Important lesson learned cheap, passing it on

Important lesson learned cheap, passing it on

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

This year, I had an impressive first in my landlording career. I've already had to change out two legacy bathroom sink drain assembles in two rentals in two months. Anyone who has had to do work on bathroom vanity drain systems knows what it's like, you're hunched under a bathroom sink in extremely tight quarters. Once you get some of the always slightly caustic drain trap fluid on your fingers, your fingers soften up and the skin abrades easily on them. I was impressed by the stifled inventiveness of my own swearing today. The tenant doesn't like using the central air conditioning, which I suppose is great for me (when I'm not there).

The first drain I took out this year was made of some sort of cheap base metal and cracked under normal use. The second was practically new but was a plastic and chromed-plastic affair with a chrome-plated drainpipe. What happened was that my tenant started dying her hair in the bathroom sink, and the dye managed to clog up the drainpipe before the trap, right under the sink stopper. This is the second time I've seen the same sort of clog in hair-dye situations.

Now I hope no DIY handyman landlord working in C/D properties is so slow on the uptake as to tell women of a certain age that dying their own hair in the bathroom sink that they rent from you is forbidden in your rentals. If you are, well, thanks for the business. If we accept that hair-dying in the sink is as inevitable as death and taxes, then the kind of drainpipe+dye goop+stopper hair clog I'm describing is also inevitable (unless we go with popup drains without traditional lever-operated stopper systems, but no, that's not going to work for me).

So when I took this drain apart to clean it out, the first thing that happened was that the chromed plastic cap on the stopper port in the back of the drain cracked when I reassembled the drain. I took it apart again and a large chip had broken off the threads. I rigged that with some silicone caulk, and then put the trap together again. Then I saw the drainpipe would not stop leaking at the trap, so I replaced the polypropylene trap assembly and put in a new washer in place on the polypropylene trap. That also didn't work. So I took that apart again and rigged it with some more silicone caulk, got that leak stopped. OK! But then I saw that the whole drain had started to leak from the main sink connection. That was the last straw. I was done with temporary rigging for the day.

With much ado and swearing, I removed the whole cheap plastic assembly, tossed it in the trash, and replaced with a full stainless-on-brass assembly (this is usually sold as a "heavy-duty" 1 1/4 drain assembly in the big box stores but more accurately as "all-brass construction" in my local plumbing supply store).

The lesson is learned, and I'm trying to pass it on here. Both vanities in these low-cost rentals that I worked on in these months were of full plywood construction with a sheet of flat roofing rubber glued into the bottom, the right kind of vanity to take the abuse vanities get in my rentals. I got off cheap. You can to. From now on, I'm done with renting apartments that don't have all-brass ("all-metal" is NOT ALWAYS all-brass) vanity drains in them. No more dying by inches playing Whac-A-Mole with a drain's problem everything time I have to go over there and service it.

If you buy these all-brass drains in big box stores, be aware that every community has types that are going to try to cannibalize small parts from these drain assemblies and walk off with them without paying for them. Always check the contents of the box the assembly is sold in and make sure that what's supposed to be in the box is actually in the box.

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Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
7y

When it comes to plumbing, NEVER use the cheap plastic stuff. You are just asking for trouble (leaks and floods).

And FYI, in my rentals I NEVER install sprayers in the kitchen sinks. They are guaranteed to leak, and you won't hear a peep out of the tenant until the unit floods out. Just cap off the hole in the sink and eliminate any Sprayers. 

Just my two cents...

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs That did not include the drain line to the street. i had the one done on my house for $1200 but it was only about 10 feet. (Tiny old postage stamp lots)

  • Joseph ODonovanPro Member
    Property Manager · Ridley, PA · Member since 2017 · 427 posts · 449 votes
    7y

    @Jim K. Wow. White collar elitism? I simply suggested that I prefer to pay an expert to do a job that I would certainly screw up. I have the utmost respect for tradesmen as I was born and raised in a blue collar family. And for what's it's worth, my day job is a process server. I drive around all day in the best and worst of neighborhoods serving legal documents. A far cry from White Collar work. Btw, where I come from, getting your hands dirty is not an insult. Only a white collar elitist would think that.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jill F.:

