Hiring Interns for your REI Business
Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes
Hiring Interns for your REI Business
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Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
14yKen calm down. Yes, internships are bing cracked down on depending on how they are being used. I think the term intern here is more like a student or client fo a self employed person.
Universities and colleges have intern programs and I have used them, they work for a grade. I also kept them happy financially, take them out for dinner and lunch, pay for gas when we stopped etc. I was not making slaves out of them.
But some do and it's really the large corporate types that have invented slave labor for interns to work in order to get hired later on, that's where the abuse is.
28 Replies
- Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
How do you have time to do that? I have two summer interns working in my insurance agency and it takes a lot of time, energy and focus away from my core business. They do some things really well (SEO, Social Media, email blasts, mailers, etc) but it takes a lot to keep them busy with tasks that teach them something. I could not imagine dealing with 40 interns in 6 months. What exactly do you have them doing?
- Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
Joe Bertolino the reason I have time for all those interns is because I have most of my internship program systematized. All the training is systematized so I literally hand them a document and they train themselves. Also, most of the tasks that I have them doing is systematized into documents that I provide them with.
My only basic function is to help them out when they run into roadblocks or get stuck on a certain task. Then, from guiding them through those roadblocks, I try to automate the process even more.
What things do you have your interns doing and how do you go about teaching them?
- Hatfield, PA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 629 votes14y
What you are doing is illegal, and you probably do not even know why. And trying to turn this into a business is dragging other people into this (yes, I read your website - some juicy bits below).
Few people make me particularly mad, but I am considering turning you over to the US Dept of Labor... I saved your website, in case you are tempted to take it down.
This is 2012. They are cracking down on what you are doing.
---
Let's see what benefits you are "selling" :"Discover The Insider’s Secret To Hire An Unlimited Number Of Interns For Your Real Estate Investing Business.. ALL WITHOUT PAYING THEM A DIME!
Are you struggling with all the demands of your REI business?
Are you working non-stop and not getting very far?
Do you hate putting out bandit signs?
Are you sick of dealing with unmotivated sellers?
Did you know you can hire UNPAID INTERNS to do everything for you?"-------
Let's see what the DOL 6 requirements are for unpaid interns:The U.S. Department of Labor’s Wage and Hour Division (WHD) has developed the six factors below to evaluate whether a worker is a trainee or an employee for purposes of the FLSA:
1. The training, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to what would be given in a vocational school or academic educational instruction;
2. The training is for the benefit of the trainees;
3. The trainees do not displace regular employees, but work under their close
observation;
4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the trainees, and on occasion the employer’s operations may actually be impeded;
5. The trainees are not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the training period; and
6. The employer and the trainees understand that the trainees are not entitled to wages for the time spent in training. - Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
I'm sorry you feel that way Ken Latchers. What exactly do you think is illegal about what I'm doing? I'm curious.
I can kind of see where you're coming from in that you think I am "exploiting" workers. However, unpaid internships are not illegal. I've done 2 of them myself and they were both great experiences.
I'm offering my time and services (for free) to others that want to start their own business. Most other people that do this CHARGE thousands of dollars for the same exact thing.
What you posted from my website is a simple sales pitch. Just to make it clear, I'm not hiring people, letting them do all my work, and then not paying them anything.
I'm teaching them how to flip houses on their own then splitting profits with them when they complete deals.
Please tell me how you think this is illegal.
- Hatfield, PA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 629 votes14y
Originally posted by Kevin Tunney:
What exactly do you think is illegal about what I'm doing? I'm curious.You responded before I finished editing. The reasons are given above. You cannot talk or defend or argue through this. This is s serious legal matter.
No one should even considering following this person's thoughts or programs. It is obvious he did not seriously research about the legalities of it.
- Hatfield, PA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 629 votes14y
BP Moderators:
Do NOT delete this thread, as it serves as evidence. I have basically warned thread starter he must cease and desist this illegal activity, and that includes taking down his website from the internet. If he continues promoting this here or elsewhere, I plan to report him to the DOL.
- Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
Originally posted by Ken Latchers:
-------
Let's see what the DOL 6 requirements are for unpaid interns:The U.S. Department of Labor’s Wage and Hour Division (WHD) has developed the six factors below to evaluate whether a worker is a trainee or an employee for purposes of the FLSA:
1. The training, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to what would be given in a vocational school or academic educational instruction;
2. The training is for the benefit of the trainees;
3. The trainees do not displace regular employees, but work under their close
observation;
4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the trainees, and on occasion the employer’s operations may actually be impeded;
5. The trainees are not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the training period; and
6. The employer and the trainees understand that the trainees are not entitled to wages for the time spent in training.Here are my responses to those requirements:
1. The training is all developed by me but is similar to what would be given in a school.
2. The benefits to the trainees if obvious: I'm teaching them how to wholesale properties and make money.
3. Trainees do not displace regular employees and they are under close observation.
4. No immediate advantage to me, whatsoever. It actually impedes my business quite a bit since I'm taking valuable time out of my day to train these interns.
5. Trainees are not necessarily entitled to a job at the end of the training period. I make the decision whether then are or aren't.
6. I make it very clear that the trainees will not be getting a salary or an hourly wage. Compensation is commission-only.Please let me know if you have other questions about what I do or if I can clarify anything further. I'm not trying to run some illegal scheme here. Just genuinely offering my help to others.
- Realtor · Houston, TX · Member since 2011 · 916 posts · 296 votes14y
What is the difference between an internship ands a mentorship? Both have you doing work for free, but learning in the process.
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes14y
Ken calm down. Yes, internships are bing cracked down on depending on how they are being used. I think the term intern here is more like a student or client fo a self employed person.
Universities and colleges have intern programs and I have used them, they work for a grade. I also kept them happy financially, take them out for dinner and lunch, pay for gas when we stopped etc. I was not making slaves out of them.
But some do and it's really the large corporate types that have invented slave labor for interns to work in order to get hired later on, that's where the abuse is.
- Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
Shanequa J. there isn't much of a difference between internships and mentorships. Just different names basically. The term internship is more likely to be used in a school related affiliation where the term mentorship is more likely to be used in a business related affiliation.
Here is a Wiki page I found that details the minor differences between the 2 terms: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Designing_Professional_Development/Internship#Internships_and_their_Relation_to_Mentorships
And thanks Bill Gulley. I'm not sure why Ken Latchers was so "set off" by my posts here. But I want everyone to know that I'm not "exploiting" workers like Ken may have interpreted it.
I'm a big believer in the Law Of Attraction (do good things and good things will come your way.) I started my internship program in order to give back to the community. I want to inspire others to become real estate entrepreneurs just like others have inspired me to become one.
Does anyone else want to chime in with their input on this topic (preferably some positive input or at least some constructive criticism?)
- Hatfield, PA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 629 votes14y
Shellacking the subject does not make it legal. The thing that "set me off" was your website:
"Hire An Unlimited Number Of Interns For Your Real Estate Investing Business.. ALL WITHOUT PAYING THEM A DIME!
Are you struggling with all the demands of your REI business?
Are you working non-stop and not getting very far?
Do you hate putting out bandit signs?
Are you sick of dealing with unmotivated sellers?
Did you know you can hire UNPAID INTERNS to do everything for you?
How much more work could you get done?
How much time and stress would this save you?"This is so much a flagrant violation of the law, it is astonishing. And you are trying to monetize it by trying to get others to also violate the law. Your attempt to match yourself to the 6 requirements makes it obvious you do not "get it". It obviously had nothing to do with your real intent.
I am going to give a couple of more days. If your website is not taken down, I will definitely be forwarding it to the DOL. I made copies of the site, in case you try to paper it over.
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes14y
Kevin, it does kinda sound like you have a %#%(&% thing going here, saying it's helping the community'.....really...
Kinda sounds like you put birddogs out there on commission.
Which only leads me to ask, what real qualifications do you have in educational adminsistration or teaching and in real estate? I ask because if that's you in the avatar, you appear to be rather young and not an old crusty professor type. Cause it sounds like a plug for another guru thing trying to get off the ground.
And at the end I guess you only select the real producers and chaulk up the others as slow learners.
Most real estate brokers will take an agent if they have not been in trouble before just for the opportunity for the to sell a house to someone they know or their family. You get 200 such agents and they all sell one house. The broker has 200 deals and the agents quit the business after one deal. That's not really helping anyone.
- 14yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
We have hired a couple of interns and plan on expanding that next summer to high school aged kids looking to develop entrepreneurial skills. BUT, we go thru the local university when hiring interns so they get credit in class and we are working with other non-profits to develop the high school program.
I'm not at all comfortable with hiring interns to free up my time. That is important to some people and it gets thrown around all the time in conjunction with offers to "sell" a lifestyle. IMO, interns should be hired for their benefit and as a way for you to determine if they would be a good future fit for your company. 10-15 interns at one time does not sound like anything close to a reputable way to operate - again just my opinion.
- Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
Ken please let me know what else I can clarify for you. I'm meeting the DOL requirements but you're obviously not convinced that I am. Give me something specific that I can clarify for you before you make such erroneous accusations.
And I'm not "monetizing" anything. Everything about my site is free and I've never once tried to sell my subscribers anything.
Bill Gulley, yes I truly am trying to help the community out. You can judge me however you want in the fact that I look young (I get it all the time.) As far as professional qualifications go, I only have a CPA. I don't have any professional teaching or real estate credentials. Only the countless hours of research and actions I've been partaking in day in and day out for the past few years. In my opinion, I'm extremely knowledgable in the field of wholesaling and qualified to pass my knowledge on to others.
Chris Clothier, I also find my interns through the universities and offer them credit through the university if the intern wants it and if the school agrees to it. Once again, I am hiring these interns for their own benefit. Even if they don't work out in the end, they still get a great learning experience in the fields of real estate and entrepreneurship.
I try my best to give people a chance to succeed in this business, however, I've learned that you can't force others to succeed. The best you can do is to inspire them to achieve it on their own. That's all I really want.
It's fine if some people don't agree with my ideas, I just hope that some people can see the value I'm creating here.
- Realtor · Houston, TX · Member since 2011 · 916 posts · 296 votes14y
I think being an intern is a good idea, especially in a field like real estate where you need to make connections with other investors. Sometimes it's not what you know, but who you know. I would gladly sign up for an internship if the company guided me through the process, partnered with me if I found good deals, introduced me to individuals/investor friendly banks who had money to lend, or sent potential investments my way. To me, that's a no brainer.
Kevin Tunney Are you offering any of the above benefits to interns besides the teachings? Are you really helping the community? Maybe because I doubt you are talking about helping the community on such a grandiose scale as others think. I know you aren't rescuing the poor people from the blight of Chicago but rather are helping put extra cash in their pockets. Your'e also doing this to lighten your load and for free marketing. However, it's a win-win for everyone.
- Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 178 posts · 62 votes14y
I'm not sure about hiring 10-15 interns. I can barely manage a project manager, an office manager and a single intern!!! I wish I had your delegation skills!
Anyways I have found interns useful. Currently, I am working with a local university that requires students to have an internship to graduate. The student is given college credit. I have a lot of paper work to do, including an assessment of the student, plus the student has homework about their experience so I often help them by answering questions about the real estate business. My current intern is former Army and served in Iraq, and is a graduating finance major. He's a bit older so he has the maturity level that some other interns don't. I get different interns every quarter and they usually work 15 hours a week.
For my current intern, what I have him doing is I have shared with him my investment goals and financial models, and he is running leads in our model to see if it fits the goals of our company. If its a decent investment I showed him how to do preliminary due diligence and develop a proposal for the investment committee.
I don't feel like I am using interns as free labor, though I do admit that their labor is very valuable. There is a cost to me as a job trainer, and occasional hand holder, and depending on the individual it is hit or miss, but I have found that students are eager to learn and engage the material, and overall have been a good fit for our small firm.
- Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
Originally posted by Shanequa J.:
I think being an intern is a good idea, especially in a field like real estate where you need to make connections with other investors. Sometimes it's not what you know, but who you know. I would gladly sign up for an internship if the company guided me through the process, partnered with me if I found good deals, introduced me to individuals/investor friendly banks who had money to lend, or sent potential investments my way. To me, that's a no brainer.Kevin Tunney Are you offering any of the above benefits to interns besides the teachings? Are you really helping the community? Maybe because I doubt you are talking about helping the community on such a grandiose scale as others think. I know you aren't rescuing the poor people from the blight of Chicago but rather are helping put extra cash in their pockets. Your'e also doing this to lighten your load and for free marketing. However, it's a win-win for everyone.
Shanequa J. I'm offering all the benefits you mentioned above plus more. I guide my interns through the process of getting started. They also get to connect with my network of investors and I provide the means of bridging the gap between them and like-minded investors. They also get to use my realtor and title company if they are in the same market as me. These are only some of the ways I benefit my interns.
Vic L. I've had very similar experiences. Intern are usually hit or miss and you will know very quickly whether the intern is motivated to do the internship or not. I give them every opportunity to succeed, but in the end, they make the ultimate decision whether they succeed or not.
