Wholesaling: How to start with no experience, knowledge, credit, or money

Wholesaling: How to start with no experience, knowledge, credit, or money

Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes

There are a lot of people who want to start investing in real estate, but don't know where to start. Wholesaling is by far the best way to get started. It requires no training, knowledge, cash, credit, or experience. Now this is not to say that mistakes(sometimes costly ones) can't be made in wholesaling, but it is by far the simplest and cheapest way to get into real estate investing. You don't need to be an expert, but you need to pay attention, follow through, and execute the steps below. Depending on how much time and effort you can put into wholesaling, you could quite possibly replace your current income/job and become a full-time wholesaler if you choose to. The more experience you gain, the easier it will be for you, the more streamlined the process will become for you, and the more you will make. Read the full post and take action. Good luck to everyone!

Step #1

GET CASH BUYERS

You can do this by advertising, going to local real estate investment meetings/clubs, putting up bandit signs(if they are legal in your area), using craigslist, going to tax sales or sheriff's sales(all cash buyers), building a website and driving traffic to it, or you can pay for access to a list(just google "cash buyer's list).

Make sure that when the cash buyers call you, that you find out what types of properties they want, how many beds/baths, square footage, what area they want properties in, what price range, if they are buying with all cash, how quickly they can close, etc. Get as much info as possible so you are only bringing them the deals they want.

Step #2

GETTING FUNDING IN PLACE BEFORE DOING ANY DEALS

You need to have funding in place in order to wholesale. The funding will have nothing to do with your credit, job time, income, etc. You are looking for "transactional funding." This is very short term funding, typically used for 1 day. You will obviously have to pay interest to use the funding, even though it is only for 1 day. You need to have a property under contract with a seller, and a contract with a cash buyer to purchase the property from you before most transactional funding companies will fund a deal for you. Google "transactional funding" to find some possible funding companies to work with. Call them and find out what their requirements are before making any offers. Some might have a minimum amount they will fund, and they will all charge various rates for their funding. Make sure you know how much you will be paying to use their funding and all the other details.

Step #3

FIND PROPERTIES

Although some people might think it's best to go after properties listed in your local MLS system, for sale by owners, of REO's(bank owned properties), there will be a ton of competition with more experience and deeper pockets going after those same deals. The way to get the best deals with the least amount of competition is by finding vacant properties. You can find them by driving around and finding them(look for a lockbox on the door but no sign in the yard, tall grass, no window coverings, piled up newspapers, etc.)

Once you find the properties, then you have to mail a letter to the owner of that property. Make sure you get some comps on the properties you are interested in right away. Make notes you can find easily(on your computer, smart phone, or a notebook). After you get your comps, run some numbers on the property to see what your maximum purchase price is. NEVER go over that amount, or it will not be a good deal for you. When a vacant property owner calls you after you have pulled comps and run the numbers, you will be prepared to make them an offer over the phone in case they ask for one. When you talk to them, find out all you can about the property. Find out why they are selling and whatnot.

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*****FORMULA FOR MAKING AN OFFER*****

ARV(After repaired value)

X 70%

- Repairs

= Your selling price to a cash buyer

Selling price to cash buyer

- Your Profit( I use 10% of the ARV)

- Closing Costs

- Miscellaneous Fees(Interest, Points, etc.)

= MPP(Maximum Purchase Price- The Most you can pay for a property)

My initial offer is 85% of my MPP. This gives me the possibility to get the property at an even better price than my MPP if the seller accepts.

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Step #4

PUTTING A DEAL UNDER CONTRACT

Once you have gotten a cash buyers list going and have found properties that will match your cash buyer's requirements, then you need to put a property under contract. You do this by having your real estate agent put together a purchase agreement. If you don't have an agent, call around and find one that works with investors. This way when you make a lowball offer on something, they won't be shocked. A purchase agreement is a contract offering to buy a property. When your agent submits an offer for you, in the purchase agreement, you will need to put in the amount of earnest money(deposit) you will be putting up. This can be anything from $10-$100 or more depending on the seller. Being as you are new to this, I would try to put up as little as possible. You can decide how much you put up when your agent completes the purchase agreement for you.

