Advice - I think I just killed my mentor..

Advice - I think I just killed my mentor..

Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 50 votes

Hey BPers 

Let me start by saying, I didn't actually kill him, just possibly killed my mentorship.

I'm looking for some advice and guidance in regards to my mentor/ PM.

I got interested in a market that a few family members and co-workers have property in. I have spent a considerable amount of time learning the market and settled on an area that I felt was a good. We purchased a basic, clean, solid property and secured a PM that came recommended by a large RE company. 

I hit it off pretty quickly with the PM. Jobs in common, similar beliefs in preventative property maintenance, etc. We decided to have him do a few basic upgrades. Carpet, paint, switch plates, blinds, etc. The communication was pretty good. Face time while choosing paint colors, carpet, progress. It was all dreamy. I told him that we were looking for off-market deals. He told me that he was also an investor with a few local properties and had a close friend/mentor that also had approx 100 local properties. 

Everything was good until he told me he had found a property in a "great neighborhood" that he had been watching. I felt his easy going attitude change to more of a high pressure approach and that I needed to buy this deal! He also said his friend/ mentor had 25-30 properties in the neighborhood.

He had seen someone move out of it several weeks earlier and then the FOR RENT sign went up in the yard. He called the owner, he told him it was renting at $900/mo. He immediately offered $85k, the owner was interested, but countered a couple days later at $91k. I was told that he would buy it if I didn't. I told him we were interested, but we hadn't been able to get inside yet. He didn't think we needed to really to see the inside and that the estimate of $10-12k in repairs was all I needed to know and should move forward with the purchase. He thought we could get $1100/mo. (A leasing agent I contacted said it would go for about $850/mo) The comps showed a sale in the last 6 months of a like property selling at $109k. He said ARV would be $120k..

My agent scheduled a showing and the inside indeed needed updating, but it also showed a 30 yr old furnace, 10-15 yr old water heater and A/C, indication of roof leaks, tile work needed, etc. After he and my agent walked through he called me. Naturally I had questions and he immediately said "I sense you're getting cold feet", made a couple comments about my agent not being progressive and aggressive enough and that the leasing agent is wrong on the rental price. I felt the repair costs could be an additional $10-15k outside his estimate. I decided against the purchase. He immediately stated that he was going to purchase it, but he normally only gave $50kish for these types of properties. I was confused.. Further he said that he would continue to manage our properties, but he would not be looking for or bringing us any more "deals" and made a few more comments about the problem of "new investors"..

I guess I just ended the conversation with a big question mark. Did I offend him because I didn't trust his advice on this ONE property? Did I paint him into a corner with his offer to the owner and now he's committed to buy it? Was he hoping to make money on the repairs that we were likely to have him complete? Will this damage the relationship we have in regards to our other property? 

I really like this guy. He's funny and has what appears to be a solid, common sense approach to PM. I just wasn't comfortable with this ONE recommendation. 

We're still looking for at least two more properties. So, I guess now I'm on the hunt for another mentor in the KC area. 

I'd really appreciate you feedback!

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Investor · Ridgecrest, CA · Member since 2017 · 246 posts · 120 votes
8y

It sounds like he was looking for a sucker. You dont need this kind of mentor.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Ridgecrest, CA · Member since 2017 · 246 posts · 120 votes
    8y

    It sounds like he was looking for a sucker. You dont need this kind of mentor.

  • Wholesaler · Fairfield, CA · Member since 2017 · 472 posts · 145 votes
    8y

    What @Tom R. said is what I started thinking while reading this as well. Regardless, even if he wasn't doing that you made the right decision by not investing in something you didn't think added up. If he comes around again I would be skeptical about his recommendations as he may be trying to sucker you.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Robert DeForge:

    Hey BPers 

    Let me start by saying, I didn't actually kill him, just possibly killed my mentorship.

    I'm looking for some advice and guidance in regards to my mentor/ PM.

    I got interested in a market that a few family members and co-workers have property in. I have spent a considerable amount of time learning the market and settled on an area that I felt was a good. We purchased a basic, clean, solid property and secured a PM that came recommended by a large RE company. 

    I hit it off pretty quickly with the PM. Jobs in common, similar beliefs in preventative property maintenance, etc. We decided to have him do a few basic upgrades. Carpet, paint, switch plates, blinds, etc. The communication was pretty good. Face time while choosing paint colors, carpet, progress. It was all dreamy. I told him that we were looking for off-market deals. He told me that he was also an investor with a few local properties and had a close friend/mentor that also had approx 100 local properties. 

    Everything was good until he told me he had found a property in a "great neighborhood" that he had been watching. I felt his easy going attitude change to more of a high pressure approach and that I needed to buy this deal! He also said his friend/ mentor had 25-30 properties in the neighborhood.

