Why should I *not* invest in turnkey properties?

Why should I *not* invest in turnkey properties?

Orange County, CA · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 0 votes

Hi everyone, I'm looking to start off in real estate investing. I've done a ton of research on BRRRR, flipping, wholesaling, and a bunch of other various strategies. They all have their various pros & cons. Given that I have a full time job that I don't want to leave (I have no desire to become a real estate agent, flip houses for a living, etc.), and given that I'd like to start off investing in real estate with little overhead, it seems like the best approach is to buy turnkey properties from a provider that I trust (and do all the research on, get reviews from other people, form a relationship with, etc.). I have a decent amount of equity in my primary residence that I can use to make my first few purchase. With my full time job, I can put a decent amount into savings each month such that I can buy multiple properties a year (aiming for ~$75k-$120k properties that would net 1% rent, rather than the 2% approach). I ran a bunch of numbers and it looks very feasible for me to build a decent portfolio over the course of 5-10 years with what appears to be little effort relative to managing rehabs, hunting for deals, etc.

Therefore, I'm pretty sold on the turnkey approach at this point. So I want to ask other people here: given your experience, what reasons can you give for *not* starting off with turnkey real estate? I'd like to know about horror stories, words of caution, things to watch out for, etc.

Thanks in advance!

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Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2009 · 575 posts · 496 votes
8y

Biggest mistake in TK buying that I see from OOS investors is looking ONLY at cash flow when making a decision on what to purchase.  Cash flow is just one aspect of a buy and hold.  It makes me cringe every time I hear an OOS investor say "Im looking for strictly cash-flow properties".   Equity should be the goal.  Not just cash flow.  Its a mindset thats needed from acquisition all the way to year 5 / year 10, etc.  

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  • Ottawa, IL · Member since 2016 · 242 posts · 107 votes
    8y

    @Carter J. 

    Regarding this, I was planning on going through alternate methods of finding highly recommended contractors and/or assessors to independently assess what is wrong with each property before I buy it. Perhaps I'm living in a dream world and this isn't as practical as I would like to think. I know people keep knowledge of good contractors a secret, since they are hard to find. That's why I have to also consider finding independent assessors, though I haven't really heard of this so maybe that's not really a thing people can do. I'm still new to all this. Are there any recommendations you could make for how to independently assess whether or not a property is too good to be true?

    Yes, most buyers in our market do a home inspection. Just make sure you find someone good, there are some that aren't as good and others that are amazingly thorough. Also, some have a special guarantee, like one locally is insured with something that if an inspection issue was missed, allows you to sell the house and buy another one without losing out on any money. I think that's a little extreme, but just want to let you know what type of questions to be asking and 100% get an inspector. We see new construction houses with major problems and the flips out this way make me cringe with some of the make-shift things they do, and I'm hardly an inspector!

    I'm planning on saving about 10% of the property's purchase price in an emergency account in case of unexpected capital expenses that insurance doesn't cover. Does that seem like enough or is that unreasonably low?

    Nope, that's awesome, most people don't hold money back, so that's what I was looking for. Of course, I'd base it on the inspection, like if the furnace was old, or the roof, I would hold back more or less depending on what might need done, but have some just in case anyway. The most unexpected things can happen!

    Honestly, this isn't a big one for me. I plan on buying 40-60 properties over the next 10 years and so if I bake that amount into the numbers I run, I'll learn from the first few deals and be more conservative in the future. I'll certainly have fewer properties that match my numbers, but I believe I can learn from these situations.

    If anything, I would plan more conservatively now, and when you have more units in the future, I think you can take more risks and not have it effect you as much.

    In this case, this is where I believe having multiple properties are going to really help. There will be dry months, but the more properties I have, the more the sum total of rentals can offset vacancy of others. With that said, I have baked in about 5% vacancy into each of the properties I have run, just to be safe.

    As long as you are planning for these things to happen, I think that's the important part.

    If I lose my job *and* there is vacancy, then similar to the above answer, I'd be able to rely on the extra money brought in by the other non-vacant rentals. Additionally, in order to pay my own mortgage, pay for living expenses (food, utilities, etc.), I have saved up 6 months of expenses in an emergency fund to handle that type of a situation. For my risk threshold, this should give me time to find another job to replace my current income.

    What you're speaking of though sounds more like you are purchasing a complex? Initially I assumed you were talking about SFH? And at 1%, does that really cover the mortgage and the cost if something comes up and your vacancies and your living expenses? And is 6 months long enough for you to get another job (it probably just depends on your position) but just some things to think about. To me, those numbers don't really make sense, which is why I would personally want to do more than 2%.

    I want to build enough passive income to not only meet, but exceed my current W2 income. That way, once I'm comfortable with living off the passive rental income, I can not *have* to work. However, knowing me, I won't stop doing things, but at least if I want to take some time off, I am not forced to work if life throws curve balls at me.

    So then, my question, why 1%? Why not buy up cheap properties and have a team to rehab if that gets you a higher amount? Plus, then, you could have the option to BRRR and build that up even faster, IMO, than buying turn key and not necessarily knowing what you're getting. 

    Just a few things to think about but otherwise, I would suggest buying one or two and seeing how it goes. Plans can always change and you can see if it works well for you or not.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2015 · 312 posts · 273 votes
    8y

    @jay hindrichs

    For me personally i would not mortgage the family home to buy investment property.. unless you have substantial cash savings to rescue you in the event of a poor experience turn key or not. 