Once your offer is submitted to the seller, they will either say "No", "Yes", or will not reply at all. If they counter offer, then you are not obligated to purchase the property. You can look at their counter offer price, see if it is less than your maximum purchase price and if it is acceptable, and reply via your agent with "Yes", "No", or with your own counter offer price. Sometimes, the numbers just won't work for you or the seller, and a deal will not happen. Other times, it will work. Once an offer or counter is accepted by you and the seller, you will typically have 30 days to close on the property. The closing date will be given to you by the title/closing company doing the closing on your purchase of the property. If you can't sell the property to a cash buyer within the 30 days or by the closing date, you will lose your earnest money deposit, and some credibility. Try to make sure you are putting the right properties under contract, which are properties that your cash buyer's requested. Don't put a property under contract that is a 3 bed/2 bath by a freeway when one of your cash buyers said they want a 3/2 in a quiet neighborhood. You will get stuck with it, not be able to sell it, and lose the deal.

Make sure your real estate agent puts in a 7 day inspection period in the purchase agreement. This will give you 7 days to have a contractor look at the property, tell you what repairs need to be done, and give you an estimate. Make sure your repair costs that are figured into your numbers prior to making any offer are pretty accurate. If the contractor finds something major with the property that just won't work for you, you can back out of the deal with the seller and still get your earnest money back, and lose no credibility.

Once you have had the property checked out by a contractor, or multiple contractors, then if everything is good and the numbers make sense, then you need to start calling your cash buyers ASAP!

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*****IMPORTANT NOTE*****

If you can't get a cash buyer to put a property under contract with you within 1 week after your offer to a seller is accepted, reduce your price. If you can't get a cash buyer to put it under contract with you within 2 weeksafter your offer is accepted by a seller, drop the price again to your cost. You won't make any money, but you won't get stuck with it and won't lose your earnest money.

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Step #5

FLIPPING A PROPERTY TO A CASH BUYER

Now that you know you got a great deal, and got it at the right price, you need to contact your cash buyers with this property. Call them and tell them that you have a property for them which matches their requirements. Tell them that you already have some buyers looking for the same properties, but as a courtesy to them, you wanted to give them first crack at it. Obviously you are lying, but you need to put pressure on them to buy this property right away so you don't get stuck with it. If someone calls you about buying this property, tell them(Just a suggestion. You do not have to say the following if you don't feel comfortable with it) "I think it's already sold, but let me check." Wait a few seconds, and say "Actually, it is still available. It must have been the other property that we just sold." Then proceed to get them to take action. This way, it looks like you are doing deals regularly even if you are new. Always have the right info and answers for buyers and sellers, or you will look like an amateur to them, and they likely won't work with you. If the cash buyer you are trying to sell this property to is not interested, start contacting anyone else who is looking for this type of property and do the same thing. If no one is buying it, then you might have missed the mark on this property. Maybe the size is too small or it's not exactly in the right neighborhood.

Step #6

CLOSING

If you talk to a cash buyer who is interested, let them know that you require a $2,000 earnest money deposit by escrow to secure this property. Your buyer can do this by depositing the $2,000 in escrow with the title/closing company you will be using to close both your purchase from the seller, and your sale to your cash buyer. If you do not have a title/closing company, call around and find one that works with investors. Let them know that you will be doing "back-to-back" or "double-closes." Let them know that you already have "wet-funds" in place. Wet funds means you will be closing and purchasing a property and paying for it in full.

When you do a "double-close", you are closing in the morning, and then doing a second close later that same day. So you are essentially "buying" a property in the morning on the day of closing from a seller, and "selling" it again later the same day to your cash buyer.

Step #7

GETTING PAID

Once both of your closes have taken place, you will be paid by the title/closing company the same day or the next. Typically, it will be by check. If not, then they may wire the money directly to your bank account. That's it! You're done, and made good money with very little effort. Now go do it over and over and again!

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by Chris Piper:
Wholesaling is by far the best way to get started. It requires no training, knowledge, cash, credit, or experience.

Thanks for the chuckle...

If this were true, wouldn't everyone who has ever attempted wholesaling have succeeded?

See this reply in the discussion

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:
    Wholesaling is by far the best way to get started. It requires no training, knowledge, cash, credit, or experience.

    Thanks for the chuckle...

    If this were true, wouldn't everyone who has ever attempted wholesaling have succeeded?

