Full time wholesalers
Flipper/Rehabber · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 53 votes
Full time wholesalers
Most Popular Reply
Wholesaler · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2015 · 216 posts · 146 votes
7yI tend to scroll through BP when I’m laying my son down but rarely post. This discussion spurred me to make a rare exception.
Wholesaleing is not illegal or at least not in Texas. I’ve closed 8 deals in 2017, 21 in 2018, and 9 so far this year. Why only 9, because I’ve graduated to the next stage and involved in 2 flips. Wholesaleing has been and always will be my baseline to find deals for whatever strategy I want to pursue ( rehabs, rentals, owner finance, etc).
On to the seller side of things. Most of these properties need a ton of work and most agents won’t touch them without a cleanup and work done to them that costs money that the seller doesn’t have. They are distressed and need someone with knowledge to help them. That’s where I come in and I am compensated well for it.
EVERY one of my sellers have said thank you when it’s all said and done with many testimonials.
Heck I can confidently say I know more about the market as a wholesaler than probably 90% of the realtors in my markets. How??? Because I talk to 20-30 sellers per month and run mls based comps and submit offers to almost all the sellers I talk to. Why would I want to settle for 3% commission with the knowledge I have and the time and energy I spend helping the seller? There is nothing wrong with getting paid well for knowledge and your time.
The key thing I will say is to know what your doing and don’t lock up the property if your not confident you have a buyer for it at the contracted price. That just gets the sellers hopes up and they come crashing down when you back out. No one deserves to be treated like that. At a minimum pay a reasonable earnest money deposit fee if you do need to back out as that’s doing the right thing which I have done on the very few properties I was unable to close on.
Anyway just my thoughts.
216 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes7y
Ripping tens of thousands of dollars from a seller is "helping them"? LOL....that is typical unlicensed broker scabs propaganda.
- Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 229 posts · 229 votes7y
@John Thedford my assignment fees are never more than $7k. My sellers walked with over $20k on my last deal. My buyers sold for $74k profit. House still had $30k in equity that the new homeowner will grab immediately after recording the deed.
Again, you’re speaking on what you’ve seen and heard about. Not EVERYthing or EVERYone that’s doing it. I would never put a $30k fee on a deal just bcuz I can and I know plenty others that operate the same. You’re speaking on all negatives without acknowledging any positives being done.
To all reading this that are new, I would hope you’d take the advice of someone that can acknowledge both sides of the discussion rather than those that just beat the side they don’t believe in down so that what they’re saying looks like the only truth.
Again, do not group me in with what you've seen on HUDS etc because I can guarantee you have never seen a HUD that belongs to a transaction I've done. Don't speak on what I've done in my community because I'm also willing to guarantee that you've never been inside of it. Us removing problem neighbors, saving owners from being foreclosed on, improving property values by cleaning up eye sores, is definitely helping our community, whether it's adequate help in YOUR eyes or not.
God bless you all. I’m out.
- Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 294 votes7y
@Duncan Hayes The author is asking a question to full time wholesalers. If you are a full time wholesaler, then by definition your business model revolves around tying up a property with the intent to find another buyer. This is illegal in all 50 states since you never had any intention of actually purchasing any of these homes.
You can be a legitimate real estate investor who just happens to also wholesale some properties depending on the circumstances, but nobody can legally be just a full time wholesaler.
I don't think people here at BP have much of a problem with wholesaling when done properly, the problem is that gurus such as Ron Legrand that you mentioned, sell expensive classes to people and fill their head with nonsense like this is the best way to break into real estate. People exit these classes thinking they will just start wholesaling. As mentioned you can't legally start by wholesaling, because by definition then you are signing a purchase contract with no intention of actually purchasing the property yourself.
Worse yet, the overwhelming majority of people who wholesale, since this is how they plan to 'break into the business', know very little if anything about real estate. They tie up properties and often fail to deliver. The wholesaler simply walks away from a failed deal, where as the seller has wasted precious time and could be seriously harmed if they needed the proceeds from the sale to pay other debt obligations. A persons home is likely the most expensive thing they will ever own, so to have a rookie come in and screw things up can cause serious harm to the seller if they have a financial situation that requires the home sold quickly. This potential to do serious harm is the entire reason why people are required to be licensed in the first place.
Finally, let me analyze this deal of yours, so you made 7k, the person you assigned it to made 74k, and the final end buyer made 30k equity? By my math the original homeowner sold his house for 114k under fair market value. The fact that they still walked away with 20k is irrelevant to the fact that they could have had 134k, or much closer to that had they been represented by a true real estate professional.
I have nothing against people who wholesale, but I can't stand wholesalers. -And yes, there is a difference between the two.
- Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 229 posts · 229 votes7y
@Bob Daniels you don’t know me or what my full time biz model is or how we operate. Keep guessing though ;)
- Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes7y
Originally posted by @Logan Causey:
@James Wise
We aren’t selling real estate, we are assigning contracts.
That’s legally selling real estate in many jurisdictions, doesn’t matter what you think it is.
- Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Duncan Hayes agreed.. and the right way is to close on the house then resell it.. that's what I have done for 40 years
or get a license and make full disclosures.. you cant pull the we are helping people card with me.. I fund 150 plus deals a year that many times have wholesalers attached to them.. I personally see their version of helping their communities LOL and in many instances its just not defensible buying the hood rat for 10k and selling to to some beginner wanna be buy and hold or BRRRR investor for 40k and make 30k.. you think that is OK.. do you think the people in your community could have used another 25k for their home and the facilitator made 5k ?? your not going to preach to me about how you help your community.. maybe this is not U but after about 3,000 funding's for me were I see the huds I know what goes on and who does what to who..
I disagree about the double closing, even though I have done that it in the past.
I have wholesaled multiple deals, and my partner wholesales a bunch more.
This is my Method:
1st) always hold a RE license. You are selling RE. Follow all MLS rules about listing contracts; etc.
2nd) We are upfront with our sellers, just the right thing to do & saves you a lot of headaches. "We are an investment group, who flips and holds properties, however many times liquidity and other factors don't allow us to buy the house ourselves so we will flip the contract or resell the house to another investor. However, this doesn't affect you the seller because we are guaranteeing our closing date and price with a large EMD, we will never reneg".
So something like that is our disclosure to our sellers. Most of the time they have no issue with that. We offer a very quick close in cash usually.
Also I agree with you Jay, trying to sucker the newbies is very prevalent (& shortsighted). But honestly that’s what half these turnkey guys are doing too.
The truly successful wholesalers I know sell to larger investment groups & professionals. Even my group sells all our wholesale deals to about 4-5 people. 1 is a large hedge fund. They have too much money to put out to find their own deals only.
- Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes7y
Originally posted by @Duncan Hayes:
@Matt Hatton there is nothing illegal about wholesaling real estate. Sounds like someone has a bad taste in their mouth from a bad experience. But, to hear someone speak about ethics then openly admit to going behind another’s back to basically steal a deal is kinda ludicrous if you ask me.
Every contract in the USA is assignable unless otherwise stated in that contract. This applies to real estate contracts too. You are not brokering Real Estate, simply selling your role in a contract to purchase a piece of property.
And this is where you start to lose the people on this forum who are reputable, experienced, and do things correctly.
It’s not illegal to Wholesale, but it is illegal to Wholesale in most jurisdictions without a RE license This IS BROKERING RE. Just because you say it isn’t, doesn’t make it true. Most State guidelines REQUIRE a license.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Syed H.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Duncan Hayes agreed.. and the right way is to close on the house then resell it.. that's what I have done for 40 years
or get a license and make full disclosures.. you cant pull the we are helping people card with me.. I fund 150 plus deals a year that many times have wholesalers attached to them.. I personally see their version of helping their communities LOL and in many instances its just not defensible buying the hood rat for 10k and selling to to some beginner wanna be buy and hold or BRRRR investor for 40k and make 30k.. you think that is OK.. do you think the people in your community could have used another 25k for their home and the facilitator made 5k ?? your not going to preach to me about how you help your community.. maybe this is not U but after about 3,000 funding's for me were I see the huds I know what goes on and who does what to who..
I disagree about the double closing, even though I have done that it in the past.
I have wholesaled multiple deals, and my partner wholesales a bunch more.
This is my Method:
1st) always hold a RE license. You are selling RE. Follow all MLS rules about listing contracts; etc.
2nd) We are upfront with our sellers, just the right thing to do & saves you a lot of headaches. "We are an investment group, who flips and holds properties, however many times liquidity and other factors don't allow us to buy the house ourselves so we will flip the contract or resell the house to another investor. However, this doesn't affect you the seller because we are guaranteeing our closing date and price with a large EMD, we will never reneg".
So something like that is our disclosure to our sellers. Most of the time they have no issue with that. We offer a very quick close in cash usually.
Also I agree with you Jay, trying to sucker the newbies is very prevalent (& shortsighted). But honestly that’s what half these turnkey guys are doing too.
The truly successful wholesalers I know sell to larger investment groups & professionals. Even my group sells all our wholesale deals to about 4-5 people. 1 is a large hedge fund. They have too much money to put out to find their own deals only.
