Do You Understand How Ugly This Is Going to Be?

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

Well, here's a thought, Matt. There are still toilets in operation with tanks that have a much larger water capacity than what's sold today. These toilets date back from before the government started to limit tank sizes as a general conservation method and to force innovation in flushing technology.

Sometimes, those high-flow toilets are still remarkably useful for easily solving problems in plumbing systems with certain chronic plumbing problems.

3 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

@Account Closed

I get it, Anish. Real estate has not your life's only wealth-building tool -- you got into this from a profession that included a high salary. You didn't need to change your stars and jump a socioeconomic class using this business. I've been here for years, as have you, and we've read a lot of each other's posts. I would say you came into this wisely, without taking suicidal risks. I would also say you hardly need help to continue doing what you do and not lose money at it.

So you're absolutely right, I'm trying to talk to that large subset of BP investors that gets scammed in a large sense by hyena grifters trying to make money off them and in a small sense by their own overconfidence and inability to judge the real risks of this business in the level and manner that they're involved in it.

For those investors, working IN their business ends up always being an integral part of learning the business. I really doubt I could do what you do, and I likewise doubt you could do what I do. I would not have access to the skills I need to invest successfully in the ways that I do in the place that I do if I hadn't come up in this business the way that I did.

And that process is still not over, in my judgment. I routinely meet clowns who think they know more about fixing Pittsburgh crapshacks than I do. Usually, they're younger, much fitter clowns than me -- I've lost plenty of steps from my first flips in Greece in 2006. A lot of the work has also changed since I got started. If I didn't keep my hand in, I wouldn't know about a lot of it. Also, after all these years of it, I actually LIKE working on houses.

But to claim that you can start with next to nothing and never get your hands dirty and NEVER GO THOUGH ANYTHING UGLY, yet still have a high chance of success in real estate in a place like Pittsburgh -- I think that's just plain disingenuous. I know you're not doing that, Anish, and I like to think I'm protecting vulnerable people from believing it and soliciting contributions to a thread like this one.

And lastly, as far as the general profitability of knowing which end of the screwdriver to hold, especially when you start with a teaching job that pays under $50K a year -- you're not the only one who's made "6 and 7 figures in real estate."

Why does everyone always think I'm dead broke because I own a garage full of tools?

9 Reply

Dawn P.

Rental Property Investor · Sumter, SC · Member since 2015 · 334 posts · 531 votes

3y

I would rather deal with all the crap this business throws my way than ever work a W-2 again. I've fought with roaches, snakes, ants, fleas, raccoons, and termites. Cleaned up after floods and hurricanes. Found jars of weed, syringes, and a crack pipe. Replaced subfloors that were so soaked in crystallized dog pee it made your eyes water and throat burn from the ammonia. Laughed at my realtor who ran out of a flea and roach infested house I wanted to buy after he refused to go back in.

Two weeks ago I had a tenant complain of a bad smell - apparently the kitchen drain had been leaking into the crawlspace for a while (old cast iron pipe fitting). There was a large pool of what smelled and looked like light brown diarrhea, and my go-to plumber refused to go under there. So I took my shop vac and sucked out 8 buckets of smelly glop in 105 degree heat while trying not to gag. Called a total of 7 plumbers before I found one to fix it - I just physically couldn't get the old fitting off.

None of that makes for cute TikTok videos or pretty Insta photos, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. Like Jim said, I enjoy working on houses and IN my business. I'm making myself rich, not an employer.

7 Reply

David Galpin

Specialist · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote

3y

@Jim K. Really confused about this thread? I’ve read it 3 times now…

Are you basically saying you hate your job? And asking people to tell you they’ve had it worse?

If so… have I got a story for you ;)

1 Reply

Anthony Angotti

Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 846 votes

3y

Quote from @Jim K.:

There is nothing sane about what you have to be prepared to do in order to make a start in this business. Please take that as a given. The only thing I can fully agree with Grant Cardone about is his statement that real estate investors should, "Forget about 9-5 and start working 95 hours a week."

But the hours are not as bad as WHAT you have to do. I see people whining all the time here about their fears of unclogging toilets at 3 in the morning. People, unclogging a toilet is EASY. Wait until you have to chop a house stack with a demo saw and it dumps a pound of 100-year-old fermented dried filth on you. Wait until the first time you get sick from some mysterious disease because you were prepping a paint job somewhere in some filthy area and some decades-old bacteria were waiting for you to scrape them up. Your first massive vanity clog in a rental where your tenant has been dying her hair in the sink for years.

There are people on this site who have knocked on one side of a door with a dead body on the other side. And it just goes from there. You may think you're going to escape the nasty by investing in a different way, or following a system, or, or, or...

It continues to boggle my mind, year after year, that people get into real estate thinking they're never going to get their hands dirty, usually just because some guru told them it was possible. The price of contractors and handymen keeps going up and up and up, but no, you will always be able to afford to pay people whatever extortionate sum they want to do something that needs to be done today, and of course they will always show up. Sure.

Come on, people. Let's say a guy in one of those annoying bright blue suits with goop in his hair walked into your life and announced that he could offer you a sure-fire opportunity to get into the port-a-potty rental business. Low starting investment, high returns, big money all around. And best of all, if you followed his exclusive franchise system, YOU WOULD NEVER EVER EVER have to smell CRAP in your business. No, not once.