    @Jay Hinrichs That did not include the drain line to the street. i had the one done on my house for $1200 but it was only about 10 feet. (Tiny old postage stamp lots)

    in parts of the bay area its mandatory to change the drain line when houses are sold if they are a certain age and still clay pipe.. my brother in law does a ton of them.. realtors are his source.. many times they just pipe burst.. and are done in a few hours for 6 to 8k. 

    when I was doing my rental thing in the deep south we could get a new PVC from house to street 50 ft or so for 1500 or so.. if we did it during rehab and not under stress..  you have one go wonky on your while tenant is in.. contractors would double or triple the price. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Joseph ODonovan:

    @Jim K. My advice would be to find yourself a good plumber who can be your "go to guy" for your rentals. Let the plumber get his hands dirty. My philosophy is to pay people to do what they do best and I'll stick to doing what I do best.

    There's this heavy touch of white-collar elitism in what you've written that stick in my craw like you probably wouldn't believe. I've done pretty well so far for myself going to the devil in my own way. But I will pass this on to my "good plumber" when I see him again. My plumber, who is also one of my mentors, runs a combined HVAC/plumbing outfit and can buy and sell me a dozen times over. I am deeply honored that he calls me his friend and lets me shake his dirty hand.

    right now at least on the west coast  top end sub trades are making HUGE money..  and are some of the wealthiest individuals in the market place.. those that have the smarts to run a business and run 50 to 500 employees.. my dry wall contractor has over 600 emplyees and a company JET..  so here's to slinging mud and tape..  we have to keep in mind that some people enjoy do it yourself projects.. Myself I am not very handy at those sorts of things..  WE are so funny.. one of my office staff says there is a problem with a light in our coffee room.. I said change the bulb  he does and says it must be electrical.. so I have my electrician come over.. ( free since he works on all our new construction) he comes back and says problem solved it requires 3 bulbs I replaced them and there you go..  So how many real estate transaction coordinators does it take to replace a light bulb ??  talk about a tad embarrassed.. so now I know I have to double check.  On the flip side though this same person does all my IT I have not had to have a computer person since he came in.. that saves me lots of money..   Bottom line we all have skills ..  But I think our young people coming up are really missing the boat on the trades.

    a good electrician / plumber not even owning your own company out our way will make 100 to 200k a year.. put about 5 years in and there you go..  take a trade and blow it up into a business and your a multi millionaire.  and who needs real estate at that point.

  • Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 23 votes
    7y

    @Jim K.

    That’s great info! Thanks for sharing.

    Total newb question. If a drain is clogged as the result of something the tenant obviously did, who is responsible for paying to fix it?

    Not knowing any better, I’d think making tenants more responsible would encourage them to think before putting things down a drain they shouldn’t.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mark Rocka:

    @Jim K.

    That’s great info! Thanks for sharing.

    Total newb question. If a drain is clogged as the result of something the tenant obviously did, who is responsible for paying to fix it?

    Not knowing any better, I’d think making tenants more responsible would encourage them to think before putting things down a drain they shouldn’t.

    Come on, man. Woman dye their gray hair in sinks. You charge them to clear out a plug because your drain's too fragile to handle it, as mine was, that's your problem, not theirs. So, no charge for the new drain, no charge for my precious time, no special gotcha maintenance fee. You pass on enough maintenance costs like this to your tenants in the interest of saving your time and money, you'll be posting about how your mean and cruel tenants unloaded fifty pounds of concrete down your stack just before they disappeared in the middle of the night and you're now stuck with a 10 grand bill to run a new line in, how could they possibly be so cruel and mean to you?

  • Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 23 votes
    7y

    @Jim K.

    I understand replacing something that needed to be replaced. I guess my question doesn’t really apply to your situation. I’ve just heard horror stories about renters’ kids flushing toys down the toilet or some nonsense like that.

    It just seems to me there has to be a line drawn somewhere that says “This repair is clearly up to the landlord or the renter.” I just don’t know what that line is.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joseph ODonovan:

    @Jim K. Wow. White collar elitism? I simply suggested that I prefer to pay an expert to do a job that I would certainly screw up. I have the utmost respect for tradesmen as I was born and raised in a blue collar family. And for what's it's worth, my day job is a process server. I drive around all day in the best and worst of neighborhoods serving legal documents. A far cry from White Collar work. Btw, where I come from, getting your hands dirty is not an insult. Only a white collar elitist would think that.

