Buying defaulted mortgage notes directly from banks

Buying defaulted mortgage notes directly from banks

Real Estate Investor · Monmouth Junction, NJ · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 1 vote

I came across following idea from internet about buying defaulted mortgage notes directly from banks. However, I need some more help. Please help. Thanks, Sam

Contact homeowner in pre-foreclosure. When you first approach the homeowners about helping them out of their property, you'll want to let them know that you aren't going to save their mortgage you're just trying to give them a clean escape from having that defaulted mortgage on their credit. After you've spoken with the homeowner and they've agreed to sell to you, have the homeowner under contract to sell their home to you. This is even though you are going to buy the note on their mortgage. You'll just have them sign the contract so they are locked in with you, and the homeowner doesn't turn around to try and sell the house to someone else while you are working with the bank. Once, you buy the note the contract becomes irrelevant.

Go into the bank and ask them if they would consider a Short Sale to you. Usually they'll say yes and begin to give you all kinds of information to turn in for final approval on a short sale. Then, you can come up with, 'Hey, wouldn't it just be easier if I bought the note from you?'

They'll usually jump on your suggestion because it is so much easier to sell the note than get the process of a short sale through their system.

By purchasing the note to the property you basically become the bank. You buy the right to collect the remaining amount left on the defaulted mortgage.

Once you have the mortgage note you have a few options to move forward. You as the mortgage note owner could continue on with the foreclosure, get a 'Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure' or modify the loan.

MY QUESTION:

1. WHAT SELL PRICE SHOULD BE INDICATED ON PURCHASE CONTRACT?
2. WHAT OTHER DOCUMENTS SHOULD I ASK THE HOMEOWNER TO SIGN?

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Dion DePaoliPro Member
Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
14y

This is a viable idea and is no where close to new. That said, it has barriers to completion.

The first and foremost was mentioned. The recovery value of the asset. When asking to purchase a note with a discount, typically that discount is less than what the deed to the real property would sell for. Banks have cheap enough money and most have stabilized their reserves to be able to handle going to open market and getting a reasonable market offer.

So in this situation, where you have a relation with the borrower/home owner it is likely safe to assume if you get too greedy and ask for a heavy discount there will be no deal. Instead, if you you can "pay up" (pay more) for the asset because you have a predetermined disposition then you should pass that capacity to pay to the bank to get the deal done. There is an art to drawing out the right price and not giving away all your profit. Always keep in mind the alternative, the bank has no duty to sell for less than what the open market will bare for the asset. So as an example, if the hose sells for 90% of market value then it is doubtful you will get an added 20% on the table with your discount. Slim that margin up and make a solid offer to the bank and use volume not margin as your driver. Likely leads to more success.

The purchase and sale contract for purchasing a note and security instrument (mortgage/deed of trust) is not the same as real property. I have never heard of any NAR agreement for agents to be involved with notes, that is far from the truth. They do not understand the paperwork and many of them are even good at selling real estate. Most real estate brokers/agents involved with note sales are clueless and screw it up. Get a real estate attorney with some experience in the matter and have them use a PSA and back you up legally, perhaps even help with some due diligence. BTW, deal with banks directly ALL THE TIME.

The monster behind the curtain here is you sort of implied you made a deal with the borrower, which you then did not need to follow through with. If that is not what was meant, sorry for the misunderstanding. If that is what was meant, spend a couple minuets and think about putting some ethics into your work flow.

Upon the ownership of the note, you could offer DIL with no deficiency to the borrower to leave. All you would have to do is satisfy the note. Certainly a viable option. Additionally, as the note own you could approve a potential short sale on the table, whether yours or not. If the note is purchased properly, this can still be your gain.

Other documents for the borrower to sign? For what? You shouldn't be creating contracts supposing you are the mortgagee until you are the mortgagee. That could be dangerous, IMO. So, if you want to put the real property under contract subject to short sale approval, then I guess you can figure that paperwork out. The rest of the paperwork is with the bank or mortgagee and like I said, get an attorney who knows these transactions.

