What do you want Mr. Notebuyer?

What do you want Mr. Notebuyer?

Investor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2009 · 181 posts · 14 votes

I'm going to sell a condo down in Palm Desert California that I fully remodeled. I want to sell it with owner financing to facilitate a fast sale (lot of inventory in the desert and market time is VERY slow). Asking price will be around 300k (which is at or a bit above the FMV). Then I want to sell the note. Before doing so I'd like to know exactly what notebuyers are looking for so that I know how to structure the note.
This is what I'm considering: 20% down, carry the paper on 240k; 6% interest; principle/interest loan; 8 year term/amortized for 30 years with balloon payment at the end; 2 year prepayment penalty; will season note for 6 months.

Is this desireable? Acceptable? If not, please give me your feedback so that I can create the optimum note to facilitate a quick sale.

Also would a note like this be bought at par or is a discount expected? If discount expected what would be the approximate discount required?

Thank you in advance.

Alfred

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Dion DePaoliPro Member
Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
14y

We are buyers of performing, sub/re performing and non performing notes on a nationwide basis. Here is some insight from our wheel house.

It was only briefly mentioned and I want to put more of an emphasis. The collateral (real property) will be re-evaluated and a conservative value will be used. We and most of the pro's we work with use 30 day quick sale value from national BPO companies. No buyer is going to "push" the value up. The down payment on the loan is good and I would not lower it since this is a private loan.

The interest rate is pretty low for the loan being private. A common theme I see sometimes from REI folks is they think they have to compete with banks/lenders. Don't do it, your loan in its nature is riskier, you are not experienced at this and the borrower will be lesser grade more often then not. As I think Bill mentioned 9.0% is a nicer number, I would not go lower than 7.25%. You can write the loan with an interest only feature to it as well. A higher interest rate will reduce the new buyer discount in the event the borrower goes delinquent by missing a payment or two whether consecutive or in the life of your ownership.

Don't confuse yourself with a bank nor should you assume you should write a loan that looks conventional with its terms. Any borrower who can be approved for a conventional loan will just go get one. That should be fine with you, your paid in full and don't have to mess with a loan. This also provides an incentive for a borrower to look to refinance if rates persist over the next two or three years. As such, I would not put a pre-payment.

As far as credit goes. Everyone knows the better the credit the better. This also goes hand in hand with my point, a borrower with a higher credit score say 680+ should be talking to a bank/lender, not you. I would presume your borrower is more of a lower credit score. This could be "OK". We buy low FICOs all the time. Folks who recently came out of a foreclosure and need a new start or divorce or other life situations which given some time and rehabilitation should be able to get their score back up and go to a bank/lender. I would try to keep the minimum to 600+ but you never know if someone comes in and wants to put more money down or some other compensating factor. Be prepared to weigh all of the parameters.

The balloon is a tool that you need to use as safety net. I would set the balloon somewhere in the ballpark of 24 to 36 months. I think this ties back in with the borrower profile you will end up with. Help push them to get you refinanced out. This will also help keep some value in the loan if you sell later in the loan life. Some buyers will buy this for the chance of default by maturity and it should help you reduce the discount on UPB if he is performing. In example, if he is paying and you sell with 12 months left a 5.0% UPB discount on a 7.25% interest going to put a little less then 12.0% IRR on the table for an investor/buyer if he refinances out. The maturity time will attract some folks to jump in and see if he goes into default and take a gain on the foreclosure.

Regarding pricing. In general being a private loan you will most likely never see anything close to par or 100% of UPB. 6 months is probably close to 82% to 85% of UPB, 12 months plus you should be able to find 85% to 92% of UPB. (UPB = Unpaid Principal Balance) In the event he goes delinquent one or two times you can discount those numbers by an additional 5% to 10%. If he has more delinquencies or ends up in default you can expect to see a much deeper discounts. The good news is California non-performing bids tend to still be on the higher side of the rest of the nation because of the non-judicial foreclosure practice.

None of that is an offer to buy your loan or is meant to be any formal offer. It is meant to give you general market insight. As Bill mentioned, get some experienced folks on your side to help originate and not a bad idea to continue to find note investors to bounce the loan terms and structure off of as you move forward.

Good luck.

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  • Investor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2009 · 181 posts · 14 votes
    14y

    Update: I finished negotiations yesterday and am opening escrow tomorrow. All that work on setting up for owner financing and I've wound up with a buyer with his own financing. Oh well. He's a good solid buyer and I can't pass this up. It's more important that I just sell and get this project behind me than anything else. Not a problem as I can put my money partner into 1st TDs so that he can recoup the money lost on this project. He is fine with that. Thanks all for your help. I learned a lot. Alfred

  • Investor · Kalamazoo, MI · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 495 votes
    14y

    Nice work Alfred. Cash is king!

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    Congrats Alfred! I'd say that's much better in your situation!

    But wow, 11 pages on buying/selling a note......

    Stickey for this topic???? :)

  • Investor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2009 · 181 posts · 14 votes
    13y

    Believe it or not, there is still more to this saga. The buyer cancelled escrow!