I funded about 220 deals for a wholesaler in Orlando called Altura.. they were a brokerage.. all of them licensed.
but my career spans the inner cities of all the major metros of the mid west and Chicago Philly Balt.. Jackson MS Memphis
Indy KC on and on and on.. so I get it for sure.. and I am not the wholesale police.. my asking my regulator was to find out how this state dealt with the issue and its pretty evident that the flyer I sent in from someone who did not own the house and was not licensed.. they opened an investigation and that person is now licensed I think they give you one pass depending on how you act and what you have done.
I have one of my team who came to me because here in Oregon he stuck a sign in the yard and the neighbor wanted the house he knew my guy did not own it.. and that neighbor filed a complaint. and that one was a Donny brook cost my guy over 10k in legal fees and so I fund all his stuff now.. I did this for a guy in Jackson MS.. same thing investor from LA got into a snit with him.. they realized he was putting homes on his website he did not own.. and boom this guy got a cease and desist and big fine.. and I created a funding mechanism for him to keep him legal .. so on and so forth.. we are all out to make money.. that's a given.. but it gets a little trite when you hear these folks claim they are doing some social good or something. If they want to do that they should donate to aheroshome.org were we are giving a first responder a beautiful home in Memphis all for free .. using donations from those on BP and others.. still waiting for my first wholesaler to donate LOL
- Member since 2018 · 50 posts · 56 votes7y
Not true - you absolutely do not need a license to sell real estate. That's just false information.
In MN for example, in order to "advertise" the property on MLS and other affiliated sites, you do need to have a license. However, if you are doing under ten deals per year and are not pretending to be an agent - wholesaling is perfectly legal.
As long as you do not mis-represent your role and go around openly advertising the property as an agent, you are fine. The whole sale deals I have been involved with have all been done by word of mouth and have been geared at helping out a distressed seller.
In fact, my real estate agent brought me a deal the other week and specifically asked me if I could go find a cash buyer for it. The property was distressed and he was afraid to tarnish his reputation by listing such an ugly property. Yet, he still wanted to help the sellers out by attempting to help them get rid of the property.
As a real estate agent, if you participate in wholesaling you may run into fiduciary responsibility issues, but you do not absolutely need a real estate license to sell real estate.
This sounds to me like you are a broker who is simply being overly negative on whole sellers. Honestly, I dislike using brokers because of the inspection laws, waiting periods, losing almost 10% of my sale to your fees, and dealing with the hassle of not being able to communicate with the buyer/seller directly. Selling to someone for cash is SO MUCH better than dealing with the hassle of involving real estate agents/brokers in ever deal. Sometimes agents are an asset and sometimes its a liability. It depends on the circumstance and the parties involved.
- Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
To your actual original post. In a way your question is what would I do differently if I was starting out again. For me it would be to keep a lot more of the really good deals I flipped. You will look back n wish you'd built more of a portfolio. I flipped hundreds of houses and now a house I bought 5 years ago for 30K is selling for 80K. And that's in Memphis which gets no growth. So have a specific plan to hold XX houses a year. You can always bring some of them back in as inventory in later years if you want to cash out.
Oh and I would ignore all the jealous realtors trying to scare you off. Just behave ethically and talk to your attorney and check what is legal in your state and do that. There are so many ways to buy houses you definitely don't need to be licensed. it is a real disadvantage to your wholesaling business.
- Realtor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2017 · 541 posts · 442 votes7y
I would get your license and secure funds to close the deal. Buying and then reselling a property without doing anything to it is perfectly legal everywhere, unless I'm missing something.
- Rental Property Investor · Richardson, TX · Member since 2019 · 120 posts · 82 votes7y
@Matt Hatton 1st wholesaling is legal and a good way to start but agree with most of the comments that you need to be upfront with your potential sellers. If they are distressed all they care about is getting rid of a house. If you explain that you are partnering with another investor by assigning it to them, you wont have an issue. We do both here...sometimes we close on properties ourselves to rehab and sometimes we assign to other investors. Just be transparent and upfront and you won’t have any issues.
To address your question about going back in time...focus 99% of your time and efforts on marketing. I would pick one marketing method and become the expert at it in your market. Once you master the first marketing method, stack another one on.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Lol, no couldn't be further from the truth. Nothing about the wholesale industry threatens my various businesses in anyway. Issue is we've got a lot of folks on here giving out bad information, based on things they have heard 3rd hand or are assuming or however else they are determining their thought process on the business. Myself I run a large company, I have held a sales license and a broker license, I have worked with state authorities several times to enforce license law against those acting in the capacity of a broker without having the license. Matt asked a great question and as someone who's got the correct answer based upon actual verifiable fact and government support instead of assumptions so I gave it to him and anyone else who is hoping to achieve some level of success in this industry.
- Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Yes david right on the money!
