So let’s say you place a gig offering on Facebook, or some other site looking for someone to do a make ready on a rental. Before the day is over you’re going to be overwhelmed with people saying they can do the job and they have tons of experience. How have some of you sorted through the posers to find the gem?
@Jim K. is spot-on. The main reason there are fewer tradespeople is that the new generations are not interested in that sort of work. You go a jobsite nowadays and look at the ages of the people working....the average age is now 40s, where it used to be 20s or 30s.
I'd say it's easier to find a good contractor than a good handyman. There is a market that needs an influx of qualified people, most college kids ought to drop out and learn some trade skills... they'd make far more being a handyman in a lot of cases.
I am constantly amazed by how well our school system has managed to brainwash our kids into the belief that there's no money in the trades, or rather that working in an office is the way to go for everyone. If I had an office opening that I was paying $15/hr for as a starting salary, I would advertise it and get twenty resumes from college grads emailed to me within a day, all with nice little objective lines stating, "I am a motivated self-starter..."
Instead, I have on-and-off apprentice handyman, basic real estate education, basic financial education, driver opportunities available. Paying $15/hr starting salary, no experience necessary, I do all the training, just pass Jimbo the tools and listen to him blather on. It's INCREDIBLY hard finding motivated, smart young people who can see the possibilities. There are a few, don't get me wrong. Hope he doesn't get upset for mentioning it, but there ARE people like @Steven Ko, who actually moved here to the Burgh to get started. Yet once you start talking about getting a handle on your debt, getting a job, and steadily working at improving your credit rating for a few years, there's perhaps one Steven who buckles down and does the ugly to a hundred Bozos who shrug and disappear.
I'm not saying college is a scam. I went to college. Did very good at it, didn't have to pay much for it. College gave me a lot of skills that have helped me understand a lot about this business, most notably the critical thinking skills that helped me analyze how the many simplistic, seductive lies about how to successfully get into real estate are constructed and sold. But a ridiculous number of the other people I went to college with are currently working high-paying jobs, living in bananas-expensive houses, driving cars that are bankrupting them. This just becomes more and more obvious as I get older (46 right now).
I recently got back in touch with someone I went to high school with. He did everything right, went after the right computer science degree, studied hard, got "a good job" in tech, tucked money right from the start into his 401K. And now he lives in a lovely $1.2M home in Waltham, MA with three kids and a wife and retirement savings + equity in the home totaling $600K against maybe $700K in debt on his overpriced house and multiple late-model cars. You ask him about his situation, he'll tell you loudly and proudly that he's been very fortunate and in seven more years he'll burn the mortgage and own his own posh-neighborhood house outright at 53 and be very happy.
I can't talk to my old friend without thinking repetitively, "Oh, you poor broke bastard, you poor broke bastard..."
I've got at least five more examples of the same middle-class-minded, good-job, house-poor, life-wasting financial stupidity at my fingertips in my circle of pre-real-estate friends and of course my family.
Ask them to list tool inventory and supplies that they currently have in stock or on their truck(multiple cordless drivers, skill saw, oscillating multi tool, sanders, mider saw, table saw, t-square, carpenters square, hammers, drivers, multiple sizes of shop vacuum, etc). Generally posers will have a much shorter list, but, a capable handyperson can get a lot of stuff done with a Leatherman, 6in1 driver, measuring tape, and a flashlight, however, he will still have long list of tools that have been acquired over years of service.
Don't hire anyone that doesn't own at least 4 table saws..... ;-)
Ask them to list tool inventory and supplies that they currently have in stock or on their truck(multiple cordless drivers, skill saw, oscillating multi tool, sanders, mider saw, table saw, t-square, carpenters square, hammers, drivers, multiple sizes of shop vacuum, etc). Generally posers will have a much shorter list, but, a capable handyperson can get a lot of stuff done with a Leatherman, 6in1 driver, measuring tape, and a flashlight, however, he will still have long list of tools that have been acquired over years of service.
Don't hire anyone that doesn't own at least 4 table saws..... ;-)
Four table saws??????
Ask them to list tool inventory and supplies that they currently have in stock or on their truck(multiple cordless drivers, skill saw, oscillating multi tool, sanders, mider saw, table saw, t-square, carpenters square, hammers, drivers, multiple sizes of shop vacuum, etc). Generally posers will have a much shorter list, but, a capable handyperson can get a lot of stuff done with a Leatherman, 6in1 driver, measuring tape, and a flashlight, however, he will still have long list of tools that have been acquired over years of service.
Don't hire anyone that doesn't own at least 4 table saws..... ;-)
Four table saws??????
JK.....but that's what I have hanging around...
