ASBESTOS here we go UGH

Rehabbing & House Flipping
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ASBESTOS here we go UGH

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

Not sure how your states are handling this but Oregon passed new laws in January and they are not kidding.

we got caught in the middle of the change and got a 16k fine plus had to pay 19k for remediation.

now this project can handle those extra costs.

We have another right now were the state actually sent inspectors and sure enough the siding has Asbestos' waiting to get the change order on that one.

again this project can handle any over run.

My thought though out in other states were you have lower value assets.. this Asbestos remediation can cost as much or more than the house.. and we are not talking lead  paint that's on top of it.

Any one seeing your state do the same thing..

flipper beware in Portlandia /  Oregon.

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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y

@Jay Hinrichs

Despite being one of the world's largest (if not the largest) exporter of asbestos, most jurisdictions here will require removal - where there is {risk of} exposure {ie. conditioned spaces or exterior if there is a chance of the asbestos becoming friable} - or encapsulate where there is low to no risk.    Buyer's comfort and insurance companies may push for removal in all instances.

Fortunately, not all forms of asbestos abatement are equally difficult, dangerous, or expensive.  Removing asbestos/concrete siding/shingles falls into the easy and not expensive category and with a little preparation and 15-minutes of training, your average siding/roofing crew could strip and bag the side of a house.

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  • Anastasia Jordan
    Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 305 votes
    9y

    What year was these homes built??? Before the rehab project started wouldn't the project lead know to check for abestos on structures built before a certain year? Would this type of fine flag you or your company when it comes to taking out insurance?   

    (excuse all the question im a rookie, lol)

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    well we sure find out ahead of time now.. given that we got dinged for 16k... and then had to pay about 5 times what it should have cost since we were in trouble.. another 19k.. not including the fee I paid my environmental lawyer who got the fine reduced by about half.  LOL

    this could have been devastating to a first timer.

    but bottom line is yes.. if you suspect asbestos you need to have it check then remediated same with lead paint

    so houses that have these issues are worth less money for sure. at least to a major renovator

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  • Chris Masons
    Investor · Union, NJ · Member since 2011 · 838 posts · 295 votes
    9y

    Jay,

    Can you elaborate on the change in law regarding Asbestos in your state? Are they requiring any known Asbestos requires immediate remediation even if intact and undisturbed?

    Here in Jersey it is very typical to find Asbestos wrapped steam pipes in basement along with older tile flooring and some older siding...

    Things are getting very challenging it seems....

    Thx,

    Chris

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  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    Despite being one of the world's largest (if not the largest) exporter of asbestos, most jurisdictions here will require removal - where there is {risk of} exposure {ie. conditioned spaces or exterior if there is a chance of the asbestos becoming friable} - or encapsulate where there is low to no risk.    Buyer's comfort and insurance companies may push for removal in all instances.

    Fortunately, not all forms of asbestos abatement are equally difficult, dangerous, or expensive.  Removing asbestos/concrete siding/shingles falls into the easy and not expensive category and with a little preparation and 15-minutes of training, your average siding/roofing crew could strip and bag the side of a house.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Roy N.  well I am waiting for our change order on the siding.. thanks for the feedback I think these guys know they gotcha... I may have to just go get the licesne myself.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Chris Masons  this was in conjunction with complete demo's 

    Not sure you have to do anything if you don't disturb it but will have to find out.

    I just know our state is focused on it

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  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    9y

    We test every house we work on that was built prior to 1980 or so. Testing is generally well south of $1,000, and I consider it a workplace safety issue for our employees... not to mention it is technically a legal requirement. (Although there isn't really any enforcement around here unless you are tearing the house down)

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McGinnis  I used to kind of poo poo it until I was on a flight earlier this year and watch the movie Le Mans Steve McQueen story... and at the end they told what caused his cancer and took him at 50.

    it was the asbestos in his racing suit...

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  • Aaron McGinnis
    Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs - A real wake up call for me was realizing how many houses built in the 50s and 60s have asbestos in the wall mud. Anecdotally, we test hot for asbestos about 75% of the time in houses built during that period. As far as I know, we're one of the few (or only) companies in our area doing this kind of testing routinely. 

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  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McGinnis

    Around here it is plaster and blueboard from the 30s/40s and mud from the 50s ... and then there are those late 60s/early 70s popcorn ceilings.

