So let’s say you place a gig offering on Facebook, or some other site looking for someone to do a make ready on a rental. Before the day is over you’re going to be overwhelmed with people saying they can do the job and they have tons of experience. How have some of you sorted through the posers to find the gem?
@Jim K. is spot-on. The main reason there are fewer tradespeople is that the new generations are not interested in that sort of work. You go a jobsite nowadays and look at the ages of the people working....the average age is now 40s, where it used to be 20s or 30s.
I'd say it's easier to find a good contractor than a good handyman. There is a market that needs an influx of qualified people, most college kids ought to drop out and learn some trade skills... they'd make far more being a handyman in a lot of cases.
I am constantly amazed by how well our school system has managed to brainwash our kids into the belief that there's no money in the trades, or rather that working in an office is the way to go for everyone. If I had an office opening that I was paying $15/hr for as a starting salary, I would advertise it and get twenty resumes from college grads emailed to me within a day, all with nice little objective lines stating, "I am a motivated self-starter..."
Instead, I have on-and-off apprentice handyman, basic real estate education, basic financial education, driver opportunities available. Paying $15/hr starting salary, no experience necessary, I do all the training, just pass Jimbo the tools and listen to him blather on. It's INCREDIBLY hard finding motivated, smart young people who can see the possibilities. There are a few, don't get me wrong. Hope he doesn't get upset for mentioning it, but there ARE people like @Steven Ko, who actually moved here to the Burgh to get started. Yet once you start talking about getting a handle on your debt, getting a job, and steadily working at improving your credit rating for a few years, there's perhaps one Steven who buckles down and does the ugly to a hundred Bozos who shrug and disappear.
I'm not saying college is a scam. I went to college. Did very good at it, didn't have to pay much for it. College gave me a lot of skills that have helped me understand a lot about this business, most notably the critical thinking skills that helped me analyze how the many simplistic, seductive lies about how to successfully get into real estate are constructed and sold. But a ridiculous number of the other people I went to college with are currently working high-paying jobs, living in bananas-expensive houses, driving cars that are bankrupting them. This just becomes more and more obvious as I get older (46 right now).
I recently got back in touch with someone I went to high school with. He did everything right, went after the right computer science degree, studied hard, got "a good job" in tech, tucked money right from the start into his 401K. And now he lives in a lovely $1.2M home in Waltham, MA with three kids and a wife and retirement savings + equity in the home totaling $600K against maybe $700K in debt on his overpriced house and multiple late-model cars. You ask him about his situation, he'll tell you loudly and proudly that he's been very fortunate and in seven more years he'll burn the mortgage and own his own posh-neighborhood house outright at 53 and be very happy.
I can't talk to my old friend without thinking repetitively, "Oh, you poor broke bastard, you poor broke bastard..."
I've got at least five more examples of the same middle-class-minded, good-job, house-poor, life-wasting financial stupidity at my fingertips in my circle of pre-real-estate friends and of course my family.
I usually look at their profiles and judge a book by their cover. I've had MANY posting up and generally the "younger" crowd tends to flake more than the seasoned veteran. Not to say the seasoned guys haven't burnt me before as well, but at least they show up. If they have a business page, look at the reviews, see if they're generic pass it over. Also if all the people seem similar to the person, likely they are just friends helping them out.
I know a general contractor who was on his own for less than a year with plenty of reviews which were mostly friends and family.
In short: FB is a very hard place to filter contractors who are legitimate. I do on the other hand call around and see who has a wait time. If they have a wait, they are in demand. If they don't, there's a reason.
I usually look at their profiles and judge a book by their cover. I've had MANY posting up and generally the "younger" crowd tends to flake more than the seasoned veteran. Not to say the seasoned guys haven't burnt me before as well, but at least they show up. If they have a business page, look at the reviews, see if they're generic pass it over. Also if all the people seem similar to the person, likely they are just friends helping them out.
I know a general contractor who was on his own for less than a year with plenty of reviews which were mostly friends and family.
In short: FB is a very hard place to filter contractors who are legitimate. I do on the other hand call around and see who has a wait time. If they have a wait, they are in demand. If they don't, there's a reason.
Have you ever found a good handyman this way for a property you had out of the state?
I don't use Facebook. I use Angie's List and Yelp because their algorithms are good (especially Yelps) and filter fake reviews out (unlike Google - they have tons of fake reviews and it's easy to spot when each account that has left a Google review has 1-3 reviews in total).