    So you throw orders-to-pay at deadbeat dads all day and that's what you do BEST? Have you considered a career change into DIY landlording?

    I'm sorry, Joseph, I'm just sick and tired of 20-year-old programmers who are busy figuring out the next greatest way to post cat pics online telling me their time as investors is too valuable to do basic home maintenance for their tenants. A mom and pop outfit like mine with a generalist like me working in it can make a lot of money out of nothing quickly in the low-income housing we buy, renovate, and run.

    You cannot hope to have the same kind of steady tenant base, the same quality landlord/tenant relationship, doing it the hands-off way. I need to keep long-term tenants paying rent steadily in the neighborhoods I operate in. Part of that, I am convinced, is that they need to know their landlord is not too good to sweat and stink under their sink when they're in trouble. That's part of the riddle of making money with long-term tenants in low-income housing. It's not sustainable past a certain point, and when I get there my business model will change, but by then I'm sure I'll have hit my modest financial goals anyway. It turns out a good handyman ends up being worth his weight in gold when he works on his own properties.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mark Rocka:

    @Jim K.

    I understand replacing something that needed to be replaced. I guess my question doesn’t really apply to your situation. I’ve just heard horror stories about renters’ kids flushing toys down the toilet or some nonsense like that.

    It just seems to me there has to be a line drawn somewhere that says “This repair is clearly up to the landlord or the renter.” I just don’t know what that line is.

    They pay the rent, I keep the drains running. I'll warn them if it's an egregious issue like multiple calls for toys in the toilet or heavy towels clogging the main line. That's why they continue to live in sub $50K places paying my rent, knowing I have their back against unexpected expenses they're nowhere near financially competent enough to deal with. If there's an attitude problem about doing what I tell them and I have to show up repeatedly for silly reasons, I don't renew their lease and I find better long-term tenants. But you can attenuate that pattern of behavior in your rentals with good vetting.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Mark Rocka:

    @Jim K.

    I understand replacing something that needed to be replaced. I guess my question doesn’t really apply to your situation. I’ve just heard horror stories about renters’ kids flushing toys down the toilet or some nonsense like that.

    It just seems to me there has to be a line drawn somewhere that says “This repair is clearly up to the landlord or the renter.” I just don’t know what that line is.

    They pay the rent, I keep the drains running. I'll warn them if it's an egregious issue like multiple calls for toys in the toilet or heavy towels clogging the main line. That's why they continue to live in sub $50K places paying my rent, knowing I have their back against unexpected expenses they're nowhere near financially competent enough to deal with. If there's an attitude problem about doing what I tell them and I have to show up repeatedly for silly reasons, I don't renew their lease and I find better long-term tenants. But you can attenuate that pattern of behavior in your rentals with good vetting.

    To further your point Jim this is where I see newbie landlords who have absolutely no clue how most tenants at least those that can only afford 600 to 800 dollar rents live their lives and how they think.

    landlord wants to charge for any little thing that gets busted by the kids.. tenants have no money  .. so then they start to get upset and look for a new place.. maybe break the lease all together..  and now landlord who got in snit over a 75 dollar item because well you know 75 off of the 200 cash flow criteria they need.. just wont do it for their numbers..  Tenant leaves and of course never seen one broom clean. now you have a vacancy you have a turn over which usually is 1k to much more if they gave you some parting gifts.. so 75 bucks even though landlord is correct just cost them minimum of 2k  if no real damage.. all over 75 dollars and NOT UNDERSTANDING your client/Tenant 

    I have seen this act so many times with clients of mine.. landlording simply is not for everyone.. and I feel that a good reason that many landlords fail is its their own darn fault.. IE they try to buy stuff like you own.. with no clue as to how hands on it is.. but they fall in love with their computer model or spread sheet..  LOL..  or like I said they don't understand how these folks in the US live.. Or their mind set or mentality..  

    I have seen many a mom and pop landlord do very very well in smaller less intense pressure areas.   You be firm but your there when needed and if you cant do the work you over see the work.. Tenants expect it.

