My trip to Kansas City to meet with Turn Key Operators

My trip to Kansas City to meet with Turn Key Operators

Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 60 votes

Last week I was in Kansas City, MO to meet with turnkey providers and get a better feeling for the city and what is available. Due to personal constraints I was only in town for 3 days which, while enough for initial meetings, was really not enough time to get to know neighborhoods, see more than a few houses and arrange follow up meetings. I wish I had planned for a week, but I was able to accomplish a lot in just a few days. I have received a lot of requests for information on my trip so here it goes.

I wanted to meet with companies with different kinds of TK models. Each company has a slightly different approach to their clients, tenants, and remodeling.This is important to consider when reviewing your own investment objectives and who you want to partner with. I live overseas, so communication especially through email and skype are important. I am looking for a partnership with the company that will be looking after my assets, so I need to know we have similar business objectives and approaches. This can range from the quality and quantity of the remodel (some focus on redoing almost everything versus doing just what is necessary), approach to tenant issues and on- going maintenance. Some management companies focus only on their own turnkey customers, and generally have a more proactive maintenance programme. Others are commercial property managers, some have in house maintenance, others all contracted maintenance etc.  On the property side, there are different approaches to your involvement in the remodel or upgrading of the property.

First, I decided to focus on turnkey companies which are based in the Kansas City area. There are companies which represent one or more companies that work in the area. They generally are paid a placement fee if an investor buys from their person on the ground.  While the initial customer service for the sale, and ongoing investment may be through the third party, the day to day management, upgrades, etc, are provided by the company on the ground. Therefore, it is important that you are comfortable with both. While the main contact was very responsive, I found the contact in KC was not as much so. As I said above, relationships and communication are important for me, so this implies a potential issue for me so I decided not to meet with the team on the ground.

@Nathan Brooks and Bridge Equity provide full service turnkey services. They perform high quality remodels and do a thorough review of all the work needed to update mechanicals, bathrooms, cosmetics, etc. They use the same materials throughout their property so are able to have volume discounts while using quality materials. On paper, some of their returns may seem lower than other companies. However, for their proformas, they use reasonable (complete) numbers from the beginning whereas, proformas from other companies maybe missing expense items or use unreasonably low numbers. With Bridge Equity, you can commit to the house purchase in advance, the purchase will only be complete once the work is done, all inspection items cleared, and a tenant is in place. They are a great team, very professional and customer service orientated.

On the other end of the development spectrum, I met with JK at Storybook Realty.They offer a hybrid turnkey business model whereby the investor purchases the property up front and they will manage the required upgrades and subsequent property management. The investor can then decide how much (or how little) of the upgrades should be done and when. While I did not see a finished house, from the walk throughs, JK is extremely knowledgeable about construction and the work that needs to be done. They focus on northern KC, and specifically areas with good school districts.

I also met with Steadfast Capital / Alpine Property Management. They also provide full turnkey services, but also provide the opportunity to invest through deeds of trust for the purchase. I met with their property management team who were very professional and knowledgeable. While I was unable to see inside the houses they presented as they were all rented, they met my criteria and at least one is a potential option for me.

No matter who you decide to work with, this is your money, your investment, and your decision. Decide beforehand what your criteria really are for investing, both in terms of the numbers, and what you expect from your partners. Know where and what kind of area you want to be in. Lower priced properties bringer higher risk but more potential cashflow on paper depending on tenant turnover. More expensive areas are ‘safer’, lower cashflow and more appreciation potential.

Do your own due diligence, research, and run your own numbers. While I believe most of the turnkey operators will try to provide an honest deal and numbers, at the end of the day, they are in business to make money and you so are you. However, their gain may not always be yours.If you are not comfortable with a deal, be straight forward and honest, but do not be afraid to walk away if it does not seem right or does not fit your investment criteria.

Thanks to everyone that I met and spoke with over the last month or two as I move forward on my investment journey. I will keep you posted as I pursue my investment journey.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y

@Account Closed   the new crop of Turnkey operators generally rehabs houses to retail standards these days IE slab granite nice fixtures  some stainless steel appliance etc.. there is competition fo the best teannts  and when a good tenant walks into a jazzed up home compared to another home that is just a tired rental guess which one gets rented the quickest thereby creating the most cash flow.  I know the Vendor I deal with in KC that what he does with his turn keys they are as nice as what I would do for a retail turn over.   and its the same in many of the markets were I fund deals in the Space.. I am really proud of the Turn key product coming out these days compared to when I first got in the space in 2001.

