Do You Understand How Ugly This Is Going to Be?

Do You Understand How Ugly This Is Going to Be?

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

There is nothing sane about what you have to be prepared to do in order to make a start in this business. Please take that as a given. The only thing I can fully agree with Grant Cardone about is his statement that real estate investors should, "Forget about 9-5 and start working 95 hours a week."

But the hours are not as bad as WHAT you have to do. I see people whining all the time here about their fears of unclogging toilets at 3 in the morning. People, unclogging a toilet is EASY. Wait until you have to chop a house stack with a demo saw and it dumps a pound of 100-year-old fermented dried filth on you. Wait until the first time you get sick from some mysterious disease because you were prepping a paint job somewhere in some filthy area and some decades-old bacteria were waiting for you to scrape them up. Your first massive vanity clog in a rental where your tenant has been dying her hair in the sink for years.

There are people on this site who have knocked on one side of a door with a dead body on the other side. And it just goes from there. You may think you're going to escape the nasty by investing in a different way, or following a system, or, or, or...

It continues to boggle my mind, year after year, that people get into real estate thinking they're never going to get their hands dirty, usually just because some guru told them it was possible. The price of contractors and handymen keeps going up and up and up, but no, you will always be able to afford to pay people whatever extortionate sum they want to do something that needs to be done today, and of course they will always show up. Sure.

Come on, people. Let's say a guy in one of those annoying bright blue suits with goop in his hair walked into your life and announced that he could offer you a sure-fire opportunity to get into the port-a-potty rental business. Low starting investment, high returns, big money all around. And best of all, if you followed his exclusive franchise system, YOU WOULD NEVER EVER EVER have to smell CRAP in your business. No, not once.

Would you believe him? Would you nod your head enthusiastically along with his fantastic energy and clap? Would you rush to raise the limits on your credit cards to take advantage of this fabulous opportunity? Would you try to rope your friends into it? And yet the gurus manage to tell you you're going to buy real estate, hold real estate, sell real estate, and you are never really going to have to fix real estate, clean real estate, paint real estate, none of that, AND PEOPLE BELIEVE THEM.

I'm asking for contributions here. I know that some of the things you have to do get so nasty that some of us, like me, won't openly talk about the absolute nastiest thing we've ever done in this business. We don't even want to remember it. But can you help out and add an example here of some less-than-pleasant thing you've had to do to get to where you are? And please, nothing about how you managed to cheat someone, steal something from someone, broke the law to your great advantage. You can just save that for Judgment Day.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
3y

Good post @Jim K. Yes, the internet and this forum are filled with well-meaning and ever hopeful wanna-be entrepeneurs. Real Estate is very appealing and has a magic allure all it's own....I mean you're not just buying a widget or even a car, you're buying an actual piece of dirt with your name on it....a primal desire if you will...

So once I was down in an 8 ft hole just before dark...guess why? The plumber never showed up and the Inspection was the next day....I figured what the heck, I can cut this sewer line and slip in a Tee, no big deal. I told my crew to go and tell everyone in the Condo building to not use the plumbing for an hour please.... 😂 

Well it didn't go as easy as I thought and water kept running into the hole, I had to bail while I tried to fit the Tee in between the cuts I had made. Then the people that had been at work and not gotten the notice to not flush showed up..... 😂

I'll never forget one of my guys just standing up there saying "Dude" over and over....

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  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    3y

    @Kenny Smith

    It's the ones that grind you down that are the worst. Sisyphus desperately trying to roll his boulder up the hill, knowing it will roll down on him. There have been days when I have come close to understanding what existential author Albert Camus meant when he wrote:

    "The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

    We have so many messages in out society that tell us to find the easiest way. That there has to be an easier way. "Work smarter, not harder," for instance, is an insidious little motto that really tells us to quit when we're faced with something really difficult. Quit, quit, quit, there HAS to be an easier way.

    Well, what happens when there IS no easier way? When we simply have to summon the will to make the impossible improbable, and then the improbable inevitable? Is it the person who has "work smarter, not harder" insidiously whispering in his ear who gives up last? I don't think so.