    Yet, this saga will be resolved in a few more days.

    Stay tuned for the details.

  • Investor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2009 · 181 posts · 14 votes
    13y

    Since you were involved in my condo project you deserve to have closures. This is what occurred...

    After all that research work spent on owner financing and structuring the perfect note, a buyer came along with their own financing and I could only manage to get them up to 263k purchase price. I decided to take it as the market is tough in Palm Desert and this might've been the best or only offer. We went into escrow a month ago. Everything was going perfectly and then the agent notified me that the buyer was cancelling escrow (within his 17 day period, so I couldn't keep his earnest money deposit). Cancellation was due to fact that their plan was to rent the condo for 5 years, then sell their house, and then move into the condo as their retirement home... at the last moment the wife decided she wouldn't be happy with the condo as her retirement home (too small, etc.).

    Luckily, I had 3 other potential buyers call when I was in escrow and I kept their contact info in case I needed backup. I immediately notified the other 3 and one of them came back to me immediately and offered all cash, no agent representation, and I was able to negotiate her up to 267K purchase price. The buyer loves the unit and is very appreciative of the remodel that I did on it. She considers it perfect for her needs.

    Escrow closed today. We made 12k more on the sale than if the earlier sale had went through. Our loss was minimal and will be recouped in a matter of months by putting the capital into some first trust deeds.

    A happy ending, eh?

    Thanks for your help guys.

    Best,
    Alfred

  • Involved In Real Estate · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2012 · 216 posts · 42 votes
    13y

    I just read through this whole thread and I am glad to hear you were able to get out from under this condo. What a read!

    I think Joel Owens nailed it on the first page of the thread, the condo was over priced, probably over-improved, and acquisition cost was too high.

    On top of that the money in the condo was a sunk cost and any note created should stand on it's own. If the money could be invested elsewhere at a higher return that should have been the goal, which it sounds like you have decided to do. I wish you luck in the money business but be careful, you don't want to make the same mistake again. I know it's funny to look at the returns on short term treasuries but your partner would have done better with them in this instance.

    Please keep us updated with how the lending goes.

    Will Barnard and Marc Faulkner Did anyone ever do any business with Dion DePaoli? I assume not but would love to hear what he had to say.

  • Dion DePaoliPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Tim Czarkowski

    We have chatted and looked at some possible trades (Will, Marc, Loc and myself) but did not consummate a trade.

    As far as what my thoughts are, happy for Alfred Bell he got out in a good deal and minimized his loss.

    Is that what you were asking Tim?

  • Involved In Real Estate · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2012 · 216 posts · 42 votes
    13y

    Dion DePaoli Yes that was exactly what I was asking. They seemed to think the prices you were offering were above market and that if they could trade at those prices they gladly would. It seems to me there must be some misunderstanding between what your offering and what they expected. If they believe your prices were really that outlandish surely they would trade with you. Honestly your conversation is out of my area of expertise and bit above my head, but that is my understanding of the conversation. I was just hoping for some clarification.

  • Dion DePaoliPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Tim Czarkowski, it never really flushed out. While we all flirt with the whole loan market in general, my firm tends to be a bit more heavily involved with institutional grade notes and trading. There is a little difference in the bid and the ask in that market than the private paper market.

    All that said, notes are not homogenous and market price can only be fully realized when the asset is put to market. Investor capital requirements and risk appetite will always influence that number.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Tim Czarkowski:
    Dion DePaoli Yes that was exactly what I was asking. They seemed to think the prices you were offering were above market and that if they could trade at those prices they gladly would. It seems to me there must be some misunderstanding between what your offering and what they expected. If they believe your prices were really that outlandish surely they would trade with you. Honestly your conversation is out of my area of expertise and bit above my head, but that is my understanding of the conversation. I was just hoping for some clarification.

    If you read Dions' posts two or three times and get through the wordyness of it all it should make sence. Dion is on the corporate side so it may be a little far out for non-finance types...... :)

    It is a different world than the "investors" on BP are exposed too. Good luck...! BTW, I see that in one day the "influence points " droped from 96 to 87 in one day, so screw this game....I might be back when it's -50.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2012 · 216 posts · 42 votes
    13y

    It sounds to me like the difference in pricing came from the notes being different types. Instituional vs Private Loan.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    6y

    @Jay Murakami - There are a lot of buyers who buy unseasoned notes but just be aware they will look to discount them because there is no pay history.

    Ways to maximize value were if there was a large down payment made, there was a formal appraisal done on the property (to confirm loan value was not inflated) and if the borrower if owner occupied was approved by a mortgage loan originator. 

    For me on performing seasoned assets I look to get 12-15% on notes and 15%+ on CFD's. If they are unseasoned without that information then I am 20%+ as I look at it as a performing note. Now others may view it differently but that is my business model. Hope that helps

    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Investor · Baltimore County, MD · Member since 2014 · 466 posts · 438 votes
    6y

    We have purchased notes with very little seasoning but we essentially price them like non-perfomers. 

  • Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    Thank you Chris and Jamie, appreciate it.  JM

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