Can anyone help me guesstimate needed amount for repairs from these photos?

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Can anyone help me guesstimate needed amount for repairs from these photos?

A.L. DeFalco
Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 6 votes

Hi all,

I am strongly considering purchasing a particular property as an investment. It is a three-family (3/2, 3/2, 3/1) in an area that is undergoing a major revitalization project and is relatively still affordable. It's in a walkable neighborhood filled with restaurants, bars, and stores. I just don't want to get in over my head and so if people who are more experienced than me can tell just be photos if this is a "no go" right at the outset I would be very appreciative. I am not local, so I would have someone I trust go and inspect the property if people feel it has potential at the right price.

It is currently for sale for $99,000. However, I would try to offer less due to the condition of the property. I already know, and someone else confirmed, that the exterior windows alone would take $10,000 or so to replace and are likely leaded/have lead paint. This is an older property that needs an extensive rehab.

Any help is appreciated.

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Jonathan R McLaughlin
Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y

not local=no trusted contractor=don't do this.

whats your exit plan? Condos or rentals? What would the units rent for?

At this level of renovation also assume that you may face upgrading requirements like sprinklers (40K) or what have you to get permits.

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  • Bob Okenwa
    Real Estate Agent/Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Without knowing exactly where you're at, the numbers will vary. My rehabs in Ohio cost considerably less than anything I've done in Phoenix.

    Judging by the photos and you being out of state and possibly not having the right connections, you're probably gonna spend more on the rehab than the cost of acquisition. 3 kitchens, 5 bathrooms, 3 furnaces, and 3 water heaters will cost a ton and I'm not even sure what the square footage is or the age of the property.

    Plumbing will probably need to be touched up, electrical and HVAC as well. I can throw out a random number but it wouldn't do any justice and I wouldn't consider it very accurate since I've not walked the property.

    Outside of the wood floors, there doesn't appear to be anything salvageable here. This is a six-figure full-gut rehab that'll last into the winter. This place looks like somewhere that gets cold and/or snowy winters so be aware of that as well.

    4Reply
  • Trevor Schmitt
    Rental Property Investor · Fargo, ND · Member since 2017 · 129 posts · 107 votes
    3y

    Get quotes from a minimum of three, aim for five, of the top-rated contractors in the area. After doing so it will become clear to you if this is feasible for your current situation. 

    Use Google to find a vet local companies. 

    You could also tag the location in this post and hope to attract local investors who could give you more specific advice or recommendation for contractors. 

    2Reply
  • A.L. DeFalco
    OP
    Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bob Okenwa:

    Without knowing exactly where you're at, the numbers will vary. My rehabs in Ohio cost considerably less than anything I've done in Phoenix.

    Judging by the photos and you being out of state and possibly not having the right connections, you're probably gonna spend more on the rehab than the cost of acquisition. 3 kitchens, 5 bathrooms, 3 furnaces, and 3 water heaters will cost a ton and I'm not even sure what the square footage is or the age of the property.

    Plumbing will probably need to be touched up, electrical and HVAC as well. I can throw out a random number but it wouldn't do any justice and I wouldn't consider it very accurate since I've not walked the property.

    Outside of the wood floors, there doesn't appear to be anything salvageable here. This is a six-figure full-gut rehab that'll last into the winter. This place looks like somewhere that gets cold and/or snowy winters so be aware of that as well.


     Thank you!! It's got only 3 bathrooms, not five (thankfully, lol). I will tag the location in this post (Albany NY). 

    0Reply
  • A.L. DeFalco
    OP
    Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Trevor Schmitt:

    Get quotes from a minimum of three, aim for five, of the top-rated contractors in the area. After doing so it will become clear to you if this is feasible for your current situation. 

    Use Google to find a vet local companies. 

    You could also tag the location in this post and hope to attract local investors who could give you more specific advice or recommendation for contractors. 


     Thank you! I will do that and also tag the location (Albany, NY)

    0Reply
  • A.L. DeFalco
    OP
    Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    3y

    Err, sorry. Anyone know how to tag a location on a post that's already been made?