  • Member since 2022 · 22 posts · 18 votes
    3y

    This is my first forum contribution as a newish investor.  In my 20's I was a mortgage officer for a year or two.  In my 30's, I was an infantry medic, a flight paramedic, an ER nurse, and now a Trauma Surgery ICU RN at 40. In my current home, I've installed the flooring, done the trim work, painting, drywall repair, demo, tile work including water proofing, and subfloor repairs.  

    It's not the sewer issues, dead bodies, or needles and a**hole felines left behind that scares me.  It's making mistakes from a financial or planning angle and getting stuck or losing money that scares me.  It's being able to fund and find deals that make good financial sense. I'll work hard to learn how to do anything I don't know how to do in order to be my own boss and not have to participate in healthcare for the rest of my life. 

    I'm looking forward to finding the positive aspects of these forums because this is the first one I've read since opening this website, and it's kind of negative. 
     

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ryan David Dodd:

    This is my first forum contribution as a newish investor.  In my 20's I was a mortgage officer for a year or two.  In my 30's, I was an infantry medic, a flight paramedic, an ER nurse, and now a Trauma Surgery ICU RN at 40. In my current home, I've installed the flooring, done the trim work, painting, drywall repair, demo, tile work including water proofing, and subfloor repairs.  

    It's not the sewer issues, dead bodies, or needles and a**hole felines left behind that scares me.  It's making mistakes from a financial or planning angle and getting stuck or losing money that scares me.  It's being able to fund and find deals that make good financial sense. I'll work hard to learn how to do anything I don't know how to do in order to be my own boss and not have to participate in healthcare for the rest of my life. 

    I'm looking forward to finding the positive aspects of these forums because this is the first one I've read since opening this website, and it's kind of negative. 
     


    keep reading go to the success stories.. you will see all sorts of folks having good days.. what this post is about is the untold side of the business where many that follow u tubers or others that are trying to sell things just paint rosy pictures and gloss over much of the seedy side of landlording
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ryan David Dodd:

    This is my first forum contribution as a newish investor.  In my 20's I was a mortgage officer for a year or two.  In my 30's, I was an infantry medic, a flight paramedic, an ER nurse, and now a Trauma Surgery ICU RN at 40. In my current home, I've installed the flooring, done the trim work, painting, drywall repair, demo, tile work including water proofing, and subfloor repairs.  

    It's not the sewer issues, dead bodies, or needles and a**hole felines left behind that scares me.  It's making mistakes from a financial or planning angle and getting stuck or losing money that scares me.  It's being able to fund and find deals that make good financial sense. I'll work hard to learn how to do anything I don't know how to do in order to be my own boss and not have to participate in healthcare for the rest of my life. 

    I'm looking forward to finding the positive aspects of these forums because this is the first one I've read since opening this website, and it's kind of negative. 
     


    There are far more positives than negatives on here. Jim is just trying to point out that there are many pitfalls that many newbies blissfully ignore....

    You will have deals that lose money and that break your heart. But this is a great field to be in and has many pluses....keep reading.....

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jim K.:

    @Kenny Smith

    It's the ones that grind you down that are the worst. Sisyphus desperately trying to roll his boulder up the hill, knowing it will roll down on him. There have been days when I have come close to understanding what existential author Albert Camus meant when he wrote:

    "The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

    We have so many messages in out society that tell us to find the easiest way. That there has to be an easier way. "Work smarter, not harder," for instance, is an insidious little motto that really tells us to quit when we're faced with something really difficult. Quit, quit, quit, there HAS to be an easier way.

    Well, what happens when there IS no easier way? When we simply have to summon the will to make the impossible improbable, and then the improbable inevitable? Is it the person who has "work smarter, not harder" insidiously whispering in his ear who gives up last? I don't think so.



    Look at you Jim, throwing out the Camus here on the Forum.....

    What is next, some ole Jean Paul....?

  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

     The positive won’t kill you. The negative will. If you can’t handle the potential negatives in an area, don’t invest there. 

  • Member since 2022 · 22 posts · 18 votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Clark:

     The positive won’t kill you. The negative will. If you can’t handle the potential negatives in an area, don’t invest there. 


     Fair enough.  One of the many things on my mind is how to identify and avoid geographic areas within a market that are dangerous.  Can you imagine having a rental property that was the center of an active shooter scenario with hundreds of rounds flying through it?! I appreciate your perspective, Sir. 