"Originally posted by @David Abbate :There is apparently a very vocal broker here that is threatened by the wholesale business and as a result,
your post has been derailed away from your original questions. You might have to repost your questions in a new discussion so we can get a better dialogue along their lines." - Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Duncan Hayes:
@John Thedford my assignment fees are never more than $7k. My sellers walked with over $20k on my last deal. My buyers sold for $74k profit. House still had $30k in equity that the new homeowner will grab immediately after recording the deed.
Again, you’re speaking on what you’ve seen and heard about. Not EVERYthing or EVERYone that’s doing it. I would never put a $30k fee on a deal just bcuz I can and I know plenty others that operate the same. You’re speaking on all negatives without acknowledging any positives being done.
To all reading this that are new, I would hope you’d take the advice of someone that can acknowledge both sides of the discussion rather than those that just beat the side they don’t believe in down so that what they’re saying looks like the only truth.
Again, do not group me in with what you've seen on HUDS etc because I can guarantee you have never seen a HUD that belongs to a transaction I've done. Don't speak on what I've done in my community because I'm also willing to guarantee that you've never been inside of it. Us removing problem neighbors, saving owners from being foreclosed on, improving property values by cleaning up eye sores, is definitely helping our community, whether it's adequate help in YOUR eyes or not.
God bless you all. I’m out.
Lol I hope you and others who are coming to these forums to learn understand the irony here when you yourself refer to the "profit? on your contract assignments as "fees". That is brokering real estate. One needs to hold a state license to broker real estate in the USA. Below is the definition directly from the Ohio Revised Code. More or less all of the 50 states have a very similar definition.
4735.01. Real estate broker definitions
As used in this chapter:
(A) "Real estate broker" includes any person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation, foreign or domestic, who for another, whether pursuant to a power of attorney or otherwise, and who for a fee, commission, or other valuable consideration, or with the intention, or in the expectation, or upon the promise of receiving or collecting a fee, commission, or other valuable consideration does any of the following: (1) Sells, exchanges, purchases, rents, or leases, or negotiates the sale, exchange, purchase, rental, or leasing of any real estate; (2) Offers, attempts, or agrees to negotiate the sale, exchange, purchase, rental, or leasing of any real estate; (3) Lists, or offers, attempts, or agrees to list, or auctions, or offers, attempts, or agrees to auction, any real estate; (4) Buys or offers to buy, sells or offers to sell, or otherwise deals in options on real estate; (5) Operates, manages, or rents, or offers or attempts to operate, manage, or rent, other than as custodian, caretaker, or janitor, any building or portions of buildings to the public as tenants; (6) Advertises or holds self out as engaged in the business of selling, exchanging, purchasing, renting, or leasing real estate; (7) Directs or assists in the procuring of prospects or the negotiation of any transaction, other than mortgage financing, which does or is calculated to result in the sale, exchange, leasing, or renting of any real estate; (8) Is engaged in the business of charging an advance fee or contracting for collection of a fee in connection with any contract whereby the broker undertakes primarily to promote the sale, exchange, purchase, rental, or leasing of real estate through its listing in a publication issued primarily for such purpose, or for referral of information concerning such real estate to brokers, or both, except that this division does not apply to a publisher of listings or compilations of sales of real estate by their owners; (9) Collects rental information for purposes of referring prospective tenants to rental units or locations of such units and charges the prospective tenants a fee. (B) "Real estate" includes leaseholds as well as any and every interest or estate in land situated in this state, whether corporeal or incorporeal, whether freehold or nonfreehold, and the improvements on the land, but does not include cemetery interment rights. (C) "Real estate salesperson" means any person associated with a licensed real estate broker to do or to deal in any acts or transactions set out or comprehended by the definition of a real estate broker, for compensation or otherwise. (D) "Institution of higher education" includes all of the following: (1) A state institution of higher education, as defined in section 3345.011 of the Revised Code; (2) A nonprofit institution issued a certificate of authorization under Chapter 1713. of the Revised Code; (3) A private institution exempt from regulation under Chapter 3332. of the Revised Code, as prescribed in section 3333.046 of the Revised Code. (4) An institution with a certificate of registration from the state board of career colleges and schools under Chapter 3332. of the Revised Code that is approved to offer degree programs in accordance with section 3332.05 of the Revised Code. (E) "Foreign real estate" means real estate not situated in this state and any interest in real estate not situated in this state. (F) "Foreign real estate dealer" includes any person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation, foreign or domestic, who for another, whether pursuant to a power of attorney or otherwise, and who for a fee, commission, or other valuable consideration, or with the intention, or in the expectation, or upon the promise of receiving or collecting a fee, commission, or other valuable consideration, does or deals in any act or transaction specified or comprehended in division (A) of this section with respect to foreign real estate. (G) "Foreign real estate salesperson" means any person associated with a licensed foreign real estate dealer to do or deal in any act or transaction specified or