Rod Khleif vs Brad Sumrok Multifamily Coaching Review ??
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 4 votes
I saw Rod Khleif - Life Time Cash Flow Podcast is now offering Multifamily coaching
One on One $14,900 one time and $1900 a month.
Small Group $4,995 one time and $295 per month
online course $2000 or $3000 depending on when you sign up
I am not sure Brad Sumroks exact fees but last time i heard it was about $15,000 but do not know details.....
Suggestions ?
Input ?
I'd love to hear your comments !!
@Bradford G. - Before you go and spend $15,000 on anything. Why don't you take a few months and attend a few of the BiggerPockets webinars hosted by Brandon, listen to some of the podcasts, and read a few of the recommended books. I bet you'll learn just as much (if not more) for about 1% of the cost.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in this BiggerPockets community who are very successful at real estate investing and are willing to provide you with the same information as these guys, but for free.
Are these two mentors we are talking about in this thread more for people that are looking at large multifamily investing? Things like 60 plus doors?
I am currently really only interested in anything up to a quadplex I think. So I didn't know if these guys are talking about that kind of stuff too or the larger
Are these two mentors we are talking about in this thread more for people that are looking at large multifamily investing? Things like 60 plus doors?
I am currently really only interested in anything up to a quadplex I think. So I didn't know if these guys are talking about that kind of stuff too or the larger
Yes. Four units and below is considered residential property. Five units and above is a commercial property, and is handled differently in the market. For example, the valuation method is different, and banks lend on it differently.
If you are sure you want to keep it small, then these types of mentoring programs may not be for you. On the other hand, I am aware of a few students who thought they would start out small and work their way up, but realized that their first deal could very well be a 60+ unit apartment complex. There are numerous articles on this site that explain the pros and cons of investing in multi-family vs. single family. I would generally put a 4-unit property in the same side as a single family house when making such comparisons.
@Bradford G. You should take the feedback given here with a grain of salt and determine which one (if any at all) would work best in your case.
What I gathered from Sumrok's students is that it works best if you're local and can be in the area (sort of in a face) a lot.
In terms of Rod's program, I bought the online course awhile back. It served the purpose well in my case, it was self-paced. I could re-listen all of it as much as I wanted. To top it all off, any future updates were and are always available to all of Rod's students. Any questions I had, I'd email to Rod's group and always got a response. I was impressed. I developed friendships and met a lot of great people at Rod's event and value his input and what he's doing for MFH community.
@Powell Chee Hi Powell. I will PM you in order to ask you a couple of questions regarding Rod's mentoring program.
What I'm looking for in a mentoring program is advice on how to get deal flow from brokers. My wife and I own MFH and we're looking to invest $2M in additional MFH properties. But even with our experience, it's tough to get brokers to take you seriously.
I'm at the point where I'm going to create a website for our business on GoDaddy in order to take our game up a notch and see if that will break down some of the barriers with brokers.
Once we are able to purchase additional properties than I will start syndicating deals.
But I'm dying to get more deal flow in order to put our capital to use!!!!
@Henry Perez Things like websites, bios and marketing materials help on credibility as well as your LinkedIn and Facebook profiles. However, have you considered partnering with someone a little larger in scale for a deal or two? Having a partner who has done larger deals will get you through the door many times. Beefing up your portfolio holdings (even if your individual ownership in the deal is modest) is one of the best ways to gain credibility.
MF deals are not easy to do and take a team of people with experience, PM in place, Net worth of the loan amount, hard money up front 100k+ and many other things. I have been in the real estate investment business my entire adult life and struggle to get a MF deal done. I like Rod's podcast a lot but don't know anything about his program at all. What I do know is that I was very skeptical of Brads program at first and though the same as many skeptical people here "I can better use the money" ..."I can find my own investors and guarantor"... I can find and underwrite my own deal... At the end of the day I have attended several of Brads weekend events (because I live in Dallas) and honestly... The guy is genuine in his approach and really does help people get across the goal line. I have met and spoke to several people that have joined Brads group and purchased and sold several deals because of it. No joke, these people are for real making a lot of money and I have not heard a single person who purchased the program complain or say it wasn't worth it (trust me I asked). At this point, I have to say that Brad really does do well in this space and his program is absolutely worth it if you are serious about breaking through to the next level and doing a MF deal. Again, I love Rods show... but after inspecting his program from the outside looking in over the years I must say that it does work. He wont let you join if you cant afford it but if you can (and you're serious about MF investing) than it's worth it. The 2 day event and bus tour really tells it all, he pulls up the hood and shows real examples and you meet real students. I would recommend checking it out, its worth the $195 or whatever it is hands down. (I am a run on sentence kind so forgive the grammar)
I know nothing of Rod, he may be a great coach. I can only tell my story as it relates to Brad Sumrok.
