Is anyone trying this type of financing

Is anyone trying this type of financing

Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
I have been on BP for a little while now and I have not come across anyone financing the way I have or maybe I just haven't recognized it. To start I bought my current home I live in for 110k. I'm a DIYer and fixed it up myself for 25k. It appraised at 160k. At this point I was not interested in rental property. Fast-forward about two years and a house on my street became available. I contacted my lender for my loan on my current residence. Mind you this is a private small bank. I asked him what kind of financing we could do on this house. He told me I could bridge the equity on my personal residence to use as a down payment on rental property. I was hesitant at first but we jumped in. Since then we have bought 6 SFR ranging in price from 40k-55k over three years. Each deal is 4.5% amortized over 20 years with a balloon payment due at 5 years that will roll over into a new 5 year rate and so on until it's paid off. Since we started that rate has stayed steady at 4.5%. The bank has also let me roll the closing costs into the loan as well so I have bought 6 houses with only about 500-1000 out of pocket for simple repairs and the such. My 6 houses currently cash flow 3900 per month. I self manage and I am in a town of 3200 people. The rental market is crazy here for such a small town. My vacancy rate over 3 years is almost 0. I have only had turnover in 2 of the 6 houses. I think this is because most of the other landlords don't fix things when they break and are just bad land lords. It seems with every house I have I get 2-3 qualified applicants within 2-3 days. My banker says he can continue to do these deals and even expand into 4 unit multi families as long as the equity is there. Is anyone else out there doing this kind of financing? I know there are risks with this but I want feedback if I should continue to pursue this method or is there something I'm missing. I would love any comments you all would like to leave.
15Reply
206 views

Most Popular Reply

JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y

Whenever you are working non-conforming loans (ie conforming to freddie/fannie buyback rules) you can just about do anything; if you find local banks willing to hold the notes in-house you have a whole lot of flexibility. That is a good rate for what you are doing so the bank must have a lot of confidence in what you've done so far, and you must have good financials. 

Every private bank (and I'd really say every bank, but anyway) exists for one reason: to make money. Banks make money by loaning money. Real estate is a good game for banks because it's backed by (theoretically) hard assets that are unlikely to become worthless, unlike a car, business venture, etc. Small banks that are well-capitalized and uninterested in running lists of mortgages in and out can do this kind of thing if they are so inclined, so it really looks like you've found a nice slot! 

Hint: Keep the name of the bank to yourself :)  It's like sharing your fishing hole. 

Skyline Properties
View Page
See this reply in the discussion

83 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Willis, TX · Member since 2014 · 158 posts · 58 votes
    9y

    @Devin Haertling I'm in Houston area , and i'm very jelous. that is all.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 18 votes
    9y

    This is something that I will keep in mind.  Thanks for sharing!

  • Investor · Arlington Heights, IL · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @Devin Haertling Devin, would you be able to send me the info on the lender and the bank's name.  I live in Illinois and I would like to explore a bit further.  By the way, excellent job to you.  $3,900 in monthly cashflow from 6 properties is excellent.

  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Devin Haertling

    Hi Devin, I do something similar. I use commercial loans at 5% interest amortized over 25 years with a 5 year balloon. I use small local banks. Here is my thought in 5 years the balance will be reduced by principle pay down and when I refinance even if the rate went up to 7% its only approximately $50 more based on a loan at $90,000. At 6% its $4 more. There 75% LTV. Buy at the right number, rehab, (build equity - added value), place a tenant in the property and refi (BRRRR). No money in or very little its a great strategy.

    Way to go.  I average $450 positive cash flow per unit.

    Keep it up.

  • Rental Property Investor · Chesterfield, VA · Member since 2015 · 28 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    @Elijah F., Devin is right, there's no increase on the loan for the property "donating" the equity.  The bank takes a 2nd lien on the donor property and the "cash" from that lien is funneled into the new property to provide the equity infusion needed.  Generally, this is probably only going to work when the same bank owns both the 1st and 2nd liens.   

  • Ray ThorsenPro Member
    Investor · Waterford, WI · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 30 votes
    9y

    This is great strategy. I am hoping to find a bank or private money or hard money lender that would entertain this type of financing. I have one of my properties free and clear and this would be a great way to harness some of that equity.  I am wondering how does the bank recognize that the purchased property has enough equity to release the lien from the "host" property. Would you have to refinance out or would they take an appraisal report and release it based on that report showing adequate equity. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Morgantown, WV · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 41 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Johnson:

    This post is awesome. I'm going to look into this.

