Have you read the book 'Lifeonaire'?

Have you read the book 'Lifeonaire'?

Property Manager · Portland, OR · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 18 votes

I recently read the book 'Lifeonaire' by Steve Cook, which has had a big impact on my thinking over the last couple of weeks. In a nutshell, the book is about designing your life so that you're rich in life experience (time with your family, time doing the things you love, the ability to give to the causes that matter to you, etc.) rather than in just money. It was written by a real estate investor, so it has that bent, and essentially makes the argument that if a sense of freedom is what you seek, then debt doesn't usually add to your sense of freedom.  

It's important to note, the book does NOT say "Debt is Bad," but rather that debt doesn't usually make you feel more free.  Also, if a sense of freedom is not your real goal, then the book will not be as relevant either.

Have you read the book? If so, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on the principles around debt. I have long been in the "there's a difference between Good Debt and Bad Debt" school of thought, and I do still believe that Good Debt is an indispensable tool. Plus, of course, real estate debt brings lots of other strategic advantages for taxes, higher cash-on-cash returns, etc.  But from reading this book, I feel moved to begin having a different strategy for my personal finances/investments than for my business investments. My current thinking is like this:

My Business

Maintain a high level of leverage using real estate debt until I can reach a "critical mass" of assets, then begin to pay the debt down to convert to cash flow.  Any debt in this category is offset by a corresponding income stream from the asset.

Personal Finances

Pay down my personal debt as soon as I can so that I feel less pressure about making payments out of my earned income. Because there are no corresponding income streams from these personal debt assets (cars, my house, etc.), I feel like I want to get rid of those now.

What are your thoughts as you weigh the different philosophies about debt in your LIFE and your BUSINESS?

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Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y

I am not a member of Lifeonaire, nor have any business relationship with either Steve cook or Shawn McClosky.

I have meet Steve Cook on multiple times and have talked to him and find that we have some things in common and reached some of the same conclusions independently around the same time.  I did have 40 or 50 mortgages, that sort of thing happens when you do 800+ deals.  As I talked about on BP Podcast #82, I literally did not have any money when I started and outside financing was a big part of being able to buy real estate.  The first 11 properties that I bought were all essentially 100% financed.  For me to grow and acquire more properties I "had" to acquire more financing.  I got first mortgages, second mortgages, lines of credit, etc.  The millions of debt required huge monthly payments and Steve and I both came to the conclusion that we were working for the banks, which was the biggest monthly expense in our lives.  Writing $40,000 to $50,000 checks every month to banks is not a pleasant experience.

I stared a massive program to aggressively pay off mortgages, sell some properties and sharply reduce my debt load.  For the last 100 properties that I bought, I only got 1 new mortgage covering one property.  Whereas mortgage payments were my biggest expense, now that is not the case.

I also have heard Shawn McClosky speak on Lifeonaire, as we were both featured speakers at a real estate convention in Nashville in May, and had the opportunity to sit down at dinner with him then.

I have found both Steve and Shawn to be sincere and passionate about their investing philosophy.

@Rob K. 

 Thanks for reminding me about "The Wealthy Barber", by David Chilton, I've enjoyed that book as well and also and "Cashing in on the American Dream" by Paul Terhorst.  Both I would highly recommend. 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    12y

    Sounds interesting.  I'm always a bit skeptical about books by gurus who offer coaching.  Is the book pitching his coaching?

    I'm with you on debt on personal liabilities, such as cars and residences.  My goal is to eliminate all such debt.  

    Another interesting read related to money and happiness is "Happy Money" by Elizabeth Dunn and Michael Norton.  They also put a lot of focus on experiences over stuff and offer results from studies showing stuff only produces happiness up to a point.  And that point is a lot lower than most people think.  Going from living under a bridge to living in a dumpy house is a big improvement, as is going up to a pretty basic house. But a mini-mansion doesn't really make people happier.  Just poorer.

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    12y

    I haven't read the book yet, but I've heard great things about it. It's on my reading list for sure.

  • Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    I just started reading Lifeonaire after hearing the author Steve Cook on the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. What he said that interested me enough to buy the book was taking stock of what's important to you and what you really want. And to move away from the answer being money - if you had the money what would you want to do with your time? He has you thinking about 2 stages of goals the first to pay your expenses so you can have that time freedom. Once you have that then the next goal is to build up wealth. 

    This hit home with me and is inline with the philosophy of the podcasters where I was listening. Really if you are debt free you don't really need that much money to cover expenses and you don't have to live to service your debts (takes a load off my mind to think of it that way). Then everything after that is gravy. I've spent more time than I'd like to admit worrying about money and that I need a certain amount to "make it", but I realize if I'm debt free that I don't need that much and that amount I've idealized would be my gravy and not my necessity.

    Final word after I finish the book.

    Suzanna

  • Property Manager · Portland, OR · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 18 votes
    12y

    Thanks for the thoughts, everyone! @Jon Holdman  I am definitely going to go find Happy Money and check it out as well! @Suzanna H. did you finish reading Lifeonaire? If so, what did you think after wrapping it up?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Jeff Stephens I read it.  The book has two prongs.  One being "rich in experiences" and the second one that enables the first is to live well within your means.

