Bandit signs - jail time??

Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes

Ok, now I'm freaked out. I was just about to post my ad on Craigslist to hire a sign poster for our bandit signs (already ordered) and I thought I would look up the sign ordinances in our area to double check what the fines, etc. might be. One of the cities mentions imprisonment. Have any of you seen the same in an ordinance, have you ever been threatened with jail time, how did you handle this issue??

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Dev HornPro Member

Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

13y

One problem with BP is people talk in as if there is no difference between locations across the U.S. So the person from California is telling the person from Louisiana what they think is best. That's one thing I'd advise new members to be careful about - i.e., give more weight to people in your same area or to people that do marketing nationally. Those outside your areas are just sharing opinions in most cases.

Why do I say all that? Because I know people in certain markets in the U.S. - such as Louisiana, Georgia, and Florida - that are scoring big time with bandit signs. And they put them out on the weekends and pick them back up. Our signs are professionally designed and produced/printed. I myself don't use them because of strict city ordinances in my market, but in other places, they can be used.

Don't like them? Don't want to use them? Think they are a waste? That's great - respect your opinion. But if you think they are unproductive just because you don't like them, I'd challenge that with real results that I see other people getting with them in certain markets.

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Dev HornPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
I've never heard of that happening to anyone. Technically, a municipaility MAY JAIL SOMEONE for violations of local ordinances, but that rarely happens as most are dealt with via fines, community service, etc.

It's wise to be cautious with deploying signage. One idea: Consider asking businesses if you may put a sign on their corner if you promise to pick it back up in 2 days. If you can do that. you'll avoid the city issues altogether.
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Stephen Masek
Investor · Mission Viejo, CA · Member since 2012 · 627 posts · 204 votes
13y
Why exactly would anyone think they have a right to post such signs on property they do not own, junking-up the areas in which they are posted? If profit is all that matters, why not go whole-hog and start selling cocaine?
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Account Closed
Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
13y
You can try and put a flyer in resturants in your city.

Joe Gore
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Samantha M.
Landlord · Dallas, TX · Member since 2012 · 505 posts · 34 votes
13y
Originally posted by Joe Gore:
You can try and put a flyer in resturants in your city.

Joe Gore

Have you had any luck with this? Also does it typically cost money to place flyers? Thanks
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Account Closed
Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
13y
Samantha,

I see flyers in restaurants that I visit here in Dallas I don't think the restaurant charge anything to leave flyers at the counter.

Joe Gore
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Samantha M.
Landlord · Dallas, TX · Member since 2012 · 505 posts · 34 votes
13y
Originally posted by Joe Gore:
Samantha,

I see flyers in restaurants that I visit here in Dallas I don't think the restaurant charge anything to leave flyers at the counter.

Joe Gore

Have you actually seen "we buy houses" flyers as well at restaurants?
1 Reply
Account Closed
Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
13y
Samantha,

The ones I see say we buy ugly homes for cash.

Joe Gore
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Patricia Franciulli
Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2012 · 251 posts · 9 votes
13y
here in Vegas you will get a call at 6am from the city asking you why you did not pick up your signs.. Sometimes I get calls calling names and things. I just think bandit signs are waist of time.. I gave up doing it long ago. Do not waist your time.. The internet does a better job than signs.. You will get lots of idiots calling you for nothing.. Just stupid.. I have a friend who likes it but I dont..
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Account Closed
Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
13y
You might try supermarkets in your area to put your sign most of the stores have a message board for people to hang flyers.

Joe Gore
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Ben R.
Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2013 · 187 posts · 23 votes
13y
Originally posted by Stephen Masek:

If profit is all that matters, why not go whole-hog and start selling cocaine?

My motto is "If you're gonna' do the time, do the crime"...