Would you believe him? Would you nod your head enthusiastically along with his fantastic energy and clap? Would you rush to raise the limits on your credit cards to take advantage of this fabulous opportunity? Would you try to rope your friends into it? And yet the gurus manage to tell you you're going to buy real estate, hold real estate, sell real estate, and you are never really going to have to fix real estate, clean real estate, paint real estate, none of that, AND PEOPLE BELIEVE THEM.

I'm asking for contributions here. I know that some of the things you have to do get so nasty that some of us, like me, won't openly talk about the absolute nastiest thing we've ever done in this business. We don't even want to remember it. But can you help out and add an example here of some less-than-pleasant thing you've had to do to get to where you are? And please, nothing about how you managed to cheat someone, steal something from someone, broke the law to your great advantage. You can just save that for Judgment Day.

I once bought an apartment building that I should have known had a pest problem, but never saw any.

Turns out there was a roach problem.

I called around to different pest companies but none of them would clean up the dead bugs, only treat. Since there were only reports of roaches and I never actually saw them I figured it was no big deal, but oh it was.

The first treatment was the worst. Every time I moved something in the basement there would be carcasses under the item. Basically in an outline of the thing. I cleaned up maybe 1000-2000 carcasses that day and trashed my clothes.

We had to treat for maybe 6 months to totally eliminate the problem. So that was 6 months of cleaning up roach carcasses.

I’m not desensitized to them, but man that was the stuff of nightmares at first.

Worse almost witnessed thing, was that I went into a building once as an agent. There was a gross oily puddle on the ground and leaking from the ceiling with a bad smell. I just left and reported it to the listing agent. Found out later that there was a dead body above that had literally been decaying so long it had liquified. That explains why they couldn’t get confirmation from the tenant to show the unit, but since then that one is part of my real estate nightmares. So glad I didn’t go in.

6 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

Quote from @David Galpin:

@Jim K. Really confused about this thread? I’ve read it 3 times now…

Are you basically saying you hate your job? And asking people to tell you they’ve had it worse?

If so… have I got a story for you ;)

David, I think a lot of people who are not making a large income and do not have adequate savings are persuaded that they can get into real estate and, if they follow other people's best practices and "do things right," nothing really ugly, filthy, nasty, and disgusting will happen to them.

In my experience, and the experience of many others, this is not true.

I am NOT saying that real estate is not an effective way to change your financial status and climb the economic ladder of American society. It most certainly is. I am not saying I absolutely hate EVERY ASPECT about my own involvement in real estate.

But I've seen real estate investing destroy people and by extension families when it goes wrong. If you do decide to get into this, whoever you are, YOU HAVE TO BE MENTALLY PREPARED. That's the main reason I started this thread.

1 Reply

Scott Mac

Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Jim K.:

... Why does everyone always think I'm dead broke because I own a garage full of tools?

I never have, from what I've seen of your holdings, it looks you you have a very nice portfolio of rentals (like the pigs brick house, not easily blown away in a storm), and a good business plan for yourself (and your family).

Others build on a foundation of wood or straw and some may experience the hard times of this business a little harder--because the hard times always come.

0 Reply

Corey ConklinPro Member

Investor · Member since 2021 · 129 posts · 209 votes

3y

Quote from @Jim K.:

@Account Closed

Why does everyone always think I'm dead broke because I own a garage full of tools?

@Jim K. Right!?! I love my tools and love getting to use tools (and buy new ones) as much as the rest of the business.

Just because I know how to build furniture, fix plumbing, paint, lay floor, etc. doesn't mean I don't know how to underwrite, read P&L statements, manage processes and systems, etc.

4 Reply

Carlos Ptriawan

Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Jim K.:

Quote from @David Galpin:

@Jim K. Really confused about this thread? I’ve read it 3 times now…

Are you basically saying you hate your job? And asking people to tell you they’ve had it worse?

If so… have I got a story for you ;)

David, I think a lot of people who are not making a large income and do not have adequate savings are persuaded that they can get into real estate and, if they follow other people's best practices and "do things right," nothing really ugly, filthy, nasty, and disgusting will happen to them.

In my experience, and the experience of many others, this is not true.

I am NOT saying that real estate is not an effective way to change your financial status and climb the economic ladder of American society. It most certainly is. I am not saying I absolutely hate EVERY ASPECT about my own involvement in real estate.

But I've seen real estate investing destroy people and by extension families when it goes wrong. If you do decide to get into this, whoever you are, YOU HAVE TO BE MENTALLY PREPARED. That's the main reason I started this thread.

hahaha totally , in my experience there're all kind of real estate investors :

1) Very hands on Real Estate Investor
these are like Jim that can do painting, fixing roof ,etc

2) Analytics -- Active Market Real Estate Investor
can do price estimation , market analysis, labour countract, outsourcing , but I have zero experience on how to fix leaking toilet (although I know the theory LOL). These are like me.

3) GP Level Real Estate Investor
I found lot of guys here that can do Due Diligence for office building,self storage, on back of their hands, they speak things like IRR and XIRR and know which sixteen fl office building is appraised correctly. These are the guy that can give you "okay you invest at this such and such debt fund" but please avoid this guy (Grant Cardone type for example)

then we have
4) Passive-Newbie Real Estate Investor
these are like the majority of people in BP, they may have 400k but absolute have no idea where to get bank loan, how fix floor, how to count inflation, and don't understand the difference between LP and GP, they keep saying this syndicator will tell the secret of real estate.

we also have
5) Real Estate Agent investor
these are RE agent that always positive to their area, 80% agent in BP is like this.

2 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Anthony Angotti: