My first property - what happened

My first property - what happened

Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 36 votes

I'm 28 years old and I made my first residential property purchase in April 2019. The home is a 3bd/2ba, 2300sqft purchased for $417k. Location is great. This home was purchase originally** as my primary residence. 

A couple of quick takeaways from the purchase. 

  1. 1. Definitely use an experienced realtor/lender. If you're not familiar with real estate or it's your first deal the paperwork alone can be overwhelming. Having someone you trust to give you good advice is important. 
  2. 2. It's going to cost more then you think. Closing costs, any remodel, oh you need the vents cleaned? $500, how about that spicket fixed? $250, the grading on the house needs to be altered? $1000. Bottom line, things come up that you don't anticipate. Make sure you aren't spreading yourself too thin between the mortgage payments and your monthly income to cover things like this. 
  3. 3. Contractors are difficult. Had new doors and windows installed in the house, bid at $3k for the install. Half way through he wanted $2k over what he bid me. Long story short the job that was supposed to take 3 weeks took 3 months and almost ended up in court. Only use a contractor through a good referral. I took that stance that you bid it, it's not my problem that you misjudged. 
     

I run my business from home so I'm lucky enough to be able to work from anywhere. I was spending some time out in San Diego and ended up falling in love with it. Decided to rent my house out 6 months after purchasing it, and just landed in SD last week.

Renting my house out really opened my eyes to the opportunity that real estate gives. All in my monthly expense on the house is around $2100 (mortgage, tax, insurance, HOA), I rented it out in 2 weeks at $3k/mo. I'm in full on learning mode about all aspects of real estate investing.

Here are a few takeaways from the rental experience. 

  1. 1. Staging matters. Since I originally purchased the home as my primary residence I furnished it very nicely. I believe this helped a lot when putting it on the market. The listing pictures turned out amazing and I got top dollar in the neighborhood. Next year when it goes back on the market I will use the same photos to generate interest. I think the house shows a lot better with furniture in it (especially if congruent with photos) but that is an expensive proposition to move everything back in to show it. My gut tells me that would be unnecessary but we will see. I think having nice furniture in an apartment/home (even if only rented for staging purposes) to get professional photos is totally worth it. I'll use them over and over again.
  2. 2. I wouldn't use an agent. The showings we had were approx 50/50 MLS to websites like Zillow. Next time around I will use a service like turbotenant to push the listing to those websites. I ended up showing the house myself mainly so there wasn't value for me there. I can do the contracts myself now so the potential 6% loss on annual revenue isn't worth it to me. Negotiations I would also rather do myself.
  3. 3. A good experience. This was a good experience so far but I know it's only the beginning. There will undoubtedly be challenges but I feel grateful that it's gone smoothly up until this point for the reason it's sparked my curiosity in real estate. 

The rental process looked like this: decided to rent my house out/analyzed pricing, staged for pictures, professional photos, listed on MLS, showed house, potential tenant applications/background/credit checks/verify income, contract, money hand over, move out.

I'm excited to be here at bigger pockets and looking forward to connecting. I hope this helps someone, if you have any questions let me know. Thanks!

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Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 96 posts · 124 votes
6y

@Dennis M.

He’s cashflowing 900 a month and the property seems to be in really good shape. He also purchased it as his primary residence and turned it into a rental. Seems like a win to me. Read the whole post and don’t be negative.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Wholesaler · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 306 posts · 133 votes
    6y

    Hello Schuyler! Most of what you said but you did not mention your distance between SanDiego and your invest home. I was sorry to see that a HOA is involved but I hope you checked them out and the likelihood that they will increase the fee. Everything else sounds pretty good. Perform strict screening and your management and do not take any chances or cut corners. Even thoughI was a licensed broker in Texas for about 30 years but I got into construction full time, I agree with not using an Agent when you buy. I grew up in Dallas so I lived in a great experience for real estate actions and how much diversity counts.

    I wish your continued good luck!

  • Jonathan BombaciBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Lowell, MA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Congrats it sounds like a solid start! 

    What’s your #1 lesson learned? What will you do differently with property #2? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    You paid 417k and get only 3k in rent and you have an HOA involved . Glad it's been an easy fun experience for you but that sounds like a horrible use of money

  • Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 96 posts · 124 votes
    6y

    @Dennis M.

    He’s cashflowing 900 a month and the property seems to be in really good shape. He also purchased it as his primary residence and turned it into a rental. Seems like a win to me. Read the whole post and don’t be negative.

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kevin Whisler:

    @Dennis M.

    He’s cashflowing 900 a month and the property seems to be in really good shape. He also purchased it as his primary residence and turned it into a rental. Seems like a win to me. Read the whole post and don’t be negative.

