First Wholesale Deal

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First Wholesale Deal

Account Closed
Wholesaler · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes

Hi Guys ~ 

I have a property under contract, that will be my first wholesale deal, barring any disasters. 

The house is an extreme hoarder house. The heirs inherited the property. One of the siblings had lived in it for years and filled it up to knee level in junk. He is no longer living there and it is now vacant. According to the owner, the city threatened to condemn it, but they have not moved to do so as of yet. It is a 2 Bedroom 1 Bath, with 1450 Square Feet of Living Area. Property sits on 0.52 Acre. 

I got the property under contract at what I believe is a good price. It's just under the tax assessed Land Value. 

I am meeting with potential Buyers this week. I want to make sure I market the property at a good price, so both my Buyer and I will walk away with a great deal. 

Here are the numbers so far:

ARV = 120,000

This is based on comps for 3 Br properties sold within past year, within 0.5 miles. The home is in the city's "Historic District". I would assume buyer would make it into 3 and at least 1.5 bath, given the size of the property. If it was kept as a two bedroom ARV would only be about 80,000.


Purchase Price: $11,500 . Contract signed with Seller. $10 Due Diligence, 30 day period. $10 EMD.

Rehab Estimate: $50,000 . (This is a very rough estimate for a full rehab. For a 1450 square foot house, I think a lot can be done for 50K.)

Asking Price: 34,000 (ARV 120,000 x .70 = 84,000 - Rehab 50,000 = 34,000 )

Desired Wholesale Fee/Profit: 22,500. (Selling Price 34000 - Purchase Price $11,500 = $22,500 )

Is this a good asking price? Buyer should stand to profit at least 25,000 for the Flip. 

View report

*This link comes directly from our calculators, based on information input by the member who posted.

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Nathan Morgan
Flipper/Rehabber · Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 11 votes
6y

@Oren Markowitz congrats on your deal my brotha don’t feed in to people that try to down you. Keep it going and continue your success man!

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  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Glidden Rivera:

    @John Thedford

    You may be right, I'm considering the fact that this is his first wholesale deal. These forums are to create dialogue and hopefully learn. I think the numbers are not great on this deal because he is sucking a lot of the juice out of the deal by being heavy handed. Typically wholesalers are aggressive on ARV's and conservative on real expenses.

    I probably wouldn’t do this deal as an investor,

    Because there is not enough meet on the bone.

    I myself am making an effort to build people as much as possible, unfortunately; we can’t make people honorable.

    This could be a good deal for everyone involved, if greed doesn’t make it a one sided deal.

    Honestly 5k assignment fee on this deal would be reasonable. At this rate, he would likely come through for the seller, the 22k he intends to make is a definitive barrier to the sale.

    I definitely understand why this deal would make you mad.

    If the OP actually pulled this off and the heirs found out how much they were screwed out of how would they feel? These operators DO NOT provide a service. That is just their propaganda. Now if the OP fails to pull it off.. heirs would be mad as well. Either way it is bad for the sellers. They are being deceived.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Wholesaler · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Glidden Rivera:

    @John Thedford

    You may be right, I'm considering the fact that this is his first wholesale deal. These forums are to create dialogue and hopefully learn. I think the numbers are not great on this deal because he is sucking a lot of the juice out of the deal by being heavy handed. Typically wholesalers are aggressive on ARV's and conservative on real expenses.

    I probably wouldn’t do this deal as an investor,

    Because there is not enough meet on the bone.

    I myself am making an effort to build people as much as possible, unfortunately; we can’t make people honorable.

    This could be a good deal for everyone involved, if greed doesn’t make it a one sided deal.

    Honestly 5k assignment fee on this deal would be reasonable. At this rate, he would likely come through for the seller, the 22k he intends to make is a definitive barrier to the sale.

    I definitely understand why this deal would make you mad.

     Glidden, thanks for the constructive input. It sounds like you are a totally using some  reason in your analysis, rather than trying to pigeonhole all wholesalers like the bottomfeeder who hijacked this post has been doing. 

    If I need to lower my assignment fee, then that's what I will do to make the deal work for everyone involved. I am not rigidly fixated on a number I need in terms of profit. I am simply putting it out there to get some constructive feedback like others have offered. Unfortunately,  John Thedford has made it hard to actually have a decent dialogue regarding analysis if the actual deal. I think the moderators should step ina and ban him as I see he has done this on many prior posts in the Wholesale forum. 