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Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Stephen Masek you should apply that same logic to garage sale signs. Those are everywhere on the weekends and I'm guessing you don't raise a fuss about those... and if anyone is in this business just to make money for themselves and not to help people, it's gonna be a long exhausting journey since much of it has to do with helping people.
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Dev HornPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
One problem with BP is people talk in as if there is no difference between locations across the U.S. So the person from California is telling the person from Louisiana what they think is best. That's one thing I'd advise new members to be careful about - i.e., give more weight to people in your same area or to people that do marketing nationally. Those outside your areas are just sharing opinions in most cases.

Why do I say all that? Because I know people in certain markets in the U.S. - such as Louisiana, Georgia, and Florida - that are scoring big time with bandit signs. And they put them out on the weekends and pick them back up. Our signs are professionally designed and produced/printed. I myself don't use them because of strict city ordinances in my market, but in other places, they can be used.

Don't like them? Don't want to use them? Think they are a waste? That's great - respect your opinion. But if you think they are unproductive just because you don't like them, I'd challenge that with real results that I see other people getting with them in certain markets.
8 Reply
Stephen Masek
Investor · Mission Viejo, CA · Member since 2012 · 627 posts · 204 votes
13y
The problem is placing profit over being civilized. The bandit signs junk up areas, are almost always placed on property not owned by those placing them, and violate laws almost everywhere. "Results" are not the only thing which matters.
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y
They're illegal almost every where. We've discussed this here numerous times before. Yes, some people have great success with them. Some people make money robbing liquor stores or dealing drugs. All are breaking the law to make money. I know @Dev Horn will push back and say its no big deal and I shouldn't compare bandit signs to drug dealing. But breaking the law is breaking the law.

Now, its possible you're working in an area where these are OK. If so, proceed. If they're illegal, IMHO, you shouldn't put them out.

Again, not true in most areas. Most cities regulate every sign a business puts on their property. Many places have little stickers on the signs showing their permit number. Business may be allowed temporary signs. Even those may be limited in placement, size, and relevance to the business. So, there may or may not be an automatic pass for you to put your sign on some business' property.

Yes, bandit signs work. But there are almost always illegal. Don't be a badly behaved investor that breaks the law for your profit and gives the rest of us an even worse reputation.
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Sam Craven
Houston, TX · Member since 2011 · 673 posts · 360 votes
13y
Bandit signs, cocaine, and robbing liquor stores. I guess bandits are the new gateway drug?

Bandits are illegal, but i think the rhetoric should be cooled a bit when talking about them. I know lots of reputable investors that use them, and i know a lot of slimy ones that do direct mail. Sweeping generalizations don't do ANYONE in the industry any good.
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Dev HornPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
Amen, @Sam Craven - I wouldn't even comment on this - because frankly I have no desire to be the poster child for bandit signs - but I get this sneaky feeling that a lot of people in here don't actually do ANY of this. They just TALK about it.

I work with investors who kick a** and take names. Sometimes I share what I see some of them doing, which seems to work well because I see the call/lead reports.

If certain people in here want to get into philosophical debates and hyperbolic rants, they are welcome to do that. As for us, we're busy buying houses.
1 Reply
Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Sam Craven @Dev Horn

I appreciate both your comments so much!! There are plenty of things in life that are "illegal" that many of us justify doing, "jaywalking" is one that readily comes to mind. And it is ridiculous to put bandit signs in the same arena as dealing drugs. Our intention is to post in several different cities throughout the Denver metro area and in areas of active sign policing, we will just stop posting. And I also totally agree, that sometimes people just want to complain/criticize and don't actually have an active business themselves. I am well on my way to having a thriving investment business all while maintaining my integrity.
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Brad Chandler
Wholesaler And Coach · Springfield, VA · Member since 2011 · 169 posts · 75 votes
13y
In DC a number of years back they set up a sting operation on a big investor who was posting tons of bandit signs. They posed as a home seller and he claims they actually cuffed him and took him to the station for processing. He did not get jail time. We don't use them anymore but when we first started in the business we did. We paid thousands in fines...
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Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Brad Chandler
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Dave Abbott
Investor · New Smyrna Beach, FL · Member since 2011 · 5 posts · 1 vote
13y
Amanda,

You will get more accomplished by asking for forgiveness than permission.
1 Reply
Alex Baev
Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 98 posts · 27 votes
13y
I'm in love with this new saying I've been hearing from RE investors of all types regarding a myriad of practical, business, moral/ethical and even legal issues. It's a mix of legal-speak, figure of speech and a distancing technique, and it goes like this - "Whatever the market will bear"

I hear it on this forum and others, in podcasts, REI meetings and open houses...