comprehended in division (A) of this section with respect to foreign real estate, for compensation or otherwise. (H) Any person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation, who, for another, in consideration of compensation, by fee, commission, salary, or otherwise, or with the intention, in the expectation, or upon the promise of receiving or collecting a fee, does, or offers, attempts, or agrees to engage in, any single act or transaction contained in the definition of a real estate broker, whether an act is an incidental part of a transaction, or the entire transaction, shall be constituted a real estate broker or real estate salesperson under this chapter. (I) (1) The terms "real estate broker," "real estate salesperson," "foreign real estate dealer," and "foreign real estate salesperson" do not include a person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation, or the regular employees thereof, who perform any of the acts or transactions specified or comprehended in division (A) of this section, whether or not for, or with the intention, in expectation, or upon the promise of receiving or collecting a fee, commission, or other valuable consideration: (a) With reference to real estate situated in this state owned by such person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation, or acquired on its own account in the regular course of, or as an incident to the management of the property and the investment in it; (b) As receiver or trustee in bankruptcy, as guardian, executor, administrator, trustee, assignee, commissioner, or any person doing the things mentioned in this section, under authority or appointment of, or incident to a proceeding in, any court, or as a bona fide public officer, or as executor, trustee, or other bona fide fiduciary under any trust agreement, deed of trust, will, or other instrument that has been executed in good faith creating a like bona fide fiduciary obligation; (c) As a public officer while performing the officer's official duties; (d) As an attorney at law in the performance of the attorney's duties; (e) As a person who engages in the brokering of the sale of business assets, not including the sale, lease, exchange, or assignment of any interest in real estate; (f) As a person who engages in the sale of manufactured homes as defined in division (C)(4) of section 3781.06 of the Revised Code, or of mobile homes as defined in division (O) of section 4501.01 of the Revised Code, provided the sale does not include the negotiation, sale, lease, exchange, or assignment of any interest in real estate; (g) As a person who engages in the sale of commercial real estate pursuant to the requirements of section 4735.022 of the Revised Code; (h) As an oil and gas land professional in the performance of the oil and gas land professional's duties, provided the oil and gas land professional is not engaged in the purchase or sale of a fee simple absolute interest in oil and gas or other real estate and the oil and gas land professional complies with division (A) of section 4735.023 of the Revised Code; (i) As an oil and gas land professional employed by the person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation for which the oil and gas land professional is performing the oil and gas land professional's duties. (2) A person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation exempt under division (I)(1)(a) of this section shall be limited by the legal interest in the real estate held by that person or entity to performing any of the acts or transactions specified in or comprehended by division (A) of this section. (J) "Disabled licensee" means a person licensed pursuant to this chapter who is under a severe disability which is of such a nature as to prevent the person from being able to attend any instruction lasting at least three hours in duration. (K) "Division of real estate" may be used interchangeably with, and for all purposes has the same meaning as, "division of real estate and professional licensing." (L) "Superintendent" or "superintendent of real estate" means the superintendent of the division of real estate and professional licensing of this state. Whenever the division or superintendent of real estate is referred to or designated in any statute, rule, contract, or other document, the reference or designation shall be deemed to refer to the division or superintendent of real estate and professional licensing, as the case may be. (M) "Inactive license" means the license status in which a salesperson's license is in the possession of the division, renewed as required under this chapter or rules adopted under this chapter, and not associated with a real estate broker. (N) "Broker's license on deposit" means the license status in which a broker's license is in the possession of the division of real estate and professional licensing and renewed as required under this chapter or rules adopted under this chapter. (O) "Suspended license" means the license status that prohibits a licensee from providing services that require a license under this chapter for a specified interval of time. (P) "Reactivate" means the process prescribed by the superintendent of real estate and professional licensing to remove a license from an inactive, suspended, or broker's license on deposit status to allow a licensee to provide services that require a license under this chapter. (Q) "Revoked" means the license status in which the license is void and not eligible for reactivation. (R) "Commercial real estate" means any parcel of real estate in this state other than real estate containing one to four residential units. "Commercial real estate" does not include single-family residential units such as condominiums, townhouses, manufactured homes, or homes in a subdivision when sold, leased, or otherwise conveyed on a unit-by-unit basis, even when those units are a part of a larger building or parcel of real estate containing more than four residential units. (S) "Out-of-state commercial broker" includes any person, partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation that is licensed to do business as a real estate broker in a jurisdiction other than Ohio. (T) "Out-of-state commercial salesperson" includes any person