    0Reply
  • Bob Okenwa
    Real Estate Agent/Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @A.L. DeFalco

    Thanks for the update. Being in upstate NY, you're against the clock here. You'll see snow in 3 months and pretty much all exterior work will grind to a halt so you may have to begin there. 

    Based on what I've seen, it snows into April there so you'll be up against mother nature for about 6 months and this looks like it'll be a 4-6 month project.

    If you could get the price super low, it may be a better option to wholesale/wholetail it and move on to something less extensive unless you have the experience, crew, and monetary backing to pull off such a project.

    0Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    not local=no trusted contractor=don't do this.

    whats your exit plan? Condos or rentals? What would the units rent for?

    At this level of renovation also assume that you may face upgrading requirements like sprinklers (40K) or what have you to get permits.

    5Reply
  • A.L. DeFalco
    OP
    Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    3y

    Plan would be to hold and rent out, possibly go condo and sell each unit in the future if feasible. If this were inhabitable, I would FHA and house-hack but I can't. I'm in NYC a few hours away by train and not terribly far.

    One of my best friends is a respected contractor in NYC, so I know I could get a bulk of the work at cost or at a good discount. 

    This area is undergoing an extensive beautification/revitalization and correction of infrastructure project so I think it represents a good opportunity. Apartments in the nearby vicinity are renting from $1,100 - $1,500 a month depending on condition. 

    I think if I could get the property for $20k (lol, fat chance) it would be worth it. 

    0Reply
  • A.L. DeFalco
    OP
    Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bob Okenwa:

    @A.L. DeFalco

    Thanks for the update. Being in upstate NY, you're against the clock here. You'll see snow in 3 months and pretty much all exterior work will grind to a halt so you may have to begin there. 

    Based on what I've seen, it snows into April there so you'll be up against mother nature for about 6 months and this looks like it'll be a 4-6 month project.

    If you could get the price super low, it may be a better option to wholesale/wholetail it and move on to something less extensive unless you have the experience, crew, and monetary backing to pull off such a project.


     Interesting. I hadn't thought of wholesaling it. 

    0Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Helpful, still not local...good to have someone you can trust on your side but they wouldn't be working local or have his own subs if he/she did. 

    Lets do some WAG for fun:

    At 1500 for 3 units a month after rehab lets say you wind up with 1500 cash flow, 500 a unit. That might be optimistic after taxes/vacancy/ongoing maintenance but its probably not too far off. No idea of debt service or cash etc but start there Thats 18K a year.

    Without trouble and making it "young professional nice" you would be looking at a minimum of 20K a kitchen and 15K bath so figure 105K right there.

    heating systems at 25K for 3 installed (have to do this if you want to condo later) Windows at $400-700 each (if custom) if older lets say 10K, water heaters 5K installed. 

    Upgrades to wiring, interior paint, floor refinishing or replacement laminate and any value add extras not included. If its knob and tube or there are mold or foundation issues etc thats lots more. 

    So we are at 165K known hard costs. I could be way off but unless you can specifically check where you don't need to spend the money I don't think you will spend less, and I'm thinking more. Your friend can't go broker helping you so even if they are not taking full retail markup they have to get paid and pay their subs. $200K? 250K? Wouldn't surprise me, and I tried to use cheap numbers.

    Is the end game worth it?

    3Reply
  • A.L. DeFalco
    OP
    Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    3y

    Definitely not worth it at that price. But I'm sad, though! :( 

    I guess to be an investor you gotta let the properties that "speak" to you go sometimes. If the numbers don't work, they don't work.

    2Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y

    You just joined BiggerPockets last week, so I'm going to assume you have little/no experience. Why hasn't a local flipper snatched this up?

    Albany is not a high-priced area. Go look at what's currently on the market and you'll find fully livable homes in decent neighborhoods for under $250,000. I think it's safe to assume you're looking at a minimum $100,000 in renovations on this property, which doesn't leave a lot of meat on the bones. It's highly likely you will find surprises along the way that cost more and take longer to deal with. And what if the market turns in six months and you can't sell it for the ARV you anticipated?

