BiggerPockets

I am into Internet marketing as well as Real Estate but never mix the two as far as building real estate digital download internet programs. I have also been on the backend of some of these new REI program releases. They are nothing more than rehashed real estate info repackaged and sold in a way that Internet marketers sale or promote. What's crazy is the challenges if you sell the most B.S. as an affiliate to these digital download systems . Top seller gets 5 or 10 thousand dollars in cold cash 2nd place gets Kindle fire and so on. That let's me know it's not designed to help you the newbie investor. Internet marketing is designed to work on automation because the product is online. Real Estate on the other had is a trench system always has been always will be. You can use the Internet to leverage info (I.e. buyers/sellers list or how to locate pre foreclosures they have paid sites that sell you this info. Etc.) but you have to know something about the property that you are trying to sell. Even with notes I still have to call banks and know what to say and have all my ducks inline before I can get a pool. Even if I broker the notes there are still contracts involved. So how could I sell you a program that does all of this and you live in New England and I live in Texas. There are different laws that govern and you could very much loose your assets or be jailed listening to me tell you how I do it in Texas.

They are making money twice the guy who sent you the email customized with you name, and the guy who created the program. Think about this they send you the link you click out and a new price appears. Lol that a joke! They are internet marketers selling online real estate at a time where real estate is vulnerable. It's a niche to them BEWARE.

You could learn more on Bigger Pockets for free.

@Michael Quarles - do you mean to tell us that reading the newspaper has given them the ideas? :) LOL And I thought the internet is causing the newspapers to die a slow death ...

Noticeably, real estate gurus are vehemently hated with great adulation by some BP posters. After reading their accusations, half-truths and judgments, I am concerned.

Realize, many non-real estate people are directed to BP for information about real estate investors and the industry in general.

What conclusion do you think they come to when reading these posts? The majority of which are based on supposition, are hateful, sarcastic, witless and thus, useless.

After reading these posts, what kind of people do you think will gravitate to our industry?

I submit to you, our real estate industry is rewarding, serving, profitable, challenging and downright fun.

As in all industries, there are pro guru's and, sleaze-bag gurus.

There are about five educators (who you call Guru's) that I hold in very high regard and i will say without hesitation, "what they forget about the real estate in day is more than you (me included) would learn in a lifetime." This includes the High Minded BP Guru writers too.

For over 20 years the few Gurus I learn from do charge for their seminars and rightly so, at an average of $500 per. Others are local pros who genuinely like to help people succeed as long as you try. They are in every town regardless of size and, are true servant leaders.

They do NOT mentor me for a FEE. They eagerly help me with transactions on the phone without an appointment and never ask for a penny in return, true mentors.

Their character and integrity are exemplified without conscious effort and that says something.

They explain the good and the bad aspects of real estate and most importantly, they hold themselves accountable.

How about BP Guru's? Many are noticeably absent of unaccountable as they write behind initials only. Are you including them your opinion of gurus? Evidently so.

Of course, we exclude women from this category of "initials only" for their own safety. These days, regrettably, all women deserve and need the protection of privacy.

My wife's refrigerator magnet says... "Don't judge people just because they sin differently than you do."

Well said and OUCH! Certainly, reminds me of the judgmental and stupid things I say and do, daily. I'm just thankful people are so forgiving. How about you?

Yes, it would take a conscious effort but why not spend our time in a servant leadership role producing good things instead of slander?

As my Dad, a 90-year ex-Iowa farmer says, "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say it." Simple enough, wouldn't you agree?

My vote is, we blow right by the ever-expanding governmental control of our free enterprise real estate business and use our talents and knowledge learned from our gurus to create cleaner, smarter, other-centered, self-reliant real estate transactions to benefit fellow BP members, our family, friends, neighbors, state and nation.

My vote, appreciate not denigrate.
Kent

@Michael Quarles, hey man, did you get parolled? LOL, How are ya?

Where do they get ideas? I'd bet many come from other gurus, I believe there is a secret club that devises the secrets of real estate....really, you have to expect them to communicate among themselves to some extent.

I admit, I have seen some good marketing aspects from a few. I have never seen anything that is new but an old basic idea that was adapted to some niche and presented as new.

BP is the second RE forum site I found years ago. After participating in the forums I found that it was a "guru" owned site, but he rarely posted. I'd give him a C+, maybe a B-. I didn't have direct contact with him, but with the site admin, they made me a moderator even after being critical of some of the material there and found that some updates then conformed to my suggestions. Many here have been there. I mention this because that's where it started, my comments on guru subjects.