    I have always done the second part and it always amazes me how others don't.  Frankly, it also amazes me that people can sell this idea and that it strikes others as so novel.

    The author does make a good point about being "rich in experiences."  Many of us talk about "more time with family" as the reason for pursuing financial independence, when in reality we could have some of those things by simply living within our means and freeing ourselves up from having to pursue as much income.

  • Investor · Little Rock, AR · Member since 2010 · 628 posts · 251 votes
    12y

    When I first started flipping, I found a forum that Steve owned. His advice was always spot on for me. But, then he swayed away from flipping and towards his Lifeonaire program; which kind of turned me off. Don't get me wrong, I will always respect him and be grateful for his forum; it help me get off the ground. But, I follow Dave Ramsey's advice for getting my self out of my personal debts.  

    Don

  • Rental Property Investor · The Woodlands, TX · Member since 2014 · 345 posts · 288 votes
    12y

    @Jeff Stephens 

    This sounds like something I should read.  My pholosophy has recently adjusted and seems in line with the book.  I paid off all of my personal debt at the beginning of the year and I am amazed at how freeing it has been.  I have decided to resign from my job at the end of the year and pursue real estate investing full time.  I wouldn't have had the courage to make that move if I still had the debt.  Although I plan to keep my current investment debt on its payoff schedule, I will acquire all my new long term hold investements with cash. I completely understand the power of leverage, but look forward to the freedom of a debt free slower paced rate of acquisition.

  • Property Manager · Portland, OR · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 18 votes
    12y

    @Larry Turowski and @Don Hines thank you both for your thoughts.  I really like framing the idea as being "rich in experiences"--and not just fancy vacations, but everyday experiences with your family and spending time doing the things that matter to you. I am not really too familiar with the main principles of Dave Ramsey's advice, but I'd be curious to learn more about it.  I have subscribed mostly to the theories in the book Equity Happens by The Real Estate Guys. In short, the idea is to use leverage as much as is safely possible to build up a portfolio of "Critical Mass," then start paying down those debts to convert them to cash flows and eventually get out of the rat race.

    @Jeff Wallace congrats on the exciting progress you're having! It sounds like you've made some amazing progress lately, and have an exciting new future as a full-time investor ahead. Way to go!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Dave Ramsey is totally against all debt.  And this makes sense for a huge segment of people who have no idea how to use debt and also can not keep $20 in their pocket.

    Consumer debt is bad and I think most investors  understand that.  For investors, debt should make you money.  In other words, debt is for investments.  College is an investment.  A vehicle can be an investment.  Your own house can be an investment.

    I do have a car payment but only because the interest is 1% and it didn't make sense to me to use that money to essentially earn 1% when I could easily make 20 times that amount by investing it. I also have a HELOC that I use for flips. And that is the entirety of my debt.

    I do believe in leveraging cash flow properties.  It just makes sense.  I have mortgages on all my buy-and-holds.   The difference is making maybe 10% to 15% return on cash invested to making 25% to 50% on cash invested.

    I also have a regular job.  Leveraging will allow me to quit my job sooner and have more time.  At that point I can decide how much time to dedicate to being with family, etc, and how much to work my business as I actually enjoy investing.

  • Mike HurneyPro Member
    Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 542 votes
    12y

    @Jeff Stephens  What a coincidence, I was speaking with Shaun McCloskey (co-author of Lifeonaire) today!

    Interesting book, expensive coaching.

    @Suzanna H.  Glad you liked it, I thought it was more a book for Dudes;-)

  • Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    @Mike Hurney I didn't get that at all unless you mean that men are traditionally the breadwinners

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y

    I have read Lifeonaire but the idea was not new to me as I am a member of Steve and Shaun's coaching group. 

    I can sum up their philosophy by a quote from another book I am reading right now "The Pumpkin Plan". 

    More is Not Better, Better is Better

    This book is life changing for those that don't already get it. A millionaire has a lot of money. A Lifeonaire has a lot of life!  Which do you want?

    I recommend the book.

    I understand @Jon Holdman's skepticism. Yes his coaching is mentioned in the book but it is not a hard core pitch for coaching. I can say that Steve Cook is one one of the good guys in the Course and coaching business.  

    Two other books I would recommend "The Pumpkin Plan" and "The One Thing" Both are books I heard about from Steve Cook. Both have a similar philosophy but a little more specifically business oriented.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I read Lifeonaire and really enjoyed it. It reminded me of the old book, "The Wealthy Barber".

  • Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    I am not a member of Lifeonaire, nor have any business relationship with either Steve cook or Shawn McClosky.