    0Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Glidden Rivera:

    @John Thedford

    You may be right, I'm considering the fact that this is his first wholesale deal. These forums are to create dialogue and hopefully learn. I think the numbers are not great on this deal because he is sucking a lot of the juice out of the deal by being heavy handed. Typically wholesalers are aggressive on ARV's and conservative on real expenses.

    I probably wouldn’t do this deal as an investor,

    Because there is not enough meet on the bone.

    I myself am making an effort to build people as much as possible, unfortunately; we can’t make people honorable.

    This could be a good deal for everyone involved, if greed doesn’t make it a one sided deal.

    Honestly 5k assignment fee on this deal would be reasonable. At this rate, he would likely come through for the seller, the 22k he intends to make is a definitive barrier to the sale.

    I definitely understand why this deal would make you mad.

     Glidden, thanks for the constructive input. It sounds like you are a totally using some  reason in your analysis, rather than trying to pigeonhole all wholesalers like the bottomfeeder who hijacked this post has been doing. 

    If I need to lower my assignment fee, then that's what I will do to make the deal work for everyone involved. I am not rigidly fixated on a number I need in terms of profit. I am simply putting it out there to get some constructive feedback like others have offered. Unfortunately,  John Thedford has made it hard to actually have a decent dialogue regarding analysis if the actual deal. I think the moderators should step ina and ban him as I see he has done this on many prior posts in the Wholesale forum. 

    "Bottomfeeder"...say what? Sounds like the facts have you upset!

     It is hard to offer constructive feedback to those that deceive sellers and violate brokerage laws.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Wholesaler · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Glidden Rivera:

    @John Thedford

    You may be right, I'm considering the fact that this is his first wholesale deal. These forums are to create dialogue and hopefully learn. I think the numbers are not great on this deal because he is sucking a lot of the juice out of the deal by being heavy handed. Typically wholesalers are aggressive on ARV's and conservative on real expenses.

    I probably wouldn’t do this deal as an investor,

    Because there is not enough meet on the bone.

    I myself am making an effort to build people as much as possible, unfortunately; we can’t make people honorable.

    This could be a good deal for everyone involved, if greed doesn’t make it a one sided deal.

    Honestly 5k assignment fee on this deal would be reasonable. At this rate, he would likely come through for the seller, the 22k he intends to make is a definitive barrier to the sale.

    I definitely understand why this deal would make you mad.

     Glidden, thanks for the constructive input. It sounds like you are a totally using some  reason in your analysis, rather than trying to pigeonhole all wholesalers like the bottomfeeder who hijacked this post has been doing. 

    If I need to lower my assignment fee, then that's what I will do to make the deal work for everyone involved. I am not rigidly fixated on a number I need in terms of profit. I am simply putting it out there to get some constructive feedback like others have offered. Unfortunately,  John Thedford has made it hard to actually have a decent dialogue regarding analysis if the actual deal. I think the moderators should step ina and ban him as I see he has done this on many prior posts in the Wholesale forum. 

    "Bottomfeeder"...say what? Sounds like the facts have you upset!

     It is hard to offer constructive feedback to those that deceive sellers and violate brokerage laws.

    Sounds like you have a pretty distorted view of the concept of "facts". You haven't been able to offer a single one. If I were you I would spend less time hijacking people's forum posts and gratifying yourself, and more time working on more sensible arguments. 

    0Reply
  • Gabriel GraumannPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2019 · 165 posts · 100 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed I'll start by saying congrats on door knocking, call around or whatever activities you took to find your first deal. That is hurdle that most real estate investors fail to complete, so regardless the outcome, you're making progress. Now for the deal itself.

    It's hard to truly comment on whether it's a deal or not unless all of the terms and conditions and requirements are known. You've referenced a few and glossed over others. For instance, your comments for the renovation suggest it's a full gut and rebuild plus a higher than average demo and haul/dump. In the NW where I live, a "rough" but accurate rule of thumb for remodel costs are $50/sf for a starting benchmark if you're not removing a bunch of walls and a reconfiguration of the layout, etc. So just on that metric your budget is $20K off. Permits or no permits? Designs, architect fees, etc? How much time will this take? If the house is deemed historic there are preservation requirements in many communities that require you to show the renovation designs to a separate review committee before permits for work will be issued, and this additional layer can add months in some cases, plus additional design and build costs as certain materials and craftsmanship may be required.

