International Investor Success Stories
Entrepenuer · Bulga, NSW · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 0 votes
Hi, I would like to hear from Non US Citizens investing in the US on how they are going with their investment strategy, what strategies they find are most successful for them with being a remote investor and the hurdles they have had to overcome to achieve success?
Thank you
ok. Have sort of been putting off answering this, as I have found it a mixed bag, but as no one else has commented....!
I am from Australia and first invested in a couple of 'turn key' properties in the U.S after attending a 'boot camp' over here. Everything that could go wrong did, and I basically lost all my money over a period of about 2 years. Could blame a lack of 'due diligence', but I really didn't know what I should have been diligent about, or how to go about it.
As they say however, you learn from your mistakes, and I thus learnt a hell of a lot!
Despite this experience, I could still see there was money to be made over there, but it requires a much more 'hands on' approach. Having no money left, I started playing around with tax liens (can be had for only a few hundred dollars, but you only get the interest), and tax deeds (where you actually get the property). Got a few blocks of land which have appreciated nicely, but found houses were too expensive for me in the markets I was looking in, and often required a lot of work.
Kept researching markets and persevering ( again learning a lot from my mistakes along the way!), and about a year ago, got my first house which I 'flipped' in 3 days for a 6k profit (paid 14k for the house, which needed a lot of work). Am on my next deal now, which I got under contract for $43k. Needs 20-30k for a full rehab, has an ARV of apx $110+k.
I am planning on organising the rehab on this myself, but I have made several trips to the area already, met and talked to people locally, and started building a network of contacts.
This project has taken a long while to get going, as I had to get finance for it (I think I mentioned I had very little money!), which is EXTREMELY difficult if you are not a U.s citizen. 'Find the deal and the money finds you' does not apply to non-citizens!
Generally:
The banking system is really hard to negotiate for non citizens- you are a 'foreign alien' and treated as such. Strong reliance on paper cheques, notary signatures and the time the post takes between countries complicates matters to a surprisingly high degree.
You will have to travel over there a LOT, particularly in the beginning. No amount of Google earth or internet searches replaces actually seeing and getting a feel for neighbourhoods / properties / areas in reality. Areas you thought would be great can turn out to be duds and vice versa. You can't trust other people for this - where you finally choose has to suit what YOU are looking for and you have to be comfortable with it.
Once you have settled on an area, you will need to make MORE trips to develop personal relationships with locals.
If you do all this, you will find people who are really helpful, and keen to see you succeed (and hear your funny accent!). My loan has come through the help of people I have met over there, as have many other recommendations / suggestions. This has given me the confidence to attempt my first 'remote rehab', although it will still probaby need another trip soon.
If finance was not a problem you could probably do this much quicker than I have (I had to save up between trips!), but you might also be more prone to not finding out everything yourself from the ground up. There is a hell of a lot to learn, as there is really no point of similarity between the way the u.s. And Australian real estate markets operate.
Don't know if this was the sort of info you were looking for, but hope it helps!
@Dash Siva Thanks for the prompt!
I'm currently based in the US but moving back to Oz in the new year and would love to start/join an RE investing group. I'll be based in the Hunter Valley, just two hours North.
Let's keep the thread alive and make it happen.
Hi Annette, we are rehabbing in stages ie do a quick cleanup, market it for a few days to gauge response. Sell if there is a suitable offer, if not move on to the next level of rehab, repeat etc. The loan allows for a full rehab (it is a 4 bed 2.5 bath sfh), but as everyone knows, time is money, and the quicker this one is gone, the quicker I can move on to the next. The upcoming holiday season (and the weather!) are factors here too though.
I would have liked to keep the property as a rental, as it is in a great location with very good returns, but because of finance issues (ie I don't have much money!) I need to do a few more 'flips' and build up more cash before I can afford to hold.
sorry, the last post should have said Hi Simon! Can't work out this tagging thing....!
Ok @Dash Siva thanks for your support and i'll check out the podcast later today. Nicky sounds like someone we really need to know! Cheers.
Best of luck Simon!