  • Joseph ODonovanPro Member
    Property Manager · Ridley, PA · Member since 2017 · 427 posts · 449 votes
    7y

    @Jim K. So you initially insinuated I was a white collar elitist. You then make a condescending comment about my career and suggest I make a career change. Where I come from, we have names for guys like you. But I'll take the high road and abide by the BP rules and keep that comment to myself. As for what I do best, you have no idea. I do know, as a landlord, there are many many ways to operate your business. You prefer the DIY approach which is fine. I prefer quite the opposite. Just like BP, some people use it to learn, network and share ideas, like I do. And then there are trolls like you, who prefer to use BP as a forum to bully and insult others. If that makes you feel good, go for it. Happy trolling.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Jim K.,

    Can someone perhaps explain how hair dye is shed through blow drying? Should it not have been well rinsed by then? ... and if not, is it then not spattered all over the bathroom? (Indelible, I should think.)

    Sorry ... having trouble getting the picture in my mind.

    It may be some other substance ...

  • Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Jim K.

    Good tips.

    Thanks

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @David Dachtera:

    @Jim K.,

    Can someone perhaps explain how hair dye is shed through blow drying? Should it not have been well rinsed by then? ... and if not, is it then not spattered all over the bathroom? (Indelible, I should think.)

    Sorry ... having trouble getting the picture in my mind.

    It may be some other substance ...

    Hi David. Hair dye is sold in a cream that you have to comb into your hair, lots of it + hair ends up in the sink, lady washes it down with the bare minimum of water, it sticks to the bottom of the lever-operated stopper mechanisms. Bill Kramer a while back in this thread also talked about having a straight six-inch drop from the bottom of the sink to help with that, I have maybe a five inch drop to the trap in that sink, note I cleverly never acknowledged that yeah, that's part of the problem, too. The goop floats on top of the trap water,which the bottom of the stopper mechanism is just above, dries and also sticks the hair to the bottom of the stopper, inside the drop. Trap water evaporates, level goes down, goop + hair cures a bit, the clog starts building. Do it two or three more times and you develop a clog in the drop.

    Aren't you glad you know more about it now? Thanks, Dave.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joseph ODonovan:

    @Jim K. So you initially insinuated I was a white collar elitist. You then make a condescending comment about my career and suggest I make a career change. Where I come from, we have names for guys like you. But I'll take the high road and abide by the BP rules and keep that comment to myself. As for what I do best, you have no idea. I do know, as a landlord, there are many many ways to operate your business. You prefer the DIY approach which is fine. I prefer quite the opposite. Just like BP, some people use it to learn, network and share ideas, like I do. And then there are trolls like you, who prefer to use BP as a forum to bully and insult others. If that makes you feel good, go for it. Happy trolling.

    I apologize. I'M SORRY. Mea culpa. MEA MAXIMA CULPA. And I'm not even Catholic.

    Nothing makes me feel good. I am misery personified, a stain upon the good earth, a leprosy on humanity. Hell follows me where'er I go. I am sure I deserve every harsh name you can imagine for me and then some.

    But I did laugh a bit (and please find room in your heart to forgive me for it) when I thought about the incongruity of a process server advising me to let someone else get their hands dirty. You've got to admit, Joseph, that is just objectively funny.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Mark Rocka:

    @Jim K.

    I understand replacing something that needed to be replaced. I guess my question doesn’t really apply to your situation. I’ve just heard horror stories about renters’ kids flushing toys down the toilet or some nonsense like that.

    It just seems to me there has to be a line drawn somewhere that says “This repair is clearly up to the landlord or the renter.” I just don’t know what that line is.

    They pay the rent, I keep the drains running. I'll warn them if it's an egregious issue like multiple calls for toys in the toilet or heavy towels clogging the main line. That's why they continue to live in sub $50K places paying my rent, knowing I have their back against unexpected expenses they're nowhere near financially competent enough to deal with. If there's an attitude problem about doing what I tell them and I have to show up repeatedly for silly reasons, I don't renew their lease and I find better long-term tenants. But you can attenuate that pattern of behavior in your rentals with good vetting.