  • Specialist · Westlake Village, CA · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 781 votes
    12y

    @J Scott

    I am chuckling too. Being a good wholesaler takes a great deal of knowledge and training in my opinion, and I have immense respect for those that do it well and are professional. If you don't have cash, credit, knowledge, training or experience, You better get some or you will starve.

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y

    @J Scott So the same question you asked would apply to your books and training then right? Every person you've ever taught to flip a house has succeeded right? "I'll take "Only in my Dreams" for $500 please Alex."

    Obviously that little jab was to prove a point. The point is that no matter how many people you show how to do anything, whether they pay for it or whether it's free, 99% of them will fail because people are naturally lazy.

    I guarantee you that the detailed post I put up is enough information to get someone through their first wholesale deal. Granted, it does not cover every single detail, question, situation that can happen when you are a wholesaler, but a lot of that will come from experience. You can't have experience without doing something first to gain it. It's an oxymoron. Like when employers say "You don't have any experience." Umm, DUH. Why the hell do you think I'm applying for this job? To get experience." Whether anyone chooses to utilize the information I posted is entirely up to them. I posted that for people who genuinely want to learn how to become a wholesaler. That is enough to get them going, and they will pick-up the rest as they go. That's how you get experience............from experience.

    All anyone needs to start wholesaling is drive and fundamentals. If you have the fundamentals and the drive to execute them, then you should be golden.

    @Ellis San Jose If wholesaling requires a great deal of knowledge and training, why would anyone waste their time learning how to be a wholesaler making $5K-$10K per deal, when they could learn how to become a rehabber and make $20K-$100K per deal?

    And the answer is........because rehabbing requires a different set of skills, different funding, different knowledge, it has much higher risk involved, etc. As I said, you can actually wholesale with just the basics. Obviously becoming a good wholesaler is the goal which will result in: things becoming much easier, your cash buyers will love working with you, you will be able to negotiate better deals, and generate a higher profit per deal.

    I was just trying to help out some newbies. It appears that neither you nor J Scott are wholesalers. You deal with notes, and J deals with rehabs. That leads me to believe that you two are not expert wholesalers, which in turn would mean that you might not know exactly how simple wholesaling can be if you have the basics. I could be wrong, but I'm just guessing here.

    A moron could make $10K as a wholesaler by getting lucky and coming across an amazing deal. Obviously luck will only get you so far, but the point is a moron could not rehab a house and sell it successfully making $50K or buy/sell a note without some training. Either way, why would you guys make negative comments? Why not encourage people helping people? Why not post a complete A-Z on how to buy and sell notes? It is because you and J are selling products/services through your websites, and I am not. Did you see any link to any website of mine where I sell a service or product? Of course you didn't. You guys keep chuckling, while I try to help people become successful real estate investors.

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y

    *******UPDATE********

    When I said you don't need any money in my post, I didn't literally mean NO money. You will need at least a little money, but in theory, you could get away with as little as $12 or less total to get started.

    Say you find a house by driving neighborhoods, you send a letter to the property owner( $0.44 for a stamp, maybe $1.07 including tax for a box of envelopes from the Dollar Tree, and maybe $0.15 to print a letter at your local library). The seller contacts you, you negotiate a deal and include putting up a $10 earnest money deposit, you flip the property to a cash buyer you found on Craigslist, and you get paid $5K-$10K maybe more. Your total investment was $11.66.

  • Wholesaler · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 336 posts · 54 votes
    12y

    @Chris Piper It is a good article for getting people start. I have seen a lot of new people to the community and the first question they ask is? Where do I get started without reading the forums, educating themselves, or simply doing their due diligence before asking a question? I have learned a lot of the past couple weeks and my first deal still eludes me... However, I have decided to get off the bench and now getting ready to be part of the line up. I am one or two weeks away from my first deal.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:
    @J Scott So the same question you asked would apply to your books and training then right? Every person you've ever taught to flip a house has succeeded right?

    Absolutely not. And you know why? Because rehabbing requires a healthy combination of training, knowledge, cash, credit and experience...and to tell people otherwise would be disingenuous. Likewise with wholesaling, which might require less cash/credit, but which I would argue requires even more knowledge and experience than rehabbing.

    As just one example, you provide the 70% rule as the basis for determining an offer price on a property. How do you suppose a new wholesaler is going to determine ARV and rehab costs without any training, knowledge or experience? Sure, they could pay agents, appraisers, inspectors and contractors to help with these things, but that requires money, right? And they could read some tutorials and practice (a lot), but that's training, knowledge and experience, right?