I've found all my tradesmen in multiple markets - including handymen - VIA Yelp/Angieslist. And one nice thing about Yelp is the tradesperson (or their customer) typically posts photos of their work on the page which is nice to see.
@Joe S. Ask lots of questions, and get references. Then actually call the references and see if you can stop by and check out the completed work.
Find out what work they do themselves, vs if they hire any subcontractors. Trust but verify.
@Joe S.
Often having the ability to see some of the prior work is usually the best judge.
I also find that contractors that come around to bid and then proceed to blab on and on about whatever random subjects and can’t seem to stop talking about non-job related topics (which is a huge waste of my time) seem to be the ones that are the most frustrating to deal with.
Basically if they can come by and provide me either verified pictures or places where I can see their old work, they seem to be focused on the job at hand, and have a minimum amount of social skills , they seem to work the best.
@Account Closed
Have you ever used this method to locate help for an out of state property?
So let’s say you place a gig offering on Facebook, or some other site looking for someone to do a make ready on a rental. Before the day is over you’re going to be overwhelmed with people saying they can do the job and they have tons of experience. How have some of you sorted through the posers to find the gem?
I hate to say it, but given the short labor supply right now, anyone you find on Facebook that can do a job quickly is inexperienced. The best handymen will have a wait list. I have had really mixed results on Facebook. The best way to vet is asking questions. Find out what type of work they have done, ask for pictures and referrals. As others mentioned, you can give them a mini quiz about the work they are doing. Have them explain their process for whatever they are doing. I have done it all, so I can tell BS pretty easily.
@Joe S.
Yes, I have. I probably ask a few more questions, and check references more diligently when I am dealing with OOS problems.
@Joe S.
Get recommendations from ppl you know.
Of you don't know ppl. Talk to the guys at the lowes and home depot pro desks, they'll know who to recommend
@Joe S.
Get recommendations from ppl you know.
Of you don't know ppl. Talk to the guys at the lowes and home depot pro desks, they'll know who to recommend
Most investors that activity rehab don’t share their contracts due to conflict of interest.
Try Craigslist instead of Facebook. Check references. Avoid low priced guys (this is most important). Look at their truck/van when they pull up - yes I said truck, no sedans....
And remember that handymen cant do a job over $600 in total. You'll need a licensed contractor for that....
@Joe S.
Read the reviews, and look online for additional information. You could ask for references, but these normally not helpful in my opinion. A good contrast already has his brother in law signed up to be his reference.
I usually look at their profiles and judge a book by their cover. I've had MANY posting up and generally the "younger" crowd tends to flake more than the seasoned veteran. Not to say the seasoned guys haven't burnt me before as well, but at least they show up. If they have a business page, look at the reviews, see if they're generic pass it over. Also if all the people seem similar to the person, likely they are just friends helping them out.
I know a general contractor who was on his own for less than a year with plenty of reviews which were mostly friends and family.
In short: FB is a very hard place to filter contractors who are legitimate. I do on the other hand call around and see who has a wait time. If they have a wait, they are in demand. If they don't, there's a reason.
Have you ever found a good handyman this way for a property you had out of the state?
Sorry, never had to use an OOS handyman, apologies. However, I feel like the same strategy could work
... is to leverage your network and get recommendations from other investors who can personally vouch for handymen they used ...
This is the best option realistically
... is to leverage your network and get recommendations from other investors who can personally vouch for handymen they used ...
This is the best option realistically
Active investors don’t always share their handyman info.
... is to leverage your network and get recommendations from other investors who can personally vouch for handymen they used ...
This is the best option realistically
Active investors don’t always share their handyman info.
Hard to let a good thing go
The sad fact is that if you don't understand the jobs yourself, you're going to get screwed. Over and over again. And anyone you dub as "the real deal" could have an emergency tomorrow and flake out on you.
We have a critical shortage of capable tradespeople available for private hire on a small scale these days in America. In some places, it's a lot worse than others.
Any real estate investment business model that insists you can just casually whistle up high-quality rehab handymen and contractors right when and where you need them is fatally flawed. Maybe it wasn't like this thirty, forty years ago, but it's really bad now and it's just going to get worse. Those capable and efficient rehab professionals just don't exist in large numbers in this economy, and no amount of wishing will change that going forward.
@Jim K. is spot-on. The main reason there are fewer tradespeople is that the new generations are not interested in that sort of work. You go a jobsite nowadays and look at the ages of the people working....the average age is now 40s, where it used to be 20s or 30s.
