Father does not approve of my goals in REI

Father does not approve of my goals in REI

Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 0 votes

Wasn't really sure which category to put this under, but I've had two pretty heated discussions with my father about entering into real estate holding. To be fair, he has been involved in real estate for decades (owned a manufactured homes company, flipped homes for a few years, etc.), but he is absolutely convinced that there's no way I could buy lower end homes in my city to rent without ending up bankrupt. His fear is that anyone I would be dealing with would be such lowly people that they would do too much damage for me to make a profit, or won't pay rent, or that I won't be able to actually keep it rented and will end up in foreclosure. When I tell him all of the ways you can account for these things and budget it into your expenses to make sure you still come out on top, his counter is "then why isn't everyone doing it?"

I told him about the REI meetings they have in our area where local RE investors support each other, give advice, network, etc. to basically say "tons of people are doing this," and his first conclusion was that it must be some "investing club" that's trying to steal my money and convince me to buy real estate from them so I take on the risk and they try to get in on the management side to take a cut. Nothing of the sort happened. The one I went to last week was a meeting of about 60 people and it was almost awkward at first because no one was that acquainted and they all made small talk about their different investments before an experienced investor gave us a small presentation on how to best run your LLC to protect yourself and your assets (didn't plug or ask for anything more afterward and even gave us a checklist for things to make sure you've accomplished for your LLC). A guy next to me that I spoke with told me about his 12 properties he owned out right. He advised me to take things slow if I got into investing and to wait until I had the money to buy things out right like him. Does this sound predatory or fraudulent? It seemed to me like a friendly group of people with similar goals and willing to share advice.

I understand I'm an adult and I don't need my father's approval for something like this, but it's just very frustrating how resistant he was to the idea. He got so mad during our second conversation about it, he stormed off. To me it seems like his arguments were all scare tactics and heuristics ("I'm almost 60 years old--I've been around to long enough to know these things don't work" or "talk to A, B, and C about this and see how it worked out for them"). The guy is worth hundreds of millions, so it's difficult not to take his opinion very seriously--it's making something I was very excited to get into feel like this enormous risk that I won't end up pursuing if I keep getting this lecturing about it. Any advice on how to handle this?

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Rental Property Investor · Port Washington, WI · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 63 votes
8y

I feel your pain.  i really do.  my mother in law called me a slum lord when I shared my real estate vision.  Which i absolutely despised.  she even made a comment that i was going to lose all our money and they would have to pay for my kids college education.  You are absolutely correct that you do NOT need anyone's validation to pursue your dream. 

I am 47 and at the point in my life that if i dont try it, then it isnt going to happen.  I would now prefer to fail spectacularly than not try at all.  

To counter your father's own question "Why doesnt everyone just own a McDonald's?"   They certainly make money.  

Fear is why everyone doesnt do it.  I think there are definitely risks involved in lower end rentals, but as you said they have to be accounted for.  And you can put safeguards in place to ensure payment or minimize risks.  I actually think that if you are careful about who you place, you can actually get people who are likely to be long term renters.  

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  • Rental Property Investor · Port Washington, WI · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 63 votes
    8y

    I feel your pain.  i really do.  my mother in law called me a slum lord when I shared my real estate vision.  Which i absolutely despised.  she even made a comment that i was going to lose all our money and they would have to pay for my kids college education.  You are absolutely correct that you do NOT need anyone's validation to pursue your dream. 

    I am 47 and at the point in my life that if i dont try it, then it isnt going to happen.  I would now prefer to fail spectacularly than not try at all.  

    To counter your father's own question "Why doesnt everyone just own a McDonald's?"   They certainly make money.  

    Fear is why everyone doesnt do it.  I think there are definitely risks involved in lower end rentals, but as you said they have to be accounted for.  And you can put safeguards in place to ensure payment or minimize risks.  I actually think that if you are careful about who you place, you can actually get people who are likely to be long term renters.  

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 48 votes
    8y

    Even (especially) lower income working folks need a safe, affordable place to live.  Screen your tenants, offer them a good value in return for their rent and you will likely have no trouble getting and keeping tenants.  Your dad has lived and is living his own life - go ahead and live yours!

  • Rental Property Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 493 posts · 386 votes
    8y
    Is your dad ok if you invest in “medium” end homes C+ to B class neighborhoods? And is concern that you invest in “low”end homes or “war zones”?? If that’s the case he has a valid point.. For a beginner it’s not advice to start investing in “War Zones”. Stick w B class neighborhoods or even C+ class and once you have experience then you might consider low end homes. Don’t ignore your dads opinion, yes he can do a better job on his delivery but nobody is perfect.. I would start conversation Dad I want to invest in Real Estate, how do you recommend I should start ? I doubt he will discourage you if you present it that way
  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Grant Music don’t pop peoples paradigms. For a lot of people their job gives them their value or significance. Don’t take that away from them. If someone is not willing to learn don’t waste your time. Surround yourself with like minded people. Success leaves clues.
  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    My dad resists every word that comes out of my mouth as a reaction, then sometimes he repeats what I say later as a good idea - lol. I think part of it is just his nature and the other part is trying to help out the kid with an older and (hopefully) wiser perspective. Its love dude - take it for what it is.

