched or surpassed those in comps at 15k. Luckily for me none of the houses under 400k have a fully custom kitchen. Please don't misunderstand. I just want to look at all my optionswith this being my first. I'm hoping that someone can share the secrete to getting great kitchens because right now my budget will only allow for an acceptable kitchen. That's just the hard fact.
I'm hoping that someone can share the secrete to getting great kitchens because right now my budget will only allow for an acceptable kitchen. That's just the hard fact.
Everyone has a different definition of a great kitchen. If you like the pic I posted in the thread I linked, I'll tell you what I do.
I'm hoping that someone can share the secrete to getting great kitchens because right now my budget will only allow for an acceptable kitchen. That's just the hard fact.
Everyone has a different definition of a great kitchen. If you like the pic I posted in the thread I linked, I'll tell you what I do.
Hey I do like them. Please share.
My advice is to go RTA cabinets. I've found you can get all the bells and whistles (soft close, plywood boxes, etc) for cheaper pricing. You won't get custom sizes, but if you can make 3" increment sizing work, they seem to be a great option.
Ok thank you. I plan on writing all of these down, price quoting, going over the pros and cons of each and posting my results. I really think with all of these options I can do something really special with this house. thank you all
also please keep the tips and recommendations coming.
Just renovated a rental in Chesapeake. Home Emporium near S. Military and Battlefield carries KitchenKompact.com cabinets, great inexpensive plywood cabinet, but only limited sizes and styles, so if they don't have what you need, you're out of luck for that brand. Since they didn't carry the size we wanted, we narrowed it down to Cabinets to Go and lilyanncabinets.com, Home Depot/Lowes route was too expensive for all plywood boxes. Lilyann pricing was better, but went with Cabinets to Go as they were local, we could see the finished product in the showroom, soft-close included in price, and they helped us figure out all the trim options as we were hanging several from ceiling directly and needed panel, corner moulding, light trim, etc.
Home Emporium also has excellent prices on porcelain tile, countertops, etc.
I'm hoping that someone can share the secrete to getting great kitchens because right now my budget will only allow for an acceptable kitchen. That's just the hard fact.
Everyone has a different definition of a great kitchen. If you like the pic I posted in the thread I linked, I'll tell you what I do.
Hey I do like them. Please share.
Alright. Here's the kitchen.
Floors & backsplash: 12x12 $1.80/ft porcelain "stone look" jet printed textured tile from Lowes. You can get tile cheaper, but it looks it. The 6x6 tiles are more expensive, like $0.80 each.
Cabs: These are RTA's from a local home center that I get assembled. This kitchen was about $1200. In the Fabuwood RTA's assembled the same kitchen was about $2k. But they are higher quality, with soft close slides and hinges.
Pulls from DiscountHomeFurnishings.com. Awesome prices.
6 x Cosmas 783SN Satin Nickel Cabinet Cup Pull (783SN) = $12.30
16 x Cosmas 4950SN Satin Nickel Cabinet Knob (4950SN) = $18.40
Counters are DIY granite tile. I think it's great for rental, not so sure about flip. But it's $5/ft for granite, plus 2 layers of 3/4 ply and a layer of Ditra.
Undercab lighting: I bought LED tape strips from Amazon, stuck down 2 strips to 1/16 x 1" aluminum cut to each cab, screwed them up. I had wired an outlet on the overhead light circuit into the interior of a cabinet, so I plugged in the power supply, and ran the wire down to the LED's. MUCH cheaper than typical systems, it cost like $25. It does take a little hand soldering. I liked it so much that in the identical unit I'm working on now I'm also doing it on the cabs flanking the range.
hey guys thank you for everything. I finally have before pictures to post. also its looking like i'll be raising my budget to 40-50k due to stagnant water the inspector found at under the property and the fact that realisticly speaking 30k will cover only the house minus the kitchen. he said there is mold and crud everywhere down there. if you have any experience with stagnant water in the crawl space
please share. lastly if you know any good contractors in the Virginia beach area please do share. to spit the pictures I really do think this house could be something very special.
with no futher adu I give you my before picture.
tell me what you guys think or any ideas you have. its in Virginia beach Virginia and is my first rehab. any recommendations/referals are welcome
RTA cabinets are your friend, Google around there are plenty of places online. If you're not good at doing a layout many will do that for you if you provide dimensions. Don't forget to ask for the contractor discount, can usually save an extra 10-15%. Hardware and faucets look online. For appliances find a local discount supplier like a scratch and dent store. Nobody cares if their fridge has a dent on the side.
doesn't look like you can on your mobile app. Needs to be done on a computer. I hope you can because it sounds amazing.
I did my kitchen in Philadelphia, only paying for materials. I changed the layout but did not move the sink.
1600 Cabinets (Home Depot white)
500 subfloor prep - 3/4"ply and hardi backer
500 porcelain floor tiles, grout, spacers
350 premade (lowes) laminate countertops I installed (about 13 linear feet, with two 5' runs)
150 garbage disposal
1000 - new SS gas stove/range, used SS dishwasher, used SS over the range microwave (kept old SS fridge so did not need new fridge)
300 - backsplash tile/grout - beveled subway tile laid in a "herringbone" pattern
200 - paint
The two jobs that were the most PIA were installing the cabinets and cutting/installing the laminate coutertops.
The cabinets just took a long time because nothing in this 100+ yr old home is square or level. Tough to do alone but much easier with a friend or two. Gotta make sure everything is level (side-side, front-back, and diagonal). I had to use shims everywhere.
The countertops were difficult to install for the same reason as the cabinets. I saved a lot of money by choosing a cheaper material, and they look great! Although I would recommend having a professional install counter tops for you, especially if you are choosing a nicer product like granite. For me it was too many mess ups and a lot of trips back to the store. I did it myself because I was out of money. The original plan had been to go with professionally installed granite (about 1700 more at least).
These were very difficult to cut. I needed a special circular saw blade with many small teeth to avoid shredding up the lam as the blade cut through. I also had to measure out and tape over the cutting line for the same reason. The first few times I tried to build a "track" with a straight edge and clamps to keep my cuts in a straight line. This did't work because the countertops had a premade/built in backsplash of about 3-4 inches. In the end I ruined a few pieces and just had to cut with a steady hand. If I had been able to make square cuts it would have been a lot easier.
I recommend doing your own tiling, especially if you have done that job before. You can save a lot of money on the labor, and you can make really nice looking patterns using cheap basic tiles and spice it up with more expensive tiles as accents. The key is really planning out your grout lines and taking your time. Make sure all tiles sit level with each other. And make sure you won't have any overly "skinny" cuts at any of the edges of the room. Keep checking those grout lines the whole time!
man this sounds exhausting and inspiring at the same time. I plan on taking time off from work and I might really be able to do it. .. looking into all my options for now. If you don't mind pouting a picture if you don't mind.
The countertops were difficult to install for the same reason as the cabinets.
Max, if you have tile chops and a good wet saw, try a granite tile top next time, it's much easier to compensate for all those issues. My buildings are all over 100 years old and nothing is square. The wall can wave all it wants, you just cut the back course to fit, and the tile backsplash covers the back edges. And it's MUCH more durable than those laminate tops. Water ALWAYS gets under them and pops out the particle board. I swore never again, which is why I learned to do tile tops.