How to Do a Fix-n-Flip with No Cash Out

How to Do a Fix-n-Flip with No Cash Out

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Hi BP Nation. It's been a while since I've posted something here. 

I know a lot of you wants to flip houses given the popularity of fix-n-flip shows. SO for those of you beginners who don't have much cash and you want to flip a house, here's a 3-step process on how you can do your first fix-n-flip with no cash out of your pocket:

Step 1: Raise Your Downpayment Using a BUSINESS LINE OF CREDIT

Hard money lenders require that you have "skin in the game" or downpayment. Usually, HMLs lends you up to 80% of the purchase price and up to 100% of the renovation cost. You also need to pay points (2-4) and the cost of money (holding cost of 6-12 months). A typical $200,000 project will require about $60,000 cash out of your pocket.

If you have great credit (720 and above), you may be able to qualify for a BUSINESS LINE OF CREDIT. This business line is UNSECURED so you can use it as downpayment money or you can use it for repairs, or whatever you need it for. 

I've seen beginning real estate investors get $40,000, $60,000 even $100,000 in business line of credit. 

There are 2 forms of BLOC - business credit cards and a checkbook line of credit. If you have another business in a legal entity (LLC or corp) that has been in existence for 2 or more years, you may qualify for a checkbook line. Business credit cards are available even for brand new LLCs provided your credit is 720 or higher. You can then convert these business credit cards into cash.

The thing is, you need to get the cash "seasoned" in a bank account for 2-3 months so when your hard money lender sees the cash, that cash will qualify as part of your downpayment or part of your liquid assets.

You can search Biggerpockets for legitimate business line of credit providers or you can ask other BP members who have gotten unsecured BLOCs. BEWARE of BLOC providers who ask for money upfront! The legitimate BLOCs work based on a success fee. If they are successful in lining up BLOCs for you, that's the time you pay. The payment is usually between 8-15% of the BLOC amount they are able to get for you.

Step 2: Line up a Good Deal 

A good deal is where it all starts. So learn what a good deal looks like. Use a spreadsheet like below so you can analyze your leads and decide which lead is worth making an offer on. How do you find good deals? Search my posts here on BP entitled "The Science of Finding Deals" so you can have multiple sources for finding good deals.

Step 3: Line up a Good Hard Money Lender That Works With Newbies or Partner with More Experienced Investors On Your First Deal

Usually HMLs give loans to experienced real estate investors. There are some HMLs who lend to newbies but they charge 16% interest rate and 4-5 points. The thing is - ONCE YOU'VE DONE YOUR FIRST DEAL, the interest rate they charge goes down to 11-13%. So, you can choose to BITE the bullet and pay the HML a higher cost of money or you can partner up with a more experienced investor on your first deal. You can use the fact that you have some cash (which you got from Step 1 above) as your contribution to the partnership. The more experienced investor might have the deal for you and together, you both can qualify for the hard money loan.

Once you sell the property and cash out, you can pay your unsecured business line of credit so you can use that again to buy your next deal and so on.

By properly leveraging 2 different types of loans (unsecured business line of credit and hard money loan), together with finding a great fix-n-flip deal, you can get started rehabbing a house with NO CASH COMING OUT OF YOUR POCKET!

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Anthony SuscoPro Member
Lender · Turnersville, NJ · Member since 2016 · 173 posts · 68 votes
9y

@Wendell De Guzman great post!!  This is awesome information and one of the reasons BP is such a valuable community.  Well done.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Anthony SuscoPro Member
    Lender · Turnersville, NJ · Member since 2016 · 173 posts · 68 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman great post!!  This is awesome information and one of the reasons BP is such a valuable community.  Well done.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Hawthorne, CA · Member since 2015 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman I 2nd this post it is what awesome about BP and its members especially you thanks..... 

  • Chesapeake, VA · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 1 vote
    9y

    From newbie!!! thank you very much awesome post!!!

  • Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Thank you very much! I am new to all of this, and this is exactly what I needed to hear. 

  • Gainesville, FL · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman Newbie here. Thank you so much for making this post, it was extremely helpful.

  • Real Estate Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman What if in stead of selling the property, my exit strategy was to refinance.  My numbers are pretty similar to to those on the spreadsheet but its a 20 unit apartment building that I would like to keep.  

    My question is: At what point should I organize the refinance with a lender.  Should it be done before I start to get some sense of how the property will be evaluated. My concern is that I will do the rehab but misjudge my valuation or flat out not have refinancing available.  I would like to be fairly certain that my refinancing strategy will follow through.  