    Ask any rehabber what the biggest turn-off about dealing with a wholesaler is, and they'll tell you that it's getting deals that aren't really deals. That happens when someone who has no training, knowledge or experience puts a house under contract and then starts marketing the deal to rehabbers. This is the best way to ruin your reputation and lose your entire buyers list very quickly. And when you burn through your buyers list, your wholesaling days are pretty much numbered.

    That's only one example of where your "no training, knowledge, cash, credit or experience" claim is far off. In the 6 years I've been on BP, I've seen hundreds (maybe thousands) of potential wholesalers come here and say how excited they are to start wholesaling. Most of them had no training, knowledge, cash, credit or experience. And, most of them failed. According to your claim, that shouldn't have been the case.

    So, what were they all missing? Were ALL of them lazy? Were ALL of the unintelligent? Were ALL of them unlucky?

    Btw, just to be clear, what you posted above is awesome and admirable, and I don't mean to discourage helping others (I apologize if I'm coming off as attacking)...what you posted will go a LONG way towards helping new wholesalers jump in the game. I just think the claims about "no training, knowledge, cash, credit or experience" takes things a bit too far.

    Tone down the "guru" claims, and your post above is awesome...

  • Insurance Agent · AZ · Member since 2013 · 306 posts · 161 votes
    12y

    I appreciated this post immensely. I am not interested in becoming a wholesaler; however, having read a lot here on BP, as well as listening to podcast, it appears that the vast majority of (successful) wholesalers indicate that in order for a wholesale deal to be transacted successfully - qualifying your cash buyers is critical in securing the property THEY will want to buy.

    As someone else pointed out in another thread, it serves no purpose to go out and negotiate for a 2bd/1bth home, when there is no appetite from the buyers for those types of deals. It's a balancing act to align both buyers with properties, but I think the savvy wholesalers (which obviously will come with experience) learn how to listen to what their buyers want, and then goes out there and finds that deal. It's definitely not an easy proposition, but as Chris has outlined in his detailed post, if a person has the desire and tenacity, it is possible.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    ROTFLMAO!

    Obviously what we have here is the beginning of another guru with hype and a misconception of what "finding a property" entails, or just "find cash buyers" even suggesting the above, no money, no credit and no knowledge.

    Is it even logical or remotely reasonable to think that just anyone can walk out the door one day and go do any type of money making activity that is more sophisticated than hard labor and just make it happen and make money?

    B.T. Barnum "There's a fool born every minute" (I believe) so are our readers those fools ? Or, do they have the skills to find the other two fools, a buyer and a seller?

    Good point J. :)

  • Real Estate Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2013 · 415 posts · 84 votes
    12y

    Hahaha. I was waiting for @Bill Gulley to see this one. LOL I always get a kick out of what you have to say :)

  • Insurance Agent · AZ · Member since 2013 · 306 posts · 161 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Bill Gulley:
    ROTFLMAO!

    Obviously what we have here is the beginning of another guru with hype and a misconception of what "finding a property" entails, or just "find cash buyers" even suggesting the above, no money, no credit and no knowledge.

    Is it even logical or remotely reasonable to think that just anyone can walk out the door one day and go do any type of money making activity that is more sophisticated than hard labor and just make it happen and make money?

    B.T. Barnum "There's a fool born every minute" (I believe) so are our readers those fools ? Or, do they have the skills to find the other two fools, a buyer and a seller?

    Good point J. :)

    With anything, I think that you get out of it, what you put into it. I am not so obtuse to think that with any endeavor (specifically RE) that there is no money or knowledge that is necessary to make it work; however, as many have said on various posts, "You have to get off the sidelines and play in the game."

    I thought that was the whole point of BP, in that it is a place for people to come and learn about RE. What works for one may not always work for another, and yes, it is imperative for people to do their own due diligence, but I honestly read Chris' posts as more of a call to action, in that, if a person really wants to make it wholesaling, then they have to get out there and do it. Obviously, the more knowledge one has the better armed they are, but at some point, you have to get off the sidelines and play.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Chante, I can see how you may have read the post that way, after you're here longer, you'll see the more devious side to such posts, just wait. The advocates of "RE is easy" come and go. Wasn't just my impression, note the top responses.:)

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Chanté Owens:
    ...it appears that the vast majority of (successful) wholesalers indicate that in order for a wholesale deal to be transacted successfully - qualifying your cash buyers is critical in securing the property THEY will want to buy.

