Do You Understand How Ugly This Is Going to Be?

Karl B.

Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

3y

Today I dragged a box with glass shower doors up the stairs alone as I sweat like Charles Barkley. That was cool.

All time unpleasant things:

-Psychotic inherited tenants who scream, swear, call and text.

-Water pouring in because the Amish roofer who just put the new metal roof on is a terrible roofer

-Having to knock holes in the wall so the plumber can repair the broken stack that's oozing you-know-what

-Seeing my property on the morning news due stating one of my tenants was shot and killed

-Having a massive tree smash a duplex

-After evicting a tenant, cleaning food out of a maggot-infested freezer

-Massive water bills due to running toilets

-After move-out fixing all the things tenants damaged - time-consuming and not fun

-Dealing with trespassers (happens a lot in C-class)

That's what first comes to mind. The good news is most landlords fall between inept and mediocre, so when you're decent at the job it stands out.

I have three properties I bought on the same block in late-2021 (8 doors) and I've put every penny of rent (and three loans made to my LLC from me) into the property. The silver lining is once the 4-unit and 3-unit are finished being upgraded that small portfolio will spit out a lot of cash.

I knew the place would be a crap show to get right and it's been worse than I thought, but oh, well. It was a great deal, and since getting into rentals back in 2016 I handle stress a lot better; things don't tend to phase me much anymore as I'm so used to issues appearing.

If you're determined and you're willing to work hard it's not so bad. Like I tell people it beats a 9-5. :-)

5 Reply

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Nhan Phan:

@Scott Mac

I call bs on ur story

I'll bet you money that it's true and he can prove it....

3 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Nhan Phan:

@Scott Mac

I call bs on ur story

I'll bet you money that it's true and he can prove it....

I'll double that bet.

1 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

@Karl B.

A laundry list like that is the first thing I think about when I see the perennial forum topic: "Which is more profitable, investing in the stock market or investing in real estate?"

Ain't nobody who puts their money in mutual funds ever cursed the Amish for a bad roofing job or walked a busted, maggot-infested fridge with no doors down three floors.

3 Reply

Timothy Hero

Lender · United States · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 499 votes

3y

My advise for entrepreneurs in any industry: work smarter, not harder.

Pay someone to handle your dirty work. If the business doesn't net enough to pay someone to handle it, you don't have a profitable enough business.

2 Reply

Jose Vazquez

Member since 2023 · 4 posts · 1 vote

3y

Quote from @Corey Conklin:

@Jim K. This is exactly why I have gotten fed up with real estate podcasts, forums, etc. It's all a bunch of sales guys trying to sell you "financial freedom" by spending $2,000 on their seminar. Or how easy it is to make a million dollars in 90 days starting from scratch. It's ludicrous.

This right here is plainly obvious to me, and i'm a total noob here. "Passive income", "quit your 9-5", "replace your W2". It's all just marketing to sell books, training courses, etc.

What I think is quite interesting is, for example, there were a couple of investors on the main podcast recently talking about their success in building out an 8-figure portfolio, using a seller-financing strategy mainly. Cool, that's great for them... I'm happy they are succeeding in this way. By all accounts they are crushing it. But the most interesting bit to me was right at the very end when social links and "how to get in touch" gets shared around, they were driving people to a site for their training program, to show people how to do what they did/are doing. All for the small sum of 1500 bucks.

That right there is essentially an admission that building a 6-7-8-9-whatever-figure portfolio, and pulling off a nice living from an RE business is a lot of work. I would say that earning a 6-figure personal income in this country is hard work, no matter the industry, self-employed or not. There's no free lunch. 100k/yr (and--critically--maintaining that income!) doesn't come by working 5hr/wk sitting on the beach.

Like I said, it's cool these guys hit on success with their RE strategy, but even after all that, they too are wondering if there is an easier way to make a good living but working less hours, less sweat equity, whatever. The "training"/seminar/books cottage industry that seems to pop up within any industry (I see this in my industry as well) is where the money really is at, because the power of technology is what really starts to drive that gap between what you put in and what you get out.

