What construction materials are you using for buy & hold rentals?
Franklin, MA · Member since 2018 · 47 posts · 14 votes
What construction materials are you using for buy & hold rentals?
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6yIt really depends on tht type of property! In most cities the rental market will follow a standard distribution and look like a bell curve - in Milwaukee the median is at about $1000-1200. Our average rent is about $1500 for a single family. We have a significant segment up to $2000 and then there is the luxury and ultra luxury segment - where I live in Mequon you can rent a townhouse for $4,400...
Keep in mind that your attitude to your property will be reflected by the tenant ("whatever is cheap, it's just a rental" mindset). And the property will define the tenant. We actually put effort into the interior design and - within reason - open up the floor plan, update kitchens and bathrooms and spend money on landscaping.
The goal is always a combination of looks, durability and cost effectiveness. Landscaping is a good example - we eliminate flower beds, anything that needs regual maintenance, often remove some of the trees (think leaves), favor evergreens over seasonal plants, boxwoods and globular arbs are our favorite for along the front and mulch beds get replaced by stone. One of the best investments is a bag of weed and feed for a crappy front lawn! It needs to look good and require only lawn mowing.
Cheap materials will cost you twice. Buying low end LVP is just as bad of an idea as buying cheap roof shingles. Everything we do, we want to do only once. A cheap roof will last only 15 to 20 years. A quality roof will last 30 years. The labor is the same, the material is maybe 20% more. One of my friends installs steel roofs on his properties in northern Wisconsin - lasts forever and eliminates issues with ice daming.
Quality LVP (from a flooring store) a buck or two more looks and most importantly sounds better when you walk on it. It gives a sense of quality, which plays into the overall feel. I can't tell you that it lasts longer (it might), but in many cases it will save you time on labor, because it installs faster.
One of my first properties ten years ago my contractor installed cheap shut off valves; I remember he pointed out the savings, becaue we had a total of 6 and the steel valves were like $10 extra each over the plastic. I saved you some money he said! 4 years later the original tenant moved out, reported an issue with the dishwasher. So I go there and turn the water off under the sink - and break the cheap plastic valve with my left hand. Water starts gushing out, I run downstairs to turn off the main: the handle is broken and has sharp edges and it wont move. Takes me a few minutes to get my tool bag from the car.. Meanwhile the all new kitchen turned into a giant puddle. The water made it under the floor and caused the subfloor to swell and buckle - ultimatley we had a several thousand dollar repair. Thanks to the cheap plastic shut off valves from Menards.
Needless to say that going forward our plumbing supplies are always top quality from a plumbing supply house - brass and steel valves, braided steel lines for the fridge instead of plastic, Pex-A instead of B or C..
We don't always choose the most expensive materials - here is where we save:
- we typically install laminate counter tops and not stone
- we use Sterling shower tub combos and have elminated almost all ceramic tile for kitchens and baths
- we buy stained cabinets instead of painted; they are 30% cheaper and are wear much better. We always install knobs and pull bars to minimize grime and wear on the doors.
- we typically use the same paint "White Clay" in eggshell from Behr, not available anymore but Sherwin Williams custom mixes it for us. It has a fresher look than the customary "Antique White" which looks like 10 years of chain smoking to me. Ceilings always flat white. Bathrooms in semi gloss with a mold inhibitor additive. And of course always green board in bathrooms and basements.
21 Replies
- Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
I use whatever is on the shelf at Lowe's. No matter what you choose, it will be in improvement over gutted. Tenants don't expect high end finishes, unless they are paying high end rent.
- Franklin, MA · Member since 2018 · 47 posts · 14 votes6y
@Anthony Dooley thanks for the reply Anthony. Good point.
- Rental Property Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2018 · 110 posts · 113 votes6y
Hi Scott,
For me:
Windows and doors- Windows, if they are c/o and up to code but you have shattered glass or something similar find someone who will just repair the glass. This is going to save you a lot of money. If not contact wholesalers, they always have better prices and if you're doing two properties you'll save yourself a good amount of money. Doors: If the wood is not rotten or in really terrible shape, most of the time they just need a coat of pain and new door knobs. If you do have to buy some, home depot has doors starting at $30.00.
Kitchen Cabinets - If they are in food shape, just refinish them and add door handles. Kitchen cabinets are super expensive and I don't trust online ordering systems in which you input measurements and then you have to install.
Appliances- facebook market place ! Oh my goodness, there's a ton of wholesalers now and you can literally get a really nice double door with water dispenser fridge +stove+mircrowave+dishwasher stainless steel+ wahser and dryer in under 2k. I have done it.