    In my experience, focusing on the buyer side of the wholesaling equation is absolutely the backwards way of doing things. If you hand me a great deal anywhere in the country, I'll find you a buyer in 12 hours...even if I've never been to that place and don't know a single person in that city. Once you have a great deal, finding buyers is easy -- BiggerPockets, Craigslist, your local REIA, eBay, For Rent signs, etc.

    Finding the great deals is the tough part of wholesaling. Focusing on the buyers is just a way of wasting time when you don't want to do the important/tough work...

  • Insurance Agent · AZ · Member since 2013 · 306 posts · 161 votes
    12y

    @Bill Gulley I guess I need to take off my rose colored glasses =)

    @J Scott I have a lot to learn, so I appreciate all the comments I read and the education I'm getting from this site: the good, the bad and the ugly.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Chante, may be, too bad we assume the worst first, but those advocating such approaches are usually guilty.

    I'll take you up on that @J. Scott (you're never works, I think it's the initial)

    You won't find a buyer in every area just because you found some deal, unless it's such a low ridiculous price and in decent shape.

    The landlords or buy and hold types are very selective as to locations and property requirements. Just searching records here won't tell you whoa buyer will be in a day.

    Knowing 20 buyers and knowing what they want should work anywhere, you can call and run down what you might have before ever talking to a seller.

    I've seen too many get hung holding properties they thought they'd flip in 30 days and end up renting them. Including first time flipper Realtors thinking they knew investors and the market.

    Nothing urkes me more than someone acting like they are a buyer, taking a property off the market then failing to find a buyer in time and having to walk way because they didn't have their stuff together and can't buy. That goes to most wholesalers, not you J. as you'd buy it, but let's keep in mind that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush for most others.

    This takes knowledge, just to stay on topic.

    Just be it known, you may have very active buyers in populated areas, a million in population, you get in smaller market areas, investors who do buy will have 50 excuses why they don't want that property or that location, or they aren't buying anymore this years, or my funds are tied up.

    There are only three in my area that continue to buy and they are selective as to areas and type home, everyone else that has rentals are more occasional buyers.

    Depends on the market and not all markets are the same. So, on the conservative side, know what your buyers want and if they are really in the market, that means staying in touch. Just running out buying what you think may be a good deal can be a mistake and cause problems if you can't back up your offer. And, no, I don't use weasel clauses as eventually that's a reflection on your ability to do deals. :)

  • Wholesaler · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 336 posts · 54 votes
    12y

    @J Scott As a person who has never done a deal YET! I see both sides of the coin because I am still new but have learned a ton on BP. I am assuming Chris is trying to help the ton of new people who come on the sign and ask the question, "Where do I start and how do I wholesale a property?" Wholesaling is not easy at all especially when you have a full time job because it is another full time job. It very much does take money for marketing and does require time for networking with others. In majority of my post, I always say educating yourself is key. The one thing that still eludes me is being able to estimate rehab cost. So my question is besides experience, how do I even get educated on rehab costs?

    @Bill Gulley I have to admit, it is always good to see your post because it is always special and straight to the point. I am one of your biggest fans. One thing I initially learned from you is being honest, have integrity, and establish credibility. Although my first deal still escapes me, my education has allowed me to understand how much guru's are wrong, how much work is required, and lack of credibility is a death sentence waiting to happen. Just to stay on point, this forum is a really good one for new wholesalers. Although I know wholesaling is not easy, I am never a negative penny because it turns people off and away. I don't believe either J or yourself was trying to attach Chris but perception is reality and it can come across that way. Although, what Chris said is the same thing you hear on majority real estate podcasts and books. So with that being said, "Can we all just get along" because we are part of a great and legendary community.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by William T.:
    @J Scott As a person who has never done a deal YET! I see both sides of the coin because I am still new but have learned a ton on BP. I am assuming Chris is trying to help the ton of new people who come on the sign and ask the question, "Where do I start and how do I wholesale a property?"
    ....
    So my question is besides experience, how do I even get educated on rehab costs?

