ATTENTION PROPERTY MANAGERS ‼️ I Need Your Help

Engelo RumoraBusiness Member

Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

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James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Quote from @Alan F.:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Quit crying about someone willing to give you thousands of dollars per month. Negotiate and find a way to make it work!

Cool story bro.

"Willing to gIvE thousands of dollars " lol

This is prolly the dude with the 189 units hahah.

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James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
2y
@Engelo Rumora what are you using for virtual showings.
We have done well with showmojo integration into things, and I have been testing and refining automated e-mail/text in concert to tenant inquiries, kind of tying the various systems use and user instructions together via that automated conversational part.
Taking it ai is next level but I think that's a ways off still.
But for fully virtual showings, every attempt has been a horrible failure. Whole assortment of reasons. It's just never worked out. Curious what your doing on that front.
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Hamling:

@Engelo Rumora what are you using for virtual showings.
We have done well with showmojo integration into things, and I have been testing and refining automated e-mail/text in concert to tenant inquiries, kind of tying the various systems use and user instructions together via that automated conversational part.
Taking it ai is next level but I think that's a ways off still.
But for fully virtual showings, every attempt has been a horrible failure. Whole assortment of reasons. It's just never worked out. Curious what your doing on that front.

Tenant Turner.

They are the best IMO.

Had calls with ShowMojo and Rently and a few others also.

ShowMojo is decent also.

You have to do tutorial video's on how to use the bloody thing and really train the customer in order for it to work.

There is an implementation curve that takes some time.

If it can work in Toledo, I'm sure it can work anywhere haha

Colleen.ai is next for us

Will help with rent collections, follow ups, Q&A, etc...

Really excited about Colleen lol
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Adam BartomeoBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Quit crying about someone willing to give you thousands of dollars per month. Negotiate and find a way to make it work!
[email protected]239-339-3969
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Quit crying about someone willing to give you thousands of dollars per month. Negotiate and find a way to make it work!

Cool story bro.
4 Reply
Codie Walker
Member since 2020 · 1 post · 0 votes
2y
Sound like a they trying to do 2 things. Micro manage and get cheaper prices. I have started my own PM company and I have started with someone thats been doing this for 20years. We have maintenance, painters, ac technicians, etc. But what we are doing, is allowing them to talk to my contractors but my contractors are working for me so we are working hand and hand because I have a fee from our contractors for each job we get them. So, there price is there price but they just add our fee on top that way we both get paid.
0 Reply
Alan F.
Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Quit crying about someone willing to give you thousands of dollars per month. Negotiate and find a way to make it work!

Cool story bro.
"Willing to gIvE thousands of dollars " lol
1 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Alan F.:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Quit crying about someone willing to give you thousands of dollars per month. Negotiate and find a way to make it work!

Cool story bro.
"Willing to gIvE thousands of dollars " lol

This is prolly the dude with the 189 units hahah.
4 Reply
Calvin Thomas
Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Quit crying about someone willing to give you thousands of dollars per month. Negotiate and find a way to make it work!

You’re right.

We just told them to “give” us tens of thousands of dollars per month.

I think they started crying now haha
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
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1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Codie Walker:

Sound like a they trying to do 2 things. Micro manage and get cheaper prices. I have started my own PM company and I have started with someone thats been doing this for 20years. We have maintenance, painters, ac technicians, etc. But what we are doing, is allowing them to talk to my contractors but my contractors are working for me so we are working hand and hand because I have a fee from our contractors for each job we get them. So, there price is there price but they just add our fee on top that way we both get paid.

Hi Codie,

Thanks for your reply.

How much do you trust your contractors?
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
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Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
Calvin Thomas
Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

Engelo, how many units do you have under management?
0 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

It’s actually not a problem at all

I haven’t yet witnessed a leaner operation than ours or more profitable.

Our profit margins are between 40-50%

Average for PM’s is 6-10% and that’s why many have such low valuations.

Another reason why we are looking toward M&A to grow quicker and optimize the acquired under our operation.

We know our numbers well but won’t work for free 😎
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

Engelo, how many units do you have under management?

400 and growing quickly.

With our tech and automation that we have in place, could add another 200 tomorrow and won’t skip much of a beat 🙏
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

Engelo, how many units do you have under management?

400 and growing quickly.

With our tech and automation that we have in place, could add another 200 tomorrow and won’t skip much of a beat 🙏

Huh.... I would have incorrectly assumed a lot more to be honest....
With that, yeah $20 per mnth per door, it's a bit expensive but you are at a rather small size and positioning not for this size but growth, growing ain't cheap right.
0 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

Engelo, how many units do you have under management?