    I also did not see holding costs or resale costs, two elements that nearly all flippers will face. Unless they are truly all cash (no hard or borrowed money) and also a real estate broker intending to sell themselves and not pay themselves a commission, they'll still have to pay the other side 2-3%, plus excise tax, title/escrow fees, and attorney fees in some states. These are pretty fixed costs that need to be factored into the potential wholesale terms.

    If all of the above can be resolved and there is still a profit of 15%-25% to the buyer, and you can pay yourself a fee you believe is worth the effort, then and only then do you truly have a deal.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Wholesaler · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Gabriel Graumann:

    @Account Closed I'll start by saying congrats on door knocking, call around or whatever activities you took to find your first deal. That is hurdle that most real estate investors fail to complete, so regardless the outcome, you're making progress. Now for the deal itself.

    It's hard to truly comment on whether it's a deal or not unless all of the terms and conditions and requirements are known. You've referenced a few and glossed over others. For instance, your comments for the renovation suggest it's a full gut and rebuild plus a higher than average demo and haul/dump. In the NW where I live, a "rough" but accurate rule of thumb for remodel costs are $50/sf for a starting benchmark if you're not removing a bunch of walls and a reconfiguration of the layout, etc. So just on that metric your budget is $20K off. Permits or no permits? Designs, architect fees, etc? How much time will this take? If the house is deemed historic there are preservation requirements in many communities that require you to show the renovation designs to a separate review committee before permits for work will be issued, and this additional layer can add months in some cases, plus additional design and build costs as certain materials and craftsmanship may be required.

    I also did not see holding costs or resale costs, two elements that nearly all flippers will face. Unless they are truly all cash (no hard or borrowed money) and also a real estate broker intending to sell themselves and not pay themselves a commission, they'll still have to pay the other side 2-3%, plus excise tax, title/escrow fees, and attorney fees in some states. These are pretty fixed costs that need to be factored into the potential wholesale terms.

    If all of the above can be resolved and there is still a profit of 15%-25% to the buyer, and you can pay yourself a fee you believe is worth the effort, then and only then do you truly have a deal.

     Gabriel. Thank you for taking the time to reply with a well thought out response.

    Thank you for the encouragement,  as clearly, it can be tough for newbies like myself to get some traction.  

    In terms of the figure I got for the rehab. From local rehabbers I have spoken with, the rough estimate they have used would put a full gut rehab with a couple of major items like Roof, AC, at 35 per s ft. I used that for a 1450 s ft house to get the 50k. I certainly realize that this may be off. The conditions inside the property have made it somewhat difficult to get a more detailed estimate  . I have brought a buyer who is an active flipper to look at the property, and he did agree that it may be in the right ballpark, but also shared some reservations a about the cost exceeding that. I was not sure if a buyer coming in would give an accurate accounting of the rehab cost just by doing the walkthrough.  

    The accounting for the holding costs and resale costs are included in my attached analysis report. I definitely have a long way to go in terms of more accurately accounting all those ancillary costs, but this will come with more experience. 

    0Reply
  • Timothy B. Dunn
    New to Real Estate · Mt. Vernon, IL · Member since 2019 · 39 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @John Thedford I am new to the world of wholesaling and some of the terms are foreign to me. What is the EMD? I am thinking something in the lines of earnest money down???

    In many other blogs, especially ones that pertain to the Brrrr strategy, the goal of the purchaser is to find and make the very best deal possible when acquiring the initial property. So my honest question is what is unethical about what the original poster did in this case? It seems to me that he made his intentions clear to the seller who apparently wanted to get out from under a property that was a burden to the owner.

    If both parties get something of value out of the deal, why is it unethical?

    Please understand that I am not taking sides on this topic, just trying to really understand the concept and the proper way to conduct ourselves when trying to make the initial purchase.