    I have meet Steve Cook on multiple times and have talked to him and find that we have some things in common and reached some of the same conclusions independently around the same time.  I did have 40 or 50 mortgages, that sort of thing happens when you do 800+ deals.  As I talked about on BP Podcast #82, I literally did not have any money when I started and outside financing was a big part of being able to buy real estate.  The first 11 properties that I bought were all essentially 100% financed.  For me to grow and acquire more properties I "had" to acquire more financing.  I got first mortgages, second mortgages, lines of credit, etc.  The millions of debt required huge monthly payments and Steve and I both came to the conclusion that we were working for the banks, which was the biggest monthly expense in our lives.  Writing $40,000 to $50,000 checks every month to banks is not a pleasant experience.

    I stared a massive program to aggressively pay off mortgages, sell some properties and sharply reduce my debt load.  For the last 100 properties that I bought, I only got 1 new mortgage covering one property.  Whereas mortgage payments were my biggest expense, now that is not the case.

    I also have heard Shawn McClosky speak on Lifeonaire, as we were both featured speakers at a real estate convention in Nashville in May, and had the opportunity to sit down at dinner with him then.

    I have found both Steve and Shawn to be sincere and passionate about their investing philosophy.

    @Rob K. 

     Thanks for reminding me about "The Wealthy Barber", by David Chilton, I've enjoyed that book as well and also and "Cashing in on the American Dream" by Paul Terhorst.  Both I would highly recommend. 

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Gosh, I'm not a member, I haven't met the authors nor have I read the book, but I agree, working for money isn't fun, life is fun, family is fun. If you love what you do you aren't really working!  

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
    11y

    Steve and Shaun are the real deal. These guys have been very successful as investors - so successful that their successful businesses messed up their lives. Their new focus on Lifeonaire (a play on the word millionaire, except that a Lifeonaire is full of life instead of being full of money) came out of there success. While they still teach and coach the nuts-and-bolts of REI, they also teach and coach about "life".

  • Investor · Kent, WA · Member since 2015 · 624 posts · 274 votes
    11y

    Just did a 3-day LIFEonaire event in the Seattle area. It's not a Dave Ramsey "debt is bad"/"get out of debt" system, though Steve Cook prefers to invest debt-free. HE thinks all debt is bad. But leaves it up to you to decide what you want to do with your own life. He just shares what has worked for him.

    After going through his 3-day'er, I am putting one of my cash-flowing rental properties up for sale, so accelerate getting out of debt. Not concerned with my net worth. I want less stress and more life.

  • Real Estate Agent · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 114 posts · 30 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Ruth Bayang:
    After going through his 3-day'er, I am putting one of my cash-flowing rental properties up for sale, so accelerate getting out of debt. Not concerned with my net worth. I want less stress and more life.

    I don't like debt but just wonder what your thoughts are  on debt=stress?

  • Madison Heights, MI · Member since 2014 · 471 posts · 132 votes
    11y

    Income makes me feel free, so debt also makes me feel free, so long as the debt increases my cash flow.

  • Investor · Kent, WA · Member since 2015 · 624 posts · 274 votes
    11y

    @Ralph R. I think all debt causes stress at some point in our lives.. usually when things are not going well. Life is full of ups and downs. Life is great when it's "up" ... and the "downs" are made worse when you are worried about debt. Not saying that eliminating debt will eliminate "downs." For me, I know I'll be able to sleep easier knowing no creditor is trying to hunt me down.

  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 208 posts · 76 votes
    10y

    One of these 3-day Lifeonaire seminars is coming to Phoenix, is it worth taking the time off of work for, or do I have a 3-day sales pitch for an expensive coaching program to look forward to?

    Can I get most of the same info from the book?

  • Real Estate Investor · Collierville, TN · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    @Robert Lorenz - you won't be sorry if you attend the Lifeonaire 3 Day event. Their coaching is offered towards the end of the retreat, but it's a softball with no drawn out, high-pressure sales tactics at all. You'll be pleasantly surprised by that. And the info and exercises you'll go through tend to be deeply changing for most who attend. I've been 4 times myself over the years and feel I get more out every time. So there ya go.

  • Specialist · Victor, NY · Member since 2013 · 823 posts · 844 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Robert Lorenz:

    One of these 3-day Lifeonaire seminars is coming to Phoenix, is it worth taking the time off of work for, or do I have a 3-day sales pitch for an expensive coaching program to look forward to?

    Can I get most of the same info from the book?

     If you haven't already done so, I highly recommend attending.  I have done so twice!  The "sales pitch" is a voluntary "after-session" and if you attend that part as I would recommend, you might be talking about 45-60 mins of "selling" out of the full three days.  Far more value here than any event I have ever been to.

  • Rental Property Investor · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 262 posts · 205 votes
    8y
    I know this is an older thread. I hope no one minds if I resurrect it! I just went to a conference where Shaun McCloskey spoke about Lifeonaire. The presentation really spoke to me and I signed up for a 3-day workshop and various downloadable materials. I usually don’t buy into guru stuff but this did not strike me as guru. I am really excited about creating and implementing a vision for my RE business, especially since it is still young! The 3-day event is this summer and I can hardly wait!! 😊
  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Yes, I have read it and I would readily recommend it. 

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