affiliated with an out-of-state commercial broker who is not licensed as a real estate salesperson in Ohio. (U) "Exclusive right to sell or lease listing agreement" means an agency agreement between a seller and broker that meets the requirements of section 4735.55 of the Revised Code and does both of the following: (1) Grants the broker the exclusive right to represent the seller in the sale or lease of the seller's property; (2) Provides the broker will be compensated if the broker, the seller, or any other person or entity produces a purchaser or tenant in accordance with the terms specified in the listing agreement or if the property is sold or leased during the term of the listing agreement to anyone other than to specifically exempted persons or entities. (V) "Exclusive agency agreement" means an agency agreement between a seller and broker that meets the requirements of section 4735.55 of the Revised Code and does both of the following: (1) Grants the broker the exclusive right to represent the seller in the sale or lease of the seller's property; (2) Provides the broker will be compensated if the broker or any other person or entity produces a purchaser or tenant in accordance with the terms specified in the listing agreement or if the property is sold or leased during the term of the listing agreement, unless the property is sold or leased solely through the efforts of the seller or to the specifically exempted persons or entities. (W) "Exclusive purchaser agency agreement" means an agency agreement between a purchaser and broker that meets the requirements of section 4735.55 of the Revised Code and does both of the following: (1) Grants the broker the exclusive right to represent the purchaser in the purchase or lease of property; (2) Provides the broker will be compensated in accordance with the terms specified in the exclusive agency agreement or if a property is purchased or leased by the purchaser during the term of the agency agreement unless the property is specifically exempted in the agency agreement. The agreement may authorize the broker to receive compensation from the seller or the seller's agent and may provide that the purchaser is not obligated to compensate the broker if the property is purchased or leased solely through the efforts of the purchaser.
(X) "Seller" means a party in a real estate transaction who is the potential transferor of property. "Seller" includes an owner of property who is seeking to sell the property and a landlord who is seeking to rent or lease property to another person. (Y) "Resigned" means the license status in which a license has been voluntarily and permanently surrendered to or is otherwise in the possession of the division of real estate and professional licensing, may not be renewed or reactivated in accordance with the requirements specified in this chapter or the rules adopted pursuant to it, and is not associated with a real estate broker. (Z) "Bona fide" means made in good faith or without purpose of circumventing license law. (AA) "Associate broker" means an individual licensed as a real estate broker under this chapter who does not function as the principal broker or a management level licensee. (BB) "Brokerage" means a corporation, partnership, limited partnership, association, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or sole proprietorship, foreign or domestic, that has been issued a broker's license. "Brokerage" includes the affiliated licensees who have been assigned management duties that include supervision of licensees whose duties may conflict with those of other affiliated licensees. (CC) "Credit-eligible course" means a credit or noncredit-bearing course that is both of the following: (1) The course is offered by an institution of higher education. (2) The course is eligible for academic credit that may be applied toward the requirements for a degree at the institution of higher education. (DD) "Distance education" means courses required by divisions (B)(6) and (G) of section 4735.07, divisions (F)(6) and (J) of section 4735.09, and division (A) of section 4735.141 of the Revised Code in which instruction is accomplished through use of interactive, electronic media and where the teacher and student are separated by distance or time, or both. (EE) "Licensee" means any individual licensed as a real estate broker or salesperson by the Ohio real estate commission pursuant to this chapter. (FF) "Management level licensee" means a licensee who is employed by or affiliated with a real estate broker and who has supervisory responsibility over other licensees employed by or affiliated with that real estate broker. (GG) "Oil and gas land professional" means a person regularly engaged in the preparation and negotiation of agreements for the purpose of exploring for, transporting, producing, or developing oil and gas mineral interests, including, but not limited to, oil and gas leases and pipeline easements. (HH) "Principal broker" means an individual licensed as a real estate broker under this chapter who oversees and directs the operations of the brokerage.
- Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2019 · 92 posts · 15 votes7y
Now do you gents feel the same way about double closing, as you do assignments? And to clarify on double closing, I mean using either transactional funds or personal funds. Still think this is wrong? Just looking for your input here.
- Property Manager · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2016 · 601 posts · 384 votes7y
The wholesalers are filling a niche in many cases that aren't worth the time of a licensed broker, that certainly doesn't make it legal if it's not.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
If I could fly back to the past, I would tell myself to do SEO sooner.
Thats really it.
Unlike a lot of people I did it the right way.
Instead of winging it and following the crowed, I did my research first.
I asked myself "what do I need to become a God".
Then I asked myself what does everyone here seems to be missing.
The answers are the same.
Highly motivated seller leads.
So I asked the next question.. how do I get them.
What is the BEST way to get them.
Well FB ads suck. PPC SUCKS
DMM SUCKS
The ONLY answer honestly, is SEO.