    1Reply
  • Rich S.
    Central, MN · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 184 votes
    6y

    The unfortunate truth that keeps ringing in this post.... some folks believe all wholesalers are scammers and other people believe because you have a real estate license you can do no wrong. The honest truth is, there are wholesalers who scam people and those that don't. There are realtors that break plenty of rules and those that don't. There are good and bad people in both categories. Are there checks and balances that "legally" are there when dealing with licensed folks? Sure.. are there less with wholesalers, probably so. In my experience, realtors have issues with wholesalers because they are a threat. In different parts of the country they are breaking the law-- most could care less, unless it affects their day to day and wholesalers do affect the day to day of realtors. How much is made on an assignment really shouldn't matter. As a realtor... say you have two listings, both for $250,000. One sells in one day, with only MLS listing, after one showing, for full asking price. The other takes 5 months, but you eventually get it sold for list price. 5 months of marketing, 50 plus showings, etc. Is any realtor taking less commission on the one day sale? I highly doubt it... but aren't you scamming folks as they paid the same price for way less work and effort? Or is it OK because you are telling folks exactly how much you are making off the sale of their home? If any wholesaler or realtor is forcing folks into a contract they don't understand or don't agree with, then I agree, they are getting scammed. If folks willingly enter into a contract and aren't defrauded, it isn't a scam. Also, in regard to EMD, when a wholesaler puts $$$ down, it is THEIR OWN MONEY, correct? When a realtor representing a buyer puts EMD, it is the BUYERS money, no? Seems a wholesaler has more skin in the game than a realtor in the EMD category.

    In regard to your deal, too many variables.  As was pointed out, I don't think it is fair to do a valuation based on a different bed/bath total than what exists, except to potentially show a buyer there is more meat on the bone.  As far as assignment fee, its negotiable and the one benefit of working with wholesalers, in my opinion, is their fee is much more negotiable than a realtors fee.  If you are open to offers, best to be in the right ballpark to start with a go from there.  A wholesaler might close in one day for half their suggested fee.   

    3Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Timothy B. Dunn:

    @John Thedford I am new to the world of wholesaling and some of the terms are foreign to me. What is the EMD? I am thinking something in the lines of earnest money down???

    In many other blogs, especially ones that pertain to the Brrrr strategy, the goal of the purchaser is to find and make the very best deal possible when acquiring the initial property. So my honest question is what is unethical about what the original poster did in this case? It seems to me that he made his intentions clear to the seller who apparently wanted to get out from under a property that was a burden to the owner.

    If both parties get something of value out of the deal, why is it unethical?

    Please understand that I am not taking sides on this topic, just trying to really understand the concept and the proper way to conduct ourselves when trying to make the initial purchase.

    Good question. Here is what most unlicensed brokers do that is WRONG
    1. They represent themselves as a buyer and then if they have no success they walk away. They are BROKERING real estate without a license. That is ILLEGAL.
    2. Signing contracts with NO MONEY OR INTENTION to close is FRAUD. 
    This "buyer" put down $20 EMD---earnest money deposit. A REAL buyer would put down more. Why only $20? Because that is all they are willing to risk if they have no success. This "buyer" asked for 30 days due diligence. Does it take 30 days to determine if the house is a good buy or not? NO. They are stringing the seller out in an attempt to illegally broker the deal. As I stated above, I would bet 1K this supposed buyer walks if he has no success. Also see my post where I pointed out that any way this turns out the seller is getting screwed. Can someone buy under market ethically? YOU BET! This "buyer" is NOT A GENUINE BUYER. He is using purchase and sale contracts as defacto listing agreements. When REAL ETHICAL BUYERS purchase under market value they BUY---they put down legitimate EMD and CLOSE! They don't play games with sellers. If the seller knew how much money they are getting screwed out of would they be happy? If this "buyer" walks would the seller be happy? Either way NO! So--it is NOT a good deal...the seller will be the loser--and this "'buyer" that claims they are benefiting the seller is simply pushing unlicensed broker PROPAGANDA!

    How does one "properly" conduct a purchase--whether at market value or well under market value? They don't mislead sellers. They HONOR their word. They don't skirt and break real estate brokerage laws. They operate honestly and ethically. That is NOT how these unlicensed brokers operate. 

