Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes
Flip Men on Spike TV
For those who don't know what it's about,it's about 2 men who buy properties sight unseen,rehab flip them and sell them for profit much like the earlier flip shows only difference is that they buy the properties sight unseen and take the risk of buying badly damaged homes in order to turn a profit.
My favorite part was their original exit value of $139k that magically increased to a final sold price of $189k. So basically, because they added a bath upstairs and took a week to paint the exterior brick (yeah right) and they changed the layout of the staircase and opened up a wall, they gained $50k in value? I cant wait for my next project, I will add a $4500 bathroom, do some additional paint work and open up a wall so I can make $50k too!!!
Andy,
I do believe there are some real blow hards at the auctions who are not shy about showing their distaste for anyone new showing up at the courthouse steps. They are not friendly, they will not answer any questions and they will all snicker amongst themselves (if they are the true bidders, not the paid runners).
I think it really is an issue that the investors who have been bidding on the foreclosures for 5 or more years, with some real war stories (like properties tied up for over 1 year after foreclosure by owners suing anyone they can name) truly do not want all this brand new competition.
It took 3 years of hiding in a corner before anyone would even be nice to me.
This is pretty much the exact scene in denver. Dominated by a few good ol boys. Knowing them a little outside the auction scene, they are OK guys, just dont want competition. Denver stated there is no dealmaking while a bid is active, since the guys would whisper and cavort with eachother mid-bid. A few big boys will make your life hell and ensure you never get a deal and never come back if they dont like you.
Like I said, nothing personal against these guys, just near impossible to play on their playground.
Seems that there is a similar situation at most auctions. Lots of tough talk about bidding up the new guys. I don't know about anyone else but I always go to the auction with a "line in the sand" that I won't cross. Generally the bidding goes pretty far beyond it to. That said I only go to the auction if I have inside info on the property going to sale. Mostly just short sales that havent been accepted and go to sale.
Seems that there is a similar situation at most auctions. Lots of tough talk about bidding up the new guys. I don't know about anyone else but I always go to the auction with a "line in the sand" that I won't cross. Generally the bidding goes pretty far beyond it to. That said I only go to the auction if I have inside info on the property going to sale. Mostly just short sales that havent been accepted and go to sale.
My dad is an auto wholesaler and when I go with him we do the same thing. Draw your line in the sand before the bidding ever starts and you will never get bit up. We dont always buy a car but when we do it is always for a good price. I think it would be good practice for buying houses at auction. You risk much less and you can get the feel for how an auction works. Also, not sure if this happens in RE but with cars you have to make sure someone else is actually bidding. They will look away and act like someone just made a bid and have you bidding yourself up. So keep your head on a swivel.
Shows like this reminds me of when I talked to my Doctor buddies about the show Nip Tuck (used to love it!). They would always say the operations and procedures and in general, how things worked on the show were all 8ullshit compared to real life situations and now, I can kinda see what they mean when I watch the flip shows. A lot of it just seems so unrealistic or staged. I remembered watching one show where it outlined the following numbers;
buy: 100k
rehab: 10k
sell: 120k
profit: 10k
I seriously saw them post this on the screen and just shook my head, changed the channel.
One other thing I noticed, they claimed to have done this rehab in about a month, and claimed the added bathroom added imense value to the property (I believe they quoted a $20k increase), well I don't know how it works in Utah, but here in CA, adding a bathrom only adds value if it gets onto title and to do that requires permits from teh city/county. That process not only takes a lot of time (submitting plans, plan check, building, inspections, final approvals) it also costs much more than the $4500 they quoted.
In summary, just another overly dramatic show with few details and glorified profits. The real world is much different and if you want to know how it is really done in the real world, come listen to a local investor speak who knows and does what he/she talks about. Your local investor club and BP Nation are two great options.
They will only make money on these flips if the show is picked up and more episodes are ordered. I for one feel the misinformation does harm to our industry and I hope the show flops.
I agree that the misinformation is harmful to the industry. Look how many people have attempted flipping houses because it looks so easy on these shows...although personal responsibility plays a factor here as well.
Unfortunately, some people do not realize that these shows are for entertainment and are designed to bring in the most viewers possible.
I'd like to see a documentary on house flipping. That would be really interesting and also educational. They should tell the stories of people who lost money as well as the ones who were successful.
I'm not a fan of reality tv with it's fake and scripted dramas! So sad for people who take it seriously and think it's easy to make money on house flips.
Seems in my limited time here there is plenty of new blood showing up on a daily and weekly basis. A "realty" show could cover first time investors, first time flipper, first time land lords and all the fun, challenge, risk, and reward that goes with those things. Some will be successful, some will fail, but at least it could be real people.
I for one would like Will Barnard to do a flip show and show how it's done :mrgreen:
Funny you mentioned that, I started to work on doing one as I have a great idea for one, the problem I found after speaking to a friend in the biz is the time and cost factor for me to get it on air. Plus, I would not have the drama they manipulate and it appears that the people of this country are only interested in BS drama rather than real education so I doubt my show idea would sell.
I for one would like Will Barnard to do a flip show and show how it's done :mrgreen:
Funny you mentioned that, I started to work on doing one as I have a great idea for one, the problem I found after speaking to a friend in the biz is the time and cost factor for me to get it on air. Plus, I would not have the drama they manipulate and it appears that the people of this country are only interested in BS drama rather than real education so I doubt my show idea would sell.
Will, not to cramp your style... but maybe add the twist that you mentor newbies in your show... the "know it all" beginners would add plenty of their own drama with their mistakes and resisting your guidance.
We too have seen an increase in what I call "idiot bids". Last week someone bought a property for $101K that was worth $150K. Not a horrible deal on it's face... until you found out that it had an open lien of $69,600 that would ordinarily be covered by Title Insurance, but since bought at auction it absolves Title of their obligation.
Good luck rehabbing that one.
I'm happy to see these folks make idiot bids all day long... there is more than enough inventory where we buy, and dumb money doesn't last very long.
I agree that most of these flip shows are just a joke. I remember watching one where an investor kept telling the sub to do all these shortcuts and the sub was telling him it should be done correctly. The investor's response was "I don't care, I'm not gonna be living here". That takes you straight to d-bag level in my book.
I always really enjoyed the one will Richard and Trademark properties in South Carolina. I don't remember there being a bunch of drama crap on that show.
I agree that Trademark Properties in South Carolina had about the best show for flipping on television. There was very little drama and it seemed factual based.
The latest episode of Flip Men really had me rolling my eyes. If these guys are professionals, you'd think they'd know their market inside and out before placing a bid. I can understand not knowing the details of a house (to a certain extent), but they should at least recognize a street name to know that it's a war zone. Buying a house on a blind bid at an auction when you know it's in a tough neighborhood is just plain stupid. I'd love to see them ACTUALLY make money on it by selling to a retail buyer given all the gang activity. Unreal.
I just watched a recorded show. I did not think it was too bad, definitely made for TV. I liked how the one gentleman tries to kick in the plywood on a window before buying but then discovers the front door is unlocked after buying. I was really shocked by how few bidders there were at auction. Phoenix is 10 times that size and a lot more of a frenzy.
I have to believe that most of this is just created drama for TV and they are not really that stupid. if they were, they would not be in business and as far as only a few people present at the auction, I am sure that was just staged and not the real auction time as many bidders likeloy would not want to be on TV. I am sure in reality, there are many bidders there.
I am the Executive Producer of FLIP MEN for Spike and stumbled across the site and your blogs. Appreciate the comments and discussions about the show. I would like to tell all of you that everything you're seeing on the show is REAL. The guys really do buy the homes at auction. The auctions are real. Sometimes they buy homes without the ability to see them before they buy them- they never get the chance to go inside prior and you're seeing it through their eyes as it happens.
They know the neighborhoods well and make decisions as best they could based on the information they have on paper and based on what the know of the area.
I think you'll see some incredible stuff if you guys continue to watch- this week's upcoming episode is one of my favorites.
Happy to respond to any questions that anyone has or better yet, I could ask Doug or Mike to as well.
I always try to reach out to the audience on all of our shows and it's sites like this that I love to find.
We do not dispute that they do buy at auction or that the auctions are not real. What we do dispute is that the auction with only a few bidders there was staged and not the actual live and real auction, it was likely just replicated to show how and where the bids take place. We also dispute that these guys are the actual guys at the auction doing the bidding. As a trustee buyer in the past and knowing many others who do it today, they all have teams and one of those team members is a paid emplyee on the cell phone making the bids per the instructions of the owner. The other thing you mentioned about "never getting to see the inside" would likely be inaccurate. Sometimes, properties are vacant and the team members responsible for doing the drivebys and occupancy checks can and do get inside, not always or even often, but it does happen. I personally have climbed through a second story open window to get inside to unlock the front door. I have personally knowcked on an occupied door, encountered the tenant and was shown the inside of the home so it does happen.
Dave,
Perhaps we should speak sometime, you just may be the man who can bring my flip show to life.
Nope- the guys go to the auctions themselves. No team involved. And they don't go into the homes first.
Of course they don't go in first. That would ruin the show. But as Will points out, not going in an unsecured vacant property before a sale isn't "reality" for 90%+ of foreclosure investors either. The meth house had an open second story window. But it's better to kick the door in because that's what the TV audience wants. It's a TV show, after all.
Wait... the Executive Producer of the show claims that everything on the show is real and actually happens?
I for one am shocked.
Dave-
I'm not sure why you picked the guys you did, but I'm sure you had your reasons. I can tell you 100% that I wouldn't want you to film ANYTHING that me or my company does because that would invite more (new) competition, and generally the competition bids quite stupidly because they have overvalued the subject property. That makes my job harder in the short run, and has no real effect in the long run. So... shows like these, that show you how to improperly buy at auction and encourage a loose cannon approach are ultimately of little consequence, but an annoyance nonetheless. Of course, if you waited to air the show until buying at auction is no longer a viable strategy, or if you documented that it was actually incredibly difficult and takes a lot of man hours to make sure you buy the RIGHT property... I'd mind a lot less.
I think anyone who feels that they can jump right in and do what you guys do without any experience or expertise is asking for huge problems and potentially a financial disaster- which is why our guys don't have that concern.
Whether we're making a TV show or not, I've learned that you guys will always have people come to the auctions thinking that they can make a quick fortune only to find that they're in big trouble. From what I can tell, those people are only problems once- because after they get burned, they're not coming back again.
More importantly for our show, we're trying to demonstrate that what you guys do takes a lot of knowledge and a lot of skill- it also takes guts. On FLIP MEN, Doug and Mike are using their own money to buy and rehab these homes. It's a gutsy business and we want to entertain but also educate the audience.
Finally, to address the previous blog from Chis, I would ask- is is legal to actually ENTER an unsecured property before you own it?
That depends. Did you kick the door in to gain access? Then no, it is not legal, you have vandalized a property you do not own.
Did you, as part of your investigation, notice an open/unlocked door or window to a home that appeared to be abadoned and verify the occupancy status? I don't see how you could get arrested for it. Is it illegal or not, I am not sure, I am not an attorney, however, I would not be too worried one way or the other. Besides, who would press charges? The owner has abadoned the property and is nowhere to be found (and likely stole and vandalized their own home) I doubt they would be in any position to contest your entry, illegal or not.