    This IS awesome. Wonder if Andrew Hardesty @Citizens is your guy...(he used to run the previous Investors group here in town BTW...)

  • Real Estate Agent · Morgantown, WV · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 41 votes
    9y

    @Devin Haertling - fascinating thread - glad you posted it! And glad you see the risks clearly as well. Maybe you could mitigate them by diversifying a bit: maybe instead of the lower cost (40-55k) ones you said you're in maybe start to look either at a different 'class of properties' (which might require a different source of deals as well, like say probate/estate deals) and/or look at maybe investing in a place or a different way that would handle a downturn better like: (and these are just spitball ideas, not suggestions) but maybe like in a destination city, or in destination city with AirBnB-type rentals, or a military area, or a really popular/strong college town for investors which may not 'dip' as low in rental demand or something...just something to consider. Because, as I see it a downturn would be unfortunate for you as well in a Dollar Cost Averaging sense!!  Your average would be toward overpaying per unit if all of a sudden every home was "on sale/underpriced" right as your funds dried up.  Overall, it seems to me you'd want to be able to show a bank that even though (in a downturn scenario) this particular locale may be suffering, that's it's not your entire business. You'd have "other forks in the fire" to cover payments on these.

  • Herndon, VA · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Thanks for sharing. I an new to this and I was wondering how to get financing for mr first deal. My partner has a home that is paid off and we were looking at getting HELOC; she had discrepancy on her credit which affected her score. I can not get it, it is not under my name. Is it possible to get this bridge loan on our first deal?

  • Joshua DiazPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2015 · 269 posts · 165 votes
    9y

    Thank you so much for sharing!  Yet another reason to build relationship with the smaller, local banks.  This is definitely something I'll look into. A credit union would be able to do something creative like this if they were so inclined to, right?

  • Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    9y

    @Devin Haertling  I have just today stumbled onto the same sort of thing. sort of

    I have several properties in different towns.  These towns are bigger than the one you are describing.  I have a commercial account in one town, and I carry a line of credit with them.  I like the bank but they do not do portfolio or commercial loans.  (that's the loan you describe in your OP as the first mortgage 41/2%, 20 years, 5 year arm)  This bank will  do  an equity line of credit against properties I already own.  They will loan 75% of the value of the property, less the amount I owe on the first.  Payments are interest only 5.125% interest.   The trouble is it balloons in one year and must be paid in full, then you must go through the whole loan process again.  I was trying all day to figure out how to use this to my advantage, with my normal lender to do the commercial loans.  Its close to your bridge financing but using 2 banks.  Its not practical in my areas because the deals are to thin, and most rents won't cover a 100% financed deal. 

    My Market is much like yours, I've bought 3 houses in the past year and have picked up appreciation during the time between the offer and closing.  My question would be what happens when the market levels off or heaven forbid falls a little bit?  now your upside down on a whole string of houses right? your in a very unique place I think because your rentals are not only covering 100% financing but supporting a 20 year note.  Good Job!

    RR             

  • Investor · Avilla, IN · Member since 2013 · 796 posts · 769 votes
    9y
    Totally standard with small banks that lend for their own portfolio. When you say your cashflow is $3900 do you mean they bring in $3900 in rental income or that AFTER all expenses you have $3900 NET cash flow? If it's the latter then most of us are in the wrong market...
  • Investor · Ogdensburg, WI · Member since 2016 · 273 posts · 351 votes
    9y

    @Devin Haertling

     I have been doing pretty much the same for a number of years. The terms are 3.9 for 5. They said that would be 4.125-4.2 on my latest deal I brought them. My equity is in my properties only and not my personal residence. They go 80/20 and their in house appraisals are generally a little conservative....The appraisals are good for 12 months. After that all properties need an "In house evaluation" which is rent roll and a drive by from there in house appraiser. Only way I need an out of house appraisal is if the value is over 250k..So when these terms were described to me I had them release as many properties as possible so the next deal only required 1 "evaluation" not multiple.. Closed on over 1m in property in 2015-17 with no money down. My Bank basically said they could do  this do to relationship and my track record. Until reading the responses to your post I did not realize it was so uncommon.

    My corresponding letters are very similar with my loan officer.  They actually contact me to see how my deal negotiating is progressing.

    Congrats sounds like you found a great lender!

  • Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
    9y
    Brandon Hicks My rental rolls are at 3900 per month. I still have to cover costs out of that. After expenses I am clearing about 1000 per month but i self manage and I'm very handy and do all the small repairs myself.
  • Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
    9y
    Ralph R. If the market falls I'm still cash flowing right so even if I'm upside down I'm still making my mortgage payments and putting cash into my pockets. The niche I'm in is a very unique situation. Houses in my small town that are listed at 50k aren't being bought and sit for awhile in some cases. Most people that will rent that house from me can't qualify for a loan and property taxes are a killer on most people. Not sure what your area is like but my 55k house has annual property taxes of 1600. That's killer for people who live paycheck to paycheck and barely qualify for a loan. The people that can qualify for a loan buy the houses listed at 100k plus. This has allowed me to offer low on these houses and every house I have bought has appraised at 2k+ over purchase price. If the market takes a nose dive I won't have the equity to buy more houses but I will still be bringing in rents to cover my payments.
  • Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
    9y
    Ralph R. Also when my balloon payment comes due in 5 years there is not another loan application process. I just have to pay a recording fee which is about $50 and it rolls into the new 5 year at the banks current terms. Which again has stayed at 4.5% for about 3.5 years now
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    the risk is the loans are not rolled over at 5 years.. this happened to untold thousands of investors around 08 to 09  creating additional foreclosure burdens.

    so just read the fine print of your 20 year reset at 5 year and make sure the bank is obligated to extend even if rate jumps ( which it certainly will) so unless your rents go up your cash flow will get eroded as rates rise. 

    other than that nice way to leverage into the deals and sounds like you found a honey hole to fish out of.

  • Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
    9y
    Jay Hinrichs It hasn't even crossed my mind that the bank wouldn't renew my loan. I've asked my banker about what happens with the roll over after 5 years and all he said was rates could change. Never even mentioned they could not renew at a new rate. I guess that is a realistic possibility. Something to think about and look into.
  • Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
    9y
    Christian Ivanov I will check with my loan officer about the best way to contact him.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    devin. Read your note etc.  pretty sure the roll over is at their option.  Otherwise you have an adjustable rate 20 year loan.   This one tidbit sunk many an investor and syndicator during the GFC.  Banks were in trouble would not renew borrowers could not find alternative financing. Did not have enough reserves to cash out or substantially pay down.   Bank folds. Hedge fund like Rialto ends up owning your mortgage and basically force borrower into bk or they sue on the personal guarantee you signed  high leverage in real estate in a downturn can wipe you out.   If your betting 4K a month after all expenses and reserves.  I would use a big chunk of that to pay off one mortgage at a time. Free and clear or little debt can never bite you

  • Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
    9y
    Yes that's what I am doing. Right now I am paying off the notes as quickly as I can. One house I am making double payments on so it will pay off in about 7 years.
  • Investor · Winter Haven, FL · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 11 votes
    9y
    Jd Martin "Banks make money by loaning money. ... Hint: Keep the name of the bank to yourself :)  It's like sharing your fishing hole. " Do you feel that these two statements contradict one another? If I was the bank and someone brought me more clients I'd treat them the way Mr Drysdale treated Jed Clampett.
  • Bridgewater, NJ · Member since 2015 · 100 posts · 31 votes
    9y
    will this strategy work for flipping properties as well?
  • Rental Property Investor · Gainesville, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 432 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Devin Haertling:

    This is the exact email correspondence with my loan officer.

    Kevin,

    I have had several people and some other real estate investors ask how I have been able to buy the rentals without any money out of pocket. I tell them I am using the equity in my house but then they have further questions that I cannot answer.

    I end up telling them I dont know, I have a great banker and he makes things happen!!

    But really how would I explain to someone what kind of loan I am getting? Its not a HELOC and its not a refi, right? So how would I explain it to another investor?

    Thanks

    Devin

    Good Morning Devin,

    Thank you for the compliment. You can tell them that we bridge equity from other properties to buy the new ones. Also, you are buying them all on a deal and have some equity to start. If they have further questions I would be happy to discuss it with you or them.

    Thanks again,

    Kevin

     What is the risk of doing this? I don't have an example but somehow not paying the loan (although a small enough amount since it's a DP) on the primary, or either of the rental properties.

  • Investor · Nashville, IL · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 51 votes
    9y
    Scott Upshaw It would. The last house we bought was a hud foreclosure for 6,000. I used this same loan structure for that loan except obviously it needed some work, well a lot of work. At closing we were able to roll closing costs into the loan for 6k but we were also able to take out an 8 month construction loan for 20k but we only spent 17k. We made interest only payments for 8 months and now we have a note on the property at 23k. We did think about selling the property but we had a current tenant that wanted to a bigger place so we let them move into it. Selling is still an option but for right now renting it is working well especially since I don't have any options for 1031 roll over into another property.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.