    0Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Rich S.:

    The unfortunate truth that keeps ringing in this post.... some folks believe all wholesalers are scammers and other people believe because you have a real estate license you can do no wrong. The honest truth is, there are wholesalers who scam people and those that don't. There are realtors that break plenty of rules and those that don't. There are good and bad people in both categories. Are there checks and balances that "legally" are there when dealing with licensed folks? Sure.. are there less with wholesalers, probably so. In my experience, realtors have issues with wholesalers because they are a threat. In different parts of the country they are breaking the law-- most could care less, unless it affects their day to day and wholesalers do affect the day to day of realtors. How much is made on an assignment really shouldn't matter. As a realtor... say you have two listings, both for $250,000. One sells in one day, with only MLS listing, after one showing, for full asking price. The other takes 5 months, but you eventually get it sold for list price. 5 months of marketing, 50 plus showings, etc. Is any realtor taking less commission on the one day sale? I highly doubt it... but aren't you scamming folks as they paid the same price for way less work and effort? Or is it OK because you are telling folks exactly how much you are making off the sale of their home? If any wholesaler or realtor is forcing folks into a contract they don't understand or don't agree with, then I agree, they are getting scammed. If folks willingly enter into a contract and aren't defrauded, it isn't a scam. Also, in regard to EMD, when a wholesaler puts $$$ down, it is THEIR OWN MONEY, correct? When a realtor representing a buyer puts EMD, it is the BUYERS money, no? Seems a wholesaler has more skin in the game than a realtor in the EMD category.

    In regard to your deal, too many variables.  As was pointed out, I don't think it is fair to do a valuation based on a different bed/bath total than what exists, except to potentially show a buyer there is more meat on the bone.  As far as assignment fee, its negotiable and the one benefit of working with wholesalers, in my opinion, is their fee is much more negotiable than a realtors fee.  If you are open to offers, best to be in the right ballpark to start with a go from there.  A wholesaler might close in one day for half their suggested fee.   

     If unlicensed brokers are violating the laws--that is a scam.
    If they are misleading sellers, that is a scam.
    If they borrow $20 from their mom to use for EMD_-their mom loses:)
    Assignment fees are BLIND transactions. Sellers have no idea how much they are losing.
    Agents have accountability, can be fined, have their license suspended, have required training, E&O insurance, etc. Unlicensed brokers have NONE.
    When sellers sign a LISTING agreement they know EXACTLY what it costs. LISTING AGREEMENTS. Unlicensed brokers use PURCHASE agreements as defacto listing agreements. They OFTEN lie to sellers stating they are buyers when they are NOT. 
    Listing agreements are clear and concise and NOT used to deceive sellers into believing their house is sold.
    I know LEGAL LICENSED wholesalers. They CLOSE if they cannot find a buyer. 

    I don''t know ANY educated sellers that would accept $20 and 30 days due diligence. I doubt any unlicensed broker with experience deceiving sellers would accept the same BS terms they offer UNSUSPECTING or DESPERATE AND UNSUSPECTING sellers. The State of Florida investigators with DBPR calls people VICTIMS that end up dealing with these types of operators.

    SEE MY POST TITLED SHTF---the true story of how I help an uneducated sellers get out of the clutches of one of these operators.

    0Reply
  • Timothy Hero
    Lender · United States · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 499 votes
    6y

    Congrats on the first deal Oren. Celebrate with your loved ones, take it all in, be grateful, then get back to work to achieve #2.

    2Reply
  • Jeshua Patrick
    Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2017 · 298 posts · 232 votes
    6y

    @John Thedford I think you should rethink your approach. Would you try to have a civil conversation with or even listen to someone who you asked for advice if they immediately started calling names and treating you like a worthless human being?

    You are correct in many of your points; however, especially when someone references a deal being their first, understand that they likely don’t know what you know and are probably working with bad information regarding what is legally acceptable and the proper way to do things.

    While the OP is going about things the wrong way, I’m sure he would love to have a legitimate conversation about how to do things correctly had you not vehemently attacked him as you did. If not, then at least you can extract yourself from the conversation,while having added value to it for the other readers, without looking like a complete jerk.

    5Reply
  • Rich S.
    Central, MN · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 184 votes
    6y

