[Calc Review] Help me analyze this Cleveland deal

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John Nachtigall
Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes
5y

I own 4 duplexes in Cleveland.   They are fully managed by Holton-Wise who are active in these forums @James Wise.   I have been very happy with the management.  I have to take care of the utilities, they take care of everything else.   You should be aware you have to pay for water/sewer yourself, they bill to the owner not the tenet in Cleveland.   

I would suggest you check out their website Link and The Ultimate Guide to Cleveland Neighborhoods guide UGCN Link.  James will do a personalized analysis of a property for you for a small fee, I put a link to one of the analysis he did for me below.   I found them invaluable given I am remote and he understands the market so well.   A little money up front was well worth the very in-depth analysis.  Even if you don't use them there are hundreds of videos analyzing properties in Cleveland and you can learn a lot.  

Good Luck


YouTube Link

I forgot to include my numbers for water/sewer.   I paid $2705, $1340, $2336, and $1338 for the 4 properties I own for 2020.  You can see that it is very variable depending on how many people live in the properties (families vs no kids etc.)

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  • John Nachtigall
    Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @David Terbeek:

    @John Nachtigall  While I am jealous about how the world works everywhere else, that is still not legal in a residential unit.  (NOTE:  We do us RUBS in commercial so very familiar with the concept)

    Agree, I was just trying to explain the RUBS concept to the self proclaimed newbie.   Obviously you and James have way more experience in general and specialization in Cleveland.  I personally was billed for RUBS when I rented living in Pennsylvania.  Even with autopay in a class A building I found it annoying.   As a single person I suddenly found myself caring about the 5 person family next door washing his car every weekend.    I can't imagine managing it in lower cost rentals.  

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    3Reply
  • Marc RiceBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Doesn't seem that good unless its in a A/B class area...even at those numbers that's still pretty tight for Cleveland.

    [email protected]614-363-2787
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    1Reply
  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    937-979-7000
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    2Reply
  • Jezelle John
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 74 posts · 49 votes
    5y

    @Marc Rice I’m still

    Learning the market. Can you be specific about what it tight? The initial numbers I got from my

    REA. Then I went to Zillow , Realtor, rentometer, and apartments.com to get an idea of the rents and expenses. The seller also provided their expenses (I increased some numbers for a bit of wiggle room). I did the calculations and shared the result with BP.

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    You probably typed in Pittsburgh by mistake.

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    You probably typed in Pittsburgh by mistake.

    That was a low blow, Blue Dwarf, and in your case, that's very, very low.

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    You probably typed in Pittsburgh by mistake.

    That was a low blow, Blue Dwarf, and in your case, that's very, very low.

    They don't call um Pittsburgh toilets for nothing Jimbo.

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    You probably typed in Pittsburgh by mistake.

    That was a low blow, Blue Dwarf, and in your case, that's very, very low.

    They don't call um Pittsburgh toilets for nothing Jimbo.

    LOL. I still have operating ones in two SFRs and a duplex right now.

    1Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    Do they really Flush UP (???)

    I've seen them in the east before and people always said they flush up?

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    You probably typed in Pittsburgh by mistake.

    That was a low blow, Blue Dwarf, and in your case, that's very, very low.

    They don't call um Pittsburgh toilets for nothing Jimbo.

    LOL. I still have operating ones in two SFRs and a duplex right now.

    Speaking of your houses......Did you get those Tide Pods I FedEx'd over to you? Just tell your mom all of that blue paint will come out of the sheets if she puts two in the machine and runs it on hot. 

    2Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    You probably typed in Pittsburgh by mistake.

    That was a low blow, Blue Dwarf, and in your case, that's very, very low.

    They don't call um Pittsburgh toilets for nothing Jimbo.

    LOL. I still have operating ones in two SFRs and a duplex right now.

    Speaking of your houses......Did you get those Tide Pods I FedEx'd over to you? Just tell your mom all of that blue paint will come out of the sheets if she puts two in the machine and runs it on hot. 

    Get real. You blued yourself last night and every night. I know, it's the Cleveland way.

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @James Wise it's odd...every time I google "Cleveland" all I get is pictures of toilets...maybe the search is broken...

    You probably typed in Pittsburgh by mistake.

    That was a low blow, Blue Dwarf, and in your case, that's very, very low.

    They don't call um Pittsburgh toilets for nothing Jimbo.

    LOL. I still have operating ones in two SFRs and a duplex right now.

    Speaking of your houses......Did you get those Tide Pods I FedEx'd over to you? Just tell your mom all of that blue paint will come out of the sheets if she puts two in the machine and runs it on hot. 

    Get real. You blued yourself last night and every night. I know, it's the Cleveland way.

    2Reply
  • Jezelle John
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 74 posts · 49 votes
    5y

    @John Nachtigall I’m looking at a side by side duplex in wakeman, OH. And it has a shared septic system…..do you have experience with those? They are asking 245k and I offered 235k, now they want 242,500.

    0Reply
  • Morgan Fritz
    Rental Property Investor · Wakeman, OH · Member since 2021 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    5y

    @Jezelle John I have a duplex with a shared septic in Wakeman and have had no issues - the city empties them every few years and charges an extra $26/month (per property, not per unit) to pay back their "debts" for installing the septic. So far, I'm under the impression that the septic tanks that were installed are sized to handle all units on the property, so as long as the tenants aren't overloading them with people I would say no worries there.

    1Reply
  • Jezelle John
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 74 posts · 49 votes
    5y

    Thank you. 

    0Reply
  • John Nachtigall
    Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2017 · 325 posts · 701 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jezelle John:

    @John Nachtigall I’m looking at a side by side duplex in wakeman, OH. And it has a shared septic system…..do you have experience with those? They are asking 245k and I offered 235k, now they want 242,500.

    I dont, all my rentals are on the sewer system.  I thought I was being brave buying rentals with a boiler instead of forced air heating.   I am conservative by nature so a septic system would be too scary for me.   I know they work just fine for a lot of people, but being remote I am not willing to take the risk.

    My one piece of advice is that if they do accept your offer you specifically put in the contract you will have a specialist inspect the system (separate and apart from the home inspector).  There are all kinds of complex rules regarding updates and fixes to the system so what is legal now may not be able to be fixed because the codes have changed.

    Good Luck

    0Reply
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