Feel free to reach out anytime. ^^
Hi @Simon Baker. You have a good memory. Yes, I meet with a group Saturday to play Cashflow (http://www.meetup.com/Sydney-Cashflow-Club/events/226963671/). It's lots of fun, I learn more every week. Plus we have a discussion about our goals for the week and mindset at the end.
It would be great to get a Bigger Pockets group together. Maybe we should move this to a new thread though...? @Dash Siva @Deborah Tuck @Aaron Mercer
Perhaps, most important is "Do something!". Don't just read these posts. If you don't make at least one offer a month, what are you doing? I usually buy 2-4 properties each month. Guess how many offers I make?
Very true.
Hi all
I'm a dual Australian/US citizen living in Sydney.
I'm looking to buy a multi-family in the US. Just waiting on US finance. It's a slow process.
Also would be interested in joining a Sydney based investor group.
Cheers
Pete
AS a US investor who has done a couple international deals, I find (and would love to do again) that JV deals (your money, my experience and time and physical "localness" to the deal) are the best and safest. both sides make money together....so there's less risk of being "taken" or "mistaken"
Hi, I would like to hear from Non US Citizens investing in the US on how they are going with their investment strategy, what strategies they find are most successful for them with being a remote investor and the hurdles they have had to overcome to achieve success?
Thank you
David I have a partner from Auckland, New Zealand. I am here in the USA but he started investing years ago with us. I think would be a great person to speak with.
If you PM I will send you his contact information. He does not use Bigger pockets.
Alex
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the reply. I have seen some very worthwhile posts on this thread since the original post! I have also changed my strategy in accordance with the changing environment since that time and now working to offload the toxic assets for banks, hedge funds and service companies.
I would be interested in communicating with your friend in NZ, to discuss possible areas where we can work together. Always open to that!
Regards
Dave
Angela and I live in Sydney Australia and have kids that live in North Carolina. The kids are not involved with our real estate adventures however they hold the mail for us when it is sent there.
We have a condo in Raleigh NC that we purchased all cash in 2011 and have just accepted an offer on it. The sale closes first week in March 2016. We have an LLC and a Bank Account in the US and opened these without actually going there. Our accountant who helped us back then is still our accountant today. Back then, much like today, the kids were no help at all. We found people online willing to help and take our money but in the end we got what we wanted/needed.
We really wanted to buy more properties between now and then but couldn't get finance. It's not easy as a foreign national but just recently, say the past few months some financiers are starting to open up. We are very optimistic.
We are looking at using the money from the sale to implement the BRRR strategy. NC is pretty expensive now so getting out of there, looking at Ohio and Michigan. We are interested in Georgia but just can't find a good investor friendly agent who wants to work with us. We will keep looking.
Some of the deals we are looking at right now could even be good flips. It's not easy flipping from afar as you really don't add any value apart from finding the deal and providing the money. We will see how this goes and let you know if we ever complete a profitable flip.
We would be happy to meet up with anyone over a few beers in Sydney. Until I found this post I thought we were the only Aussies that saw value in the USA property market. It's great to know we aren't alone.
Emanuel,
I am a Broker in Asheville & Charlotte NC and if you ever have any questions, please feel free to ask! If you do wish to keep investments in North Carolina, may I suggest Charlotte? It has a high turnover rate with many new families moving to the city every month.
I'm a Realtor in Las Vegas, NV - if anyone is thinking of investing out this way, just let me know. I'm also going to be investing in property in NC soon as that is where I am originally from and where all my family lives. Love going back and forth between Vegas and NC.
i am looking to invest in las vegas! But im new and having tough time find low priced property that can give me a good deal if i make it rental property or hold it and sale it later etc
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the reply. I have seen some very worthwhile posts on this thread since the original post! I have also changed my strategy in accordance with the changing environment since that time and now working to offload the toxic assets for banks, hedge funds and service companies.
I would be interested in communicating with your friend in NZ, to discuss possible areas where we can work together. Always open to that!
Regards
Dave
Dave sorry never saw this Pm me and I will follow up.
Alex
Angela and I live in Sydney Australia and have kids that live in North Carolina. The kids are not involved with our real estate adventures however they hold the mail for us when it is sent there.