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ryan David Dodd:
    Quote from @John Clark:

     The positive won’t kill you. The negative will. If you can’t handle the potential negatives in an area, don’t invest there. 


     Fair enough.  One of the many things on my mind is how to identify and avoid geographic areas within a market that are dangerous.  Can you imagine having a rental property that was the center of an active shooter scenario with hundreds of rounds flying through it?! I appreciate your perspective, Sir. 

    Ryan, I am the last person on earth who would try to convince you or anybody else not to invest in real estate. I hope you read my profile and look at my story. I consider myself one of the luckier people on this site. But let me address your issue from my perspective.

    My wife was working two blocks away from L'Simcha, the Tree of Life Synagogue, on Pittsburgh's worst day, October 27, 2018, when a nasty little twitch who doesn't deserve a name walked into the building and started murdering people. The shooting happened in one of best neighborhoods of this city, lovely red brick homes, manicured lawns, mature shade oaks and maples, good neighborhood eateries, a diverse place populated by prosperous, tolerant believers of many, many religions.

    Our police got to the synagogue (this is practically a zero-crime area), strapped on the plates, went in and dragged that piece of leprotic filth out of a place finer than his imagination could ever be. To this day, we all mourn the loss of the eleven worshippers of the synagogue that the scum murdered. It's a scar across our city that can never heal.

    If it can happen in Squirrel Hill North in the City of Pittsburgh, the very clear inspiration for Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, it can happen anywhere in America.

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ryan David Dodd:

    This is my first forum contribution as a newish investor.  In my 20's I was a mortgage officer for a year or two.  In my 30's, I was an infantry medic, a flight paramedic, an ER nurse, and now a Trauma Surgery ICU RN at 40. In my current home, I've installed the flooring, done the trim work, painting, drywall repair, demo, tile work including water proofing, and subfloor repairs.  

    It's not the sewer issues, dead bodies, or needles and a**hole felines left behind that scares me.  It's making mistakes from a financial or planning angle and getting stuck or losing money that scares me.  It's being able to fund and find deals that make good financial sense. I'll work hard to learn how to do anything I don't know how to do in order to be my own boss and not have to participate in healthcare for the rest of my life. 

    I'm looking forward to finding the positive aspects of these forums because this is the first one I've read since opening this website, and it's kind of negative. 
     

    @Ryan David Dodd: Your Comment: “it's kind of negative.”

    Well, there were probably good sides to being an infantry medic too, but I don't read about that here either. They say the army is 99% boredom punctuated by moments of shear terror.

    Listen, real estate investing has its down side and it's other down side and then it has its euphoria.

    But, that's what we signed up for and the mission must go on to success, which means we take a bump or two along the way. Get used to it. It isn’t as exciting as getting shot at, well, some landlords get shot at, but that isn’t my point, the reason they call it “real” estate investing is because it’s “real”. Not just unicorns farting rainbows.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    3y

    @Account Closed

    I think Ryan is making a good point. When I started this, I didn't know it was going to end up as one of the more popular threads in the forums. I just thought it would be five or six experienced operators sharing a few cautionary war stories. Instead, a lot of people with a lot of information have chipped in to really flesh this out.

    The same five or six veterans would be familiar with some of the things we've jeered at in common over the course of the thread, most importantly, the relentless chipper positivity of the gurus and their glossing over of the real challenges of this business.

    My best example of this is a three day seminar I went to a few years ago that was supposed to teach us how to flip houses. On day one, we learned about how to raise our credit card limit so we could afford to put the specialized coaching being relentlessly sold here on our VISA. On day two we learned that we could safely invest our money in managed turnkeys in South Dakota and Nebraska (no, I'm not kidding you). Day 3 was supposed to be the day we learned about flips.

    So, on this auspicious day, the seminar leader called up three people to the stage and made them do an impromptu dance-off. The winner was determined by the most applause. After the winner was appointed, he went to to her and said, "You see? You see what you did? You came up on this stage and won a dance-off in front of all these people. You don't need to worry about a silly old flip! You just have to have confidence in yourself, like you did today. You'll see, a flip is NOTHING!"