    Regarding your first point, I would argue that the BIGGEST reason most wholesalers fail is because they are psychologically under-prepared for the challenge they are undertaking. Everyone tells them that wholesaling is easy, doesn't require experience, doesn't require money, etc, etc, etc. They have that expectation, and when they find out that this isn't the reality of the situation, they give up.

    What percentage of people who start medical school end up getting through medical school and getting their license to practice medicine? The answer is close to 100%. What percentage of people who start wholesaling do their first deal? I'm guessing the answer is close to 0%.

    Is that because wholesaling is more difficult than medical school? I doubt it.

    The difference is, people recognize that becoming a doctor is difficult and they don't undertake the challenge unless they're ready to get their *** kicked and work their butt off. If people thought wholesaling was as difficult as medical school, I'm guessing those that jumped in would be a lot more successful.

    So, if you really want to help people succeed in wholesaling, stop telling them how easy it is. Instead, start telling them how tough and frustrating it is, how it will likely take months to do that first deal, how it will require visiting hundreds of houses and talking to hundreds of buyers and sellers. Those who are willing to jump in knowing how difficult it really is are much more likely to succeed than those who believe that you can be successful without any training, knowledge, cash, credit or experience. Which isn't true.

    As to your second point (about estimating rehab costs), I've actually written a book on that topic...check out the BP store...

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Bill Gulley:

    I'll take you up on that @J. Scott (you're never works, I think it's the initial)

    You won't find a buyer in every area just because you found some deal, unless it's such a low ridiculous price and in decent shape.


    Yes, my post was admittedly a bit hyperbole. But, that doesn't detract from the fact that finding buyers is much easier than finding great deals. If you find a great deal and you can't find a buyer, you're probably not choosing a great location to be wholesaling in the first place.

    See, yet another aspect of wholesaling that's not easy (evaluating a market)... :)

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Costs? Gotta know what stuff costs. You can get J. Scott's book it should be an excellent guide, just remember if it contradicts what I say, follow my advice, LOL!!!

    Really, wholesaling isn't easy, if you don't know what you're talking about you'll burry your reputation with buyers. They easy way may be not to say that much, a buyer is going to figure things out for themselves, might be better not to make representations, just unlock the door for them and let them decide.

    I'd say too, for those who think they have to "sell" a property, it's tough selling a salesman, don't go there. If what you have meets what they do, I just gave the address or met them and opened it up or made the appointment and just stay out of the way, a follow up phone call is all I ever did.

    Homes to owner occupied folks are sold, houses to investors sell themselves.

    I didn't think we weren't all getting along, LOL, :)

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y

    @Bill Gulley is as far as selling a deal. J said he could sell anything if it is a GREAT deal. I tend to believe that is the case, even though my first foray into things would be a counter example.

    The issue with is the quality of the deal. I will say that like 99% of newer wholesalers fall into 2 categories. The first are the ones that are struggling to find deals and the other are the ones that get stuff under contracts that aren't really deals.

    You have a lucky few that know what they need to buy and find something fairly quick to get encouraged and get some momentum.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Shaun Reilly:

    The issue with is the quality of the deal. I will say that like 99% of newer wholesalers fall into 2 categories. The first are the ones that are struggling to find deals and the other are the ones that get stuff under contracts that aren't really deals.

    Just to be clear, I think I'm a little above average when it comes to this real estate stuff, and I don't think I could make a living as a wholesaler. I find it hard enough to find deals that I can do as a rehabber; if I wanted to be a successful wholesaler, I'd have to find even better deals, since there would have to be enough "meat on the bone" left for my end-buyer.

    Maybe I'm just really bad at finding great deals, but I tend to believe that's actually kinda tough to do it consistently and at high volume... :-)

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    I suppose, I'd just not mess with something that isn't a really good deal and knowing darn near immediately if the property can be disposed of and how.

    I don't search for deals, at times they just slap me in the face. If you're out walking and talking you just bump into people who want to buy a home or sell a home, or who need help in getting rid of one or getting one on the market, it will change for everyone who sticks in there and stays in RE over time. It gets easier, it's usually rather simple and stuff will just fall in your lap. But it takes time for that. But, starting off and trying to make a living at it full time is hard work, no mistake about it. :)

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Shaun Reilly:
    The issue with is the quality of the deal. I will say that like 99% of newer wholesalers fall into 2 categories. The first are the ones that are struggling to find deals and the other are the ones that get stuff under contracts that aren't really deals.