    I look forward to anybody's response

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Susco:

    @Wendell De Guzman great post!!  This is awesome information and one of the reasons BP is such a valuable community.  Well done.

     You're very welcome Anthony. Have you done a rehab or do you want to do a rehab?

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Choyce:

    @Wendell De Guzman I 2nd this post it is what awesome about BP and its members especially you thanks..... 

     Jonathan,

    You're very welcome. BP is truly awesome. And what I've found is that it always "pay" to give value to this awesome community. @Brandon Turner, if you need a testimonial on why BP members should provide value - I just wrote one :-)

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Nice blog in the forums.

    Issue with "season" the money for 2 or 3 months, this carries a really strong implication that you park the money to show up in your bank statements and then tell the lender on the application that your down payment isn't borrowed money!

    What most of the tricksters don't know is that after funding, loans are audited, your account is open for audit further back, like 6 or 12 months, this is where the lump sum is found. It also matches on future credit reports of charge cards, credit lines and loans. 

    Bam!, you're caught in mortgage fraud. 

    If you get that money from family and there is no expectation of repayment, it's not borrowed funds. If there is a repayment required it is borrowed money, giving false information to a lender is just fraud folks. 

    Now, there are some lenders that don't care if it was borrowed funds, they don't care whose skin is in it, it just isn't their skin. This is especially true when you have the ability to repay without using the subject property, example, it could be borrowed from your CDs 

    Another aspect is if borrowed funds scheduled to be paid back within 6 months or less with ratios qualifying, you won't have to lie about it. 

    And, not really touched on, borrower's reserves, where do my payments come from if things go south for 3 or 6 months? 

    An easier way to fix and flip, is to partner with the owner, use a TIC Agreement, make the repairs, sell, hand the owner their slice and you keep your profits......much easier. :)

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

    Nice blog in the forums.

    Issue with "season" the money for 2 or 3 months, this carries a really strong implication that you park the money to show up in your bank statements and then tell the lender on the application that your down payment isn't borrowed money!

    What most of the tricksters don't know is that after funding, loans are audited, your account is open for audit further back, like 6 or 12 months, this is where the lump sum is found. It also matches on future credit reports of charge cards, credit lines and loans. 

    Bam!, you're caught in mortgage fraud. 

    If you get that money from family and there is no expectation of repayment, it's not borrowed funds. If there is a repayment required it is borrowed money, giving false information to a lender is just fraud folks. 

    Now, there are some lenders that don't care if it was borrowed funds, they don't care whose skin is in it, it just isn't their skin. This is especially true when you have the ability to repay without using the subject property, example, it could be borrowed from your CDs 

    Another aspect is if borrowed funds scheduled to be paid back within 6 months or less with ratios qualifying, you won't have to lie about it. 

    And, not really touched on, borrower's reserves, where do my payments come from if things go south for 3 or 6 months? 

    An easier way to fix and flip, is to partner with the owner, use a TIC Agreement, make the repairs, sell, hand the owner their slice and you keep your profits......much easier. :)

     It's not mortgage fraud if the hard money lender knows where the money came from and everything is disclosed. I am not advocating not telling the truth.

    For example, we disclose to our HMLs that part of the money is coming from a different partner who is not on the loan and we show them JV Agreeement and they are OK with this.

    I already mentioned partnering up on Step 3 as another option. Problem with that having a partner (say who gets paid 50% of the profits) will usually cost more than 12% hard money + 4 points. Of course, that is not always the case - it depends on the deal.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Tristan Black:

    @Wendell De Guzman What if in stead of selling the property, my exit strategy was to refinance.  My numbers are pretty similar to to those on the spreadsheet but its a 20 unit apartment building that I would like to keep.  

    My question is: At what point should I organize the refinance with a lender.  Should it be done before I start to get some sense of how the property will be evaluated. My concern is that I will do the rehab but misjudge my valuation or flat out not have refinancing available.  I would like to be fairly certain that my refinancing strategy will follow through.  

    I look forward to anybody's response

     If you're a Canadian citizen getting a mortgage might be a problem. If that's not the case, please let me know as you know something I don't.

    To answer your question, you have to do some aspects of it upfront - i.e., before you even buy the deal. That's what we do in every deal that we look at. We consider the numbers after we buy-then -refi the deal (obviously not for flips but for properties we keep). You need to line up the right lender upfront so that when you refi, you know exactly the documentation they need and more importantly, you know their underwriting guidelines.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Nice!  I have seen some creative financing with zero interest credit cards.

     Right ON! I know a newbie who used $100,000 Business Line of credit to get started rehabbing houses. Smart.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Bryan Marin:

    @Wendell De Guzman Newbie here. Thank you so much for making this post, it was extremely helpful.