    He had seen someone move out of it several weeks earlier and then the FOR RENT sign went up in the yard. He called the owner, he told him it was renting at $900/mo. He immediately offered $85k, the owner was interested, but countered a couple days later at $91k. I was told that he would buy it if I didn't. I told him we were interested, but we hadn't been able to get inside yet. He didn't think we needed to really to see the inside and that the estimate of $10-12k in repairs was all I needed to know and should move forward with the purchase. He thought we could get $1100/mo. (A leasing agent I contacted said it would go for about $850/mo) The comps showed a sale in the last 6 months of a like property selling at $109k. He said ARV would be $120k..

    My agent scheduled a showing and the inside indeed needed updating, but it also showed a 30 yr old furnace, 10-15 yr old water heater and A/C, indication of roof leaks, tile work needed, etc. After he and my agent walked through he called me. Naturally I had questions and he immediately said "I sense you're getting cold feet", made a couple comments about my agent not being progressive and aggressive enough and that the leasing agent is wrong on the rental price. I felt the repair costs could be an additional $10-15k outside his estimate. I decided against the purchase. He immediately stated that he was going to purchase it, but he normally only gave $50kish for these types of properties. I was confused.. Further he said that he would continue to manage our properties, but he would not be looking for or bringing us any more "deals" and made a few more comments about the problem of "new investors"..

    I guess I just ended the conversation with a big question mark. Did I offend him because I didn't trust his advice on this ONE property? Did I paint him into a corner with his offer to the owner and now he's committed to buy it? Was he hoping to make money on the repairs that we were likely to have him complete? Will this damage the relationship we have in regards to our other property? 

    I really like this guy. He's funny and has what appears to be a solid, common sense approach to PM. I just wasn't comfortable with this ONE recommendation. 

    We're still looking for at least two more properties. So, I guess now I'm on the hunt for another mentor in the KC area. 

    I'd really appreciate you feedback!

     People hear the term "off market" & think they are getting a good deal because it's "off market" If it's "off market" & being offered to you any other way than you tracked that seller down yourself your probably not getting any special price. In fact you are probably overpaying as the seller wasn't even motivated enough to put it "on market."

    Also I don't see why you have an agent, a leasing agent & this PM who also looks for properties for you. Why don't you just hire a large company that handles all of that under one roof? If you have some random guy willing to face time you while he's in the store buying paint for you he's not a sophisticated business person. You can't contact a large above board company & get them to do that for you. No successful investor is doing something like that unless they are trying to get some HUGE payday out of you.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 221 votes
    8y
    Is he your mentor or is he your PM? IMO, your PM are paid to work for you. Your mentor on the other hand is a successful investor that is giving back or partnering with you.
  • Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 653 posts · 769 votes
    8y

    Sounds like you should be getting your mentorship from the guy with the 100 local properties instead of this guy. Assuming he actually exists...

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 8 votes
    8y

    if it really was a good deal then why would he need to pressure you into buying it?  You did the right thing by running your own number and decided to not buy it base on other people's number.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    No worries, the headlines are that you turned down a property that did not meet your criteria and you ruled out an unproductive source of deal flow.  You will find another bromance.

  • Investor · League City, TX · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 17 votes
    8y
    This scenario sounds like the real estate version of my dating life, lol. Don’r waste anymore time lamenting over this guy. He sounds unfocused at best or a scammer at worst. You dodged a bullet with this one. Best Wishes on finding a true mentor and PM in your target market.
  • Lansdale, PA · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 77 votes
    8y
    That sounds like he was trying to get a $40k wholesale assignment from you. Considering what he says he would pay and what you should buy it for. walk away. Fwiw, property managers are not mentors.
  • NYC, NY · Member since 2016 · 617 posts · 456 votes
    8y

    If the #s didn't work for you, and you stuck to your criteria, don't second guess yourself.  Move on.  Another opportunity will come along.  And maybe you should find a new "mentor".  

  • Investor · TX · Member since 2015 · 393 posts · 290 votes
    8y

    Life is too short to deal with that.  Cut him loose and find a PM who's not Ricky Roma wanna be.

  • Linda LabbePro Member
    Investor · North Bay, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 709 posts · 262 votes
    8y

    I live in ontario and if you are workign in KS I have a great team there that i can share I say no all the time if the project does not hit my  numbers  no issue they understand that my numbers are my numbers good for you sticking to your guns  its not cold feet its intellegence

  • Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 50 votes
    8y

    I said mentor, but more like someone to bounce ideas off of and get advice about the area from. In hind sight, you vuys sre right. My mentor and PM shouldn't be the same person. Too much of a chance for conflict of interest. 

    @james Wise My agent is independent but the leasing agent and PM work together. The PM came as a referral from the RE company. 

    For clarification, I'm in CA and he's in KC. I thought the FaceTime thing was a great idea. 

    @Ryan Evans

    The 100 property guy exists. I've spoken with him. He and our PM are close friends. Due to that, I don't think I'll be getting any leads from him now either. :(

    I try to have everyone I talk to keep an eye out for deals for me.  Bring out of state, it can't hurt to have extra eyes in my target area. :)

    I'm just bummed because I felt like he was in a good circle of people with the potential for a lot of great leads. Hate to lose thos potential contacts.