    If unlicensed brokers are violating the laws--that is a scam. - I don't disagree
    If they are misleading sellers, that is a scam.- You talk as if all they do is mislead- meaning they intentionally misinform the buyer- 100% of the time and you act as if 100% of realtors operate 100% above board, 100% of the time.
    If they borrow $20 from their mom to use for EMD_-their mom loses:) - no realtors have ever borrowed $$ from Mom I suppose?
    Assignment fees are BLIND transactions. Sellers have no idea how much they are losing.- If you give a seller confidence they can sell for $100,000 but the property sits and sits and sits... and they sell for $80,000, it is better because seller KNEW how much they lost?
    Agents have accountability, can be fined, have their license suspended, have required training, E&O insurance, etc. Unlicensed brokers have NONE. -CAN be fined, not necessarily will?  How often is a license suspended?  Just because people are trained doesn't mean they execute on that training.  E and O insurance is basically WE PAY so our mistakes are covered.  These ALL have good intentions, but it doesn't mean they are all followed.  It also doesn't mean that folks without these things, can't do good things.
    When sellers sign a LISTING agreement they know EXACTLY what it costs. LISTING AGREEMENTS. Unlicensed brokers use PURCHASE agreements as defacto listing agreements. They OFTEN lie to sellers stating they are buyers when they are NOT. - Do they really know EXACTLY what it costs?  I'm listed for $250,000- you tell me it will sell for that... after fees I clear $230,000 so its cost me $30,000-- but house sits 3 months... list price drops... buyer wants closing costs... now I'm getting $210,000... but you had me sign a new contract-- just like a wholeseller might if their X days are up...  I just don't buy that the realtor side is always better, is all I am saying.   
    Listing agreements are clear and concise and NOT used to deceive sellers into believing their house is sold.- There is nothing concise about a listing agreementd(IMO)... nothing(in MN minimum of 4 solid pages)... and last I checked... everyday many agreements are signed that are never followed up on.  I've TWICE on my on personal residences agreed to terms with a seller(accepted their counter) only to have that basically shredded to start over because someone was unhappy-- so even done the "right way" in your world, doesn't mean it is full proof.  I thought my house was SOLD as well... but it was not.
    I know LEGAL LICENSED wholesalers. They CLOSE if they cannot find a buyer.- Which is great.. more evidence to my theory that NOT ALL WHOLESALERS ARE BAD, just like NOT ALL REALTORS ARE GOOD.

    I don''t know ANY educated sellers that would accept $20 and 30 days due diligence. I doubt any unlicensed broker with experience deceiving sellers would accept the same BS terms they offer UNSUSPECTING or DESPERATE AND UNSUSPECTING sellers. The State of Florida investigators with DBPR calls people VICTIMS that end up dealing with these types of operators. - In the specific scenario that started this post... house was inherited, has been vacant, hoarder house... it isn't a shiny MLS listing you can show tomorrow.  Most realtors wouldn't even take it as a listing.  I agree with your premise, but million dollar deals have been done with nothing more than handshake, doesn't mean they are bad because they are terms you wouldn't accept.

    My entire point of my posts is that many are WAY TOO QUICK to throw all wholesalers under the bus and way to quick to assume a realtor with a license is flawless... that is the basic premise.  I don't wholesale, but don't think the only people that do are scam artists.  I also have seen the way realtors treat many of the folks with listings that make sense for wholesaling... often distressed, bad shape, low value assets.  There are many realtors that either won't take that type of listing or spend zero time on it while the seller just goes along for the ride and realtor is hoping to make a small commission for little to no work.  There are two sides to this... the wholesalers that do it right , are wrongfully grouped in with those that don't, as are the realtors that do it right are wrongfully lumped in with those that don't. I truly believe you think this "wholesaling" thing only exists for crooked people to take advantage of other people, when in reality I think it really exists because there is market demand for listings of that type that the licensed crowd doesn't serve well.

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Contractor · Eureka, CA · Member since 2015 · 100 posts · 64 votes
    6y

    @Oren Markowitz From what I have seen this guy serially harasses wholesalers lol, out of some personal axe to grind I guess? Not sure, but I wouldn't take it personally.

    3Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Oren Markowitz I think your wholesale fee is too large and I think the house might be worth nothing honestly. What’s the inside condition like?

    I’d add 10k to your purchase contract and go with that as your price. I doubt this moves at your current asking price.

    1Reply
  • Fitzroy Harvey
    New to Real Estate · Poughkeepsie, New York. · Member since 2019 · 26 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Oren Markowitz

    That sounds like a pretty good deal to me sir. Base on what I have been learning from others, reading and listen 👂. I am just jumping into wholesaling myself and I come here every day to learn from the experts and also the newbies. My understanding was that this forum was to help and teach each other not to step on 🤔. What list did you find this property from and what source did you get your list from? I get mines from list source and I skip trace it @ RREISKIP.COM I get 95% accurate. My mother uses to say if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything. As long as you are 100% honest with your sellers i would ignore the 🔊

    1Reply
  • Jacob Kline
    Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2019 · 74 posts · 47 votes
    6y

    @Oren Markowitz don’t let this Thedford guy get you down.