    The was the extent of the technical training this seminar provided in how to renovate houses in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

  • Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2023 · 55 posts · 25 votes
    3y

    I appreciate this thread because while new here, I have not read how easy it is to be overwhelmed by life’s circumstances that your gutted building stays that way for years.

    How timing of buying a rental coincides with your baby needing medical care for a very unknown diagnosis that leads you all over the states seeking a cure. 

    I’ve not read how the shame of not being able to care for that baby, and your other immediate family members, AND that empty gutted building, is suffocating, and oftentimes dire. 


    I’ve only read that you get ready to buy, you search to buy, you buy, you fix up, you rent out, you sell or keep. In that order, in that rhythm, with that cadence. 

    My first experience with real estate investing has been only met with delays for years. Postponement of all kinds, not just the life and death ones. The delays that come from bad work needing to be redone. The delays that come from needing to earn the money to repay to do that work. 

    I may be the most unlucky real estate investor here, and yet, I’ve still had to make the mortgage, insurance, and tax payments on a building that has needed to wait until my baby was more living than dying, wait until I caught up with everything else that I had to put aside to tend to that baby. 

  • Member since 2022 · 22 posts · 18 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Ryan David Dodd:

    This is my first forum contribution as a newish investor.  In my 20's I was a mortgage officer for a year or two.  In my 30's, I was an infantry medic, a flight paramedic, an ER nurse, and now a Trauma Surgery ICU RN at 40. In my current home, I've installed the flooring, done the trim work, painting, drywall repair, demo, tile work including water proofing, and subfloor repairs.  

    It's not the sewer issues, dead bodies, or needles and a**hole felines left behind that scares me.  It's making mistakes from a financial or planning angle and getting stuck or losing money that scares me.  It's being able to fund and find deals that make good financial sense. I'll work hard to learn how to do anything I don't know how to do in order to be my own boss and not have to participate in healthcare for the rest of my life. 

    I'm looking forward to finding the positive aspects of these forums because this is the first one I've read since opening this website, and it's kind of negative. 
     

    @Ryan David Dodd: Your Comment: “it's kind of negative.”

    Well, there were probably good sides to being an infantry medic too, but I don't read about that here either. They say the army is 99% boredom punctuated by moments of shear terror.

    Listen, real estate investing has its down side and it's other down side and then it has its euphoria.

    But, that's what we signed up for and the mission must go on to success, which means we take a bump or two along the way. Get used to it. It isn’t as exciting as getting shot at, well, some landlords get shot at, but that isn’t my point, the reason they call it “real” estate investing is because it’s “real”. Not just unicorns farting rainbows.


     Haha, Hi Mike! Thank you for the reply.  I hope I never get shot at as a landlord but I'm prepared for it in multiple ways at all times.  PTSD is real, which is one of the reasons I'm trying to get out of daily bedside critical care. We could talk about the Army all day.  I'll keep reading and learning and keeping my expectations in check.  Thanks again!

  • Member since 2022 · 22 posts · 18 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jim K.:

    @Account Closed

    I think Ryan is making a good point. When I started this, I didn't know it was going to end up as one of the more popular threads in the forums...


    I appreciate the cautionary tales, and now that I think of it, I have a second hand tale from someone I know.  I'll leave out names to protect the innocent. 

    In a partnership, the individual bought a mobile home park with insurance binder pending a few skirts and handrail repairs.  In the meantime, a resident drove over the septic tank causing significant damage.  With no adults present, two drunk/high 16 year olds were left with young children, one of which wandered towards and fell into the septic tank, drowning to death.  Did I mention that there was no insurance yet?  The settlement will be paid out of pocket.  What a nightmare!   

    I suppose this thread has also brought me some pause when thinking about enrolling in the advertised boot camps.  :-/ 

  • Member since 2022 · 22 posts · 18 votes
    3y
    I guess it's not JUST in the nursing business that one could develop the belief that many of the people who ARE reproducing/breeding shouldn't. Can we go back to survival of the fittest?
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    I appreciate this thread because while new here, I have not read how easy it is to be overwhelmed by life’s circumstances that your gutted building stays that way for years.

    How timing of buying a rental coincides with your baby needing medical care for a very unknown diagnosis that leads you all over the states seeking a cure. 

    I’ve not read how the shame of not being able to care for that baby, and your other immediate family members, AND that empty gutted building, is suffocating, and oftentimes dire. 