The danger is, that many of the wannabe gurus, some here, give bad advice, some actually advocating illegal activities and some saying basically ignore the regulations and go make some money.

The other issue is most aren't qualified to teach the class, the have poorly written contracts, I was recently sent one to review and the Option kept referring to the parties as "Buyer" and "Seller" instead of "Optionee" and "Optionor" and indication that the promoter doesn't have a clue.

I made a few enemies bashing and in a couple instances running off some wannabies from that other site....too bad, just as Josh deems a finance bunch as off limits here, I did so there with good reason. Sometimes they pop up here, so now you have some history.

I was a finance cop, a regulator and still have that mindset and will continue to have. That is a threat to any wannabe guru attempting to establish a presence of expertise with poor advice or limited knowledge. I see where one possible wannabie referrs to his expierence as something like substantial or in vague terms, certainly a red flag.

I see others who hide thier profile, what does that say?

I can tell who knows thier stuff and who blows smoke, the difference between marketing and meat. Those that blow smoke should expect to be called out, if that makes me a BP guru, so be it, at least my opinion won't cost you.

I think readers are better served on BP with some of the older members, that have actual knowledge and experience, that will jump in and curb the marketeers, especially those who are new and have not proven thier expertise in detail, simply making claims as to "how to" especially when they are offering "coaching" or "programs" for a fee.

My goal is pretty simple, keep new (and maybe more established investors) from getting in trouble, getting ripped off or following bad advice, I don't charge a dime doing it. Take it or leave it.

I had a person call me the other day out of the blue. He had saved up around 25,000 to get started in real estate. These people with courses were hounding him trying to get him to spend all his money.

I told him what I thought which is that if he is going to spend any money do it LOCALLY with other experienced investors in his marketplace. Take them to lunch, coffee, whatever to find a way to learn from them what is working in their local market.

Many of these national programs just re-hash existing stuff or say strategies that will not be as effective in the program purchasers market.

Usually if an investor is interested in a topic they can find people who have already bought the course, or you can buy their book which lists most of the info anyways for cheap, or look to Ebay or other places for people reselling what they bought for 10 cents on the dollar.

The point is do not take your hard earned money and give it away and then have nothing to invest in real estate. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I think the first thing people need to look at when jumping into real estate...is...what is the area that is a good niche for them? The stuff people sell in seminars etc. may very well work fine, but the attendees are so busy trying to find the next golden key that they buy everything and every level of course available.
When I got started, there were 2 people I kind of latched on to...but only after I decided lease options were the way I wanted to go.
Truth is though...that I spent a lot more than $5k or $10k trying to learn on my own and only partially relying on them.
I wish I had leaned on them more.
There is a lot more to real estate than contracts.
There is the whole business side to it.
Years later, I loathed the idea of teaching people how to do what I did, because of the stigma associated with the "gurus".
I had a booth at a RE convention many years ago for my business (not teaching) and I laughed at what I saw. Amazing.
There is a difference between a teacher and a salesman.
The secret, is knowing which you are dealing with.

I am one of the "guru haters" on this site and do not shy away from my stance whatsoever. I put guru hater in quotes because that might be how some people see my view, not because it is the truth. One thing to remember is this is a forum with many people reading, and it is very difficult to give advice to individuals unless you know all of the circumstances surrounding the situation...well that rarely, if ever happens. So, you have to give the best advice possible based on what you know.

I honestly believe most people are wasting money when the pay for guru programs, so when a new member comes to BP asking for advice I recommend they keep their money tight, at least until they learn a little bit about this business and take the time to research the program and people behind the program they are about to spend their money on.

Have a been sarcastic and even made a few witless comments...probably, but it is not because I hate all real estate investing "gurus", I just do not like seeing people make mistakes before they even get started. I am sure there are some great programs out there, and if someone has done their due diligence and is confident the program is the best use of their time and money, I wish them luck. However, I will continue to advice against people spending thousands of dollars they often do not have to spend on a program that may not teach them anything.

Originally posted by @James Vermillion:
I am one of the "guru haters" on this site and do not shy away from my stance whatsoever. I put guru hater in quotes because that might be how some people see my view, not because it is the truth. One thing to remember is this is a forum with many people reading, and it is very difficult to give advice to individuals unless you know all of the circumstances surrounding the situation...well that rarely, if ever happens. So, you have to give the best advice possible based on what you know.

I honestly believe most people are wasting money when the pay for guru programs, so when a new member comes to BP asking for advice I recommend they keep their money tight, at least until they learn a little bit about this business and take the time to research the program and people behind the program they are about to spend their money on.