     Bryan, @Andra Barnett and @Jolee Lewis, you are all welcome. What help do you need in your market? Is it finding deals or finding FUNDING?

  • Gainesville, FL · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman Thanks for asking! It's definitely finding funding. It's a little hard to ask for money when you're willing to put in the work and time but don't have a track record to show it.

  • Lender · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 133 posts · 14 votes
    9y
    Send The BLOC Lenders my way plz!! Thanks
  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Send The BLOC Lenders my way plz!! Thanks

     Yes - it's on its way.

  • Real Estate Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman I'm JVing with someone in the market.  Thanks for your response

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 3 votes
    9y
    Hi, I'm interested in BLOC as well, can you send it to me as well? Thanks Wendell.
  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Bryan Marin:

    @Wendell De Guzman Thanks for asking! It's definitely finding funding. It's a little hard to ask for money when you're willing to put in the work and time but don't have a track record to show it.

    Bryan,

    I just wrote a post here on BP to help you build a track record without the need to raise cash so that once you have that track record, it's easier to raise the cash. Here it is:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/378860-how-to-raise-money-even-if-youre-a-newbie-investor

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Lizette Perez:

    Hi, I'm interested in BLOC as well, can you send it to me as well? Thanks Wendell.

     Sure. It's on its way :-)

  • Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 20 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman I'd also be very interested in getting the name of that BLOC lender. One more resource in my toolbox, right? Thanks for taking so much of your time to help out newbies on BP. I'm a contractor in SLC that is trying to stockpile funds/reserves for the next year. We used to live in Washington and flipped several homes there before the market crashed. I've been out of the game since then. We got burned pretty bad with a partner and so I'd love to keep learning about ways that my wife and I can get back in the game without depending on a partner (although I do see the benefits of having a good one). It has been a slower road like one of the above post mentions, but this time around I'd rather be more conservative. We paid off all our debt and have been living cheap (even with 6 kids) while building reserves. I own and operate two businesses which takes up a lot of my time, but my goal is to end up with a lot of rentals (most likely via BRRRR if I can figure that out in Utah) so I can have more time with my family. If I could find a way to find and fund some more flips to start, that would be great, although from everything I'm finding, it's really hard to get more than a marginal deal in my area right now . Again, thanks for sharing so much knowledge. I love your posts.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Ira Ashton:

    @Wendell De Guzman I'd also be very interested in getting the name of that BLOC lender. One more resource in my toolbox, right? Thanks for taking so much of your time to help out newbies on BP. I'm a contractor in SLC that is trying to stockpile funds/reserves for the next year. We used to live in Washington and flipped several homes there before the market crashed. I've been out of the game since then. We got burned pretty bad with a partner and so I'd love to keep learning about ways that my wife and I can get back in the game without depending on a partner (although I do see the benefits of having a good one). It has been a slower road like one of the above post mentions, but this time around I'd rather be more conservative. We paid off all our debt and have been living cheap (even with 6 kids) while building reserves. I own and operate two businesses which takes up a lot of my time, but my goal is to end up with a lot of rentals (most likely via BRRRR if I can figure that out in Utah) so I can have more time with my family. If I could find a way to find and fund some more flips to start, that would be great, although from everything I'm finding, it's really hard to get more than a marginal deal in my area right now . Again, thanks for sharing so much knowledge. I love your posts.

     Ira, your @ function didn't work that's why I saw this only now. Please send me a PM and I will send you the BLOC lender contact. 

    BRRRR sounds like an awesome strategy. I love a slight twist to that which I call BuRLOR (harder to pronounce - LOL). It stands for

    Buy

    Rehab

    Lease Option

    Refinance

    and of course Repeat

    Why is it better for someone like you who is already busy running 2 businesses? Here's my BP post on lease options:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/373...

  • Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 20 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman  I hope you see the tag this time, sorry.  I actually already read your post.  It does make a lot of sense &  had a lot of great information.  However, until I can figure out how to navigate myself in this market, I feel like I should stick to what I know, which is mainly construction. One of my two businesses is construction and the other is landscaping. Flipping would allow me to make money on both ends of a flip b/c it would also be my day job (well, depending on how we structure the deal, of course). I have recently found another partner who has a lot of cash as well as construction experience & we are discussing strategies now.   I've honestly been very interested in lease options, but I just don't feel like I understand it well enough to start out with that. But, it's definitely something I'm considering (especially since it would be more passive income). Hopefully I can meet  investors who are doing some more creative strategies locally so I can get a grasp of how to implement them down the road. There's so much to learn!   Thanks for all the great info! 

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