    I would pass. Focus on learning how to evaluate properties, then make decisions based on numbers and not emotions.

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    3Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    Pay to have an inspection done with a written report.

    Pay to have a contractor walk the area (and possibly an electrician, and a plumber) and give you an estimate (in writing).

    Pay to have a sewer cam inspection done if the above seems financially viable.

    Look for easement issues, and title issues.

    Consider if fixes will kill off grandfathered building codes and force you to upgrade to current code.

    As has been said above, consider if fire abatement must be installed.

    How is the chimney liner, that should be looked at too, if you have to use the chimney.

    There will also probably be cost and time over runs during  the project due to it's size, and the coordination of trades and inspections needed.

    Now lets talk about the amount of fixup needed. The more that's needed and the less experience you have doing it the more risk you will have of unpredictable cost over runs.

    There are people in here who could buy this and Hammer Swing it into rentable shape themselves--which is lower risk than someone with no experience getting contractors to do it.

    You are asking for prices online, and that is not a very accurate way to get prices.

    What toilets do you want, what fixtures, what doors, doors or preframed doors. Is the front door reusable or is it all chewed up. Is there a basement, does it leak, where will the washer dryer go. Does the electrical have to be brought up to modern code. Is it 110V service on two wires, etc..etc..etc..

    Good Luck!

    1Reply
  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @A.L. DeFalco:

    Hi all,

    I am strongly considering purchasing a particular property as an investment. It is a three-family (3/2, 3/2, 3/1) in an area that is undergoing a major revitalization project and is relatively still affordable. It's in a walkable neighborhood filled with restaurants, bars, and stores. I just don't want to get in over my head and so if people who are more experienced than me can tell just be photos if this is a "no go" right at the outset I would be very appreciative. I am not local, so I would have someone I trust go and inspect the property if people feel it has potential at the right price.

    This is like 80k-140k project. I will buy it if it's located in Bay Area California, but would not touch if it's midwest.
    For this home condition I could buy for 7k-20k in Birmingham or Milwaukee.

    1Reply
  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    I've seen and "inspected" house much worse than this in San Jose,CA. No inspection provided, nothing. Listing for 900k.
    My estimate for rehab is 125-150k. Sold for 1,1mil LOL So Rehab is not problem. ARV is the problem.

    What I really examine very deeply is actually the supply/demand factor in particular block when I made the decision.
    This is something that my contractor can't do but I can do pretty well. If supply is greater than supply then I would run away.
    If inventory is only few homes then I may purchase.

    This is actually the key when doing any flip project.

    1Reply
  • Tayo Black
    New to Real Estate · Northern VA · Member since 2022 · 32 posts · 15 votes
    3y

    @A.L. DeFalco -- I'm purchasing something that looks similar off-market but it's SFH on one side of a double lot in Cumberland, MD. I'm getting it for $23k and plan to eventually put a structure on the second lot. ARV sounds near Albany numbers, so it helps that in the end I'll have two structures instead of just one.

    My seller originally asked for $25k but I got her down to $23k. Never hurts to try to get your purchase price down to around $20k (or less!), especially if you bring the seller data that shows they won't likely sell because of the condition of the property and the sale price (check out the BiggerPockets calculators listed under the Tools tab above -- you can work through that then print a report).

    Good luck!

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    @Jonathan R McLaughlin is pretty close here in my estimation...except maybe even low...? $165k hard costs, plus you will need sewer, complete plumbing and electrical x 3...I think your final reno number is more like $250k+, so you're probably in at $450k or so. 

    If you could for sure sell the 3 units for $250k or more each, then it might be a decent deal...?

    And don't ask or expect your 'best friend' to work at 'cost' or a 'good discount'. That is asking too much in the construction business. Maybe do this on a Cost Plus basis and pay them 18% instead of 25%....? That would be more fair.