Have a been sarcastic and even made a few witless comments...probably, but it is not because I hate all real estate investing "gurus", I just do not like seeing people make mistakes before they even get started. I am sure there are some great programs out there, and if someone has done their due diligence and is confident the program is the best use of their time and money, I wish them luck. However, I will continue to advice against people spending thousands of dollars they often do not have to spend on a program that may not teach them anything.

Hi James Vermillion (that's odd, the "at sign" from your name doesn't show - oh well) and all readers of BP...

REI IN A BOX?
IN HINDSIGHT, I would have taken a different route to my REI education. HOWEVER, I did learn a lot from @j. scott scheel (hey, @Joshua Dorkin, is the mention function a li'l buggy? i can't hail j scott scheel - a member here) thru his commercial RE seminars. he was fair and not so hype-y, when you compare him to the guru bunch, in his promotion of courses.

My reason for going to seminar world way back when was for similar reasons others did/do: i wanted to hit the ground running with the "proper" guidelines for evaluating property. i was hoping for a road map... a business plan in a box. i think this is similar to those who look for a training coach to get fit. no one needs a coach or trainer to lose weight, get healthy, etc. especially when you're the one doing all the work to get to that physical fitness you seek.

HINDSIGHT: 20/20
The reality of it is what I originally had hoped to learn in 5 days, I eventually came to understand in about 30-45 days of daily doing.

I coulda, shoulda, woulda spent the 5 days reading BP forums, listening to podcasts, and selected a few books from amazon for my foundation material.

Even the tools that are available today (and back then) aren't any good until you really understand the fundamentals. THEN, the tools are good for saving time - assuming they are working properly. The allure of guru's and their systems is the hope to follow a streamlined system ... the hope for the quickest path to riches.

WHO RIPPED WHOM OFF?
Maybe it's more an ethical question or is it a business question(?)... is it truly a waste of money when someone willingly pays for whatever package/system/house? :)

I think the value is best determined after proper DD (due diligence)! Just like buying a car or a house or a product/service, it's wise to take time to do the research before spending a large sum of $ towards your desired outcome. BUT if you choose to go with your gut, and you spent 20k for what you only later EVENTUALLY find out that you could have spent 20days reading BP, then NO ONE ripped you off. This is where we need to exercise some self-responsibility. come on, no one told you that they were the only and best way to making money... and even if they did, why would you choose to believe them? again, your personal choice. but..but.. they told me that I can make millions investing in commercial and with their guidance... sure, of course they did... and of course they're the best and only place to go to...

In the land of opportunity and we, the people, who know there are so many choices, maybe we need to exercise some critical thinking. I admit that I was enamored by the presentation and then the herd mentality guidance of (1 + guru + 20k = success) simplistic formula. only after eventual a$$ backwards DD and some critical thinking after the mass hypnosis did I realize other (better) paths of learning what I learned.

In most cases, including mine, I ripped myself off... I sold myself, just like most everyone who chose the guru/package/seminar did. I chose the illusion of the "shortcut" (that's what i believed, they didn't tell me it was a shortcut).

IF I ONLY KNEW THEN WHAT I KNOW NOW

ya, the best way to get to the above subtitle is by doing your dd before investing in anything.

i certainly learned the more expensive way (in time and money). was it worth it? I have nothing to compare it to... i have no what-if path to contrast. I've learned to look before i leap - where it deals with parting from a lump sum at least! the point is that I've learned the lesson of DD... and sure, tuition fees vary from person to person for that lesson. but if it's not this lesson you pay the price, there's a lotta other lessons that people will eventually pay "the price" for. ;)

This is an addition to the above post
I left out the part about sister (a) soon was an expert and prior to her demise

She was very helpful and decided to pass on some of her profound knowledge to sister B and her husband who lived in a nice neighborhood
Soon sisB found a home in aWonderland part of town called money land where sis A lived.

she had learned from one of the wizards that the property's there came with money trees in the yards, if you get in on one of these great deals they can hook you up with
they are worth more every day !
Sis B and hubby ....got in way way over their heads
And now thought they had to play keep up with the jones at the new place (more debt)
Listed Old house didn't sell so decided to try renting to help make both payments
Renters were lemons
They were to easy at first partial payments ect
Finally got sheriff to remove them after months and months
Within the next few days Hmmmm..... Vandals surly not those who were evicted decided to do a number on the place
And they didn't have the funds to fix or continue the payments
Not much later it was the big B for them
They got to stay in wonderland home
And the sisters both live close but avoid each other and run in different circles

Personally I don't blame the Gurus
Every lesson in life comes at a cost one way or another