  • Investor · Saint Nicolas, Québec · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 20 votes
    8y

    Are you sure you want to work with this manager?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    I would rather "lose" that friend/mentor than be forced by him into buying a dud property and losing money. If he gets offended by you not buying his deal, he's trying to make money off you. Let him enjoy his new property.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y

    @Robert DeForge

    Can you clarify who “we” is when you say “we purchased”

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Robert DeForge:

    I said mentor, but more like someone to bounce ideas off of and get advice about the area from. In hind sight, you vuys sre right. My mentor and PM shouldn't be the same person. Too much of a chance for conflict of interest. 

    @james Wise My agent is independent but the leasing agent and PM work together. The PM came as a referral from the RE company. 

    For clarification, I'm in CA and he's in KC. I thought the FaceTime thing was a great idea. 

    @Ryan Evans

    The 100 property guy exists. I've spoken with him. He and our PM are close friends. Due to that, I don't think I'll be getting any leads from him now either. :(

    I try to have everyone I talk to keep an eye out for deals for me.  Bring out of state, it can't hurt to have extra eyes in my target area. :)

    I'm just bummed because I felt like he was in a good circle of people with the potential for a lot of great leads. Hate to lose thos potential contacts.

    You last statement is equivalent to breaking up with a significant other and saying you’ll never possibly meet someone as good as them ever again

    You always do.

    Also you are being way too dramatic.  The guy wanted to make money off you.  He will take your business in the future

  • Realtor · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 174 posts · 122 votes
    8y

    @Robert DeForge Never be uncomfortable telling your mentor you are uncomfortable with a deal for whatever reason.  If it really is a deal and they said they would buy it themselves no big deal.  I wouldn't make it super length but short and sweet.  We have been in the same situation just recently where have tried to expand into investing in different asset categories and there were no hard feelings.

  • Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 50 votes
    8y
    Chris Purcell I guess my post does kinda have that "I just got broken up with" feeling doesn't it.. LOL! Nothing like that, but I am strong. I will move on and find another. LOL! 😀
  • Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 50 votes
    8y
    Chris Purcell We, as in my wife and I.
  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Robert DeForge:

    Chris Purcell
    I guess my post does kinda have that "I just got broken up with" feeling doesn't it.. LOL!

    Nothing like that, but I am strong. I will move on and find another. LOL! 😀

    Ok I’m glad the we was you and your wife.  I thought it was you and your “mentor”

    Don’t stress it.  I have a Rolodex full of people I can hit up at any time I’m looking for a deal.  Start networking and get a solid contact base and you will realize they are a dime a dozen

  • Sandy, UT · Member since 2017 · 22 posts · 21 votes
    8y

    I totally get where you're coming from feeling a little weird about this situation, but based on the facts-- you acted professionally, the property wasn't a good fit for you (and the numbers weren't working for you which is totally FINE even if you were being extra conservative- that's YOUR prerogative).  Then, when you stated you didn't want to purchase it for $91k, your PM said he was going to buy it but he usually only pays 50k for "these types of properties".  Ummmm... some mentor!  If he would only pay 50K for it, he should be advising you of the same.  If he was wholesaling the deal, as @Nicholas Scatton suggests, then he should have been transparent about that (and I agree with Nicholas- I think he was)

    Don't be made to feel like you did anything wrong- you just avoided a bad deal! (It might not be a bad deal at the price of $50k though!)  Just because you're a new investor, doesn't mean you can't know your numbers and your market.

    Furthermore, I wouldn't necessarily cut ties with this PM, but I would pay close attention to the work he's doing for you- he's shown that he lacks integrity and may take advantage of you in other ways.  Also, you can breezily say/text/email- "sorry this one wasn't a good fit for me, but feel free to send me any other deals you may have- I'm open to more properties in this area".  He may not send you more, but it's ok for you to remind him you're still looking.  Plus, as your PM, he knows the more property you have, the more business he has.  

  • Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Robert DeForge Robert, you just dodged a terrible bullet that could have killed your capital lol. You should be celebrating! 🥂🎉 Now, I hope this same dude didn't get your first deal :/

    Post on this same site for another boots-on-the-ground contact person in KC, I'm sure you can find another person to help you. 

    Also, there are ways to leverage the internet to vet rents such as  Rentometer and  running comps yourself. 

    Hope this helps. Goodluck. Thanks! - Ola 

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    Sounds like you dodged a bullet and sounds like someone else was trying to make a quick buck off you. I know that I've walked a few deals because over a combination of rather trivial stuff, but it's my investment and the people I work with respected that (hard to put it words, but the property just wasn't a "good fit"). They wouldn't try to force a deal on me....

  • Property Manager · Castro Valley, CA · Member since 2016 · 212 posts · 110 votes
    8y

    @Robert DeForge,

    People responded about the mentor situation, but I just wanted to comment about picking out finishes / paint colors.

    You really shouldn't have to use your time doing face time about paint colors or finishes.  A PM should know what colors work for units in your market and possibly has a set of colors that all their units are painted.  

    The time to have an appointment face time about the counter color or paint color is lost time in rent.  Cabinet and granite companies give a no-brainer pallet combination so contractors don't waste time on that.

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