Like that saying...when there's a gold rush, be the one selling shovels :)

1 Reply

Matthew Masoud

Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2014 · 363 posts · 408 votes

3y

I think you hit on some good points. Real estate investing is MUCH harder than you think it's going to be.

On the other hand, you're missing a BIG part, you're doing real estate as a JOB. You are not investing in real estate.

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing but it is not to be confused with investing in real estate.

I am approaching 50 units and have not unclogged a toilet or painted a unit after the first 3.

After that, I built teams that would take care of these issues. You start off getting your hands dirty and you find ways to get them less and less dirty over time.

Now my only role is coordinating maintenance requests and repairs with my vendors.

You fail to mention the light at the end of the tunnel. If you treat this like a business and not a job you can get to a place where the operations run themselves for the most part, or at least the "nasty" part of the operations as you mentioned.

4 Reply

Sawyer Smith

Specialist · Joplin, MO · Member since 2019 · 79 posts · 58 votes

3y

The first house I ever looked at was in pretty rough shape, with a ton of cats living in the house. After I exited the house and finished talking with the realtor I started to get a bit itchy and found that my pants, shirt, socks, and underwear were crawling with fleas, like thousands of fleas. I got home from my first experience in real estate naked with my clothes in a trash bag. 4 years later things are better but I still will find myself having to get my hands dirty and solve problems here and there.

I think that's the point. My business exists to solve problems, problems of not enough housing for people, problems of degraded buildings that are an eye sore to communities. The trick to sticking with it is not just toughing it out, but finding the satisfaction of solving those problems and blessing those people. Usually, the bigger the problem you solve, the bigger the reward you recieve.

2 Reply

Corey ConklinPro Member

Investor · Member since 2021 · 129 posts · 209 votes

3y

@Jose Vazquez They will never admit to how hard it is to get that portfolio. If they told you that they had to bust the butts and work 80 hour weeks, who would buy their $1500 seminar? They have to sell how easy it is to do. This then gets people to buy their seminar and creates easy money for themselves. Full circle, just like you mentioned.

I like your shovel example. Find a way to actually provide value to people and you will do just fine. Unfortunately people need to understand that to provide value, you need to work!

4 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

@Luka Milicevic

2017 was six years ago. You're well ahead of the game, Luka. GOOD JOB!

My first raccoon experience was a house I bought for $5K and sold for $10K, after blowing at least $8K in holding costs on it. Listen to how stupid I was. The first time I went in there, a cat jumped into a hole in the wall and I was afraid it was stuck in the house, so I went home, got cat food, left some out. Come back three days later, the food was gone, and four fat, slow raccoons that hissed at me when I went near them were hanging out in the house. They crapped ALL OVER THE PLACE.

2 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Matthew Masoud:

I think you hit on some good points. Real estate investing is MUCH harder than you think it's going to be.

On the other hand, you're missing a BIG part, you're doing real estate as a JOB. You are not investing in real estate.

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing but it is not to be confused with investing in real estate.

I am approaching 50 units and have not unclogged a toilet or painted a unit after the first 3.

After that, I built teams that would take care of these issues. You start off getting your hands dirty and you find ways to get them less and less dirty over time.

Now my only role is coordinating maintenance requests and repairs with my vendors.

You fail to mention the light at the end of the tunnel. If you treat this like a business and not a job you can get to a place where the operations run themselves for the most part, or at least the "nasty" part of the operations as you mentioned.

Matthew, you talk about what you know and I'll talk about what I know and if never the twain shall meet, so be it, OK?

1 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Corey Conklin:

@Jose Vazquez They will never admit to how hard it is to get that portfolio. If they told you that they had to bust the butts and work 80 hour weeks, who would buy their $1500 seminar? They have to sell how easy it is to do. This then gets people to buy their seminar and creates easy money for themselves. Full circle, just like you mentioned.

