another "poor millennial can't afford a house" article, critiqued

another "poor millennial can't afford a house" article, critiqued

Adam TafelBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 570 posts · 393 votes

Article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/your-parents-financial-advice-is-kind-of-wrong-11568367000?mod=e2fb&fbclid=IwAR2XL4axyaQpo43fAkn_Q_fWBU3GiHJ9_K6t5c8G6rMnPCfed1KBBXIVhTo

Response:

Let me set the scene to save you some time. Our subject is 32 years old, a regulatory attorney living in Seattle. She got her undergrad at University of Rochester, law degree at Syracuse, and is absolutely crippled and distraught over her remaining 140k in student loan debt. Home ownership is completely out of reach, she got bad advice from her parents regarding her education, and feels like a “moral failure when [she] can’t reach these milestones”. Ok. Deep breath. Lets break this down.

Our friend didn’t pick cheap schools. She probably spent about 50k/year for 7 years of education, that’s a nice price tag. She’s been making payments for “much of the last decade”, which has got to sting a bit. Who knows how much was financed, but if she’s got her principal down to 140k she’s made a serious dent. She claims to be living frugally (packs a lunch, doesn’t vacation, takes bus), and shares a modest apartment with her husband. If she makes 100k/year, contributing 4000/mo will pay off the balance in about 3 years. If she’s a working attorney with a 350k education and can’t set aside 52k/year, I am forced to call BS on her “frugal” lifestyle. Regardless of my optimism, I feel for her.

Well played so far, WSJ. We’ve cherry-picked someone with a ton of debt, living in one of the most competitive housing markets in the USA, mad at the world. Yes, it will be a few years before our friend owns a home. It’s a convenient case study to make a point: it’s so hard for us millennials to buy houses! Here we go...

Citing “Apartment List” as a source, Carpenter (author) claims that 2/3 of millennial renters need at least 20 years to save 20% on a median priced home. Excuse you? Let’s do some quick maths. 280k (median home price) x .2 / 20 years = $53.84 per week, not accounting for 20 years of interest/stock market gains. Ok, maybe avocado toast IS a relevant concern at this point? If you don’t have more than $200 extra at the end of the month, please don’t invest in real estate. It’s not for you, you’ll get burned. My point is that these ^ numbers are nonsensical.

Let’s address the boogyman of the article: 20% down payment. Are you scared? It’s referenced at least five times, which is weird, considering she represents the WSJ and the average down payment in the US is 6%. I was making a lousy 38k when I bought my first house with a credit score of 620, it cost me about 5k. Yes, I’m in St. Paul, not Seattle. I still only hear excuses.

She then tells a tale of her parents, living in the good old days of 1980, buying a starter home in Decatur, GA with 22k down (adjusted for inflation). According to RedFin: the average home price in Decatur is currently 223k. Her parents' house might (unlikely but perhaps) be attainable TODAY for a measly 8k with an FHA loan! Regardless of the actual numbers, I think millennial home ownership is probably alive and well in ol' Decatur, as starter-home barrier to entry is under 10k.

The Wall Street Journal writer then suggests that we "consider" a Roth IRA. How about if you do ANYTHING short of lighting your money on FIRE you will max out that Roth IRA, you will eat ramen every Thursday before payday to hit that max, no excuses, you spend more on ubers in a year than the 6k the government lets you invest tax free, are you hearing me?

My main gripe with this article is the order in which it’s structured. IF it began with showing readers the best grad school choices to see financial returns, cited the attorney as a cautionary tale of bad financial planning, and then used relevant data on down payment/mortgage qualification, rather than “I told my mom I might need 20% for a house and she just couldn’t literally even”, I would consider it an excellent read.

The article isn’t 100% bogus. She’s got tons of great data points on the discrepancies between current cost of living ratios and those of our parents, but who doesn’t already know this? Yes, the thesis is correct: we need to look at money through a different lens than our parents did. The trouble with these statistics is that people turn them into excuses. The author reminds us that the median home price in 1979 was 68k less than today. Ok, so an extra $300 on a mortgage payment… Airbnb didn’t exist in 1979, either.

She makes an argument for viewing education as a financial investment that must result in direct gains to the student, something our attorney friend may have forgotten. Some good advice is given, comparing expensive graduate programs to their cheaper online substitutes. I’m getting off track, please don’t take educational advice from the guy who dropped out of three (three?!) community colleges, I’m here to talk about real estate!

Alright, no more negativity. I am biased and also blessed. I enjoyed many debt-free years of work in my mid 20s (it’s hard to rack up student loan debt when you can’t even get into a real college) and was able to save. I worked as a server, lived in cheap apartments, and always had plenty of extra dough. I don’t have kids, or a disability, and my family is supportive. I don’t know the backstory of the author or her subject; I’m simply using their arguments to illustrate a point: it’s all about perspective.