Ask them to list tool inventory and supplies that they currently have in stock or on their truck(multiple cordless drivers, skill saw, oscillating multi tool, sanders, mider saw, table saw, t-square, carpenters square, hammers, drivers, multiple sizes of shop vacuum, etc). Generally posers will have a much shorter list, but, a capable handyperson can get a lot of stuff done with a Leatherman, 6in1 driver, measuring tape, and a flashlight, however, he will still have long list of tools that have been acquired over years of service.
Don't hire anyone that doesn't own at least 4 table saws..... ;-)
Four table saws??????
Issac and Bruce do make good points, although Bruce's is pretty subtle. Handymen need a lot of tools to handle a lot of different situations. A mark of a bad handyman is that he tends to try to do without a table saw in various ways -- it's a big power tool and what it adds to your capabilities are not always obvious.
The condition those tools are kept in is also a reliable indicator of capability. You need experience in the game to understand the value of cases and toolbags and careful organization to help you find what you need very quickly. My tools are an investment that I make money with: I take care of them and I'm not big on letting others monkey with them.
How many tools have we lent out only to never see them again....? Ouch. Had to learn to be very possessive about my tools...
@Joe S.
Referrals from people you know, trust, or have legitimate experience. Here’s an example: I needed an HVAC guy for a small job. I no longer have any good contacts in that world but did know of a small local fabrication shop and called them to ask if they knew anyone that they’d recommend for a little job. They gave me a list of 3 names, one of which I connected with and now he’s my go to guy for HVAC work. Affordable, honest, and works his a** off. After the first job he called make sure I was satisfied and then said “I can’t afford for you to not be” as his reputation is everything. Now THAT is the type of tradesman you want!
Been around Real Estate maintenance and Construction all my life, usually the old school guys are your go to around here. Another thing as well, watch how they hold their hammer lmao or drill.
So let’s say you place a gig offering on Facebook, or some other site looking for someone to do a make ready on a rental. Before the day is over you’re going to be overwhelmed with people saying they can do the job and they have tons of experience. How have some of you sorted through the posers to find the gem?
It's simple really for handymen. First, @Jim K. is absolutely correct. If you dont know what you need done you are in for a bit of schooling. That's ok though. You can minimize that somewhat. Here is what you do to find a good handyman (maybe? but works the best)
Ask them to come to the job and give an estimate. Talk to them and tell them what you need done. If they are scared to give an estimate that is minus 10 points. I know, most handymen work by the hour but if they are scared to estimate it they dont know what it will take to do the job. Ask them what materials they will need to get the job done. If they cant give you a rough estimate fairly quick (depending on the scope of work of course) they may not know how to do the job and are waiting on a weekend professional to get ideas from.
I have had some that actually said they "have a partner that only works on weekends". YOUR handyman needs to know his stuff. Not his weekend warrior.
Then, if he passes all these tests, walk him out to his truck. This is key here. Keep him talking while you look in the back of his truck. If his tools are all Harbor Freight or Black and Decker then run. He is not in it for the long haul. If the back of his truck looks like a tornado hit it? That is what your house will look like when he gets done and wants you to pay him. Then by now you will want him to leave so you can vet the next one. Actually open his door for him as a gentleman and look inside without being conspicuous. If he has last months egg McMuffin wrappers on the floor board then thank him for his time and tell him you have others coming to look at the job and will let him know later.
You will tell him no I hope and get the one that is cleaner, answers your questions to your satisfaction and are comfortable with. Often I see LLs that dont do what I do and are burned really bad. I always ask them "Did you even look at the bed of his truck before you hired him?"
So I'm just gonna ask it what do you define as a real handyman??
reason I ask is because my state doesn't have a "handyman" license. We have a home improvement contractors registration. Which spoiler alert still is not a professional license! It's a half baked concoction that really only means you have a million dollars worth of commercial general liability insurance, have passed a background check and paid the application fee. It doesn't necessarily prove that you know anything at all about construction. There's no test, which is why its not a license its a registration.
That said there are a ton of 1 man truck type guys who identify as handyman/women that do awesome work and know what they're doing. The same with other trades.
Here's the thing though good tradesman/women don't have to chase work. The work chases them. In construction you make more profit when you pick and choose your customers. Thats why referrals are the way to go.
if you're gonna look on Facebook join a local group where people refer locals.
Very well said.
Ask them to list tool inventory and supplies that they currently have in stock or on their truck(multiple cordless drivers, skill saw, oscillating multi tool, sanders, mider saw, table saw, t-square, carpenters square, hammers, drivers, multiple sizes of shop vacuum, etc). Generally posers will have a much shorter list, but, a capable handyperson can get a lot of stuff done with a Leatherman, 6in1 driver, measuring tape, and a flashlight, however, he will still have long list of tools that have been acquired over years of service.
Don't hire anyone that doesn't own at least 4 table saws..... ;-)
Lmao....because we all need tables right?