I like your shovel example. Find a way to actually provide value to people and you will do just fine. Unfortunately people need to understand that to provide value, you need to work!

Not in a million years will they tell you about the blood you're gonna sling. It's all work ON your business, not IN your business. But in the end, Corey, if I had to do it all over again, I would. It really does beat living paycheck-to-paycheck.

1 Reply

Corey ConklinPro Member

Investor · Member since 2021 · 129 posts · 209 votes

3y

Quote from @Jim K.:

Quote from @Corey Conklin:

@Jose Vazquez They will never admit to how hard it is to get that portfolio. If they told you that they had to bust the butts and work 80 hour weeks, who would buy their $1500 seminar? They have to sell how easy it is to do. This then gets people to buy their seminar and creates easy money for themselves. Full circle, just like you mentioned.

I like your shovel example. Find a way to actually provide value to people and you will do just fine. Unfortunately people need to understand that to provide value, you need to work!

Not in a million years will they tell you about the blood you're gonna sling. It's all work ON your business, not IN your business. But in the end, Corey, if I had to do it all over again, I would. It really does beat living paycheck-to-paycheck.

@Jim K. Not only would I do it all over again I would have started sooner! Unfortunately I'm still in the grind of a 9-5, acquiring/managing real estate, and being a family man. It is a lot to juggle but it's definitely worth it.

There is no better feeling than working your tail off and seeing the results of your hard work especially when you reap all of the reward and not some company CEO.

4 Reply

Evan B.

Member since 2021 · 31 posts · 23 votes

3y

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Good post @Jim K. Yes, the internet and this forum are filled with well-meaning and ever hopeful wanna-be entrepeneurs. Real Estate is very appealing and has a magic allure all it's own....I mean you're not just buying a widget or even a car, you're buying an actual piece of dirt with your name on it....a primal desire if you will...

So once I was down in an 8 ft hole just before dark...guess why? The plumber never showed up and the Inspection was the next day....I figured what the heck, I can cut this sewer line and slip in a Tee, no big deal. I told my crew to go and tell everyone in the Condo building to not use the plumbing for an hour please.... 😂

Well it didn't go as easy as I thought and water kept running into the hole, I had to bail while I tried to fit the Tee in between the cuts I had made. Then the people that had been at work and not gotten the notice to not flush showed up..... 😂

I'll never forget one of my guys just standing up there saying "Dude" over and over....

I bet those people didnt know they would get to hear the invention of new curse words by simply flushing their toilet that day

1 Reply

Rich S.

Central, MN · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 184 votes

3y

There is definitely some "old school" vs. "new school" vibe in this thread. I think the original point of the thread is that Jim K was trying to get at is that it isn't always glamourous and it sure as heck won't be easy. The way TV and social media portrays everything these days sure makes it look simple and without bumps. There are a million ways to play this game, but the reality is, you need lots of "input" to produce lots of "output" and depending on how you play it, determines what the trying times will look like. Jim K. might be fighting racoons, while the person who outsources everything is calling their 10th plumber because they can't get one to come out while their tenant is without a working bathroom. No matter how you decide to play the game, one thing is for certain, if you don't like struggles, it will be tough to win.

8 Reply

Mike ReynoldsPro Member

construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

3y

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jim K.:

There is nothing sane about what you have to be prepared to do in order to make a start in this business. Please take that as a given. The only thing I can fully agree with Grant Cardone about is his statement that real estate investors should, "Forget about 9-5 and start working 95 hours a week."

But the hours are not as bad as WHAT you have to do. I see people whining all the time here about their fears of unclogging toilets at 3 in the morning. People, unclogging a toilet is EASY. Wait until you have to chop a house stack with a demo saw and it dumps a pound of 100-year-old fermented dried filth on you. Wait until the first time you get sick from some mysterious disease because you were prepping a paint job somewhere in some filthy area and some decades-old bacteria were waiting for you to scrape them up. Your first massive vanity clog in a rental where your tenant has been dying her hair in the sink for years.