    There are other metrics involved besides what’s left after a mortgage and taxes Kevin . If you have almost half a million into a building and getting about 900 bucks that is not exactly an Amazing  big return on your money but I guess being such an expert you already knew that lol 

  • Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 36 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michael Lewis Lee:

    Hello Schuyler! Most of what you said but you did not mention your distance between SanDiego and your invest home. I was sorry to see that a HOA is involved but I hope you checked them out and the likelihood that they will increase the fee. Everything else sounds pretty good. Perform strict screening and your management and do not take any chances or cut corners. Even thoughI was a licensed broker in Texas for about 30 years but I got into construction full time, I agree with not using an Agent when you buy. I grew up in Dallas so I lived in a great experience for real estate actions and how much diversity counts.

    I wish your continued good luck!

    The property was purchased in Scottsdale, Arizona. Yes, HOA is a pain but luckily they are well funded, I think they have over $1M in reserves. I actually thought using an agent was definitely worth it when you buy but not when you rent. You don't believe this?

  • Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 36 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Bombaci:

    Congrats it sounds like a solid start! 

    What’s your #1 lesson learned? What will you do differently with property #2? 

     I think the biggest lesson I learned was how much cash a property can take to properly maintain it. For the next one I'll work in a larger budget for this. Also educating myself on what to look for and what to stay away from in a property will pay dividends in the future. 

    Appreciate your support! 

  • Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    @Dennis M. lol I wouldn't say this has been a fun experience. I would say it's been a learning experience. I ran the numbers and at that return over 20 years I think its between a 5%-6% cap rate. I agree that's not great, and when compared to my business for example (it's actually terrible), but from what I've seen from real estate it's about mid-range ROI.

    Because the property is in a good location I'll hopefully see less of a hit when/if the market corrects and some decent appreciation over time. I'll hold this for the long term with the goal of it being 1 of 10+. 

    I'm not here to claim I know everything, actually exactly the opposite! Reason I'm here is to learn how to increase my ROI in these types of investments.

    What typical returns do you see in your properties? 

  • Wholesaler · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 306 posts · 133 votes
    6y

    Thanks!

  • Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 36 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kevin Whisler:

    @Dennis M.

    He’s cashflowing 900 a month and the property seems to be in really good shape. He also purchased it as his primary residence and turned it into a rental. Seems like a win to me. Read the whole post and don’t be negative.

    Haha I appreciate this. Frankly I was happy with the way things worked out just so I could move. Now that I know $900/mo is **** ;) I'll make more on the next one. 

    Cheers!

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    You paid 417k and get only 3k in rent and you have an HOA involved . Glad it's been an easy fun experience for you but that sounds like a horrible use of money

    I am not as adamant as Dennis about this being a horrible use of money. I do agree with his implied sentiment on cash flow. Research the 50% rule (40% rule if self managed) for an estimated long term cash flow projection. In high rent areas, I typically believe the 50% rule is too conservative but not when there is an HOA.

    As for @Kevin Whisler and his projected cash flow estimate, I suspect he has done this as long as Dennis or me.

    The reason I am not as convinced as Denis about it being a horrible use of money is that due to long term historic appreciation (market and rent) there is a chance this out performs some other investment opportunities.  You would need to be able to weather the initial negative cash flow until rent appreciation results in positive cash flow.   i do agree with Dennis that you could have purchased a better investment property, but this was not purchased as an investment property but as your home.  I started in this exact way.  Guess what is my lowest return RE for its equity?   It is my ex-home because it was bought to be a good home for me and not necessarily to be a good investment property. 

    HOpefully there are some positive take away in this response for the OP. 

    Good luck. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    its a long game there is Nothing wrong with a tenant paying off your mortgage in a VERY stable and potentially appreciating market or community.. and like others said you bought it to live in..

    you will find two camps on BP..

    One CASH flow is everything and the only reason to own rentals is to get the max amount of cash flow possible and appreciation is gambling luck or whatever.  this tends to be a mid west rust belt sentiment since those areas dont appreciate much or if they do % wise they are starting at such a low dollar amount its really nothing..  like if you buying a rental for 30k and it appreciated 10% in one year thats 3k  big deal right.  So for those investors its all about COC return and not IRR becasue they dont expect to sell the homes down the road for much more than they paid for them  if that.. and frankly could take loss's on them if they dont 1031 and have to pay recapture and sales load. So these investors its all about doors and scale.  and keep in mind where those folks are coming from they can buy 10 rentals for what you paid for that house and rent them for say 600 to 800 a month.. so that is their baseline and its the cards they are dealt you play the cards your market deals you.

    Then you have the west coast/east coast and say Denver and other higher priced markets and their  mind set.  Where cash flow out of the gate with minimum down is generally break even to a little negative but with rents rising in these areas it usually catchs up.. also exit if needed you are not doomed to only sell to another investor who wants a great deal.  You can actually sell to a home owner who could care less what the rent is.. they want to live there..  and for me personally being more west coast bia's cash flow means a place setter so i can then sell for big gains.  and we create big gains a few ways value add re gentrification of neighborhoods  IE path of progress..  Land in the path of progress  carefully chosen Timber or AG tracts etc etc.. so there is many ways to slice the real estate orange up.. end of the day though the true measure is IRR not COC .. that is if your ever going to stop being a landlord..