I'd say it's easier to find a good contractor than a good handyman. There is a market that needs an influx of qualified people, most college kids ought to drop out and learn some trade skills... they'd make far more being a handyman in a lot of cases.
@Jim K. is spot-on. The main reason there are fewer tradespeople is that the new generations are not interested in that sort of work. You go a jobsite nowadays and look at the ages of the people working....the average age is now 40s, where it used to be 20s or 30s.
I'd say it's easier to find a good contractor than a good handyman. There is a market that needs an influx of qualified people, most college kids ought to drop out and learn some trade skills... they'd make far more being a handyman in a lot of cases.
I am constantly amazed by how well our school system has managed to brainwash our kids into the belief that there's no money in the trades, or rather that working in an office is the way to go for everyone. If I had an office opening that I was paying $15/hr for as a starting salary, I would advertise it and get twenty resumes from college grads emailed to me within a day, all with nice little objective lines stating, "I am a motivated self-starter..."
Instead, I have on-and-off apprentice handyman, basic real estate education, basic financial education, driver opportunities available. Paying $15/hr starting salary, no experience necessary, I do all the training, just pass Jimbo the tools and listen to him blather on. It's INCREDIBLY hard finding motivated, smart young people who can see the possibilities. There are a few, don't get me wrong. Hope he doesn't get upset for mentioning it, but there ARE people like @Steven Ko, who actually moved here to the Burgh to get started. Yet once you start talking about getting a handle on your debt, getting a job, and steadily working at improving your credit rating for a few years, there's perhaps one Steven who buckles down and does the ugly to a hundred Bozos who shrug and disappear.
I'm not saying college is a scam. I went to college. Did very good at it, didn't have to pay much for it. College gave me a lot of skills that have helped me understand a lot about this business, most notably the critical thinking skills that helped me analyze how the many simplistic, seductive lies about how to successfully get into real estate are constructed and sold. But a ridiculous number of the other people I went to college with are currently working high-paying jobs, living in bananas-expensive houses, driving cars that are bankrupting them. This just becomes more and more obvious as I get older (46 right now).
I recently got back in touch with someone I went to high school with. He did everything right, went after the right computer science degree, studied hard, got "a good job" in tech, tucked money right from the start into his 401K. And now he lives in a lovely $1.2M home in Waltham, MA with three kids and a wife and retirement savings + equity in the home totaling $600K against maybe $700K in debt on his overpriced house and multiple late-model cars. You ask him about his situation, he'll tell you loudly and proudly that he's been very fortunate and in seven more years he'll burn the mortgage and own his own posh-neighborhood house outright at 53 and be very happy.
I can't talk to my old friend without thinking repetitively, "Oh, you poor broke bastard, you poor broke bastard..."
I've got at least five more examples of the same middle-class-minded, good-job, house-poor, life-wasting financial stupidity at my fingertips in my circle of pre-real-estate friends and of course my family.
No money in the trades? Hahahaha. Once your apprentice goes on his own he's making what? $100k a year? Apprentice electricians and plumbers the same. Free men.
Meanwhile I know kids that went to university that are a couple hundred thousand in debt. For what? Slaves.
So I'm just gonna ask it what do you define as a real handyman??
reason I ask is because my state doesn't have a "handyman" license. We have a home improvement contractors registration. Which spoiler alert still is not a professional license! It's a half baked concoction that really only means you have a million dollars worth of commercial general liability insurance, have passed a background check and paid the application fee. It doesn't necessarily prove that you know anything at all about construction. There's no test, which is why its not a license its a registration.
That said there are a ton of 1 man truck type guys who identify as handyman/women that do awesome work and know what they're doing. The same with other trades.
Here's the thing though good tradesman/women don't have to chase work. The work chases them. In construction you make more profit when you pick and choose your customers. Thats why referrals are the way to go.
if you're gonna look on Facebook join a local group where people refer locals.
Ask them to list tool inventory and supplies that they currently have in stock or on their truck(multiple cordless drivers, skill saw, oscillating multi tool, sanders, mider saw, table saw, t-square, carpenters square, hammers, drivers, multiple sizes of shop vacuum, etc). Generally posers will have a much shorter list, but, a capable handyperson can get a lot of stuff done with a Leatherman, 6in1 driver, measuring tape, and a flashlight, however, he will still have long list of tools that have been acquired over years of service.
Ask about most difficult jobs they have done and how they did them. Ask their top 5 most common types of jobs.
it's like interviewing tenants....the more you get them talking, the more it will start to become blatantly obvious, who is posing and who is not...or maybe stick with investing in REITs?