Flooring- If they're rental i would just put vynil planks all over the house. They're water resistant, can be installed on top of tile and you can find some cheap options for under $1.40 sqft. Carpet= carpet installs after every turn over. Tile is expensive to install. Laminate is not water resistant.
Hope this helps & Good Luck!
- Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
I use standard materials for all work-force rentals, even if they are in different locations. Mainly paint, flooring, types of door handles, types of tiles, etc...
For ease, most of my materials come directly from Home Depot, except for paint. And kitchen cabinets.
- Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 367 votes6y
Well....it depends on the area. You for sure dont want to use cheap materials if the area is B and above. The retail stuff such as home depot and menards is ok for the C and D class areas. You should be looking to rehab your projects based on the past year or two at the most of homes that were sold. Within a half mile to mile radius. That way the potential tenants will see your property as being similar. You can accessorize the place to give it some soul. In terms of good stuff at a good place you should for sure google and look around your local area first. Local areas especially places that have large supplies of flooring, paint, etc are willing to work with you.....usually.
- Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 0 votes6y
@Brian Ploszay where do you buy paint?
- Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Justin Touchstone Sherwyn Williams. I also like Benjamin Moore.
- New Bern, NC · Member since 2017 · 246 posts · 173 votes6y
@Angelica M Garzon
I agree whole heartedly. We just ran vinyl plank flooring that we bought from a discount store in our most recent STR throughout the entire home except bathrooms (only because they already had nice tile.) It looks seemless, modern, and beautiful for cheap. And it looks great with our used stainless steel appliances we bought off Facebook marketplace!
- 6yCalvin OzanickBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Janesville, WI · Member since 2017 · 707 posts · 297 votes
I do not suggest going cheap on materials because this will lead to you needing to repair or replace it much more often. However, high end materials also make it not worth your while. I think for things like flooring, try to carpet as much as possible. We use sherwin-williams flooring here in Wisconsin and they make it so easy. You can install low cost apartment quality carpet and get a linoleum or vinyl plank for the kitchen and bathroom. Paint is usually pretty easy, I recommend using the same color for all of your units. This way, if you ever need to touch up any, you do not have to search for the color or style.
Wisconsin Property Managers4.7412 Reviews - Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes6y
It really depends on tht type of property! In most cities the rental market will follow a standard distribution and look like a bell curve - in Milwaukee the median is at about $1000-1200. Our average rent is about $1500 for a single family. We have a significant segment up to $2000 and then there is the luxury and ultra luxury segment - where I live in Mequon you can rent a townhouse for $4,400...
Keep in mind that your attitude to your property will be reflected by the tenant ("whatever is cheap, it's just a rental" mindset). And the property will define the tenant. We actually put effort into the interior design and - within reason - open up the floor plan, update kitchens and bathrooms and spend money on landscaping.
The goal is always a combination of looks, durability and cost effectiveness. Landscaping is a good example - we eliminate flower beds, anything that needs regual maintenance, often remove some of the trees (think leaves), favor evergreens over seasonal plants, boxwoods and globular arbs are our favorite for along the front and mulch beds get replaced by stone. One of the best investments is a bag of weed and feed for a crappy front lawn! It needs to look good and require only lawn mowing.
Cheap materials will cost you twice. Buying low end LVP is just as bad of an idea as buying cheap roof shingles. Everything we do, we want to do only once. A cheap roof will last only 15 to 20 years. A quality roof will last 30 years. The labor is the same, the material is maybe 20% more. One of my friends installs steel roofs on his properties in northern Wisconsin - lasts forever and eliminates issues with ice daming.
Quality LVP (from a flooring store) a buck or two more looks and most importantly sounds better when you walk on it. It gives a sense of quality, which plays into the overall feel. I can't tell you that it lasts longer (it might), but in many cases it will save you time on labor, because it installs faster.
One of my first properties ten years ago my contractor installed cheap shut off valves; I remember he pointed out the savings, becaue we had a total of 6 and the steel valves were like $10 extra each over the plastic. I saved you some money he said! 4 years later the original tenant moved out, reported an issue with the dishwasher. So I go there and turn the water off under the sink - and break the cheap plastic valve with my left hand. Water starts gushing out, I run downstairs to turn off the main: the handle is broken and has sharp edges and it wont move. Takes me a few minutes to get my tool bag from the car.. Meanwhile the all new kitchen turned into a giant puddle. The water made it under the floor and caused the subfloor to swell and buckle - ultimatley we had a several thousand dollar repair. Thanks to the cheap plastic shut off valves from Menards.