    That said, if your dad is worth hundreds of millions, he might have some better ideas than any of us do.

    And, if he has that much money, why not give some to you!!! You only live once and you cant take it with you, so unless your dad has some dream of starting (or continuing) some dynasty you all should cash in and start enjoying the beach and those drinks with the little umbrellas, while you are still alive. Dynasty's are over-rated and generally produce horrible people the world can do without.

    If your dad is the Warren Buffet type that thinks their kids should figure it out cause that builds character, then why the hell should you listen to him anyways? F-it, do what you think is right and let the chips fall where they may.

    Anywhos, you have the sort of problems that many would gladly trade for theirs.

  • Real Estate Investor · Unionville, CT · Member since 2016 · 260 posts · 167 votes
    8y
    We don’t always have people who have our backs or support us. More time often than not, my friends have asked me “why are you buying another house?” Sigh... Do what you want and you know what that is- even if you don’t get the support initially. Sometimes it takes a while for people to get the big picture.
  • Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    Nobody in my circle has followed my path of real estate.My fiancé and I have been together 8 years now before I even started, and she could care less.

    This endeavor takes partners and teammates, but you want people to GROW WITH, not DRAG ALONG.

    If you think your dad will be the only person to give you grief about this you're wrong, but he's great practice to learn that you have to do it without some people, and in opposition of some people. He's not going to change his mind, dont' let him change yours. This path towards wealth WORKS.

    I tell me mother all the time when I do something she doesn't approve of "thanks for the birth mom, but this life is mine, I owe you nothing"

    good luck dude, persevere.

  • Camby, IN · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    8y
    Would you Dad be open to coming with you once to one of the meetings and maybe even discussing with some people at the meetings?
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    8y

    Grant are you saying your dad is worth hundreds of millions or he has friends worth that?

    If your dad has decades of success in real estate to that degree then why are you going to real estate investment meetings and listening to investors with just a sliver and net worth of his experience level??

    Why not look at an asset your dad agrees with and can get excited about so maybe he can partner with you or help you get started?

    Low income tenants are a LOT of work and drama. If your dad already has tons of money I do not blame him for wanting  returns in a close to headache free way.

    Most start out with low income because they have to. As they move up the net worth ladder investors tend to want less headaches and move into higher quality assets where ongoing cash flow is a little less but long term equity growth prospects are high.

    There is generally not demand for low income areas except for investor buyers searching for yield to deal with a headache versus ultra high quality areas where investors will usually pay  a premium to a seller to own in an area. That is why low income areas tend to stay the same in value with little to no appreciation over a long span of time.   

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Grant Music,

    Years ago, my mother was mostly negative about my interest in REI. Now, she can't stop smiling and asking me "how many houses do you own?" If I had listened to her in the beginning, I'd be now kicking rocks and wondering what might have been. The bottom line is that she (and many others) were a combination of very ignorant and very afraid. But I was not, and that made all the difference.

    Don't try to convince anyone else.  The only person you need to convince is yourself.  Then all you need to to is go do it.

    Are you convinced?  Are you ready?  What are you waiting for?

  • Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    His advice is valued because of his experience, but it shouldn't be the only advice you hear, or take into consideration.  Read Rich Dad Poor Dad.  That is a story of 2 dads with differing opinions.  In fact, the "poor" dad was so convinced that the only way to make money is to work hard and EARN it, but he was missing the opportunities that the "Rich" dad had already discovered, which were the abilities to use OPM to earn more than just on your own.

    Your dad has SOME good points about low income housing bringing trouble and expense.  This is a proven fact.  However, one would argue that manufactured housing could ALSO fit into that category, and it looks like he did okay, right?  I bet he had people telling him that mobile homes were a bad idea, and that he was selling trailer trash.  What did he think about that?  How did it affect his decision to move forward?

    If you have a good strategy, and a good plan in place for seeing it through, you shouldn't be worried about anyone's opinion about what you are doing. The fact is, they haven't done the research that you have to come to the decision you have. Ask your dad to come with you to an REI meeting. Maybe he can meet some people and share his investor stories.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2017 · 350 posts · 611 votes
    8y

    Curious, you said your dad is/was involved in REI for decades and is worth hundreds of millions. He made his money from those RE investments?

    If so, not sure why he is discouraging you.  Probably discouraging you from investing in Class D and lower properties, which I could understand.  They could be tough to handle for a beginner

    I hear that all the time - "then why isn't everyone doing it?"  

    If doctors make alot of money, "then why isn't everyone doing it?"  Same goes for hedge fund managers, lawyers, etc.  Some choose a different path because that is their passion and they have different values.  You have to be passionate about REI and hustle, have perseverance, live/breathe/eat REI,  have perseverance,  work the numbers, have perseverance and finally TAKE ACTION.  

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    Your father is not completely wrong. The majority of beginners getting into C/D class properties probably do fail. The vast majority of investors on here probably would have failed as well if that was where they started. Many criticise me for my hard nosed zero emotion approach to our business. Fact is I probably could do well in C/D class investing. But I am not interested and would not advise anyone to start there that can't make decisions without being handicapped by emotion and compassion. You can account for many issues but you can not change your personality.