400 and growing quickly.

With our tech and automation that we have in place, could add another 200 tomorrow and won’t skip much of a beat 🙏

Huh.... I would have incorrectly assumed a lot more to be honest....
With that, yeah $20 per mnth per door, it's a bit expensive but you are at a rather small size and positioning not for this size but growth, growing ain't cheap right.

That's the beautiful thing about tech and automation.
It can take some time to set up and integrate and implement processes.
But once done properly, you can scale quicker and easier and not be worried to take on a book of 189 units per se when the opportunity presents itself.
I reverse engineered "scale" within our company and focused on systems and optimizing.
Now it's time to monetize 🙏
Getting very close to being able to throw gasoline on the fire for scale.
We could scale easier in another market but to be honest, not in the mood of being like some of the other nation wide PM's where they do M&A nationwide.
Plus, I'm "semi-retired" and prefer to keep it that way haha
There are limits to growth in our local market but it's not necessary a bad thing.
Cheers mate
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

Engelo, how many units do you have under management?

400 and growing quickly.

With our tech and automation that we have in place, could add another 200 tomorrow and won’t skip much of a beat 🙏

Huh.... I would have incorrectly assumed a lot more to be honest....
With that, yeah $20 per mnth per door, it's a bit expensive but you are at a rather small size and positioning not for this size but growth, growing ain't cheap right.

That's the beautiful thing about tech and automation.
It can take some time to set up and integrate and implement processes.
But once done properly, you can scale quicker and easier and not be worried to take on a book of 189 units per se when the opportunity presents itself.
I reverse engineered "scale" within our company and focused on systems and optimizing.
Now it's time to monetize 🙏
Getting very close to being able to throw gasoline on the fire for scale.
We could scale easier in another market but to be honest, not in the mood of being like some of the other nation wide PM's where they do M&A nationwide.
Plus, I'm "semi-retired" and prefer to keep it that way haha
There are limits to growth in our local market but it's not necessary a bad thing.
Cheers mate

Yeah, were national, and it's not all unicorn-fart's and rainbows that's for sure.
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
OP
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

Engelo, how many units do you have under management?

400 and growing quickly.

With our tech and automation that we have in place, could add another 200 tomorrow and won’t skip much of a beat 🙏

Huh.... I would have incorrectly assumed a lot more to be honest....
With that, yeah $20 per mnth per door, it's a bit expensive but you are at a rather small size and positioning not for this size but growth, growing ain't cheap right.

That's the beautiful thing about tech and automation.
It can take some time to set up and integrate and implement processes.
But once done properly, you can scale quicker and easier and not be worried to take on a book of 189 units per se when the opportunity presents itself.
I reverse engineered "scale" within our company and focused on systems and optimizing.
Now it's time to monetize 🙏
Getting very close to being able to throw gasoline on the fire for scale.
We could scale easier in another market but to be honest, not in the mood of being like some of the other nation wide PM's where they do M&A nationwide.
Plus, I'm "semi-retired" and prefer to keep it that way haha
There are limits to growth in our local market but it's not necessary a bad thing.
Cheers mate

Yeah, were national, and it's not all unicorn-fart's and rainbows that's for sure.

Renters Warehouse mate,

Didn't you guys just sell to the Japanese?

Super low price per door due some debt burdens is what I read?

I know Brenton, he retired ages ago and went into politics lol

Smart fella
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Calvin Thomas:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

The team (@Dominique Osborn, @Sean Mahoney) and myself have an opportunity to on-board 189 units.

This would be a very nice "chunk" of new business but to be honest, I'm inclined to pass.

I have always believed in doing business on your terms and for terms not to be dictated by someone else.

Especially when you are looking to hire us/me to do the work for you.

Also, business done right needs to be a win/win for all involved and this doesn't seem like a win for us.

I do however understand the caution and reluctancy to "let go of the reigns" per se as many landlords get screwed by property managers.

But at the end of the day, you have to "let go" and let someone else do it or just do it all yourself.

I'd love your advice on the suggested terms given to us below:

1) In AppFolio they want admin level access to their account.

2) They want a standardized list for maintenance items so they know in advance what repairs would cost.

3) They want a copy of all invoices from contractors to us so they can verify we are not marking up more than promised.

4) They want to be able to talk to our contractors before work is done (each time) so they can talk contractors down in price themselves.