There are people on this site who have knocked on one side of a door with a dead body on the other side. And it just goes from there. You may think you're going to escape the nasty by investing in a different way, or following a system, or, or, or...

It continues to boggle my mind, year after year, that people get into real estate thinking they're never going to get their hands dirty, usually just because some guru told them it was possible. The price of contractors and handymen keeps going up and up and up, but no, you will always be able to afford to pay people whatever extortionate sum they want to do something that needs to be done today, and of course they will always show up. Sure.

Come on, people. Let's say a guy in one of those annoying bright blue suits with goop in his hair walked into your life and announced that he could offer you a sure-fire opportunity to get into the port-a-potty rental business. Low starting investment, high returns, big money all around. And best of all, if you followed his exclusive franchise system, YOU WOULD NEVER EVER EVER have to smell CRAP in your business. No, not once.

Would you believe him? Would you nod your head enthusiastically along with his fantastic energy and clap? Would you rush to raise the limits on your credit cards to take advantage of this fabulous opportunity? Would you try to rope your friends into it? And yet the gurus manage to tell you you're going to buy real estate, hold real estate, sell real estate, and you are never really going to have to fix real estate, clean real estate, paint real estate, none of that, AND PEOPLE BELIEVE THEM.

I'm asking for contributions here. I know that some of the things you have to do get so nasty that some of us, like me, won't openly talk about the absolute nastiest thing we've ever done in this business. We don't even want to remember it. But can you help out and add an example here of some less-than-pleasant thing you've had to do to get to where you are? And please, nothing about how you managed to cheat someone, steal something from someone, broke the law to your great advantage. You can just save that for Judgment Day.

Wasn't the worst thing in the world, but I'll tell ya, you never forget finding your 1st used dildo.

I was doing a house inspection and heard a noise. I thought maybe the AC fan was going on the Fritz.

Then it hit me.

Or my foot at least after vibrating out from under the couch.

instead of being grossed out, I was glad the AC was still working fine.

3 Reply

Nathan Harden

Real Estate Agent · Puyallup, WA · Member since 2022 · 551 posts · 379 votes

3y

Great Post!

No "guru" will tell you this side of the business. Not always sunshine and rainbows.

Stories?

Lets see, I bought a house pretty much sight unseen after my realtor ASSURED me that she just walked through the house days prior to me making an offer. Told me rehab was between 15-20k. Lets just say that initial quote wasn't even close to the actual rehab cost. I believed her (stupid mistake, hard lesson learned). The day after closing I got a phone call from the City letting me know that the property I just bought hasn't had running water in over 2 years. My reaction?? "What? There has been a tenant in there for 5 years?"

Turns out that tenant had the water turned off, was using 5 gallon buckets for a toilet then draining them down the actual toilet where she then had the pipes in the basement disconnected so the turds that she dumped down the toilet, fell straight into the basement.

Lessons learned, scars earned.

3 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

@Mike Reynolds

That's when you know you've made it in real estate. When a strange dildo smacks you in the foot and all you feel is relief.

My first dildo was just sitting under the sheets next to a half-eaten, maggot-infested pizza in a pizza box, with a slick female condom stretched over it.

Renter romance, isn't it wonderful?

1 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Nathan Harden:

Great Post!

No "guru" will tell you this side of the business. Not always sunshine and rainbows.

Stories?

Lets see, I bought a house pretty much sight unseen after my realtor ASSURED me that she just walked through the house days prior to me making an offer. Told me rehab was between 15-20k. I believed her (stupid mistake, hard lesson learned). The day after closing I got a phone call from the City letting me know that the property I just bought hasn't had running water in over 2 years. My reaction?? "What? There has been a tenant in there for 5 years?"