    To further your point Jim this is where I see newbie landlords who have absolutely no clue how most tenants at least those that can only afford 600 to 800 dollar rents live their lives and how they think.

    landlord wants to charge for any little thing that gets busted by the kids.. tenants have no money  .. so then they start to get upset and look for a new place.. maybe break the lease all together..  and now landlord who got in snit over a 75 dollar item because well you know 75 off of the 200 cash flow criteria they need.. just wont do it for their numbers..  Tenant leaves and of course never seen one broom clean. now you have a vacancy you have a turn over which usually is 1k to much more if they gave you some parting gifts.. so 75 bucks even though landlord is correct just cost them minimum of 2k  if no real damage.. all over 75 dollars and NOT UNDERSTANDING your client/Tenant 

    I have seen this act so many times with clients of mine.. landlording simply is not for everyone.. and I feel that a good reason that many landlords fail is its their own darn fault.. IE they try to buy stuff like you own.. with no clue as to how hands on it is.. but they fall in love with their computer model or spread sheet..  LOL..  or like I said they don't understand how these folks in the US live.. Or their mind set or mentality..  

    I have seen many a mom and pop landlord do very very well in smaller less intense pressure areas.   You be firm but your there when needed and if you cant do the work you over see the work.. Tenants expect it.

    Thank you, Jay. At this point, I look at these guys chasing $150/door in the hood, talking about full rehabs and forced appreciation, and it bothers me because I grew up just like this, with parents who had much the same problems. You stick a tenant in housing like this with a $300 sudden bill to make the spreadsheet work for the month (and of course because you want to own houses in the hood and yet be too good to go down there when there's a problem), the tenant has no savings and is worried about making their minimum credit card payment for the month. Wonder of wonders, they're going to take it personal.

    The tenants in the property under discussion pay me $650 a month for a property that I bought for $25K cash. They're not stupid, they understand their rent is going to pay off my investment in just a few years. They understand the reason they don't own that house is that they've never seen $25K together all in one place, and they're never going to unless they win the lottery. But they can't help feeling that for paying off my house so quickly, they deserve to be taken care of.

    You're not going to beat human nature with a spreadsheet in this kind of C/D'class housing. It will simply never happen. If you do manage to successfully charge them for this repair, they're going to go rig whatever breaks next time, and next time, and next next time, until they've destroyed your place completely, and then they're gone as soon as their cousin has some space for them in a real slum hellhole.

    You've gotta be on top of it, and you've got to be seen to be on top of it, and they can never be allowed to form the impression that you're Mr. Moneybags. Otherwise you can kiss your C/D-class millions goodbye.

    It's not that complicated. But somehow the gurus and the experts have us all chasing the magic spreadsheet to hack the ghetto from a McMansion six states over.

  • Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jim K. - Do your rentals have tubs? I dye my hair blonde while taking an aromatherapy bath and as far as I know have never clogged a drain. Hair dye is on for 30-50 minute before rinsing and obviously a fair amount of hair shakes loose jointly with the thick goop. Maybe suggest it. I don’t know if it’ll damage your shower pan liners or acrylic/fiberglass tubs. It doesn’t do anything to enamel/cast iron as far as I know. Thanks for being such an attentive hands on landlord. I know that I’ve always appreciated my landlords who have responded promptly to repair requests.

  • Contractor · Evansville, IN · Member since 2019 · 142 posts · 208 votes
    7y

    In lower income neighborhoods you don't charge for service calls, or they will stop calling them in altogether. Then when they move out, you have a toilet and bath tub full of sh.. and pee and other issues.

    I would say in c class or above, give them a freebie drain snake (life happens). Anything else that's obvious tenant damage make them pay, it will rarely happen anyways in nicer rentals with better tenants.

    Low income housing comes with high maintenance costs. Landlording 101

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Natalie Schanne:

    @Jim K. - Do your rentals have tubs? I dye my hair blonde while taking an aromatherapy bath and as far as I know have never clogged a drain. Hair dye is on for 30-50 minute before rinsing and obviously a fair amount of hair shakes loose jointly with the thick goop. Maybe suggest it. I don’t know if it’ll damage your shower pan liners or acrylic/fiberglass tubs. It doesn’t do anything to enamel/cast iron as far as I know. Thanks for being such an attentive hands on landlord. I know that I’ve always appreciated my landlords who have responded promptly to repair requests.