5) They mentioned that they pay around $300 for full paint in a 2-bedroom unit.... we do not have a contractor that will touch a full paint on a 2 bedroom for $300

6) They want tiered PM Fees based on occupancy.... for example (their example): at 90% they would pay 8% PM fees, at 70% occupancy they would pay 2% PM Fees, and at 50% occupancy we would part ways.

The deal breaker in my opinion is points 4, 5 and 6.

With the lack of oversight/control on maintenance we have little control over the occupancy and it kills our process and efficiency.

So in a way, we are destined to fail from day 1.

Also, if someone does want so much control why not just self manage.

The unit count justifies hiring 1-2 full time people to run it.

Otherwise, let us do our job.

@Drew Sygit and @Jay Hinrichs I'd appreciate your professional opinion.

@James Wise I already know your answer but want to hear your unprofessional opinion so I feel better about my own thought process haha

Thanks everyone

Pass. At 2%, you'd not be making any money; but will have plenty of headaches. Nothing wrong with the transparency, but 300.00 for a 2 room apartment. Can they send their workers over here to NYC? Who's paying the Appfolio fees for their property? Do you charge a min. per unit?

Hi Calvin,

We pay for all property management technology fee's, etc... and that isn't a separate bill per se.

Those are our standard operational expenses so on us to pay for.

It would be like McDonalds charging a per burger fee for tech they use haha

With that said, many folks don't realize how much it costs to be a full time "property manager" and not par time property manager like many realtors are forced to become due to client demand.

When you are a brokerage and only focused on property management and not sales, it becomes a very expensive exercise making your company efficient and being able to offer an above par service to tenants and landlords.

We have around $100,000 per year in expenses just in the various tech we use and it only get's more and more expensive as we grow our book of business.

Thanks

That might be your problem. We manage a little over 400 properties that we own and operate in NYC, NJ, CT and Philly. You should look to see how you can cut the fat and automate where you are able.

Engelo, how many units do you have under management?

400 and growing quickly.

With our tech and automation that we have in place, could add another 200 tomorrow and won’t skip much of a beat 🙏

Huh.... I would have incorrectly assumed a lot more to be honest....
With that, yeah $20 per mnth per door, it's a bit expensive but you are at a rather small size and positioning not for this size but growth, growing ain't cheap right.

That's the beautiful thing about tech and automation.
It can take some time to set up and integrate and implement processes.
But once done properly, you can scale quicker and easier and not be worried to take on a book of 189 units per se when the opportunity presents itself.
I reverse engineered "scale" within our company and focused on systems and optimizing.
Now it's time to monetize 🙏
Getting very close to being able to throw gasoline on the fire for scale.
We could scale easier in another market but to be honest, not in the mood of being like some of the other nation wide PM's where they do M&A nationwide.
Plus, I'm "semi-retired" and prefer to keep it that way haha
There are limits to growth in our local market but it's not necessary a bad thing.
Cheers mate

Yeah, were national, and it's not all unicorn-fart's and rainbows that's for sure.

Renters Warehouse mate,

Didn't you guys just sell to the Japanese?

Super low price per door due some debt burdens is what I read?

I know Brenton, he retired ages ago and went into politics lol

Smart fella

Yeah, that's isn't the half of it. GA Technologies. We are now the USA leg of the international organization. Things didn't go so great after Nasdaq listing, yeah that's the PC way to say it, lol. The transaction was..... complex, yeah let's just say "complex", lol. Company was acquired not bought out. (for those who don't understand significance of "acquired" vs sold, sorry that's a whole other thread).
I can't speak publicly on much of these things but if utilize translator function GA Tech. has done some public disclosures themself of general strategic alignment and forward focus of things.
I have not gotten drunk on the kool-aid myself, some of it seems a bit optimistic vs realistic in my opinions but we will see, it's surprising what one can do when throw a few dozen million at it.
Honestly one of the biggest issues I see us having is nearly half of what we do is undisclosed or unknown to general public. Not "secret" per say but, well, just done in a way to really focus on not being "loud" in the endeavor. Which I support 100% and do a lot in anonymity for clients but we should be doing 100X more to inform persons/public of what we do, have done and can do for others.
Not sure what your seeing is "price" but I sure wouldn't call it cheap in any regards, so maybe not seeing the entire math of it. Again, I can't publicly disclose but it's gotta be one of if not "the" highest price a PMc ever fetched. Many many many millions. But again, acquired so that is a bit different too.
Yeah, Brenton, I miss em. I'm "old guard" though. Some have different feelings it seems.
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