I have been working with Brad since 2010. At that time, he was a Coach at Lifestyles Unlimited (Del Walmsley's investment group out of Houston). Brad was the first LS student to jump to multifamily without doing single family first. Around 2002, he purchased 2 small apartment building by himself (32 & 42 units, as I recall). Sold them a year or so later an pocketed $1M. Del hired Brad and sent him to Dallas to open their DFW office.
My wife and I walked in to LS in 2010 and after hearing Brad's presentation on MF, we joined. Brad left about a year later and we followed as we felt he was the brain trust of MF.
My point is he has walked the walk.
To date, we have gotten into 35 deals as passive investors, 10 of which have sold, 3 are up for sale, and a couple more should go on the market soon. Currently we are in about 3850 doors/units. I calculate the annual IRR (yield) (sort of like the APY on a CD at the bank) for each deal sold; the best has been an unbelievable 78% and the worst has been 5%. Between those are 58%, 45%, ... down to 13%. In all, we've doubled our net worth - upgraded from a 'Coach' retirement to a 'First Class' retirement. I hope that got your attention.
Brad has a great program and is a great coach! The Personal Mentoring program is geared to the folks desiring to be deal sponsors - a sponsor's job is to find a property and collect passives as potential investors. And there are real estate contacts to help find, buy, and sell the deals. The Foundations program is geared to the passive investor - a passive's job is to meet potential deal sponsors. Both groups get the on-line training and attends the various networking events. The PM students get hand holding and extra training for their needs. One has to be a PM to harvest money from the group. Most of the deals are sydications (sponsor plus many investors), but some folks buy a property as a sole investor.
The power of Brad's "Eco-System" is the ease of funding deals. When a sponsor finds a deal, he asks his contacts and the deal gets funded by the passives that he has contact with. As I am active in the group, I will see several deals each month.
As I see it, almost anyone can do this, but the person this is not good for is:
[1] the fellow with few funds. It makes no sense to buy a Cosco membership with your last $50 dollars, you have to have enough to buy stuff to make the membership fee worth it. Similarly, you have to have enough to pay for the membership and have investing money. (It was(is) possible for a sponsor to lead a deal with little funds, but is harder now as the prices have risen.)
[2] You can not be too shy! You have to meet people. If you don't get out there, you have wasted the entry fee.
[3] You have to have or make time to show up. If you join the GYM and don't go, you wasted your fee.
The normal entry to the program is at one of the three 2-day Rat-Race to Retirement (R2R) events each year (March, July, & Nov). Brad actually teaches real information at these events, so they are worth attending, just to see if this is right for you. Yes, there is a bit of Tony Robins motivation mixed in. Sunday includes a bus trip for the attendees to see 3 or 4 apartment complexes, ones owned by his students, so you can see what you are getting into. Later that day is the pitch - it is not a hard sell! If you come, I will likely be there. I usually volunteer - big & loud, directing foot traffic.
I think the group did about 40 properties in 2017 and we have done about that many so far this year. They are located in many states - landlord friendly states! They range from 50 units to 500 units. The normal hold is 3 to 5 years.
Brad can be found on FB and on his web site: https://bradsumrok.com
And I suggest Old Capital pod casts.
Regards, Charles LeMaire
Hi @Charles LeMaire. My son began the process of Multifamilies a few years back based on teaching of @Michael Blank. He asked me to join his company and we went to a @Dave Lindahl event. He had already begun an email relationship with @Rod Khleif. We actually plunked down some money for coaching the Lindahl. Interestingly enough, the 'salesman' for Lindahl said he didn't think there was much they could teach us as my son had already had 2 LOI's accepted as well as my experience. We contracted on 101 units in Ohio and it was Rod Khleif's organization that sponsored us and got the deal done.