    Hi Natalie. You're exactly right. That's what they end up doing and that one of the many reasons why the goal is to have old cast iron or new enameled steel bathtubs in all my rentals. And I'm always, always ready to preeningly reacknowledge what a helluva landlord I am.

  • Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    7y

    Never use the cheapest stuff, unless you want to do the job again sooner rather than later.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @David Dachtera:

    @Jim K.,

    Can someone perhaps explain how hair dye is shed through blow drying? Should it not have been well rinsed by then? ... and if not, is it then not spattered all over the bathroom? (Indelible, I should think.)

    Sorry ... having trouble getting the picture in my mind.

    It may be some other substance ...

    Hi David. Hair dye is sold in a cream that you have to comb into your hair, lots of it + hair ends up in the sink, lady washes it down with the bare minimum of water, it sticks to the bottom of the lever-operated stopper mechanisms. Bill Kramer a while back in this thread also talked about having a straight six-inch drop from the bottom of the sink to help with that, I have maybe a five inch drop to the trap in that sink, note I cleverly never acknowledged that yeah, that's part of the problem, too. The goop floats on top of the trap water,which the bottom of the stopper mechanism is just above, dries and also sticks the hair to the bottom of the stopper, inside the drop. Trap water evaporates, level goes down, goop + hair cures a bit, the clog starts building. Do it two or three more times and you develop a clog in the drop.

    Aren't you glad you know more about it now? Thanks, Dave.

    O.k. I'd only heard about home hair dye that women use in the shower.

    Is that hair dye or shoe polish?

  • Investor · Colonial Heights, VA · Member since 2014 · 115 posts · 68 votes
    7y

    This is a great thread. Kind of sums up how I do things. When I get a call I get over there as quick as I can and handle it myself. I actually would rather do this kind stuff than go to the day job. I have minimal vacancy and some really good tenants.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @David Dachtera:

    @Jim K.,

    Can someone perhaps explain how hair dye is shed through blow drying? Should it not have been well rinsed by then? ... and if not, is it then not spattered all over the bathroom? (Indelible, I should think.)

    Sorry ... having trouble getting the picture in my mind.

    It may be some other substance ...

    Hi David. Hair dye is sold in a cream that you have to comb into your hair, lots of it + hair ends up in the sink, lady washes it down with the bare minimum of water, it sticks to the bottom of the lever-operated stopper mechanisms. Bill Kramer a while back in this thread also talked about having a straight six-inch drop from the bottom of the sink to help with that, I have maybe a five inch drop to the trap in that sink, note I cleverly never acknowledged that yeah, that's part of the problem, too. The goop floats on top of the trap water,which the bottom of the stopper mechanism is just above, dries and also sticks the hair to the bottom of the stopper, inside the drop. Trap water evaporates, level goes down, goop + hair cures a bit, the clog starts building. Do it two or three more times and you develop a clog in the drop.

    Aren't you glad you know more about it now? Thanks, Dave.

    O.k. I'd only heard about home hair dye that women use in the shower.

    Is that hair dye or shoe polish?

     Maybe she's born with it, maybe it's Shinola.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Pat L.:

    here's a gem I found behind a wall after the 65 yr old 'maintenance guy' they had for 22 years became familiar with Pex. We rehabbed the bathroom & eliminated ALL the leaks. The pic is after I cut the Pex to remove the brass fitting. BUT the 2x4 was a shim he had used. But the upper & lower male brass fittings covered in caulk did all leak??? Must have been cheap caulk!

     I do have to admit, Pat...this is epic. The down outlet to the tub spout on these is always supposed to be copper, too, in order not to restrict the water flow. I've also seen two of these so far that extend up the wall to the shower drop ear with no supports, you chop the valve out and the whole assembly falls out of the wall.

    I still always do copper on any behind-the-wall shower assemblies if I have a choice. I can't get it in me to fully trust PEX connections.

  • Rental Property Investor · Farmington, UT · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 148 votes
    7y

    @Jim K. Duly noted. Man I hate spending time under sinks but had never splurged on the ‘heavy-duty.’ Obvious now that I think about it!

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