  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
    6y

    That magic term, "cashflow!  I wish you luck.  Tenants are often very hard on homes, even those who seem as if they would not be.  A home that cost you 417K (and probably more like 450K when you consider what you had to put into it).  Assuming that everything goes perfectly, and you never have to put a dime into it this year, you're going to make about 10K on it for the year.  That is a return of less than 2.5% with a LOT of risk.  Risk tenant won't pay.  Risk tenant will damage property.  Risk you would have to recondition it before sale.  Risk the house will drop in value.  Of course, there's also the potential that the house will rise in value = but to realize that gain, you've got to sell it, with likely costs of about 30K.  

    This is why I HATE the term "cashflow".  Look instead at return on investment, effort, risk.    A property that costs ten million dollars, and cash flows 100 dollars a year, still has positive cash flow!

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Schuyler G. how would you go about finding a better contractor? Most people say contractors are the hardest to find (and trust).

  • Developer · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 151 posts · 84 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Vic Oyedeji:

    @Schuyler G. how would you go about finding a better contractor? Most people say contractors are the hardest to find (and trust).

    Vic, the best way is to get a referral from somebody. Local investors, brokers, and property managers are all great resources. After you get a referral, ask the contractor for references, so you can talk to a couple of people that have used this contractor before.

    Even better if you can tour a project that the contractor is working on.

    Now, if you have a small renovation job, then the contractor might not give you a lot of attention. If this is the case, let the contractor know that you'll have bigger and more projects down the line, so you'd like to develop a relationship with him, or you can tell the contractor that you know other friends/investors that are also looking for good contractors (if applicable). 

    Contractors are really busy nowadays, especially the good ones, so be mindful of their time.

    Good luck!

  • Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    @Vic Oyedeji believe them! I would try my best to find a contractor through referrals. Talk to agents, lenders, other home owners in your area.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs that's an interesting take you have about the 2 BP camps, cashflow vs appreciation. I just joined BP a few days ago and I see the separation lol.

    I heard a successful investor say that coastal residential areas rise up quickly when the overall economy goes up, and falls quickly when the market goes down...while the midwest's residential market doesn't go up or down much depending on the economy.

    Therefore the midwest is better for cashflow since prices don't fluctuate too much, while investing in the coastal areas is best when the market is down, because it gains both great cashflow and better appreciation when the market goes up.

    What's your take on that?

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Jay Chang

    Thanks.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Vic Oyedeji:

    @Jay Hinrichs that's an interesting take you have about the 2 BP camps, cashflow vs appreciation. I just joined BP a few days ago and I see the separation lol.

    I heard a successful investor say that coastal residential areas rise up quickly when the overall economy goes up, and falls quickly when the market goes down...while the midwest's residential market doesn't go up or down much depending on the economy.

    Therefore the midwest is better for cashflow since prices don't fluctuate too much, while investing in the coastal areas is best when the market is down, because it gains both great cashflow and better appreciation when the market goes up.

    What's your take on that?

    that's about right.  its hard to measure though as the 08 GFC was such a outlier.. who knows if values will go down like they did then.. and values during that time dropped everywhere not just the coasts

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2008 · 319 posts · 243 votes
    6y

    It sounds like you learned a lot that you can use for your next deal. Learning on a property you bought for a primary has its ups and downs. On one hand it is not likely the best cash flow situation, but you are already into it and are familiar. It can be a real drag when tenants don’t treat the property right after you have lived there and thought of it as your home. 

  • Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2019 · 264 posts · 279 votes
    6y

    @Dennis M. Maybe he only put down 40k. Like you say there are a lot of variables in RE investing I would think 11K return on 40K investment is nice going, plus all the other tax advantages of being a landlord. He could buy every two years and build up his assets easy and by the time he is 40 be a wealthy man. But I wouldn’t do that in California

  • Rental Property Investor · Clarkston, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Vic Oyedeji and others. Bpers tent to be blind to the original rei networking Orgs in most cities called Reia's.

    Go to meetup.org search real estate investing etc. Join the local investor groups and only use referred contractors from another investor.

    Smartest is to be a member of many groups!

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2019 · 20 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    Looks like you're good! Nice to see people starting up here also.  I'm 24 and just recently joined the industry, let's connect! 

  • Mc Gregor, TX · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    @Schuyler Goldfarb

    I did the same thing for 3 years. It’s been great! Renting out my former higher end residence. It’s a good way to learn. We saved our cash flow while we learned- then used that as the down payment on a researched rental.

    At some point we will sell and have the down payment for an apartment complex. We r learning about that right now.

  • Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 36 votes
    6y

    @Tyler Weaver Hopefully with a bit of paint and new carpet it will be good as new when the time comes. Good thing about homes is anything can be fixed but that's the risk I took when I rented it out. Thanks for the
    comment! 

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