"The rent I charge is whatever the market will bare"

"I'll put it up for sale for whatever the market will bare"

"I'll offer to pay whatever the market will bare"

Something to think about, on both sides of the isle
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y

Reputable investors that break the law. Right. But whatever rationalization you use to justify your illegal actions is OK, I guess.

Funny, isn't it. To be legitimate you have to follow all the laws. Not just the ones that are convenient to follow.

You're right that putting up bandit signs shouldn't be compared to dealing drugs. As of Jan 1 14 selling marijuana will be legal here in CO where bandit signs will continue to be illegal. And the feds have stated they won't intefer.

Be aware that around Denver the CAUSS (Citizens Against Ugly Street Spam) group is quite active. I've seen numerous bandit signs cut in half or with part of the phone number cut off and plastered with a CAUSS sticker.
1 Reply
J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y
First, if you were going to ask me, "What city in the US would be most likely to come down hard on bandit signs," my second answer would have been Santa Cruz, CA... (Berkeley, CA would have been my first). So, it's not surprising you're hearing this, Amanda.

I agree with the others that, if not allowed in your jurisdiction, you shouldn't put them out. Now, that said, I find it hard to believe that strong punishments can generally be enforced without a lot of difficulty by the local law enforcement.

As an example, what if you had one other investor who you were constantly competing with...what would stop you from putting out signs with his name and phone number on them (other than you breaking the law and being unethical :)? In other words, you could easily frame someone else or vice versa, with the result being your competition would go to jail.

Sounds a bit too easy...
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
13y
You really just do not see them here anymore for the last 5 years or so. Occasionally I will see one.

Many have moved to the internet as it is just time for them a free from a cost perspective.

Some put them high up on telephone poles with staplers and pinwheels to draw attention. Almost anywhere in a large city or exit you will have laws against doing them as people view them as junkie. By having laws you control the look and feel of signs and what they are allowed to say for a community at large. It's the same thing with real estate development because if you didn't have controls in place people would build for the most profit regardless of if everything flowed and worked together or not.

Another option you can do is pay someone to have a sign on the intersection that says we buy houses etc. Some cities and counties do not have ordinances against that for a few hours a day. Even if they do people notice a person more than a small sign in the ground. In some suburban to rural areas people can get away with the yellow signs more as they are not policed as often.
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Michael Olesky
Investor · Indialantic, FL · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 76 votes
13y
Quote of the day "Bandit signs, cocaine, and robbing liquor stores. I guess bandits are the new gateway drug?" @SamCraven

I gave bandit signs a try once, I think our ordinances prohibit it or at least limit it to just the weekend, it's been awhile. Although i saw other investor's signs, company signs and garage sale signs, I still felt like i had to sneak around to put them out to avoid being hassled in the least or real trouble at the worst.

One night, I did a uturn in a neighborhood and had a home owner that saw me get in his truck and wild man chase me down for about five miles until I hit a red light. His house had been broken into the night before and he thought they had come back, he got out of his car at an intersection and came to my window yelling so I had an industrial 16" long stapler in my right hand as i cracked my window to hear what he had to say. I pointed at the bandit signs in my front seat with the large stapler in my hand and the guy apologized and explained why he followed me. But he was ready to do something if i was who he thought i was so he probably had a gun. I know this is an extreme story but a legitimate business doesn't find itself in this situation so to me there has to be something wrong with it.

On a side note - i did get a lot of calls from the ones i put out before that encounter, but no good ones!
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