any tips on how to save money on mailers?
Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes
Just starting out in wholesaling and have narrowed down a list of potential sellers I want to contact in my area. I am about to send out a couple thousand letters but I haven't bought stamps in years, what do they go for these days .43 ?
Is there any cheaper ways to do this or buying a lot of books of stamps pretty much my only option? any bulk rates or anything like that?
Jerry
your comment was a huge insult. I certainly don't offer a push button approach. If I cared about my botton line alone I wouldn't offer all of the free services we do without regard if you buy something from us.
You're correct with your opinion that 1000 letters is waste of time if you're decisions are solely based upon a signed purchase agreement.
The biggest issue with marketing isn't the media or message its the fulfillment system. Most don't yet understand how to value and close.
With that said I have plenty of customers who have success on minimal marketing however that's more like a lottery then on purpose.
First class letter stamps are 45 cents now. Stamps for postcards up to 4.25" x 6" cost 32 cents each. If you have the mailing list and want to do bulk, you need to get a permit which will cost hundreds of dollars to set up and your bulk mail needs to be presorted and compliant to postal formats to qualify for the bulk rate. If you are doing a few thousand at a time it may make sense. However, if you're doing a few hundred at a time it may not be worth the hassle and expenses. If you do enough volume you may look into a mail shop to handle it all for you.
Thanks for the info. I don't think I am going to be sending out enough on a regular basis to setup the bulk account and get a permit. I will check around to see how much local mail shops will charge to do it all for me. Last time I bought stamps they were .41 cents, doesn't seem like it was that long ago.
I guess I'm looking at about .50 - .55 a lead to mail for the stamp, envelope and paper/ink.
So if I send out 1,000 letters and it cost me $500+ if I don't get a single deal out of it, then it's probably not something I should continue doing.
You can buy first class stamps from Costco cheaper then at the post office.. I think youll save a stamp every 100 stamps you buy.
we sell PCs for .36 cents including the first class stamp and yellow letters as low as .99 cents including the first class stamp so you may consider that. However for 500 theyre 1.34.
However if youre a BiggerPockets "Pro" member you get a 10% discount or 1.21
Now if you do them yourself youll be somewhere around the following
Envelope .08
Paper .03
Ink .11
Stamp .45
Label .01
Total .68 cents
Once you get fast at it youll be able to do about 70 an hour.. In the beginning youll be somewhere around 40 an hour.
If you do them yourself the key is doing the same step for say 200 then the next step and so on. If you do them one at a time they will take forever.
Costco saves you about 50 cents on the roll of 100. Hardly a bargain considering the long wait in line. :D
@Will, how often do you plan on mailing to these thousands of people? Since a typical homeowner may be bombarded with mail at the first sign of distress, you may consider doing multiple mailings to the same address - at least 3-7 times over the course of several months, to keep your name in front of the seller. If that's the case, instead of mailing out a couple of thousand one-off mailers, you may want to select a promising area and mail multiple times to a few hundred sellers. That may be more manageable in terms of your budget and time.
With all the mail getting lost in delivery now - perhaps it would be a better idea to bypass them altogether.
How would you suggest I contact people who I only have a physical address for ?
Since when is a lot of mail getting "lost in delivery?"
Can you post a source for this information?
Every other month we have mail not making it to us. After paying a few late fees & penalties for bills that did not arrive - I have put all I can on e-bills so will not be lost by the USPS. This has been ongoing since 2009 with no remedy in sight from the USPS.
On the internet there are sites that you can put in a name & address to do a reverse telephone number search to contact people by phone instead of mail.
Interesting...I wonder if it's a location thing...
My wife and I were talking about this the other day (when the USPS announced a $5B loss) and I pointed out that in 20+ years of sending/receiving mail, I can only think of one time (that I know of) where something didn't make it or ultimately get returned.
But again, there could be lots of factors that have generated different experiences between us...
On the internet there are sites that you can put in a name & address to do a reverse telephone number search to contact people by phone instead of mail.
Do you cold call people? (or anyone else here - I'd curious to hear your results doing this). I'm not talking someone who has their phone number on a FSBO sign but someone who's name you got from a probate or foreclosure list? Besides the do not call lists, how does that go over when you call vs mail people for first contact. Hi Sir, sorry for your loss, so I see you inherited a house, would you be interested in selling it?
I know from personal experience I can't stand when someone calls me trying to sell me something because 9 out of 10 times they catching me at a bad time. But if they send me an email or letter I can open it when it is convenient for me. This is also assuming their number wouldn't be private or if they used a cell number and didn't have a home number tied to their physical address.
Personally I use a sign on the property and pass out the info to several key people to use word of mouth advertising.
I am not happy with the delivery service of the USPS so have chipped in my 2 cents worth towards the possibility of keeping them out of the transaction. Any time you have a stumbling block in the middle whether a real estate agent, loan officer, postal service or whatever, you need to look at ways of bypassing this major problem area.