    Looks like you’ve got a good spread on the deal and should close. The buyer willingly signed your contract and likely will be happy to get rid of their problem. Good for you!

    1Reply
  • Jacob Kline
    Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2019 · 74 posts · 47 votes
    6y

    @John Thedford get a life man.

    I’m sure it’s pretty boring to loan your hard money out at 20% and just collect checks, but don’t just sit there and bash people who are grinding. You assume every person who assigns a contract is screwing people, ridiculous.

    2Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jacob Kline:

    @John Thedford get a life man.

    I’m sure it’s pretty boring to loan your hard money out at 20% and just collect checks, but don’t just sit there and bash people who are grinding. You assume every person who assigns a contract is screwing people, ridiculous.

     Actually collecting checks is a BLAST! So is turning in unlicensed brokers that are victimizing the public and doing it on MY dime:)

    0Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Oren Markowitz From what I have seen this guy serially harasses wholesalers lol, out of some personal axe to grind I guess? Not sure, but I wouldn't take it personally.

    When you have seen and met victims of these types you might feel differently. These types VICTIMIZE sellers. Would you be happy if your mom or sister signed a contract with this guy? Better yet....would YOU sign a contract like that? 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Wholesaler · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    @Oren Markowitz I think your wholesale fee is too large and I think the house might be worth nothing honestly. What’s the inside condition like?

    I’d add 10k to your purchase contract and go with that as your price. I doubt this moves at your current asking price.

     Caleb, why do you think the house might be worth nothing? The condition inside is bad, but it's hard to look past the junk. 

    Here is one of the pics:

    Sorry, couldn't figure out how to change orientation. 

    Thanks for your input. 

    0Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    @Oren Markowitz I think your wholesale fee is too large and I think the house might be worth nothing honestly. What’s the inside condition like?

    I’d add 10k to your purchase contract and go with that as your price. I doubt this moves at your current asking price.

     Caleb, why do you think the house might be worth nothing? The condition inside is bad, but it's hard to look past the junk. 

    Here is one of the pics:

    Sorry, couldn't figure out how to change orientation. 

    Thanks for your input.


    when the cost to rehab exceeds the value of the house, the house isn’t worth anything.  This house needs to be gutted.  It’s in a historic district, which means everything will take longer and be more expensive. 
    your 50k rehab estimate is made entirely out of thin air. It’s not based on anything concrete. 
    you’re trying to make as much money as the rehabber.  Most experienced rehabbers won’t pay anywhere near 30k for this.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Wholesaler · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Fitzroy Harvey:

    @Oren Markowitz

    That sounds like a pretty good deal to me sir. Base on what I have been learning from others, reading and listen 👂. I am just jumping into wholesaling myself and I come here every day to learn from the experts and also the newbies. My understanding was that this forum was to help and teach each other not to step on 🤔. What list did you find this property from and what source did you get your list from? I get mines from list source and I skip trace it @ RREISKIP.COM I get 95% accurate. My mother uses to say if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything. As long as you are 100% honest with your sellers i would ignore the 🔊

     Fitzroy, 

    Thanks for your comments. I did not have a list. I drove for dollars for weeks and then skiptraced owner information. I tried REISKIP, but don't think I got nearly as good a success rate as you did! I found BeenVerified to be more useful . As far as ignoring what the blowhards have to say, I am usually pretty good at that, but this guy is just beside himself. 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Wholesaler · Huntersville, NC · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 21 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:
    Originally posted by @Zack Thiesen:

    @Oren Markowitz From what I have seen this guy serially harasses wholesalers lol, out of some personal axe to grind I guess? Not sure, but I wouldn't take it personally.

    When you have seen and met victims of these types you might feel differently. These types VICTIMIZE sellers. Would you be happy if your mom or sister signed a contract with this guy? Better yet....would YOU sign a contract like that? 

    Owners and several family members were happy to meet with me and sign the contract, because they knew the alternative was to get nothing and watch their home get destroyed by the city. I wold lovee to see you run over there and represent them as their sellers' agent. What are the chances? What value would they get from you and your stellar Broker representation? 

    0Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @John Thedford

    They are not competition. They are predators. Licensed agents and REAL buyers are competition.

    I do buy and hold rentals and only refer leads. Rentals give me freedom.

    0Reply
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