    @Scott Mac is right too....PAY a GC (not your best friend) to walk this and identify issues and put a price on them...

    3Reply
  • Mark S.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 543 posts · 474 votes
    3y

    @Bruce Woodruff And take whatever your rehab number is and increase it by 20% because you WILL run over budget.Don’t forget to include holding costs (although those may be minimal in this situation)

    4Reply
  • Marcus Auerbach
    Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    I can only comment what it would cost in Milwaukee. A quick guestimate would be $50 per square foot for the interior. That does not inlcude special projects like sewer lines, driveway or any of the exterior, so you probably pick up another 30-50k there. 

    0Reply
  • Jessie Dillon
    Investor · Hopedale, MA · Member since 2021 · 321 posts · 213 votes
    3y

    hey! first off, what's the ARV? as in, what would it sell for if it was beautifully newly renovated? you might need a realtor to help you get this. i'd try to get #s from a few diff ones, and stress that you want to know what it'd go for if it was all newly renovated.

    then x that number by 70-80%. 70% is safer. 80% is pushing it.

    now, subtract the renovation costs. this looks like a gut to me. here are some $ per square foot that i've seen the pros use for gut renos: $40, $75, $40, $25, $65. bolded numbers are from heavy hitters in the RE world. so let's say $70. $70 x square footage of the house = rehab cost.

    now minus holding costs during reno (tax ins util etc), and closing costs on both ends (front end to buy it, back end to flip or BRRRR).

    once you subtract the rehab cost, holding costs, and whatever closing costs you'll have to pay on the front end (and back end if you'll flip or BRRRR), that's your max allowable purchase price. if you come to a price that's way lower than they're asking, you can explain how you came to your number, sometimes that helps bring them back down to reality. hope this helps!

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    @Jessie Dillon Where can you get a remodel done for $25 SF? That seems impossible. I think $75 SF is as low as you could go and that's doing all the work yourself and using the absolute cheapest of everything....

    Do you actually know someone who did a remodel for $25 SF?

    1Reply
  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    @Jessie Dillon Where can you get a remodel done for $25 SF? That seems impossible. I think $75 SF is as low as you could go and that's doing all the work yourself and using the absolute cheapest of everything....

    Do you actually know someone who did a remodel for $25 SF?


     I am running away from those who guess estimate the rehab using PSF LOL Means they don't understand the intricate and complexity of problems.

    The PSF is only useful when it's actual "sold" neighbor comps for given range depending on block specific and time specific . And even that, PSF is like a "range".

    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    @Jessie Dillon Where can you get a remodel done for $25 SF? That seems impossible. I think $75 SF is as low as you could go and that's doing all the work yourself and using the absolute cheapest of everything....

    Do you actually know someone who did a remodel for $25 SF?


     I am running away from those who guess estimate the rehab using PSF LOL Means they don't understand the intricate and complexity of problems.

    The PSF is only useful when it's actual "sold" neighbor comps for given range depending on block specific and time specific . And even that, PSF is like a "range".


    Exactly. You can remodel a house for $150SF all day long....until you find that cast iron sewer pipe is bad and the ridge is split.....

    2Reply
  • Jessie Dillon
    Investor · Hopedale, MA · Member since 2021 · 321 posts · 213 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    @Jessie Dillon Where can you get a remodel done for $25 SF? That seems impossible. I think $75 SF is as low as you could go and that's doing all the work yourself and using the absolute cheapest of everything....

    Do you actually know someone who did a remodel for $25 SF?

    Just sharing numbers from different industry pros who work all over the country. I see you’re in CA; every well-known investor I’ve heard speak to reno numbers, has said everything is double in CA. Perhaps that’s why you think 25/sqft is crazy, and perhaps the investor who uses that number does do renter grade reno mostly DIY. That’s why I gave a range of numbers. 

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jessie Dillon:

    Heck, I think $50 SF is crazy!! I really don't believe it's possible. I've kept track of the numbers when doing a project by myself (no subs, no employees, just me)...it's still $75 SF....


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