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes14y
I was starting to worry, a little, but if you are a CPA then you have formal training in basic legal issues and advanced in accounting.....so, and even if you are so young (LOL) you realize that you have a professional reputation to safeguard and your RE business can certainly bleed over to your other profession.
If you have a good source of buyers, rehabbers and landlords, wholesaling is pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel, not too hard.
OTH, in picking up junkers, there can be some liabilities lurking that are unforseen....that's why I stress a good basic understanding of RE, at least on par with a new RE agent, more is better.And I enjoyed my interns as well, a couple stay in touch and one is in banking in KC the other works in a family equipment leasing business and they both are picking up RE, so I guess something rubbed off...
Good luck!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2008 · 403 posts · 109 votes14y
Admittedly, I have not read all of the replies here. Actually, I should admit that I haven't read [i]any of the replies, including the original post. So, what I'm about to say may have already been stated. However, a regular contributor on this forum, who goes by the name dukefan... has a free e-course on hiring and using interns for your REI biz. His site is www.interncreations.com.
Just thought I'd throw this out there. His course could answer a lot of your questions. And if not, he may be able to, personally.
- Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
Bill Gulley thanks. I understand that the young people in this business sometimes don't get the respect they deserve, even if they have an established business they built themselves. So I appreciate the respect that you do give me.
Are you actively working with interns now or are you just talking about the ones you worked with in the past?
Andrew Massaro you definitely didn't read the posts (but at least you were honest..haha.) Or maybe you just didn't make the connection between dukefan.. and me (we're the same person.)
Either way, thanks for the support and for all those useful tips you've been giving me recently. Much appreciated!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2008 · 403 posts · 109 votes14y
LOL! Sorry, Kevin. I guess you're dukefan over on reiclub...
Hey, at least The Maestro is lookin' out for ya, bro.
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes14y
Kevin, I have used interns in the past, not anymore.....
Having been on BP for awhile I have realized how many new people are trying to get into RE and I have also seen many, rather inexperienced people, try to take advantage of the mentoring, coaching angles and put together programs about various areas of RE. Someone who has a good spiel, marketing hipe are just dangerous IMO. I can also respect them as they try to build a business it's how they go about it that usually bothers me.
Many of the guru wannbes have nothing to lose in trying to put something together they can profit from, IMO, it's too bad it's not regulated as schools are for real estate agents.
You have a professional standing and you are at risk in losing that if you get tied up in some deals that blow up and I know you are aware of that. That alone puts you in a different position, way above others IMO. I'm not sure of what you do and can't endorse your program but so long as others don't get the short end of the stick and they are treated fairly, more power to ya! I can't judge that. Good luck!
- Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes14y
Thanks Andrew..always lookin out!
And thanks again Bill. I appreciate the advice and I will definitely take that into consideration when building my internship program.
I'm just trying to "pay it forward" like so many others have done for me!
- Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 189 posts · 32 votes13y
I ddnt see what ken larchers was referring to. U musta alrdy complied w his warnings! Haha.. darn..
- Commercial Landlord · Oshkosh, WI · Member since 2013 · 299 posts · 88 votes13y
I never even got to see the web site its already gone?. I click the link and nothing. I was hoping to learn how to get to workers for free. Lmfao.
Just kidding, but many years ago I had thought about having an intern but the thought of having to chase people around that arent skilled and dont know how to do it the way I want it done just wasnt worth the trouble.
I have trained a few property managers but I find it easier to train them when they have been to school for the job already. The people I hire are too specialized to hand the job off to an intern. How do you get them to do anything productive besides grunt work in a rehab like painting? I guess they could do the simple tasks for a manager like post a doors or paint a wall or clean an apt or maybe even make copies.
Im sure I would be violating several labor laws but who knows. Maybe 20 years ago when I was single I could have dated a few of them too like Slick Willy.
Ok here goes this will be my add : Learn to make Millions in Real Estate, Intern needed while I chill on my Caribbean island. Of course I could hire them right from the jail to do my rehabs and pay less for labor too! Hey I wonder if I could get a work visa and have them shipped in from Haiti? Ok its outta hand I apologize, but then again I had to do this just for the exercise of mentioning the various extremes in trying to get free labor or cut costs. At some point you have to decide where ethics enters into your business and what your reputation is worth? So some making a fast buck trumps all other. I just hope people see value in creating decent jobs and real wages that can support families.
I think the idea that you can give back enough money to someone that they can afford to put there kids in college is important or your employees that can afford to buy a home and drive a nice car.
There is enough money in real estate to do this if your doing the right things.
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