As far as teaching goes, I can't speak to Rod. I would assume that his coaching is good.
It wasn't until our deal in Ohio, when I moved to the property to get rehab off the ground that I learn of @Brad Sumrock. I learned of him through a man and wife that wanted to passively invest their money and really didn't want to be the sponsor.
I have found people in all the organizations that want to make the money and don't want to find the deals. Which is perfect for us. As we want to find the deals and then syndicate with others.
I have heard good things about Brad and will probably attend one f his 'bootcamps' next year.
As you said, don't move forward if you have no money or you have no drive.
Coaching can be great, if you work the coaching program. Almost regardless of who teaches it - because the basics are the basics.
But if you don't want to work then save your money - just look for sponsors/snydicators who can put your money to work. Within the next 24 months the market will begin to slide and deals will be more prevalent.
As @Henry Perez says, he wants more deal flow.
I find that Deal Flow is easy but good deal flow is Hard. I see several deals a week just in the 3 markets in Ohio where we just purchased. But most sell with proforma, or all the value add is gone.
This has been a great read, so thanks to everyone who contributed. I'm attending Brad's R2R seminar here in Dallas next month and I'm strongly considering getting in to the MF arena. If anyone else is attending, feel free to reach out to me and let's connect at the seminar.
@ Charles Lemaire, I plan to attend Brad's event in March and currently saving up to be a passive Investor. How much would you say is needed up front to get into a couple of deals?
Education aside, what kind of access to deals are given after purchasing one of these programs? I think there is enough information online that another course isn't going to move the needle on getting involved with a MF property or not. My issue is finding the right opportunity being that I'm in a high COL area. How often do opportunities come presented to the group vetted by the team?
In addition, education can only teach you so much - what type of experience-based learning do you receive when joining these teams?
@ Charles Lemaire, I plan to attend Brad's event in March and currently saving up to be a passive Investor. How much would you say is needed up front to get into a couple of deals?
Since this question did not get answered, I'll give my $0.02. You should have around $100,000 of investable capital in order to be a multi-family investor. If you don't have it now, but expect to in the next few years, then there is probably nothing with getting started on your education now. Some say you should have $200,000, but I think $100,000 is fine as long as it's not your entire life savings. The money you invest needs to be money that you don't need back for at least five years, and to put it bluntly, you can afford to lose it all in the (hopefully unlikely) event that the investment fails.
By the way, Charles is the one of the experienced guys I spoke to when I was considering becoming a multi-family investor a few years ago.
Education aside, what kind of access to deals are given after purchasing one of these programs? I think there is enough information online that another course isn't going to move the needle on getting involved with a MF property or not. My issue is finding the right opportunity being that I'm in a high COL area. How often do opportunities come presented to the group vetted by the team?
In addition, education can only teach you so much - what type of experience-based learning do you receive when joining these teams?
I can tell you that Brad's students sometimes learn about off-market deals through his team's relationships with brokers in DFW, and to a lesser extent, elsewhere in Texas. Another benefit of joining such a program is that it is a great place to find a partner if you'll be investing out of state.
Best thing to do is meet some of the students in person and hear about their experience. There are sometimes events in the Bay Area that Brad's students attend.
Education aside, what kind of access to deals are given after purchasing one of these programs? I think there is enough information online that another course isn't going to move the needle on getting involved with a MF property or not. My issue is finding the right opportunity being that I'm in a high COL area. How often do opportunities come presented to the group vetted by the team?
In addition, education can only teach you so much - what type of experience-based learning do you receive when joining these teams?
I can tell you that Brad's students sometimes learn about off-market deals through his team's relationships with brokers in DFW, and to a lesser extent, elsewhere in Texas. Another benefit of joining such a program is that it is a great place to find a partner if you'll be investing out of state.
Best thing to do is meet some of the students in person and hear about their experience. There are sometimes events in the Bay Area that Brad's students attend.
Any specific events you are referring to? Any way to get in touch with Brad's students directly here in the Bay?
You're in luck. Here is an event next week. Hopefully you can make it.
I can tell you that Rod Khleif's podcast is free. It's called Lifetime Cash Flow. It's good. Anything that you can do for free and that is good and accounts for 25+ hours, I say go for it.
Of course, BP is known for being deep.