I am not happy with the delivery service of the USPS so have chipped in my 2 cents worth towards the possibility of keeping them out of the transaction. Any time you have a stumbling block in the middle whether a real estate agent, loan officer, postal service or whatever, you need to look at ways of bypassing this major problem area.
Ok thanks for the feedback, was wondering if you did call people if you had any tips. I've never had problems with the mail being delivered in my area so I guess I will stick with that.
So if I send out 1,000 letters and it cost me $500+ if I don't get a single deal out of it, then it's probably not something I should continue doing.
Prepare for some disappointment my friend. One mailing does not a campaign make. Not withstanding that this is apparently something new you're "trying".
If you send out one round and stop, with no split testing no experience to draw from and then apparently not a lot of experience on the phone handling incoming calls...the odds of you getting a deal based on volume alone are not high. And honestly, 1000 letters one time is a pittance if direct mail is going to be your deal source.
Better as was mentioned earlier to use a smaller list and mail more frequently.
Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but direct mail marketing is part art and part science. You simply can't take a push button approach. If you want to do that, hire some one like Michael Quarles or one of us others to do it for you.
Prepare for some disappointment my friend. One mailing does not a campaign make. Not withstanding that this is apparently something new you're "trying".
Agreed. Sadly, despite what the gurus and late night infomercials might tell you, you aren't likely to make money in real estate without some money -- or lots of time and patience -- to begin with.
I'm new to direct marketing, and there are hundreds of different things I want and need to try before I determine what my response rate and conversion rate likely are.
For example, different sized envelopes/paper, color vs b/w, handwritten vs typed vs combination, biz card or no biz card, URL or just phone number, 100 different varieties of text/length of text/marketing angle, different color envelopes/paper, return address label on the front of the envelope or back, etc.
I'll probably send 100,000 pieces before I know what works pretty well versus what doesn't work very well. And I still won't know half as much as the guys here who have probably sent many more pieces and are smarter than I am.
All-in-all, to be successful in real estate, you need time, money or both. If you can only afford to send 500 letters per month, that's fine, but expect that it will take many, many, many, many months to start to get a handle on what works and what doesn't.
While I'm sure there are guys out there who have built a real estate empire with no experience and no money, they are the VERY rare exception. If you're starting with no money, I would suggest finding someone experienced who will teach you what they know in return for your working for free (or doing whatever you can to benefit them).
Jerry
your comment was a huge insult. I certainly don't offer a push button approach. If I cared about my botton line alone I wouldn't offer all of the free services we do without regard if you buy something from us.
You're correct with your opinion that 1000 letters is waste of time if you're decisions are solely based upon a signed purchase agreement.
The biggest issue with marketing isn't the media or message its the fulfillment system. Most don't yet understand how to value and close.
With that said I have plenty of customers who have success on minimal marketing however that's more like a lottery then on purpose.
That's what too many people don't realize (and I forgot to mention in my post)...
Michael did my yellow letter mailing for my first campaign. 13% of the people who got the letter picked up the phone to call the number. Yet, I didn't get a single deal out of it!
That's not Michael's fault...the marketing did it's job. I couldn't have asked for a better response rate.
But, because none of those targeted in the small mailing (just 1000 letters) happened to be overly motivated, or because I wasn't good enough to convince them to sell, I didn't get any deals from it.
As I said above, we're constantly making changes -- that includes our lists, our marketing and our "fulfillment" of the calls. Without optimizing all three, it's a tough business...and without many thousands of mailings, you can't optimize.
Sigh.....
Good grief Michael , I certainly didn't mean to insult you. I never said you take a push button approach. What I said is if they want to take a push button approach they can hire the work out.
You offer yellow letter mail service, yes? As do I for a select few. So if someone calls you, you do it for them. That's all I meant by push button...they push the button, you do the work.
And even at that, there's no guarantee the deal will close as you, J Scott and I each point out.
And BTW, very cool you volunteering to help someone kick start their career, (http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/76125-free-yellow-letters-and-postcards#) that's very generous. Hope it has a happier ending than the marketing diary did.
@Jerry
Okay.... I am very passionate about what I do. Thanks for pointing out that I took the wrong meaning from what you typed.
So if I send out 1,000 letters and it cost me $500+ if I don't get a single deal out of it, then it's probably not something I should continue doing.
Prepare for some disappointment my friend. One mailing does not a campaign make. Not withstanding that this is apparently something new you're "trying".
If you send out one round and stop, with no split testing no experience to draw from and then apparently not a lot of experience on the phone handling incoming calls...the odds of you getting a deal based on volume alone are not high. And honestly, 1000 letters one time is a pittance if direct mail is going to be your deal source.
Better as was mentioned earlier to use a smaller list and mail more frequently.
Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but direct mail marketing is part art and part science. You simply can't take a push button approach. If you want to do that, hire some one like Michael Quarles or one of us others to do it for you.
Thanks for the feedback. I can afford to send a lot more than $500 a month, I was trying to get a gauge of what to expect from doing 1 mailing of 1000 letters. (I also always try to do things as low cost as possible.) I do agree, a lot will depend on my experience and what I put in the letter, how I answer the phone etc... and I am going to try to learn as much as I can to do it right the first time, but like anything else, experience is gained through practice.
Prepare for some disappointment my friend. One mailing does not a campaign make. Not withstanding that this is apparently something new you're "trying".
Agreed. Sadly, despite what the gurus and late night infomercials might tell you, you aren't likely to make money in real estate without some money -- or lots of time and patience -- to begin with.
I'm new to direct marketing, and there are hundreds of different things I want and need to try before I determine what my response rate and conversion rate likely are.
For example, different sized envelopes/paper, color vs b/w, handwritten vs typed vs combination, biz card or no biz card, URL or just phone number, 100 different varieties of text/length of text/marketing angle, different color envelopes/paper, return address label on the front of the envelope or back, etc.
I'll probably send 100,000 pieces before I know what works pretty well versus what doesn't work very well. And I still won't know half as much as the guys here who have probably sent many more pieces and are smarter than I am.
All-in-all, to be successful in real estate, you need time, money or both. If you can only afford to send 500 letters per month, that's fine, but expect that it will take many, many, many, many months to start to get a handle on what works and what doesn't.
While I'm sure there are guys out there who have built a real estate empire with no experience and no money, they are the VERY rare exception. If you're starting with no money, I would suggest finding someone experienced who will teach you what they know in return for your working for free (or doing whatever you can to benefit them).
Sorry if I gave the impression I had no money to spend. I do have time and money, I just prefer to not over pay for things. The only reason I said I was mailing 1,000 people is because that is how many names I have collected so far to start with.
I want to keep my costs as low as possible not because I am broke, but because I want to turn a profit. If my expenses are higher than what I make on a deal then obviously I can't profit from that method. Mailing is just one of the advertising avenues I will be using. I know my experience level and expertise will play a huge factor as well, so feed back I get from here like "mail smaller list, several times" is good advice I will use.
The reason I started this thread was to find out if the cheapest way for me to send was to buy several rolls of stamps or if there was something else I could to save some bucks (and increase my profit.)
I get 500 envelopes at Wal Mart for ten bucks. Bought a pack of ink pens, and computer paper for a few bucks as well. And I bought a couple rolls of stamps for $90
So for about $150 (with gas to and from store and post office) I can send about 200 letters out. I'm only sending 35-40 letters which are handwritten addresses per week. I get 2 or 3 calls usually during the week, sometimes a couple more.
Been doing it for about two months now. My first contract from this campaign is supposed to come back in the AM. I have 3 other sellers to follow up with as well. They say the real money is in the follow up!
That's what too many people don't realize (and I forgot to mention in my post)...
Michael did my yellow letter mailing for my first campaign. 13% of the people who got the letter picked up the phone to call the number. Yet, I didn't get a single deal out of it!
That's not Michael's fault...the marketing did it's job. I couldn't have asked for a better response rate.
But, because none of those targeted in the small mailing (just 1000 letters) happened to be overly motivated, or because I wasn't good enough to convince them to sell, I didn't get any deals from it.
As I said above, we're constantly making changes -- that includes our lists, our marketing and our "fulfillment" of the calls. Without optimizing all three, it's a tough business...and without many thousands of mailings, you can't optimize.
I completely understand that, I guess I was hoping to find out some type of gauge of what to expect, but I see now it's a silly question. There is way too many variables (quality of the list, presentation - handwritten, size of envelope, etc etc... what you say in the letter to how well you talk to them on the phone, experience level of person doing the campaign, etc.) making it impossible for someone to say " you should get % of replies / deals".
The bulk mail permit does not cost HUNDREDS. It cost $190.00 that is all. 100 STAMPS is gonna cost you $45.00. So youre going to spend $450.00 on stamps alone for 1k letters not including whatever other cost you have. Envelopes, paper ink, etc.
After the first mailing your cost will be below $450
Standard stamp is a great option for savings...
The permit is 190 however there's also a post office application fee of another 190. However your second year the app fee is not due.
If you use standard stamps you'll have to mail a minimum of 200 pieces at a time and youll have tomail them at a designated post office. That can be a pain.
Also the standard stamp doesn't get cancelled... the squiggly lines over the stamp so it looks odd. We actually place a cancel over the stamp so it looks normal to the addressee.
We use a black ink pad Stamper. They run about 110 bucks and last about 80,000 stamps.
There are some other issues with using standard stamps however nothing too big..