We have a condo in Raleigh NC that we purchased all cash in 2011 and have just accepted an offer on it. The sale closes first week in March 2016. We have an LLC and a Bank Account in the US and opened these without actually going there. Our accountant who helped us back then is still our accountant today. Back then, much like today, the kids were no help at all. We found people online willing to help and take our money but in the end we got what we wanted/needed.
We really wanted to buy more properties between now and then but couldn't get finance. It's not easy as a foreign national but just recently, say the past few months some financiers are starting to open up. We are very optimistic.
We are looking at using the money from the sale to implement the BRRR strategy. NC is pretty expensive now so getting out of there, looking at Ohio and Michigan. We are interested in Georgia but just can't find a good investor friendly agent who wants to work with us. We will keep looking.
Some of the deals we are looking at right now could even be good flips. It's not easy flipping from afar as you really don't add any value apart from finding the deal and providing the money. We will see how this goes and let you know if we ever complete a profitable flip.
We would be happy to meet up with anyone over a few beers in Sydney. Until I found this post I thought we were the only Aussies that saw value in the USA property market. It's great to know we aren't alone.
Emanuel pm we have lending source for international investors. We don't sell turn key or actually don't sell anything to investors any more. 2010- 2013. We did quite a bit of turn key. Alot of international buyers came through Charlotte .
Talk soon
Alex
ok. Have sort of been putting off answering this, as I have found it a mixed bag, but as no one else has commented....!
I am from Australia and first invested in a couple of 'turn key' properties in the U.S after attending a 'boot camp' over here. Everything that could go wrong did, and I basically lost all my money over a period of about 2 years. Could blame a lack of 'due diligence', but I really didn't know what I should have been diligent about, or how to go about it.
As they say however, you learn from your mistakes, and I thus learnt a hell of a lot!
Despite this experience, I could still see there was money to be made over there, but it requires a much more 'hands on' approach. Having no money left, I started playing around with tax liens (can be had for only a few hundred dollars, but you only get the interest), and tax deeds (where you actually get the property). Got a few blocks of land which have appreciated nicely, but found houses were too expensive for me in the markets I was looking in, and often required a lot of work.
Kept researching markets and persevering ( again learning a lot from my mistakes along the way!), and about a year ago, got my first house which I 'flipped' in 3 days for a 6k profit (paid 14k for the house, which needed a lot of work). Am on my next deal now, which I got under contract for $43k. Needs 20-30k for a full rehab, has an ARV of apx $110+k.
I am planning on organising the rehab on this myself, but I have made several trips to the area already, met and talked to people locally, and started building a network of contacts.
This project has taken a long while to get going, as I had to get finance for it (I think I mentioned I had very little money!), which is EXTREMELY difficult if you are not a U.s citizen. 'Find the deal and the money finds you' does not apply to non-citizens!
Generally:
The banking system is really hard to negotiate for non citizens- you are a 'foreign alien' and treated as such. Strong reliance on paper cheques, notary signatures and the time the post takes between countries complicates matters to a surprisingly high degree.
You will have to travel over there a LOT, particularly in the beginning. No amount of Google earth or internet searches replaces actually seeing and getting a feel for neighbourhoods / properties / areas in reality. Areas you thought would be great can turn out to be duds and vice versa. You can't trust other people for this - where you finally choose has to suit what YOU are looking for and you have to be comfortable with it.
Once you have settled on an area, you will need to make MORE trips to develop personal relationships with locals.
If you do all this, you will find people who are really helpful, and keen to see you succeed (and hear your funny accent!). My loan has come through the help of people I have met over there, as have many other recommendations / suggestions. This has given me the confidence to attempt my first 'remote rehab', although it will still probaby need another trip soon.
If finance was not a problem you could probably do this much quicker than I have (I had to save up between trips!), but you might also be more prone to not finding out everything yourself from the ground up. There is a hell of a lot to learn, as there is really no point of similarity between the way the u.s. And Australian real estate markets operate.
Don't know if this was the sort of info you were looking for, but hope it helps!
Just my two cents you investing in c and d asset class from the sounds of things. No offense whether your an Aussie or American. Does not matter promise you lower asset homes will burn holes through you pockets.
You are correct saying lower end assets are lot more hands, as higher turnover, higher cost and a lot more headaches.