Ask them to list tool inventory and supplies that they currently have in stock or on their truck(multiple cordless drivers, skill saw, oscillating multi tool, sanders, mider saw, table saw, t-square, carpenters square, hammers, drivers, multiple sizes of shop vacuum, etc). Generally posers will have a much shorter list, but, a capable handyperson can get a lot of stuff done with a Leatherman, 6in1 driver, measuring tape, and a flashlight, however, he will still have long list of tools that have been acquired over years of service.
Don't hire anyone that doesn't own at least 4 table saws..... ;-)
Four table saws??????
JK.....but that's what I have hanging around...
I'm down to 2 table saws and 2 miter saws......
But I am retired so I have an excuse.
@Joe S. - ask for and check references of recent jobs. Make that a requirement in your post.
I think the vehicle says a lot about their experience and pricing.
A non-construction vehicle - newbie or just ******.
A beat up construction vehicle- my sweet spot.
A newer van with head to toe construction decals - Expensive, but reliable.
A chromed out truck, that doesn't look like its seen dirt - I avoid these guys.
I personally think this current labor shortage is short-lived and that the market is going to be flooded with contract labor as jobs are displaced with automation over the next decade. The wild card is if we keep incentivizing people to stay on unemployment.
@Joe S.
I’ve gotten people off Facebook Craigslist indeed and just about every other site you can think of for my contracting conpany. It’s tough to find good people but if you verify properly you should be able to. A few tips
Good quality smaller handymen won’t ask for money up front. They will get you to sign an agreement or just jump in and start working without asking dor money even if they need to buy materials. So ask them what they need to start the job. Keep in mind this is usually only for handymen. For a larger or established company they will want to be ahead of you in payment. Like me for instance I won’t take a job unless my client pays me first for all materia snd subs and I give out the money as needed. I also have proof of concept and also don’t need the work if they don’t want to agree to my terms.
Speaking of needing the work. Are they desperate? Do they want to start tomorrow. Do they seem more interested in getting money and starting rather than planning properly. This may be a red flag that they don’t get much work and are desperate which isn’t very good. Be sure to ask them what they are currently working on and ask for pictures as proof. If they are a handyman then they should be getting dirty each day snd should be out working.
Ask for references but more importantly ask them about their work and see if they know what they’re talking about. Most handyman adds anyone will apply to. Maybe put needing skilled carpenter to take away some of the riff raff. But ultimately you have to trust your gut. I’d you get a bad feeling about someone just move on to someone else. The only times I had issue is when I didn’t fire as soon as somthring seemed out of placeZ I tried to
Give them mor chances to finish and do it right. If they can do it right they would have the first time: so verify that they know what they are doing. Require pictures as proof of progress as soon as something doesn’t seem or sound right fire them and move on. Trust your gut ultimately!!
@Bruce Woodruff Hit the nail on the head. I was in education for 21 years before getting into real estate. When they took industrial arts out of the high schools in Orlando it was a HUUUUGE mistake. Not everyone is meant for college and getting kids exposed early is the key.
Like me for instance I won’t take a job unless my client pays me first for all materia snd subs and I give out the money as needed.
Ask for references but more importantly ask them about their work
You get all that money up front? That's not actually legal for a contractor in most states....Or do you ask for it after you're into the job?
Re references - They are pretty worthless. Think about it....has anyone ever got a bad reference?
Like me for instance I won’t take a job unless my client pays me first for all materia snd subs and I give out the money as needed.
Ask for references but more importantly ask them about their work
You get all that money up front? That's not actually legal for a contractor in most states....Or do you ask for it after you're into the job?
Re references - They are pretty worthless. Think about it....has anyone ever got a bad reference?
So I don’t do anything illegal that’s for sure. But I stay ahead of my client. 20% prior to start and each draw is for future work to be completed. So they lay phase 1 at start anD phase 2 at completion of phase 1 etc.
Yes you’re 100% right about references but it will tell you a lot about a person. I once got references from someone who was 63 and all his references were from his past employer. Why not any from the other 40 years. It will help you to know more about someone. Plus it’s a pain in the *** the get reference so if someone is willing tO get them and contact them snd let them know an employer will Be calling it’s another step that someone is willing to take for your position or job.
Yes you’re 100% right about references but it will tell you a lot about a person. I once got references from someone who was 63 and all his references were from his past employer. Why not any from the other 40 years. It will help you to know more about someone. Plus it’s a pain in the *** the get reference so if someone is willing tO get them and contact them snd let them know an employer will Be calling it’s another step that someone is willing to take for your position or job.
Gotcha...I just know that in CA and AZ, a Contr is only allowed to get $1000 or 10% up front (whichever is less). I used to get nothing up front but would make sure I was covered for materials and subs and got my profit later usually...
Yes, references are a necessary evil and certainly can provide some input into character, I would just make sure that they are actually legit references :-)