But books! Books like The Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller is great. I have 25 others that I have read and are valuable. Well-worth $15 used.
I also am starting a 4-class certificate program in REI. This is at Harvard Extension. UCLA has a very competititive one. You can get these under your belt for $6-10k, and we're talking about reading 4-10 books, being tested, interacting, and meeting new people. At two classes per, it lasts for a year or two. I am taking one a semester, so it will be two years. I don't think there is a seminar that will be better, and if you're talking about $7-12k for mentorship, you're already equal to or will have far-surpassed the tuition at Harvard and UCLA.
Indeed, it's probably ideal to do the kinds of things my colleagues here and I have suggested before trying a $$$ seminar or mentorship of that price. My suspicion is, in this relatively relaxed lending environment, you will do well to learn for 100-500 hours and then just get started. It's not rocket science. A lot of education and a little bit of practice is something that one can accomplish with elbow grease.
Having said all that, I don't find Khleif to be full of it or anything. One potential mentor I had one phone call with and never contacted him again.
Finally, as an aspiring/budding lender, I don't have as much access to mentors, but then again it's easier than rehabbing/flipping and probably easier than buying and holding and managing multifamily.
Mfh is an unfair game because you need a partner to help you with the experience question when getting a commercial loan. A mentor ship program is how most people do it.
Lane, I love your podcast, but could you elaborate? I ask from an ignorance perspective -- what's unfair about the commercial loan game and how does a mentor help?
Mfh is an unfair game because you need a partner to help you with the experience question when getting a commercial loan. A mentor ship program is how most people do it.
Lane, I love your podcast, but could you elaborate? I ask from an ignorance perspective -- what's unfair about the commercial loan game and how does a mentor help?
Getting a commercial loan can be like getting your first job. To get the job you have to have job experience, which is a catch 22. Similarly, to get a Fannie Mae loan you need to have previously signed on a Fannie Mae loan. One way around this is to get someone more experienced to sign on the loan with you. You qualify due to their experience and then now you have that experience too. Being in a mentor's group you're more likely to find someone willing to sign with you than you are from a random stranger on BP or at some networking event.
@ Charles H. you mentioned you invested in the Rod K course online...would you mind sharing any other takeaways? I'm in Upstate, SC and hope to start investing in MF. I'm totally brand new to MFI, but after reading, listening to podcasts, etc., on SF investing and buy and hold, and fix and flip, I believe MF is one of the areas I want to work and grow and develop. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
In fact, this whole thread has been eye opening and awesome to say the least! Great content!
@Powell Chee Thanks for providing your insight. Did you close a deal during your time in the program?
Does the mentorship program assist with raising capital for the right deal?
I've heard that Sumrok is solid but I know Rod personally and have attended his events. He is the real deal. He has amazing events and wants people to succeed.
I've been in Rod's small group for about 6 months up to this point.
I joined for 2 main reasons:
1. I was seeking an experienced mentor who I would personally interact with.
2. I wanted to expand my network of like minded people.
I'm happy to say that both criteria have been met. As a member of his group, he makes himself readily available. He teaches/leads the discussions. If you have questions, he will answer you directly (vs. moderators or coaching assistants). Personally that is what I wanted, an active mentor. Rod is an ACTIVE mentor, which takes a lot of time/energy. The cherry on top is that he is always enthusiastic, and he truly seems to thrive off of helping and coaching others which is infectious.
People in the group are great, positive, and supporting. Some have closed deals, others have deals under contract, and any progress (big or small) is celebrated.
Also, Rod's mentorship has a spiritual side. If you are into positive affirmations, the Miracle Morning, Tony Robbins, etc. then you'll enjoy that aspect. To me - that's a big plus. I was just telling my friend today that I'm getting multi-family, high performance, and relationship mentoring all in one package!
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
Hey Powell,
Are you still with the group? Have you been involved in any deals? I'm considering joining. Thanks.
@Bradford G. - Before you go and spend $15,000 on anything. Why don't you take a few months and attend a few of the BiggerPockets webinars hosted by Brandon, listen to some of the podcasts, and read a few of the recommended books. I bet you'll learn just as much (if not more) for about 1% of the cost.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in this BiggerPockets community who are very successful at real estate investing and are willing to provide you with the same information as these guys, but for free.