Needless to say that going forward our plumbing supplies are always top quality from a plumbing supply house - brass and steel valves, braided steel lines for the fridge instead of plastic, Pex-A instead of B or C..
We don't always choose the most expensive materials - here is where we save:
- we typically install laminate counter tops and not stone
- we use Sterling shower tub combos and have elminated almost all ceramic tile for kitchens and baths
- we buy stained cabinets instead of painted; they are 30% cheaper and are wear much better. We always install knobs and pull bars to minimize grime and wear on the doors.
- we typically use the same paint "White Clay" in eggshell from Behr, not available anymore but Sherwin Williams custom mixes it for us. It has a fresher look than the customary "Antique White" which looks like 10 years of chain smoking to me. Ceilings always flat white. Bathrooms in semi gloss with a mold inhibitor additive. And of course always green board in bathrooms and basements.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
1. Windows & doors - nothing fancy. Standard windows, standard doors. I prefer non-paned look windows as they look cleaner and there's less to deal with if you have to repair a window, but it depends on the house.
2. Kitchen cabinets - I've used several different but my favorite is the unfinished cabinets at Lowe's because the doors and face frames are solid oak (except for the raised panel which is veneer plywood). The rest of the cabinet is a cheap box, but so is everything else off the shelf. How I have them finished depends on the house; my preference is polyurethane without stain, which is simple to touch up and match up later if need arises, but again depends on the house - can have them sprayed or stained. I apply poly to the "feet" of the boxes and any surface which may see water.
3. Appliances - black or white GE, Frigidaire or Whirlpool. No foreign appliances. Parts are easy to come by on domestics, especially ones that have been around forever.
4. Flooring - if I have to add it I prefer the luxury vinyl planks - completely waterproof, good look, hard to destroy. I put a big scratch in the floor at one of my rentals and filled the scratch with a stain pen and I can't find it, and I know where it is. I use some kind of wood pattern with a strong grain to hide scratches & blemishes.
Skyline Properties - Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Windows and doors - Standard home depot brands (Anderson typically)
Kitchen Cabinets - Waypoint
Appliances - Lowes bargain isle
Flooring - Unfinished hardwood (I typically install and finish them myself)
- Property Manager · Madison, WI · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 38 votes6y
Flooring - 8mm vinyl glue down tile plank - $1.5-$2 per square foot per material, and $1.5-2 for labor to install. We use this in everything we do, whether it be a luxury single family home, a new 54 unit multifamily development, or updates to existing units.
Typically, we do 100% of the units on ground level in LVP, and if its an apartment we'll do carpet in the living room area and bedroom area on all floors not on the ground level. When we do the units with carpet we make sure to do the hallways, baths, and kitchens all in LVP and all connected. We try to make sure the carpet from one room does not share carpet with another room, so if one of the rooms ever needs to be updated with new carpet it doesn't have to be a 100% match since they won't share a seam. For the single family homes we just run it throughout upstairs and down, and let the tenants buy rugs if they prefer to have some carpet.
The cost difference between the LVP and thin sheet vinyl is marginal and you'll pay 10 times more for the sheet over time if you have to keep replacing it.
For the other items on your list we use local contracts, Sherwin Williams, Home Depot, and Amazon a lot.
One item you didn't mention was light fixtures and plumbing fixture upgrades. This is often times the first level of upgrade we tackle on older properties, especially if they don't need a lot of TLC, and we find probably 90% of all of the products on Amazon. If you're doing this a lot Amazon has a 5% cash back American Express card that is highly beneficial.
- Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes6y
I buy most of my materials at Menards and Home Depot, and flooring sometimes from Lumber Liquidators, but recently discovered Floor & Decor, so I may check them out.
Windows generally Jeld Wen, reasonable quality, decent price, Great Customer service, and made here in WI
Mastercraft doors, Ideal/Clopy garage doors
Conco Paint, (its Sherwin Williams Packaged for Menards, and cheaper than the Sherwin store can sell you the same paint for) Same colors for every unit, makes touch up easy, never need to find a code.
Castlebrook Shingles
Abtco vinyl siding, in-stock colors with white trim and corners (can always just pick up a piece if one gets cracked.)