    Just to be clear, I think I'm a little above average when it comes to this real estate stuff, and I don't think I could make a living as a wholesaler. I find it hard enough to find deals that I can do as a rehabber; if I wanted to be a successful wholesaler, I'd have to find even better deals, since there would have to be enough "meat on the bone" left for my end-buyer.

    Maybe I'm just really bad at finding great deals, but I tend to believe that's actually kinda tough to do it consistently and at high volume... :-)

    That is basically my point and the problem for people that tell people that wholesaling is easy.

    It is not. You have to find exceptionally good deals since they have to be good enough for the rehabber to want to buy it AFTER you take a reasonable fee for you time and effort. Then you have to find a LOT of them since you aren't making that much (usually) on each deal.

    Like in my area if you can make $10K average on a wholesale (I don't think most guys are making this much, probably between $5-10K usually) if you do one every other month you are making a decent living but aren't rolling in dough. However if I source my own deals and get that many that are good enough to have wholesaled for $10K I don't have to do anything else that year and I probably make at least a quarter million in profit.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    In fact, this whole wholesaling thing to me is pretty much a crock, I'd never even heard of it until I got to BP! Then I saw that some guru had devised this method, all it is amounts to selling properties a bit cheaper to landlords and fix and flip guys, what we called "quick sales". I'd get some properties through foreclosure, with the deed, and call people I knew to dump them. Then, I'd come across deal I didn't want to mess with and flipped them to others who would mess with them. Gosh, some even went at retail, put owners in there!

    I have also just come across a deal that had a spread, spin it off and not fool with taking it at all. Then I guess they started calling this wholesaling, I find it pretty silly as a niche as you should be taking down deals to put out to the public as well as other investors.

    So, yes, it's just nothing more than a fragment of selling inventory. I'd say it would be a tough way to make a living in most markets, but don't say anything to the gurus selling the stuff on "how to".

    If you really want to be in RE, learn RE and get out of the tiny niche market stuff. There are no secrets, get the basics and you can do any deal and put it in the appropriate box to sell your deal, or hold it for 3, 5 or 7 years and then toss it out when you hit the max off the tax benefits.

    Like playing monopoly with only one die, the best you can get is six! :)

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:
    @J Scott So the same question you asked would apply to your books and training then right? Every person you've ever taught to flip a house has succeeded right?

    Absolutely not. And you know why? Because rehabbing requires a healthy combination of training, knowledge, cash, credit and experience...and to tell people otherwise would be disingenuous. Likewise with wholesaling, which might require less cash/credit, but which I would argue requires even more knowledge and experience than rehabbing.

    As just one example, you provide the 70% rule as the basis for determining an offer price on a property. How do you suppose a new wholesaler is going to determine ARV and rehab costs without any training, knowledge or experience? Sure, they could pay agents, appraisers, inspectors and contractors to help with these things, but that requires money, right? And they could read some tutorials and practice (a lot), but that's training, knowledge and experience, right?

    Ask any rehabber what the biggest turn-off about dealing with a wholesaler is, and they'll tell you that it's getting deals that aren't really deals. That happens when someone who has no training, knowledge or experience puts a house under contract and then starts marketing the deal to rehabbers. This is the best way to ruin your reputation and lose your entire buyers list very quickly. And when you burn through your buyers list, your wholesaling days are pretty much numbered.

    That's only one example of where your "no training, knowledge, cash, credit or experience" claim is far off. In the 6 years I've been on BP, I've seen hundreds (maybe thousands) of potential wholesalers come here and say how excited they are to start wholesaling. Most of them had no training, knowledge, cash, credit or experience. And, most of them failed. According to your claim, that shouldn't have been the case.

    So, what were they all missing? Were ALL of them lazy? Were ALL of the unintelligent? Were ALL of them unlucky?

    Btw, just to be clear, what you posted above is awesome and admirable, and I don't mean to discourage helping others (I apologize if I'm coming off as attacking)...what you posted will go a LONG way towards helping new wholesalers jump in the game. I just think the claims about "no training, knowledge, cash, credit or experience" takes things a bit too far.

    Tone down the "guru" claims, and your post above is awesome...