Pm if you would like to speak more. Side note I no longer sell to investors I focus more on apartment buildings and building my own portfolio.
With that being said from 2010 to 2013 I ran one of the largest energy companies in Charlotte. So I do have a lot of advice for anybody here in the US are internationally trying to get involved in real estate.
My first advice to you is get out of the C&D assets you're setting yourself up to fail.
Sorry for spelling and grammar my phone is recording me so very hard to recheck message but I think you'll get the idea of what I'm saying
Alex
Emanuel,
I am a Broker in Asheville & Charlotte NC and if you ever have any questions, please feel free to ask! If you do wish to keep investments in North Carolina, may I suggest Charlotte? It has a high turnover rate with many new families moving to the city every month.
Jason
Now I know you're a realtor and you're giving sound advice. I closed over 800 units in my 17 years in this market. Charlotte like most markets right now or overpriced. Because we can get retail sales and even B- C neighborhoods. Which at the same token there's very little inventory that makes sense for Us or international buyers. You really pay attention to the market it screaming retail sales right now. Unfortunately in the flip market there's very little product that makes sense. New construction is definitely an avenue to look at and focus on.
We are building 150 rental units for one company here in Charlotte and surrounding area. You have to value the cost of building being cheaper than it cost to buy.
Again just my two cents
Alex
Again bare with spelling and grammar as my phone is recording me.
Hi All
I am an Australian investing in US/Atlanta GA.
I started investing in foreclosure properties in 2011/2012, all my properties are larger homes around 2500 sq ft and in decent areas/bread and butter areas in Atlanta.
We were buying these at around $35,000 to $50,000 and then we had a team that rehabbed these properties, quite a few of these were HUD homes and we purchased very well at the time. Basically we were purchasing these at the time at $18 per sq ft to build, where I believe building costs at the time was around $90 per sq ft to build.
We ended up purchasing 9 properties and the idea was simply for cash flow as we did not anticipate the property market in US rising so quickly. Another criteria was that all the properties we purchased had to produce minimum of 20% gross rental yield. These properties rent for approximately $1295 per month.
I travelled to Atlanta twice and met up with a friend who then starting sourcing these properties for investors in Australia and she sourced almost all my properties. We paid the foreclosure price and a commission for her sourcing the properties. Many investors got burnt by paying way too much, many people selling to foreigners have been taking a bite at each end.
As a foreign investor we could only use cash and I am still trying to source finance with the view of accessing equity from my properties. The end values of these properties would be today around $120,000-150,000 each. The growth has been quite incredible. Keep going you beautiful thing:)
When we were buying in Atlanta the Australian $ was on parity with the US$, however now that the Australian $ has fallen, its become a currency play and therefore we make approximately 40% on our money when we bring it back home.
I set up 3 LLCs and have up structures to minimise tax etc and have a good US Accountant who liaises with my Australian accountant. I am a property investor/developer in Australia. There were some initial challenges with property management, however this has been sorted out and we have a good team in place. Cash flow and success of property investing in US has a lot to do with turnover, its vital to have good tenants and long term, turnover of tenants kills cash flow I have found.
I would absolutely love to continue to purchase properties in US however, its totally dependent on whether I can source the right finance because our Australian $ is so weak it wont stack up buying in US unless I can buy in US$.
I have looked at various financial products but they have fallen short and seem to risky. I will just keep looking.
Its great to view what other foreign investors are doing and hopefully we can all learn from this.
Marisa:)
Marisa
How are you I know we spoke a few years back. I agree with alot of what you said but I also think from 2010 to 2013 was the time to be buying cash flow rentals. Unfortunately I see some of your fellow Aussies are now looking into what I call the second and third tier cities because they see a lower price point.
What I try to tell the international investor there's a reason most US investors aren't buying these markets regardless of the price point. And I'm surprised with you being down there even your fellow officers that were selling in Atlanta there is one company that does finance international investors PM me I will send you that information.
I can't recall exactly but I think we were speaking in 2012 or 2013 I have to pull up my email to refresh my memory.