    Think about what your dad is saying not how he is saying it.

  • Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2016 · 102 posts · 113 votes
    8y

    @Grant Music This post is so classic.  I love it.  There are so many lessons to be learned here.  First, LISTEN to your father.  It sounds like he cares about you a lot and has a wealth of experience to draw from.  You don't have to heed every warning but you do have to HEAR every warning.  Give the man the respect his years of experience and net worth would indicate he deserves.  Probe him for advice, approach him with an open mind, and try to see it from his perspective.

    On the flip side, show me an investor that didn't get negative push back from their friends and family when they first started.  I dare you.  Overcoming self doubt manifested from negative responses of those around you (especially those you care about most) is a large part of discovering your path to success.  It IS frustrating but it comes with the territory.

    I would absolutely love to see your dad create a profile on BP and share his knowledge of this subject in this forum.  I think a ton of people would benefit from that including you.

    Good luck and never stop learning.  And most importantly never, ever, ever give up!

  • Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    Holy cow! Expected this to get lost in the forums. I really appreciate all the support, guys. Really picked me up. My father is also a very good arguer, so even if what he's saying is wrong, he's pretty damn convincing. After stepping away from our argument though, I've decided that the best thing to do is just show him. I'm going to talk to some of the big investors in this area and see if they'd be willing to show me some numbers they have on their properties so he can literally see a breakdown of the area I'm trying to buy and see that it performs well enough for it to be viable. If that doesn't work, I'm moving forward anyway and hopefully success will convince him.

    Also for clarification purposes, he used to flip back in the day and had moderate success with it. His real success has been with the mortgage company he owns. So although he's been in real estate for awhile, he has not been involved with holding, which is where focused. He's all for me flipping houses if I want, but he is against buying properties in the C neighborhoods to hold. Everyone who's actually involved though--including highly experienced investors in the area--say this is where to go as other neighborhoods won't cash flow as well and are thus riskier even though the tenants may be a little easier to work with. 

    I also don't seek him out for advice much because he is much busier than these other people who have seen success specifically with holding properties. He is also a very hands off kind of father and I think he prefers I learn things on my own rather than turning to him for everything, and I prefer it this way anyway. I think it makes life more real world for me and I learn to work more for my success. Thanks all for your answers and it's helped me feel more comfortable moving forward without having approval (yet). I guess I'll just have to show everyone instead.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Aaaah.....that may explain it! 

    If your father owns a mortgage company, then he has seen many, many investors go belly up after the mortgage crash. He or his company may have been stuck with properties in C/D neighborhoods.  

    That may have helped shape his view.

  • Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    So you have a father with a huge net worth who would support you in certain types of RE investing, but not others. He probably has a lot of contacts and other inside info that would be helpful to you

     But, you insist on taking another RE route that he doesn' like. I'm thinking you should get over your own preconceived ideas and take advantage of the great assistance your father might be. You can always come back to war zone investing later.

  • Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    it might be worth asking your Dad, what he thinks would be the best way to get your feet wet in real estate and give it a try.  Perhaps your Dad was hoping you'd want to join him in the family business? 

    Your Dad very likely has your best interests at heart and might just be a little hurt that you would be more interested in taking advice from strangers rather than from him.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Junction, CO · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes
    8y

    @Grant Music I just knew I could flip houses and I arranged my first deal (no money down) without my husband's knowledge because I knew he'd give me all the arguments against it. I made money and he came around. I am 63 years old and have 4 kids in their 30s. I have encouraged all to own homes and one works for me full time in real estate. But now one son and one son-in-law want to do something with brewing beer and owning a brewery-bistro or something (not privvy to all the details at this point) and I'm terrified for them. I can "understand" buying an apartment building - but I don't go to bars, I don't drink beer, etc. etc. - their enthusiasm is lost on me. Doesn't make them wrong. Just pointing out things from the experienced parent end of the deal (having been you a long time ago...) 

  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    8y

    When your Dad asked you, "Why doesn't everyone do it", he was not looking for an answer. He already knows the answer. He wants you to find that out before you fall into all the pitfalls that he also warned you about. Because they are real. Any investor or advisor that does not tell you about the things your Dad brought up, do not trust them. 

    I invest in areas that most people would not invest in. I would not recomend investing in these areas to most people, because most people will fail. That said most people will fail in good areas. 

    If you fail in a low income area, you will lose everything. If you fail in a better area, you will not lose everything. 

    In a better area if you get tired you can turn the property over to a property manager and sell when you get your price.

    In low class neighborhoods finding a property manager will be tough if not impossible. Empty or bad tenents will make your property of little value at best. I buy from investors like you all the time. 

    What your Dad wants you to do is research your exit plan if your plan does not work out like you expect. Get it down on paper. The worst possible senerio. Then develope an exit plan to limit your loss. Have the two plans on paper before you make a decision. 

    If you decide to invest in these areas, get ready for all the suprises that no one is telling you about. 

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