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  • Matt BellPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Montgomery, AL · Member since 2015 · 93 posts · 95 votes
    10y

    Great summary.  Thanks for sharing.  I have been considering looking at TK providers in different parts of the country as I tend to move around a lot for my work.

  • Littleton, CO · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    Excellent post as well.

  • Real Estate Services · Olathe, KS · Member since 2015 · 329 posts · 57 votes
    10y

    Julie since you are interested in Kansas City. I would like to connect and let's chat!

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Great Post Julie.  Did you ever consider Stewardship Properties (http://stewardshipproperties.com)?  They are active in Eugene, OR and Dallas, TX, but really specialize in KC.  Great professional service and very ethical.  They know their markets extremely well.  Have some really fine programs.  All the best.

  • Investor · WI OH · Member since 2015 · 113 posts · 36 votes
    10y

    Nice detail, Julie. Keep us posted on your progress.

  • Lenexa, KS · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 53 votes
    10y
    Thanks for sharing your experiences here in KC. It's an amazing opportunity! I hope you continue to share your experiences. Please feel free to reach out if I can help in anyway.
  • Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 13 votes
    10y
    Julie Macd , so glad you got to visit KC and shared your experience with everyone. I look forward to keeping connected and sharing notes ;). I would highly recommend anyone investing out of state to visit the area you plan on investing as well. Also, do your research/interview companies and people you plan on working with in person.
  • Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 31 votes
    10y

    This post was very educational, thank you! I'm confused about the turnkey models that you described:

    • Whether the maintenance, repairs, and upgrades are done in house or contracted out, don't property managers make more when the costs are higher?
    • If you partner with a turnkey company that's not on the ground, than neither you or your partner are in charge of taking care the most important part of the investment, the asset! If you are the partner that's putting up the money, shouldn't the other partner be in charge of protecting and taking care of the asset?
    • If you are in charge of buying the property, and choosing what upgrades to make, aren't you just switching from managing a property to managing a property manager?

    I work with investors, placing money in the Phoenix area. I offer a unique partnership opportunity that addresses your main concern and makes sure that if I make money, you make money. PM me if you are interested, I would love to chat and understand your investment goals.

    Cheers!

  • Investor · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2014 · 176 posts · 54 votes
    10y

    Thanks for the write up Julie. I too am considering KC if I decide to venture out of my backyard. I realize within a TK operation there are mutiple ways for them to make $ from acquisition and improvements to placement and management. My question is did all three companies have similar fees on the management end of things?

    Thanks in advance,

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2016 · 37 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Julie Macd, can you share with us what type of cash-on-cash returns you are expecting?

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 60 votes
    10y
    @Account Closed there are different models that operators call  turnkey.
    On one hand you have a group of turnkey operators that focus on finding and working with investors in the market place and matching them with on the ground developers. The 'sales' people are not on the ground but work with one or more companies that are flipping properties. The same person doing the flipping may or may not also have property management. My concern with this model is that there is a third layer. However, the companies that do this also work hard to maintain their relationships with investors and can provide a comfort level to the investor from start to finish.

    While property manager may technically make more money when the costs are higher, they may also lose customers if the costs are too high. As with all business ventures the PM has to balance customer service with the investors and their own bottom line. Also in the turnkey world, the profits come from the sale of the property to the investor and the PM is a key to maintaining the relationship. The property management may or may not be a major component of the income strategy of the operator depending on the goals of the business. That being said the PM must still be profitable to keep things going.

    For the third point, if you buy pure turnkey (ie buy a fully remodelled property with a tenant in place) you generally are paying a retail price  with little equity. On the other side, this is the most passive of the investment models. However, some investors would prefer to be more involved in the remodel of the house. There is a better chance of gaining some equity by being part of the remodel process. From a turnkey perspective, in general you are looking at managing a property manager rather than a property. An investor looking at this model, generally is looking for passive investment rather than active day to day involvement in property management.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Julie Macd   @Nathan Brooks  is a quality individual !

  • Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 31 votes
    10y

    @Julie Macd

    Wow, you really have a deep understanding of all the different types of turnkeys! One thing I don't think you've mentioned are your goals. Maximize cash flow? Or maximize equity to flip the house?

