Wholesaling in unethical... why or why not?

Wholesaling in unethical... why or why not?

Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes

Hi guys I was thinking about this today and just wanted to ask this question and see what  your opinion on the matter is. Many people in and out of real estate frown upon wholesaling. There are so many negative stigma's and opinions towards it. I just want to ask why do you think people view it as wrong, unethical or shady? I personally don't think it is any of those things, because I view it as every other aspect of real estate, problem solving. You are providing value and a solution for others. I know that there are some bad wholesalers just like there are bad people in every profession. I think this kind of trickles down and stems from the negative attitude towards people in real estate in general. As I have transitioned into wholesaling I have come to realize that it isn't all peaches and cream, and is actually very hard. Definitely not as easy as guru's and people on FB, and YouTube make it seem. I see many wholesalers work hard, help others, and provide value to both the seller and the investor, yet they are called "vultures" and seen as the bad guys. What would it take to change this? What is it going to take to change the overall view on real estate investors to a positive one?

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Investor · Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y

@Michael Guzik Don't waste your time trying to change the perceptions of the general public. There are only 3 groups of people who's opinions matter:

1. Sellers. If they're motivated they don't care about anything other than: "Can you solve my problem?"
2. Buyers. If they're motivated they don't care about anything other than: "Can you solve my problem?"
3. Friends and family. Just tell them you flip houses. They'll think you're a rock star.

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  • Investor · Hillsborough, NH · Member since 2015 · 137 posts · 126 votes
    8y

    This is a topic that has certainly been kicked around quite a lot.

    The main theme that I notice every time is that those who call themselves "wholesalers" (but are actually assignors) tend to push the conversation towards whether or not the practice is legal, even though the topic usually starts out concerning whether it is ethical. I think there is a pretty obvious reason for that.

    That issue aside, I think the answer to the question of ethics is fairly simple:

    a) If you tell a seller that you are going to buy their house, from your marketing pieces all the way to the execution of contract, but you have no intention of actually buying it, you are lying and, last time I checked, lying is unethical.

    b) If you explain to a seller that you have access to cash buyers who have no way of knowing about their house otherwise, and you intend to solve their problem by putting their home under contract and then assigning the contract to one of these buyers, then you are solving people's problems in an ethical manner and bravo to you; you are adding value and making money doing so.

    Many of you will say that sellers won't work with you unless you tell them that you are a cash buyer so you have no choice. If that's your excuse to purposefully lie to people, and you think that it therefore makes it okay, then you, in my opinion, are unethical. You always have a choice. If you believe that it becomes okay to lie to someone as long as the end result is that you are solving their problem, then your core principals need to be re-examined. 

    Bottom line is this: If you've never bought a house with cash, or even if you have but you have no intention of buying the one in question, then to represent otherwise is an intentional lie, and is therefore unethical.

    I think that @Doug P. put it perfectly in his first post on page 1 of this thread, and the number of votes he received is a good indication of where a lot of self-proclaimed "wholesalers" stand on this topic.

    Originally posted by @Doug Pretorius:

    @Michael Guzik Don't waste your time trying to change the perceptions of the general public. There are only 3 groups of people who's opinions matter:

    1. Sellers. If they're motivated they don't care about anything other than: "Can you solve my problem?"
    2. Buyers. If they're motivated they don't care about anything other than: "Can you solve my problem?"
    3. Friends and family. Just tell them you flip houses. They'll think you're a rock star.

    The perceived need to represent yourself as a cash-buyer, and the ethical justification that it's okay to do this even if it is a lie because you're solving their problem, is a slippery slope. Next thing you know, you're so used to misrepresenting what it is that you actually do, that you're advising others on a web forum to lie to their friends and family about what they do. What's perhaps even more troubling is that this advice got 19 votes! Come on people.

    Now, if you actually do buy houses, but you also assign ones that don't fit your specific criteria or when you have too many to handle yourself, then you are not lying, and you are not unethical in my opinion. If you also flip houses yourself, then saying so to your friends and family is obviously not a lie. However, if all you do is assign contracts from sellers whom you originally told that you buy houses, you are a liar, plain and simple. Don't lie to your friends and family too just to make them think you're a rock star...

    Lastly, if you are actually wholesaling, meaning that you close on the house with your own money, turn around, and resell it at a profit, then stating in your marketing and in person that you buy houses is perfectly fine because it is not a lie, and this thread doesn't really even apply to your model.

    No question I just p'd off a lot of people but, at least in my mind, the line between ethical and unethical is pretty clear.

  • Investor · Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Troy Zsofka Wow, you took my original reply literally 180 degrees opposite of its intent, and I hope you are equally as wrong about why it got so many votes.

    When I said that motivated sellers and buyers don't care, I meant that they don't care if you're assigning the contract, so tell them that's what you're going to do.

    For friends and family. They aren't involved in your deals and they don't care about the intricacies of real estate transactions. So boil down what you do to the basic concept. Flipping is selling a house for more than you paid for it, everyone can understand that. And wholesalers either flip houses or they flip contracts.

  • Realtor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    I think the most important factor here is FULL DISCLOSURE. Make sure the seller knows their options. I think some sellers are kept in the dark and that is where the ethical issues arise. If a seller knew that they could get more for the home if they listed with an agent, they may not want to wholesale. wholesaling is great for sellers who just don't want to go through the headache of listing their home even though they may make more money that way. Sellers also need to know that it is possible that the wholesaler may not find an investor to purchase the property at which point they will have to end up listing the home anyway or try selling themselves. As long as there is full disclosure, all is fine. Problem is, full disclosure could lose the wholesale business. When your business is in jeopardy if full disclosure is made, then you are probably doing shady business. One can rationalize how it is helping the seller, and it very well may be, provided the seller knew all their options up front. Some wholesalers do this. However, I know that some do not. Unfortunately, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole barrel. But in the wholesale business, my guess is there's probably more than a few. Because I don't think that most of them provide full disclosure. Nor could they, because unless they have access to an agent or the MLS, they would not know how much the seller could actually make on the sale of their property since they don't know the comp sales price in a non-disclosure state. This is why there is a negative perception.

    On the flip side, I must say that I am actually amazed and in awe of some friends of mine who do wholesale deals.  It tells me that they are excellent salespeople.  Because it is not easy to convince a seller that wholesaling is in their best interest.  However, they manage to make it happen; even after they give all the facts. 

  • Investor · Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Terry Kraemer Maybe your friends are the greatest salespeople on earth, but you don't have to be a great salesperson to do this. I certainly am not. I simply look for sellers who have already tried listing, selling or renting the place themselves and failed. Those sellers don't need convincing, they already know they need me before we speak.

  • Investor · Hillsborough, NH · Member since 2015 · 137 posts · 126 votes
    8y

    @Doug P. -

    Apparently I misunderstood your post entirely and jumped to the conclusion that you were justifying the tactics used by so many wholesalers who misrepresent themselves every day.

    My sincerest apologies for that. 

    Anyone who is honest with their clients about what they do is, in my book, acting ethically. The legality of it is probably more nuanced and varies by locale, but as far as I'm concerned, as long as there is no deception involved, the ethics are clean, and an action can be ethical while still violating a technical provision of the law. Anyway, having never assigned a deal, I don't concern myself with the legalities and am no expert on the matter.

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