    I’ve only read that you get ready to buy, you search to buy, you buy, you fix up, you rent out, you sell or keep. In that order, in that rhythm, with that cadence. 

    My first experience with real estate investing has been only met with delays for years. Postponement of all kinds, not just the life and death ones. The delays that come from bad work needing to be redone. The delays that come from needing to earn the money to repay to do that work. 

    I may be the most unlucky real estate investor here, and yet, I’ve still had to make the mortgage, insurance, and tax payments on a building that has needed to wait until my baby was more living than dying, wait until I caught up with everything else that I had to put aside to tend to that baby. 


    No you are not the only REI that has had bad luck, or as I say - life just happened to you..... All we can do is keep moving - hopefully forward, but not always...

  • San Diego · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 11 votes
    3y

    just got this today (info has not yet been verified). This is my second property (oos). Just closed in July. Threw a new roof on, property was otherwise in great shape. Now this. Welcome to the party 😂

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jacob MacIsaac:

    just got this today (info has not yet been verified). This is my second property (oos). Just closed in July. Threw a new roof on, property was otherwise in great shape. Now this. Welcome to the party 😂


    Welcome to the party! I got a call from a tenant once that there had been a shooting in the alley right next to the property.....

  • Developer · Charleston, SC · Member since 2015 · 100 posts · 91 votes
    3y

    Great post. I often say it is simple, but it isn't easy. What you need to do is laid out for you-- but yes it will get very messy. As far as horror stories, I can think of one where a tenant dispute resulted in the unfortunate death of a dog. Just horrible. 

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ryan David Dodd:

     Haha, Hi Mike! Thank you for the reply.  I hope I never get shot at as a landlord but I'm prepared for it in multiple ways at all times.  PTSD is real, which is one of the reasons I'm trying to get out of daily bedside critical care.

    By the way, Ryan, that might not work out how you think, either. I was over at one of my properties once, recaulking old windows. My tenant yelled from inside, and I rushed in to find him distraught, with no phone, bleeding all over the place. The medical port in his arm had fallen out. I had to hold his arm together until the paramedics showed up. I wrote about it here on BP when it happened. So hold on to your bedside manner -- you just might need it in your new position.


  • Real Estate Agent · Burlington MA · Member since 2018 · 113 posts · 142 votes
    3y

    One time a tenant from a second floor apartment sent me a video of a massive leak from her living room ceiling. I was just finishing up a showing across the street so quickly showed up and rang the bell on the third floor (apartment above). I was greeted by a may be 10 year old naked and wet boy. Asked him if his parents were home. He said they are at work and he was in charge. I stated who I was and entered. What I saw was a huge inflatable pool in the middle of the living room with running water coming from a hose connected to the kitchen sink. Al kinds of naked kids, dogs and cats were jumping in and out. On the table in a high chair was may be a year old baby being fed but a five year old.

    In my seven years of investing, I have plenty of stories. But so does any business. I have owned a restaurant and a vending business. I could write a few books about my restaurant experiences.

     Is RE easy - hell NO. Would I replace with any other business - even bigger NO!!!

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Todor Ialamov:

    One time a tenant from a second floor apartment sent me a video of a massive leak from her living room ceiling. I was just finishing up a showing across the street so quickly showed up and rang the bell on the third floor (apartment above). I was greeted by a may be 10 year old naked and wet boy. Asked him if his parents were home. He said they are at work and he was in charge. I stated who I was and entered. What I saw was a huge inflatable pool in the middle of the living room with running water coming from a hose connected to the kitchen sink. Al kinds of naked kids, dogs and cats were jumping in and out. On the table in a high chair was may be a year old baby being fed but a five year old.

    In my seven years of investing, I have plenty of stories. But so does any business. I have owned a restaurant and a vending business. I could write a few books about my restaurant experiences.

     Is RE easy - hell NO. Would I replace with any other business - even bigger NO!!!


     LOL what happened after that ? did you file insurance claim ?

    What's the craziest story about having restaurant and vending machines ?

  • Member since 2023 · 303 posts · 324 votes
    3y

    Good stuff for everyone to hear! Definitely an important thread to read for new investors or for people who may be disillusioned by the process.

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