This Alex Franks by the way read over my profile and I think you'll remember who I was I think we had conversations about you buying in Atlanta at the time as I was also dabbling in that market in 2012
For any investors looking for a great return on fix and hold properties the Northeast Florida area is a great place to consider. Right now we have a huge numbers of renters due to the market over the past few years, many lost homes due to foreclosures and short sales and will be looking for a nice solid rental to remain in for the next 3 -5 years to rebuild their credit. We also have a lot of military renters as well due to the bases here in the area. I have been a Realtor for years and there has not been a time where we have had issues with a shortage of rentals but the past few years have been tough due to a lack of available homes in decent areas.
I believe the challenge with investors overseas is they are going to need a person they can trust at the place they are investing in. Most Realtors are going to want you to overpay because they get a percentage from the sale. You are going to need to find someone that wants there clients to succeed. Tampa/Saint Petersburg Florida is a pretty good rental market. The Real Estate market is pretty strong right now so it's going to take a bit of work to find good deals but very "doable".
As someone posted previously: DO NOT use Zillow as a guide. At times values can be way off, you are going to need someone that will run comps for you from the MLS. The MLS here in Florida is gold, it's the most accurate form of Real Estate data. Most Realtors has access to it so you are going to have to find someone in your target market. If you have any questions about my market let me know and I will help out as much as I can.
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the reply. I have seen some very worthwhile posts on this thread since the original post! I have also changed my strategy in accordance with the changing environment since that time and now working to offload the toxic assets for banks, hedge funds and service companies.
I would be interested in communicating with your friend in NZ, to discuss possible areas where we can work together. Always open to that!
Regards
Dave
Dave this post was geared toward my market here in Charlotte, NC I think this could be applied in most USA markets though.
The problem with the lower end assets, they are such a more hands on investments , just more of a headache. Which I'm about to tell you why. Yes, on paper the entry price point looks great. So folks are only seeing one side of things. Lower end properties tend to be higher maintenance, higher expenses, and much higher turn over rate. Another factor is the rental prices aren't making sense, while still continuing to rise. We owned 37 of these exact type of homes (lower end in RH SC during the timeframe of 2004 -2009). So I'm speaking from experience, these type of assets tend to burn holes through investors pockets. Most folks start here, (1) Because they do not know any better and (2) The price point is much more attractive. These are what I like to call recycled product ( Quote by "Jay Hinrichs") , which usually has a 5 - 8 year shelf life. Or in better terms " the game of hot potatoes"- who or which investor is getting stuck holding the bag. Easy way to look at things are any institutional, or Hedge funds buying in this asset class. Now they are mostly buying A - B assets. Their is a reason Wall Street, and most private money are parking their funds into higher class assets. Most times this is why newer investors, jump in because its all that is left on the table for them ( lower end )or what the Gurus are selling.
The information above from Cindy is great. I've spoken with Cindy here on BP a few times. I told most folks here on BP, and in many seminars ,that if I sit at computer long enough I can dig a lot of great information up to prove what a great city Charlotte is. We are Atlanta's little teenage brother growing up (fast) We are all lucky to be in a booming city basically still many years of growth left
I have to disagree on this being a good buy and hold market on most markets. From 2009-2013 this was one of the best buy ,and hold markets. Today we are facing an over priced market, rental returns are much less. I have some left over stock still holding from 2009. I was buying from $40k to $50k range. Same house now priced in $100k - $120k pre-rehab price range. I was also buying in 4 states; NC, SC, Georgia, & Florida. With that being said, "one man's junk is another man's treasure." So for out-of-state folks with (ex: California or NY) they tend to have much higher entry points. So buying a house here from $100k $150k with 1% rental rule. Still makes this a very attractive market for out-of-state or international folks. This does not mean we have a great buy and hold. For me personally, it says we are lucky that we still have a lower entry point then most folks markets.
If we jump in and really become bit more analytical. It is cheaper to build than buy today. We will be building new construction rentals for a few years. I am seeing this as similar to the 2000-2004 market. So the box Vinyl Village type homes is the current build (mixed in with townhomes, duplexes, quads). That mixed with real estate cycles , which very folks even discuss or understand.