    @J Scott I would just say that wholesaling and rehabbing are two completely different beasts, and each holds it's own challenges. I have done both, and wholesaling requires less everything: time, money, credit, etc. Obviously the hard part is locating real cash buyers who are ready to take action immediately when you bring them the deal they want.

    A newbie wholesaler would of course utilize the expertise of a real estate agent to determine the ARV. It doesn't cost anything up-front either. Granted, you will have to pay that 6% or whatever the case may be, but if that is all factored into your numbers before making any offers, then it won't effect your profit. Appraisers are never needed with wholesaling, so that is a moot point. Lastly, contractors don't charge anything to give you a quote, so utilizing them and their knowledge is another free tool that wholesalers can and should be using.

    I do 100% agree with you in that getting an unscrupulous wholesaler who is bringing you fire damaged houses in the hood when you want complete rehabs in good neighborhoods, is annoying and a waste of everyone's time. I don't feel like someone has to be experienced in wholesaling to be a good wholesaler. If you can just listen to what your cash buyers are telling you they want, and bring that to them at the right price, then it's not that complicated.

    Thanks for saying the post was awesome. It did feel like I was being attacked a bit, but not just by you. The ultimate point is that I personally feel that with the basic strategy and steps that I've posted, that anyone who is willing to put in the effort can succeed.

    By the way J, finding deals is pretty easy when you blast your town full of bandit signs. I have gotten TONS of calls from people selling their homes from bandit signs. Granted, not all of them are good deals, but they will surely get the phone ringing, and bring you properties to look at. Only a small percentage of them might result in a deal, but the ROI on the signs is amazing.

    @Chanté Owens Thanks for your support:)

    @William T. Wholesaling can be difficult and challenging at times. Without knowing the proper steps to take from start to finish of a wholesale deal, someone would just be wasting their time trying to figure it out on their own.

    You stated earlier that it is difficult to wholesale because it requires so much time. That can be true, but you don't have to make it a full-time gig unless you have that luxury. Most people start out part-time while working 40 hours a week. Then, once they have gotten better at it and are generating a good amount of income, then they can choose whether they want to do it full-time and leave their J.O.B.

    In regards to the money you need for advertising, it doesn't have to be a substantial amount. People can find cash buyers and motivated sellers simply by posting ads on Craigslist in some cases. I find that bandit signs and direct mail are worth the investment, but it's unlikely that someone just getting started in wholesaling will have much money to put into advertising. Obviously it helps, but it isn't necessary when first starting out.

    "The one thing that still eludes me is being able to estimate rehab cost. So my question is besides experience, how do I even get educated on rehab costs?"

    The best way when you're just starting out is to have multiple contractors give you estimates when you first go to inspect a property PRIOR to making any offers. What I would do is get a rough figure for each repair(which should be broken down in the estimate), put those figures in an excel spreadsheet, and then when you need to figure out how much for new kitchen cabinets, look at your spreadsheet, and it says "$3,000" or whatever it says. After a few deals, your spreadsheet should be almost completely filled with costs for each type of repair. Obviously you will need to update the spreadsheet every so often to make sure repair prices haven't changed drastically. I will say that the more accurate your repair costs are, the more credibility you will have with your cash buyers. Your repair costs don't have to e 100% accurate, but as close as possible. You can even include your bids from contractors if you want when you email a cash buyer with a property. Then they can see that you did the proper work ahead of time to give them an accurate price for repairs.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:

    A newbie wholesaler would of course utilize the expertise of a real estate agent to determine the ARV. It doesn't cost anything up-front either. Granted, you will have to pay that 6% or whatever the case may be, but if that is all factored into your numbers before making any offers, then it won't effect your profit. Appraisers are never needed with wholesaling, so that is a moot point. Lastly, contractors don't charge anything to give you a quote, so utilizing them and their knowledge is another free tool that wholesalers can and should be using.


    Exactly how many wholesale deals have you done? I'm not sure I'd agree with most of the advice in your post. You mention using real estate agents -- are you getting them to list the properties on the MLS before you buy them? Most MLS systems won't allow this. And then you mentioned using contractors to get free estimates -- I can't imagine you've done this more than a couple times before the contractors refuse to give you estimates anymore (as you're not actually using them to do any work). Even if you can find the contractors, in my opinion it's not very ethical to ask them to do work when there is no chance they'll ever get paid.

    Maybe this is working for you, but I'd think that an experienced wholesaler would be giving different advice...

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