    I agree with Jay and would even go further. Having a highly leveraged position in an asset that doesn't cash flow for anything is a lot riskier than many people know. Have you thought about selling your home and renting for awhile. With cash to invest its easy to get cash flow. Rate increases and mass exodus are major risks of owning CA high price sector right now.

  • Orange County, CA · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    @Laura Williams, thanks for the words of warning regarding the more risky type neighborhoods. That's definitely not within my risk threshold. Thanks for the examples you provided.

    Solid point. The areas I'd been looking at had increased marginally over the years, so your examples of recovering money via appreciation are making me think a bit more.

    @Melissa Kirchhoff, thanks for the follow-up.

    Thank you!

    Yeah, I can see how my wording would make it sound like that. I plan on buying multiple SFHs to diversify my risk.

    The more properties we buy, in addition to my W2 job, yes, I should be able to cover it. I'd be very surprised if something exceedingly expensive happened that wasn't covered by the property insurance I'll be getting for these rentals.

    Yeah, thankfully my industry is thriving right now; hence why I'm not really looking to make real estate my primary income right away, but rather slowly transition into it over the long term via compounding passive income.

    That will require a lot more overhead than I care to deal with. My W2 job is demanding enough, so I really don't have the time to build up and invest in a rehab team that I trust. Plus, my personal risk tolerance for doing rehabs requires that (for me, not speaking for others) I'd like to only do rehabs where they are local. I'm sure it's possible to make a fortune with rehabs out of my local area, but that's just a lot of headache that I'd rather not deal with.

    Yeah, that's the funny part about all this. I've done a ton of research and analysis. But knowing my luck, I'll end up totally changing strategies within a few years. Guess we'll see!

    @Gordon Starr, thanks for the follow up.

    Yeah, I ran the numbers on this and given the rent prices in our area, it just doesn't make sense.

    That's why we're taking the HELOC approach, though technically it's not cash since it's leveraged. With that said, our house has increased in value by 20% since we purchased it 3 years ago, so the local market is only going up. Holding onto it and utilizing that equity seems to make the most sense for us. I'm sure different strategies such as selling and renting would work far better in other areas.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Mullin:

    Biggest mistake in TK buying that I see from OOS investors is looking ONLY at cash flow when making a decision on what to purchase.  Cash flow is just one aspect of a buy and hold.  It makes me cringe every time I hear an OOS investor say "Im looking for strictly cash-flow properties".   Equity should be the goal.  Not just cash flow.  Its a mindset thats needed from acquisition all the way to year 5 / year 10, etc.  

     its kind of ironic how we all have different opinions.. but the I only want cash flow and appreciation is icing on the cake.. sure has taken over the mind set of it seems like the majority of investors.

    for me appreciation Is every thing or value add and cash flow is just the place setter..  Unless of course you paying cash and have substantial cash flow.. but I get it the premise but with cash flow and debt you need lot of doors to really get anywhere. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2016 · 513 posts · 374 votes
    8y

    @Carter J.

    you can set your portfolio buy going one to one and a half hour east in riverside or san bernadino county. thats the way i started initially and i still hold those properties from 2010. 

    once equity has built up locally, you can scale to OOS using the equity appreciation.

    of course in la county and orange county, prices are high but then there is watts area where a few investors specialize and do very well. 

    there is a still a lot of action here...

  • Property Manager · San Bernardino, CA · Member since 2014 · 473 posts · 238 votes
    8y

    I think a lot of people tend to choose turn-key rentals in other states than California because they take less cash to play the game. In your case, it sounds like you want a more passive investment, which turn-key companies can provide. That being said, I have heard some horror stories from people who had horrible experiences with turn-key companies. 

    If I were you and I was looking into turn-key units I would do a couple of things:

    - Pick a state/city that you are willing to travel to or maybe already travel to for vacation.

    - Research the turn-key company's property management methods. I see most horror stories happen after escrow closes and the turn-key company has made their big money off of you.

    - Choose areas with somewhat predictable climates. If your unit floods or catches fire, you better believe that the turn-key company is not going to be of much help.

    That being said, you may also want to look into investing in real estate funds, syndication or investing into Opportunity Zones if you are looking for even more passive returns.

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Laura Williams:

    @Carter J.  I don't have a problem with turnkey and I think in theory it could be nice. The problem I have with it is they usually invest in bad neighborhoods to get those returns on paper to look good. And I've seen that end in disaster for more than one investor @Gordon Starr example of the photo is pretty spot on. Usually with a bad neighborhood there is no appreciation and one thing goes wrong and you're screwed..owe more than the house is worth. And when you're dealing with a really low tenant class you'll have issues you never dreamed possible. 

    Laura, I agree that some turn key companies focus on cheap, low end neighborhoods and that those neighborhoods don't perform, but not all turn key companies have the same focus. Turn key can be a good route for many people, especially new, out of state investors that don't have a lot of time on their hands but they need to carefully vet the turn key company and understand the areas that they operate in.

  • Member since 2018 · 18 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @AJ Singh:

    @Carter J.

    you can set your portfolio buy going one to one and a half hour east in riverside or san bernadino county. thats the way i started initially and i still hold those properties from 2010. 

    once equity has built up locally, you can scale to OOS using the equity appreciation.

    of course in la county and orange county, prices are high but then there is watts area where a few investors specialize and do very well. 

    there is a still a lot of action here...

    I'm LA based. Wondering what sections you could get started with within driving distance with 80/100k all in?

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