    I was in an old Victorian duplex (since converted to 4 units) a couple of months ago and the original coal-fired-the-converted-to-oil boiler was in the middle of the basement encased in layers of asbestos cloth and plaster.  Rather than abate the asbestos and remove the boiler, some previous owner had sprayed it with what looks like a thick layer of polyurethane ... perhaps passing for encapsulation in its day.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Roy N.  well even lip stick reno;'s in this area the pop corn is taken down.. have to check into that one as well.  typical would be an undocumented aliegn doing the pop corn take down in our area.

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  • Chris Pebley
    Lake Oswego, OR · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs do you see or have you heard if this affects remodels to either the interior or exterior?

    I'm looking at purchasing a 60''s fixer and might change the interior floor plan at some point.

    It looks like it only addresses complete demos. SB871 correct?

    Thanks for the heads up! Good looking out.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Chris Pebley  my run ins with DEQ were demo's  I demod 5 homes in the last 9 months.. new construction going up.

    we are dealing with DEQ on an oil tank and that's a normal remodel.  were you have to abide by the law is you have to dump it at specific locations and have it bagged and tagged I guess.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    9y

    We just typically cover asbestos. Asbestos floor tiles, put new floor over it. Asbestos in the mud, we just put new drywall up over it. I just sold one of my own properties in MA that had asbestos siding,...i just always left it alone and never touched it. It actually helped save my house when the house next door caught on fire. If it had been vinyl siding, my house would have burnt to the ground with the one next door.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Russell Brazil   I think now that I am getting this feedback this is because we are demolishing these places... but I had another inspector from the state come on a rehab I was doing and fine the contractor for not handling lead paint correctly.

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  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Sounds like another great revenue raising and government employability racquet for the city under the auspicious of safety.
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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Steve B.  big brother is DEQ  they are hammering on this.. according to the lawyer I hired to defend the one deal.. he said about 75% of their cases right now is chasing down these asbestos deals.

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  • Alice K.
    Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 306 posts · 211 votes
    9y

    Thank you for the share! 

    I've been in several buildings in Washington that read: "Beware, there may be asbestos." (something similar to this). Wonder if that's going to start being enforced there...

    Also, lead paint... That's one I'm curious about in regards to what others have spent for removal. 

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  • Alice K.
    Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 306 posts · 211 votes
    9y

    @Roy N. / @Russell Brazil - have you happened to deal with lead paint removal before? Curious if there are any pro tips for dealing with that as I keep passing listings with: "Oh, BTW, watch out "may" be lead paint here..." 

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  • Jim Shepard
    Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes
    9y
    Jay Hinrichs I haven't had to deal with asbestos for 30 years so I don't know if they are still doing this or not. Back then if you had more 30 trash bags of asbestos it was put an enclosed tomb that then placed in a landfill. Worst part was the government then kept track of how much you put into the tomb. If they ever figure out how to destroy it, they then come back to you with a bill. Strange part is it's a naturally occurring element that comes from the ground!
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  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McGinnis

    The plasterer that has worked on a couple of my projects was telling me he started his plaster apprenticeship  program in 1952 (he's now in his mid eighties and still does small jobs). He said they use to have a bucket of asbestos flakes and pick up a handful and throw it in the plaster mix. He said he's the only guy from his apprentice class still alive.

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  • Sylvia B.
    Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Aaron McGinnis  I used to kind of poo poo it until I was on a flight earlier this year and watch the movie Le Mans Steve McQueen story... and at the end they told what caused his cancer and took him at 50.

    it was the asbestos in his racing suit...

    Hmmm... that one sets off the BS meter. Unless his racing suit was regularly shredded, causing the asbestos to become airborne, there is no way it caused his cancer. Asbestos is not radioactive, doesn't ooze chemicals into your skin, and unless it's disturbed, it doesn't affect the air. To affect you at all, it must be shredded, sanded, drilled, sawn, or otherwise pulverized in a manner that puts fine particles into the air that you breathe. Even then, single or infrequent exposure is not going to do it, unless you already have other health issues.

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  • Ryan K.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2015 · 139 posts · 43 votes
    9y

    Yep, very little connection to a racing suit unless it was shredded regularly. 

    Steve McQueen in his early life was in the Marines and at one point removed pipe insulation from troop ships. This was before they knew how harmful asbestos could be. It's much more likely that is what caused the health issues.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Sylvia B.@Ryan K.  well watch the movie that's what they put down in the closing credits... but then again that's Hollywood... .  thanks for that clarification...

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  • Patrick L.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    9y

    Here you can encapsulate the asbestos but disturbing it would cause those same issues.  If you are going to demo a house here you'll need an asbestos inspection and abatement of all asbestos found as part of the permitting process.  Most of the homes that people are going to demo here have asbestos and the abatement generally costs more than the demolition itself.  

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