Kwikset Locks
Flooring I use LVP, generally a click type
I replace all brick mold on ext doors with Vinyl, I use solid vinyl for exterior window sils, and trims when rotten. we replace ceiling fans with just lights (less to fail, and less to get hurt on)
we use combo Smoke and CO detectors, so there is only one device for each location they are installed instead of 2
kitchen cabinets, whoever has the best sale, and if you want soft close, add it on, dont buy them already on the cabinets, WAY CHEAPER.
we generally swap water heaters to electric with stainless flex hook up lines for easy and cheap replacement down the road.
also we often replace furnace and A/C or add A/C (im licensed so for me its pretty cheap) if the systems are older
- Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
Whatever you buy, I would focus on making sure you can replace it if it gets damaged (and replace it quickly). Things like plumbing items I would make sure they are serviceable without the entire fixture being removed. I would also focus on durability verse beauty. A durable floor is better than a nice looking but easily damaged floor.
- Rental Property Investor · Augusta, GA · Member since 2019 · 129 posts · 112 votes6y
Typically, we actually use better materials in our rentals than we would in a flip. There's no such thing as "bulletproof" but we try to get longer lasting items.
1. Windows and Doors - Go with vinyl, low-e windows. Investors tend to not care about utility costs but residents most definitely do. We even spray foam insulate the attics and walls if we are doing full renovations. We generally just use six panel standard slab interior doors. Although, in our newest renovation, we are using a solid plastic door.
2. Kitchen Cabinets - We use real wood cabinets.
3. Appliances - Here, we do go with rental grade. NEVER used appliances. Standard appliances. If it breaks, it's generally cheaper to replace it than repair. They're not built to last forever, but if parts (fridge handles, etc.) break, we can swap out with some old units.
4. Flooring - Waterproof (key word here) vinyl plank. Unless there are hardwoods to be refinished, we go vinyl plank. In nicer rentals, we may go with tile in the bathrooms and/or kitchens.
In all of our rentals going forward we are also installing granite countertops. Reasoning is for durability. Also, use a quality paint. Don't use a cheap flat paint. You only frustrate the residents and yourself.
- Franklin, MA · Member since 2018 · 47 posts · 14 votes6y
Thanks @Phillip Vera. In regard to the flooring, my contractor is recommending that I go with tile in the kitchen for my long term rental. What are your thoughts on this? I know it will be a bit more expensive then the vinyl but is it worth it? What type of tile are you typically using for your kitchens?
- Rental Property Investor · Augusta, GA · Member since 2019 · 129 posts · 112 votes6y
@Scott Savard I'll do tile on a slab, but otherwise I'm going with the waterproof floating LVP in most of my rentals. The most recent one I did had hardwoods. They make a tile looking LVP that I can send a link for and have used in bathrooms.
- Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
I always use sheet vinyl in bathrooms and usually in kitchens. We've used a lot of laminate in the past but are gravitating to LVP as the price has come down. We still use laminate in bedrooms. We've stopped putting in carpet in most instances. In our own home, we have the same carpet from 20 years ago and it's fine, in a rental seems two years and it's trashed. We do allow dogs in our houses and they can be hard on flooring too. We have a standard palette of paints we use for both interior and exterior and that makes it a lot simpler keeping track of what's painted with what. We have used some 5 gallon pails of paint we've picked up at flea markets and such and if they're colors that work we use those until they're gone. We will usually paint a bedroom in blue or some other pastel color if the house has 3 or more bedrooms. Tenants like a bit of color vs the "off white" they usually see. In kitchens we often paint those light yellow. We usually use inexpensive door locks but keyed alike for all doors. We play musical locks on our properties.
- Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes6y
We usually buy used oak cabinets; they are usually widely available and super cheap because they were the builder standard in the 90's and everyone is redoing them now -- I try to find hidden hinge cabinets so we don't have to redo the hinges. We then have a tenant that refinishes the oak cabinets using rustoleum cabinet transformations. We use daich spreadstone over exissting laminate countertops. If we need a custom countertop to get the most functional kitchen my husband builds it and we use daich spreadston. Every now and then when we are able to do a standard "L" kitchen we'll buy stock laminate at Menards. We get LVP at Lowes or Home Depot (I used trafficmaster pllus allure in a retail store for two years then pulled it up and reinstalled it in a rental three years ago, I was in there with an appraiser a month ago and it still looks great. We usually purchase windows and doors at Menards when they are doing "11% off everything" and get jeld-wind "better" single hung or sliders depending on the application. I'm about to do a kitchen with new Ikea cabinets and Ikea appliances while they are having the current kitchen sale. Usually I look for scratch and dent deals at Lowes and Home depot and I also buy appliances from a guy that buys and re-sells Best Buy liquidations (he has eight large storage units full of appliances). I do 2" faux wood blinds for window coverings in many apartments and I usually get them from JCPenny on sale.
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