    I must say having a fully rehabbed turnkey sounds great! But why would you fully remodel a house before putting a renter in there, who has no attachment to the home, and risk them trashing the house? 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed   the new crop of Turnkey operators generally rehabs houses to retail standards these days IE slab granite nice fixtures  some stainless steel appliance etc.. there is competition fo the best teannts  and when a good tenant walks into a jazzed up home compared to another home that is just a tired rental guess which one gets rented the quickest thereby creating the most cash flow.  I know the Vendor I deal with in KC that what he does with his turn keys they are as nice as what I would do for a retail turn over.   and its the same in many of the markets were I fund deals in the Space.. I am really proud of the Turn key product coming out these days compared to when I first got in the space in 2001.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 60 votes
    10y

    @Casey Miles The property management fees varied between 7 to 9% with the higher priced companies generally giving a discount with more properties. They also were more likely to include periodic maintenance visits in the fee. the lower fess would charge for any site visits.

    @Charles McClure I am aiming for cash on cash of 12% or more based on my conservative estimates including capex, maintenance, insurance, property management, with 20% down with 30 year mortgage 5 % interest.

  • Rental Property Investor · Fremont, CA · Member since 2015 · 67 posts · 30 votes
    10y

    Thanks for the amazing post! I am currently looking at properties in KC, both as a buy and hold,non TK properties, and researching a few TK companies too. Thank you for the post, I will take my trip out there and use your post as a structuring tool. I hope to reach out to the companies as well and hope they give you some credit if you ended up doing business with any of them.

  • Realtor And Investor · Frederick, MD · Member since 2011 · 68 posts · 30 votes
    10y

    Great post. I am saving up for a rental in Kansas City, MO and have been doing a little research myself, so this post have been very informative.

  • Chris DawsonPro Member
    Real Estate Broker / General Contractor / Property Manager · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 395 posts · 425 votes
    10y

    @Julie Macdexcellent write up! Keep us posted on what you end up buying.

  • Nathan BrooksBusiness Member
    Lender · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2012 · 403 posts · 188 votes
    10y

    @Julie Macd it was such a pleasure meeting you and I really appreciate how succinct and informative the posts have been.  I love how analytical you are with the deals, and also the time you take reviewing and understanding the deals.

    @Jay Hinrichs thanks brother. I hope you know how much I appreciate the kind words, it's deeply meaningful coming from you sir!

    @Jessica Wise your awesome, and looking forward to the end of April :)

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  • Nathan BrooksBusiness Member
    Lender · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2012 · 403 posts · 188 votes
    10y

    Thank you @Julie Macd for taking all the time to continue writing, updating, and answering questions.  Just for a few points here, and for further conversation:

    Make sure you are understanding the philosophy of the business ... for us, we want the best owners, properties, and tenants.  And built the business around an all star team of real estate professionals, who really understand the ins and outs of our business, from the acquisition and renovation side, to the people relationship with both tenants and owners.

    If you guys have more direct questions, I am very happy to help.  

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  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 71 posts · 60 votes
    10y

    @Nathan Brooks I am really looking fro to working with you and your team.

    As an update I am finalizing an agreement to buy a house through Nathan and Bridge Equity to get my investing plan on the road.

  • Nathan BrooksBusiness Member
    Lender · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2012 · 403 posts · 188 votes
    10y

    Thanks for your business @Julie Macd and really looking forward to working with you too!

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  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    @Julie Macd keep me posted how it goes!  I own a few 5 bed houses in Prairie Village and Roeland Park (nice urban neighborhoods of KC) and considering Bridge and @Nathan Brooks team to manage them (and possibly buy more).  Most of my portfolio is here in Denver but owned in KC for close to 10 years now. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · York, UK · Member since 2013 · 895 posts · 453 votes
    10y

    @Julie Macd thanks so much for sharing your experience and kudos for actually going to visit and do some due diligence. After doing a couple flips myself I'm much more interested in taking a more passive approach on my next deals and have been considering turnkey in general and KC specifically.

  • Nathan BrooksBusiness Member
    Lender · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2012 · 403 posts · 188 votes
    10y

    @Jason Lewis we already have a flood of interest in your properties, and look forward to getting those rented quickly. We are grateful to be your trusted partner in KC ... Thank you for the business!

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