Turns out that tenant had the water turned off, was using 5 gallon buckets for a toilet then draining them down the actual toilet where she then had the pipes in the basement disconnected so the turds that she dumped down the toilet, fell straight into the basement.

Lessons learned, scars earned.

CLASSY, Nathan! Did you have the basement fecal removal team ready to go for that one?

2 Reply

Nathan Harden

Real Estate Agent · Puyallup, WA · Member since 2022 · 551 posts · 379 votes

3y

Quote from @Jim K.:

Quote from @Nathan Harden:

Great Post!

No "guru" will tell you this side of the business. Not always sunshine and rainbows.

Stories?

Lets see, I bought a house pretty much sight unseen after my realtor ASSURED me that she just walked through the house days prior to me making an offer. Told me rehab was between 15-20k. I believed her (stupid mistake, hard lesson learned). The day after closing I got a phone call from the City letting me know that the property I just bought hasn't had running water in over 2 years. My reaction?? "What? There has been a tenant in there for 5 years?"

Turns out that tenant had the water turned off, was using 5 gallon buckets for a toilet then draining them down the actual toilet where she then had the pipes in the basement disconnected so the turds that she dumped down the toilet, fell straight into the basement.

Lessons learned, scars earned.

CLASSY, Nathan! Did you have the basement fecal removal team ready to go for that one?

I had the entire removal team on deck, including the eviction notice in place. Here's the lovely part, we won our eviction case on December 22nd but the court decided that it was "too cold" outside so they let her stay in my rental until February 16th. Did I mention that she had a child living with her as well? Crazy stuff.

0 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

@Nathan Harden

Isn't it wonderful how judges like to make us foot our deadbeat tenants' holidays housing and heating bills? So you lost almost two month's rent? Were you at least able to fix the open sewage issue in the basement while the nasty little turd-mistress was still squatting in your house?

And, if I'm reading this right, the judge thought it best that the child should stay with this lunatic excuse for a fit mother?

0 Reply

Jim K.

OP

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Timothy Hero:

My advise for entrepreneurs in any industry: work smarter, not harder.

Pay someone to handle your dirty work. If the business doesn't net enough to pay someone to handle it, you don't have a profitable enough business.

My daddy loved and lived that phrase: "Work smarter, not harder." Nope, no one ever accused my daddy of working his tail off.

I ended up paying for my daddy's funeral.

1 Reply

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

3y

Bought a duplex ( rare in my area ) It was the normal gut rehab with junk in the house animals in the attic . Still using a hand dug well ( I used it for 5 years before it went dry . 15K for a new well )

The ysrd was completely over grown with old car parts everywhere . I made about a grand on scrap metal . BUT it was a 1/2 acre of inch and a half diamater bamboo . That took 4 years to kill off in my spare time .

3 Reply

Matt Greer

Real Estate Agent · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2017 · 237 posts · 170 votes

3y

My firm had been hired to sell someone's flip project. I wasn't the agent with the listing but I had clients that were interested. I took them to tour the property and someone had broken in and stole a toilet. Just a toilet. There was so much in that house that was of more value, but they stole the toilet. It wasn't that bad as far as being gross goes other than the hole in the ground leading to the sewer, but it still takes the cake for weirdest thing stolen from a house.

1 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes

3y

I think your post talks to a large subset of wannabe investors who dont have any real capital to invest but want to get in the game as taught by scammy seminars and uneducated Tik Tok videos. Many in my circle (including me) hardly know what end of the screwdriver you hold and yet have invested and made 6 and 7 figures in real estate. So there is another class of investor, those with cash, access to credit and ability to pay others to do their dirty work. Now that's not to say owning rentals is passive. There is still a lot of work to do, but the smart and successful ones set up the right systems and people and are willing to accept the price to pay others to do tasks they dislike. As it says in the E-Myth: "Work on your business not in it".

1 Reply

Do You Understand How Ugly This Is Going to Be?

Do You Understand How Ugly This Is Going to Be?

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