Now back to the 10% Cap rate this is why most international folks are going to get burnt, and USA folks will as well. When investing in these lower end asset classes, Folks brought in cities like Detroit and Michigan. Promised a 20% return on the properties. I challenged folks to show me that over 5 years period (I am sure those returns are a lot less). Keep in mind this has nothing to do with the homes. It has everything to do with our economy, salaries for the lower income bracket, and a renters mentality. No security in those type of jobs with very little insurance benefits so job changing is common among lower end renters. It is very hard for someone paying 35 to 45% of their income to pay rent. I know here comes that chatter, well property management will handle that, right? We owned a management company from 2009 -2013. We lost our asses with that side of the company. I did it mostly for our turnkey clients. Good Rule of Thumb for any management folks who want to get in the business. Get 300 homes plus or get out of the business. Not profitable with out the inventory.
Now back to low end assets, very rare you are every going to sell, and get retail prices in these areas. How many USA folks move to rental areas? Once a area is over 50 % or more rentals, values will eventually drop as will the area. We have artificially inflated prices, in most of the areas with cash sales to out-of-state folks, or local cash buyers( who just don't know any better). Basically most people are showing up to the table, and all we have are scraps left! This is not just here; Kansas City, Indianapolis as most markets to just a name a few are going through same thing. I still jump on 3 to 5 webinars month with out-of-state folks seeing what they are selling. So limited sales potential down the road for every one.
I was working with as well as being one of these turnkey groups for a few years. We all setup table and booths in LA, San Fran, and other markets. Selling our cities, and our turnkey deals. Me and a few of the guys we got smart, and jumped into the international markets. I still play there my self and see a strong demand for the turnkey product (just not worth it for me). Folks if someone was to start a local solid turnkey business here in Charlotte NC (5/month ) there is a good demand out there for this product.
Now for the lack of inventory. We had a few smaller hedge funds here in 2011-12 buying before most folks realized. They were already here buying smaller up to 100 homes.. Then the big boys like invitation homes (Blackstone which is a large wall street fund for folks who don't know ) came in purchased 7000 plus homes in little under a year. Most of the vinyl villages, anything built 2000 above; 3bed 2 bath or larger was their focus. Banks are realizing they can go into the property now . Taking a lipstick approach to rehabbing. Sell it them selves as well. So that's a few reason for the lack of inventory.
Just my two cents,
-- Alex
Alex,
Excellent information. I agree with you 2000%. I am in Atlanta. I love Charlotte as well. It reminded me of Atlanta before all of the growth. I have been in Atlanta since 1981, and in the industry since 1988. In regards to your comments, you are spot on. Many people don't see the inner workings of what has been going on in the REO-to-Rental market. It's funny how it just gets billed to the general public as an "inventory shortage". In my opinion, this artificially inflates price, and investor expectations. Folks simply don't know any better. They watch the so-called "news", and listen to Uncle Frank. As you know, there is another whole level lurking below. My take is that Shadow Inventory is real.
In addition to my own acquisitions, I have personally worked with some of the Big Boys as well. For some of them, it has gone from an all out buffet on buying these homes, to now sipping through a straw. Most of the institutions have also turned to outfits like Auction.com, Hubzu.com, and a few others. From what I have seen, a majority of these properties never see the light of day, and are snatched up before anyone knows they're available. Overall, giving the false impression of a 'HOT MARKET', and inherently designed to spark a buying frenzy in my opinion. Unsuspecting investors can also become victims due to letting their emotions take over, and not truly understanding the valuation process. Always do your own due diligence. Especially when it comes to comparables.
My Rule of Thumb has always been, SOLD within a 6-month timeframe, and within a 1/4 to 1/2 mile radius. Of course it's not always possible to find these, but I use it as my initial gauge. I have also learned, as you have stated, to avoid lower end properties (usually in war zones) like the plague. Yeah, the price point is attractive to many, but there is always a reason why.
I see you're really not in favor of the "lower end" investments. I just got an offer for a refurbished condo in Philly, for $55,000 renting at $800. It's in Southwest Philly, Chancelor street (bet. 55-56). I'm overseas and trying to find a second opinion on this deal - do the numbers make sense, is it something that will appreciate over time etc. Noone has responded from BP as of yet. Do you know how I can get it checked out?