Lastly, the concept of ownership by the bank is a large misnomer. If the bank owns the loan, well...they own the loan. What is being confused in there is some of the lost note affirmative defenses that have come up in foreclosure suits along with a gross misunderstanding of the ramifications of the "Robo-Signing" of 2010. If the institution is a bank, like a small community bank, it is likely a portfolio loan and they own it and always have. If the loan is conventional, it is likely serviced by a mortgage servicer and you will have difficulty getting in contact with the actual investor who owns the loan. There is a chance that investor is a securitized trust which will put your chances closer to zero of getting something done. If I were you and knew something about this industry, I would go after the small community banks. Also, go back to my point of not being too greedy. Figure out a method and process to pay as much as you can while making a good profit for your efforts and risk. There you will find success.

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  • Keasbey, NJ · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    how do I get more information about buying defulted mortgage notes from the banks 

  • Keasbey, NJ · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    do any body know how or inside information about make money with tax deeds sale excess proceeds I need the inside information 

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    @Nosa Agidigbi Just stick around.  The Internet is the best place for inside, secret information.  Someone will be along shortly to sell that secret information for only a few hundred bucks.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 137 votes
    11y

    can anyone help with this one. 3m ARV SFR, principle still in the house and has not made a payment in 7 years. The principal has hired an attorney years ago not sure what she has done. The principal wants 100k to walk. Recon 200k. 1.8 to clear title. Payments where 10k per month, principle filed B/k 3 years ago but still in house. Is there a move here, could you try to buy the non performing note? Note is with Ocwen if tha that means anything.

  • Virtual Assistant · Alhambra, CA · Member since 2015 · 92 posts · 16 votes
    10y

    My question is  can the buyer of bank notes, requrest the origenal loan package and if applicable loan modification files as part of the note purchase?

    I"m thinking it would be helpful in determining what action one could take with regards to loan work out. Thank you inadvance BP members

  • Wholesaler · Beacon, NY · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    What to offer the Bank?

    There is a commercial property in upstate NY with a non-performing mortgage. Bank is willing to sell the note but I need in-site on what to offer. No mortgage payments have been  made by borrower since Oct 2015,  Bank is paying taxes and insurance at the sum of 15k a year, been in foreclosure for about 9 months, property is just under fair condition, owners are dodging the paper processors. Original loan 318k and remaining principle before foreclosure is 226k. Realizing that i will have to pay to foreclose on the landlord, make tax/insurance payments. what should i offer this small regional bank? Not sure if it means anything but the property location is outside of the region that they generally do loans....  Bank has sent me an offer form and a confidentiality agreement so i believe they are ready

  • Rochester NY · Member since 2011 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    This is very interesting but where is the profit. I would like to receive more information on this from real investors

  • Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2017 · 185 posts · 178 votes
    9y

    Looks like I'm bringing this post back to life. I was looking at doing something similar. Except a lot easier. Find a home owner who is in default and have them agree to let you save their credit score and going into forclosure. If they are in default and agree to sell you the home for their net pay off amount (and you can still make money on flipping it or turning it into a wholesale) Why not just find a cash buyer, or if you can be the cash buyer... and just bring a cashiers check and a contract. Make a contingent that the XX amount on the Cashiers check or wire will be used from the home owner to pay off the net pay off mortgage and then buy the house for a thousand bucks or something in that order. Does anyone see anything wrong with this? I've searched all over and havnt really seen anyone else doing this or talking to much about this approach... Thanks guys!

  • Real Estate Lender · Hollywood, FL · Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    Anyone have luck buying notes from the bank when the borrower is 30,60,90 day late? 

    Here is south Florida the market is so competitive prices are going up so fast with low inventory. I would think the best way to get deals is buying the note from the bank. Of course, this makes best sense if you can make an agreement with the seller before buying the note. Getting someone to leave the house in Florida while in foreclosure is difficult. 

  • Real Estate Investor in Non-Performing Notes · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    I am new to non-performing notes.  What I have heard is that the bank considers the note to be sub-performing first up to 6 months.  I may be wrong but I think that is what I remember hearing.  It could be 90 days.  I belieave it becomes a non-performing at 6 months behind.  In terms of bidding on the note, you will get a much better discount if the borrower is behind 12 months or more.  My understanding also is that when you approach a bank to buy a note, you should not contact the borrower until you have closed on the deal.  

    This is not the case with an REO where the bank has foreclosed already or in the case of a short sale where the borrower owes more than the property is worth. In the case of a short sale, I believe the borrower has to approach the bank with your offer and the time frame could be 6 months before the bank will answer if they accept your offer. If it is an REO where the bank has foreclosed already, you will need to got through the assigned realtor who is working with the bank on REO properties.