So before anything I decided to become a master at it. Well.. I became the master and now...
The funny thing is, I became so good at it, people starting to seek me out for help on this. More and more people. Now my SEO consulting is making me way more money than flipping houses.
Go figure!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Barry Pekin:
@James Wise, I understand how you feel about wholesalers, and that many other people have felt the same way. What I have found is that some wholesalers are better than others. Since wholesaling is an attractive entrance into real estate investing, it attracts a lot of people. Those who are successful are honest, hard-working, and have taken the time to really learn how to do the business. They also have an honest desire to help everyone involved - the seller and the buyer.
No, wholesaling isn't illegal. As with anything, there are right ways and wrong ways to do it, and that can vary from state to state. If I didn't know several wholesalers that were successfully and legally doing this, as well as several buyers that love working with wholesalers, I might have more concerns since I keep hearing this sentiment pop up from time to time.
As you said, some wholesalers will lie to the seller and tell them that they are going to buy their house without as much as a hint about the fact that they are going to assign the contract. Others will be very clear from the start that they are going to assign the contract. Personally, regardless of which side of the conversation I'm on, I prefer honesty. It works out better in the end.
Personally, I think if you go around the wholesaler direct to the seller, (1) the wholesaler doesn't know what they're doing because they should already have a contract with the seller, and (2) if the wholesaler is good at finding deals and you're only interested in screwing them over, they're not going to bring any new deals to you - only to your more honorable competition. Karma, baby.
Wholesalers really can be good, honest people who are really helping out, and getting paid in the process. But as with any profession, there are those who are good and those who are not so good.
As for your bullet points, you got those right. Good job!
All I will say is that my clients loved that I wholesale the houses. Legal or not. My lawyer says it is legal as does the state. Go figure - Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jonathan Newsome:
Now do you gents feel the same way about double closing, as you do assignments? And to clarify on double closing, I mean using either transactional funds or personal funds. Still think this is wrong? Just looking for your input here.
If you own the property you can sell it to whomever you want & it would never be considered brokering so you've no govt licensing requirements to worry about in a scenario where you bought low and sold high. The thing you'd run into issues on is if you are looking for a buyer before you own it, that'd technically be a violation as the marketing of real estate you do not own is an activity that requires a real estate license. Logic would dictate you'd have to be marketing prior to close if you were utilizing a double closing and transnational funding etc. To remain out of govt cross hairs if I were you I would buy and only market it once you've already taken title. If you had a deal that you'd be able to line buyers up fast enough to do a double close or something of that nature there would be no reason why waiting to take title before telling people about it would be a barrier for you. You'd probably be able to use same title co and close it in 3-7 more days after you came to terms with your buyer.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Barry Pekin:
@James Wise, I understand how you feel about wholesalers, and that many other people have felt the same way. What I have found is that some wholesalers are better than others. Since wholesaling is an attractive entrance into real estate investing, it attracts a lot of people. Those who are successful are honest, hard-working, and have taken the time to really learn how to do the business. They also have an honest desire to help everyone involved - the seller and the buyer.
No, wholesaling isn't illegal. As with anything, there are right ways and wrong ways to do it, and that can vary from state to state. If I didn't know several wholesalers that were successfully and legally doing this, as well as several buyers that love working with wholesalers, I might have more concerns since I keep hearing this sentiment pop up from time to time.
As you said, some wholesalers will lie to the seller and tell them that they are going to buy their house without as much as a hint about the fact that they are going to assign the contract. Others will be very clear from the start that they are going to assign the contract. Personally, regardless of which side of the conversation I'm on, I prefer honesty. It works out better in the end.
Personally, I think if you go around the wholesaler direct to the seller, (1) the wholesaler doesn't know what they're doing because they should already have a contract with the seller, and (2) if the wholesaler is good at finding deals and you're only interested in screwing them over, they're not going to bring any new deals to you - only to your more honorable competition. Karma, baby.
Wholesalers really can be good, honest people who are really helping out, and getting paid in the process. But as with any profession, there are those who are good and those who are not so good.
As for your bullet points, you got those right. Good job!
OMG why is there always a fight when wholesaling is mentioned.Always these select few bishing about it.
Dudes really. This is boring, annoying even.
Don;t like the Q, friggin don't answer. Do you really just sit there waiting someone mentions wholesaling for you all to show how much you know about how illegal it is?
No?
Because that si what you are doing.
OVER and OVER and OVER again. How often have you jumped on and attacked people who even say the word "wholesaling". For petes sake enough!!!
By select few do you mean those fellas on this thread who together have decades of experience in the industry and have transacted well over $1B in real estate sales? Funny how having the education, licensing, experience and wherewithal to see what the rules are and then transact business in a way that complies with them leads to so much success isn't it? But hey man as you said "bishing is so boring"
- Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2019 · 92 posts · 15 votes7y
@James Wise great answer, this is actually my train of thought. The thing is, I’ve built up a decent buyers list and know exactly what each is looking for in a property, down to the smallest of criteria. So for me, to do a double close and send or sell to one of my “preferred buyers” would be no issue, aka no marketing needed, as I know who on my list it would be a great fit for.
So in this instance, would you say it is okay? Or does it still fall under that grey area?
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jonathan Newsome:
@James Wise great answer, this is actually my train of thought. The thing is, I’ve built up a decent buyers list and know exactly what each is looking for in a property, down to the smallest of criteria. So for me, to do a double close and send or sell to one of my “preferred buyers” would be no issue, aka no marketing needed, as I know who on my list it would be a great fit for.
So in this instance, would you say it is okay? Or does it still fall under that grey area?
No dude that's brokering. You have buyers. You found a seller who owns a house and you want to sell the house to those buyers and make some money. That is the EXACT definition of brokering. Nothing wrong with brokering. It's made me millions. So if that's your thing why don't you just grab yourself a license and broker distressed real estate to your buyers?
Or you could always just buy it yourself, and then sell to your buyers while you are in the driver seat a bit more. With you having the leverage of owning it and not being under the gun to get a deal done in time for your seller you could probably etch out some more profit on each of your sales. This is what wholesaling really is. Buy low and sell high, no license needed. What folks teach newbies these days and what some of the fellas above are talking about is simply brokering as they have removed buying from the equation altogether. They just want to get paid for connecting buyer to seller, which is of course brokering.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Barry Pekin:
@James Wise, I understand how you feel about wholesalers, and that many other people have felt the same way. What I have found is that some wholesalers are better than others. Since wholesaling is an attractive entrance into real estate investing, it attracts a lot of people. Those who are successful are honest, hard-working, and have taken the time to really learn how to do the business. They also have an honest desire to help everyone involved - the seller and the buyer.
No, wholesaling isn't illegal. As with anything, there are right ways and wrong ways to do it, and that can vary from state to state. If I didn't know several wholesalers that were successfully and legally doing this, as well as several buyers that love working with wholesalers, I might have more concerns since I keep hearing this sentiment pop up from time to time.
As you said, some wholesalers will lie to the seller and tell them that they are going to buy their house without as much as a hint about the fact that they are going to assign the contract. Others will be very clear from the start that they are going to assign the contract. Personally, regardless of which side of the conversation I'm on, I prefer honesty. It works out better in the end.
Personally, I think if you go around the wholesaler direct to the seller, (1) the wholesaler doesn't know what they're doing because they should already have a contract with the seller, and (2) if the wholesaler is good at finding deals and you're only interested in screwing them over, they're not going to bring any new deals to you - only to your more honorable competition. Karma, baby.
Wholesalers really can be good, honest people who are really helping out, and getting paid in the process. But as with any profession, there are those who are good and those who are not so good.
As for your bullet points, you got those right. Good job!
OMG why is there always a fight when wholesaling is mentioned.Always these select few bishing about it.
Dudes really. This is boring, annoying even.
Don;t like the Q, friggin don't answer. Do you really just sit there waiting someone mentions wholesaling for you all to show how much you know about how illegal it is?
No?
Because that si what you are doing.
OVER and OVER and OVER again. How often have you jumped on and attacked people who even say the word "wholesaling". For petes sake enough!!!
By select few do you mean those fellas on this thread who together have decades of experience in the industry and have transacted well over $1B in real estate sales? Funny how having the education, licensing, experience and wherewithal to see what the rules are and then transact business in a way that complies with them leads to so much success isn't it? But hey man as you said "bishing is so boring"
And now you are attacking me.. because I am tired of that childish crap. sigh.. go at it friend. Let me see if electrons bombared at my screen thereby forming letters on my screen hurt me in any way...
Well what do you know. It just doesnt phase me at all. Yaaay!
Who are you kidding feller. The guy simply asked "what would you tell yoursefl if you had a second go" that's it. Your $1B in sales and your amazing awesomeness and education has no place for this specific question. Are you really going to sit there and tell me your rant was well placed? Come now.
But if it makes you feel better... let it all out! There there. Feel better now?
phhhstBTW...
You telling anyone that because you have done $1B in sales is by no means a result, motive, consequence or indication you are right or correct.
:DBTW2
Anyone that needs yell bark and force their point across to prove and try hard to make sure they are right, by trowing up all sorts of unrelated things to drive their point... often really is not right.. and very insecure.
Just an FYI ;)
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