  • Specialist · Delran, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 951 votes
    8y

    Hi @Thomas Martin. I'm still new at this, but from what I've read and heard speaking to a seller who's note you're considering buying before you own it is a big no no and could get you in legal hot water. If you're trying to buy the note for a particular house this is usual fairly difficult to pull off. If you're happy with getting a note on ANY house in FL you might have more luck, but then you don't have as much control over the condition of the property or its location if those are important factors to you. I haven't heard any who recommend a primary business model of buying notes with the chief intent of foreclosing versus getting the owner re-performing considering the cost and time required for foreclosure proceedings as well as all the unknowns that come  along with it.

  • Developer · AZ · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 60 votes
    8y

    I am digging on a deal that is scheduled to go to a Trustee's sale. I have experience buying at Trustee sales as well as stopping Trustee Sales and buying direct prior to the trustee sale scheduled date.

    The current deal I am working has two Heloc Deed of Trusts attached to the property. I believe the Deed of Trust going to the Trustee Sale is in second position and was maxed out by the owner.

    The other layer of complication on this deal is that the owner is actually deceased and obtained the property originally from his father when his father passed away. The Title is in the name of the heirs and devisees of the father. I believe according to the father's will the property was to become his son's who is now also deceased.

    Both Deed of trusts are in the father's name and the family has never filed death certificates with the county from what I can see so far.

    It appears the 2nd position Deed of trust will get auctioned at the trustee sale. It appears to have been maxed out and would lead most people to think it was a first position lein due to the amount owed on it.

    I am in touch with some family members tracking down who is in charge of the estate to make an offer to buy from the estate if it might make sense to avoid the trustee sale/s for them. If that is not possible I planned to attend the trustee sale. The problem is I have no idea of knowing what is owed on the first position deed of trust. If it is maxed out it will be more than the second position deed of trust and would put the property underwater. I understand in most cases you do not want to be purchasing a second position DOT and I do thorough research.

    The primary DOT has not issued a notice of Trustee sale so the beneficiary has not attempted to foreclose. This got me thinking that I should try to buy the primary position Deed of Trust direct from the beneficiary if possible.

    This is a long rabbit hole and maybe a big waste of time. But the property could be an incredible deal and also would be a very special property do to its location and potential to be brought back to life. 

    So I am trying to find out if I can make on offer on the primary Deed of Trust before the trustee sale happening for the second position Deed of Trust. Otherwise I am trying to find out what value there could be in buying a second position lien. I of course have to find out how much that HELOC in primary position had been tapped. Both Deeds of Trust had a deceased trustor that has his heirs named on the deed and the heir is now also deceased. If I did buy a second position lein is there any chance the first position deed of trust would be wiped out or be irrelevant since the trustor is deceased?

    Any comments on this would be great to consider. I am trying to find the best angle. I have talked to one probate attorney but really need to talk to a probate attorney that also know how foreclosures work here.

    If anyone has referral to one like that please share! If I can make it worth your while I will.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    Highly unlikely you could buy the 1st heloc note since it likely from a large bank....that won’t happen, but you could pursue it if it is a small local lender.  The 1st position heloc has nothing to worry about because it will still be attached to the property after the 2nd position heloc forecloses....death of the borrower has no effect on it.

    Likely not time to make a deal with the “owners” since that would likely involve probate, and time.  Without knowing the balance on the first, I wouldn’t touch it at at the auction. You’ll likely be waiting for the foreclosure by the first.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    8y

    I agree with @Wayne Brooks - It will have to end up going through probate. If the auction is the 2nd note the 1st will still remain valid and without knowing what that payoff is how do you know what to bid?

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  • Member since 2023 · 1 post · 0 votes
    1y

    Banks can only get fmv after they become the owner. That's after the foreclosure auction. Until then, bank/lender can only get the amount legally owed to them, anything beyond the debt owed pays other lien holders, fees, etc. Anything leftover goes to homeowner.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Morris Stewart:

    Banks can only get fmv after they become the owner. That's after the foreclosure auction. Until then, bank/lender can only get the amount legally owed to them, anything beyond the debt owed pays other lien holders, fees, etc. Anything leftover goes to homeowner.


     This is a big misconception by investors, thinking they can collect what it sells at auction or even better, that if they are owed $100k and the house is $1M that they will get a $1M home.

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