I hang out with a lot of realtors/investors/entrepreneurs. We hear things differently, we have optimism. When we hear “the median home now sells for four times the median income”, we envision finding a free place to live for 4 years, saving every dime, and buying a home outright. Realistic? Maybe not for most people, but that’s not entirely the point. It’s a mindset adjustment that leads to building wealth.

I heard something great on the Biggerpockets podcast the other day: getting pre-approved for a home loan is like getting a checkup at the doctor. You don’t have to buy, but it’s nice to know your financial health. Yes, your credit score will drop 5 points for a few months, you’ll survive. There’s nothing wrong with renting, and it makes sense for many people. Just don’t let articles like this make the decision for you.

Julia Carpenter, if you’re reading this, let a realtor buy you coffee sometime. We’d love to help!

-Adam Tafel

Upside Property Sales 4.9108 Reviews
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
6y

I had about $100k in debt soon after I got out of school. I paid it all off before I was 30, without making over $70k a year, and that salary only when close to 30. I think my first job was about $30k at age 23. 

I lived cheaply, had roommates, got side hustles. I didnt spend $50 on avocado toast, instead I went to cheap happy hours. All while living in 2 of the more expensive cities of Boston and DC. Paid it all off and saved for my first rentals. 

We dont have a student loan crisis....we have a personal finance, spending, and consumerism crisis.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    It was a great critique and I wholeheartedly agree with the points most people on here made especially what Caleb said “ life is what you make it “ how true that statement is ! 

    As far as practical application and how this plays out in my world . Fortunately for me My millennial tenants won’t be reading the Wall Street journal articles about their plight in society  ( they likely read “hustler” or the national enquirer)

    I trust they will continue To invest in Phillip Morris and anhueser Busch stock and I will continue to collect their  rent regardless of what the feds say,the rates do ..or what the Dow Jones average does or what some snooty douche Millennials  in California cry about 

  • Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Adam Tafel

    Another poor millennial can’t read the article because he can’t afford the subscription fee. Darn...

  • Adam TafelBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 570 posts · 393 votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock did you read the article? Nothing about it would offend anyone. The authors point was that millennial home-buyers have the odds stacked against them, to which I disagree. No one getting bashed here, just a difference of opinion.

    Upside Property Sales 4.9108 Reviews
  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 765 votes
    6y

    Student loan debt should be dischargeable in BK.  Effectively risk-free 7% lending just continues to fuel idiotic inflation in the price of college.  Making the underwriters actually do their jobs and assess the feasibility of payback based on potential future earnings would bring some much-needed common sense back into the system.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    I have a millennial that I rent to . he went to college and has about $100k in debt . he got a sociology degree . He has the cool car , cool clothes and has a job paying $40K a year and cant understand why he is broke and cant get ahead . he asked me how I did it .  I told him I didnt go to college , I worked , i saved , I hustled , And i will stop and bend over to pick up a penny 

  • Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    6y

    Millennials are not the first generation to sing

    I want it all and I want it now!

    LOL.

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y

    @Adam Tafel@Adam Tafel

    @Victor S.

    Adam you hit most of my issues with the article except for one that Victor pointed out.   In 1989, the year used for the RE price comparison, the interest rate was over 10% or nearly 3 times higher than it is today.  In the 1980 to 1999 year window discussed the interest rate was always over 7% and more than half those years it was over 10%.

    In reality, excluding higher appreciation markets, the cost to purchase a financed home today is less than it was in 1989 (the year used in the article) when accounting for the interest rate.  This is likely true of virtually the entire Midwest and South East.

    So not only did they use a high cost housing market, expensive education/high student debt, 80% LTV when 95% LTV is possible, they totally ignored the effect of the higher interest rate of the previous generation.

    If I wanted to write an article on how much cheaper housing is today than it was for the previous generation, I would cherry pick a city like Detroit that has historically minimal appreciation, finance both at 95% LTV and cherry pick the year at 1980 or 1981 with an interest rate above 15% (compared to ~3.7% today). My article would of course be biased just as the article referenced is with its cherry picked data and the total absence of interest rate in the affordability equation (very convenient to not include it).

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    The victim mentality paralyzes people (including me on occasion).

  • Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    6y

    If I wanted to write an article on how much cheaper housing is today than it was for the previous generation

    If housing is cheap, why are there so many homeless?

    They are not all "bums" to use an old term.

    OK I know, easy to ask, but no good answer.

  • Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    We had these sob stories in my day, too, back when Gen. X was coming of age. Oh, so hard...so hard to make a buck in this world. So unfair. I believed it, too. I was raised on this brain gunk. I didn't believe that 83% of millionaires get there in one generation. What's the first rule of life? Have rich parents. I thought that was how it was.

    Then I read The Millionaire Next Door. Then I started living it. I keep getting closer to being it. Suddenly, an impossible puzzle came apart in my hands. But all my friends...they had to have the house and the car and the aspirational lifestyle. They had to be middle class, shooting for upper middle class.

    One of my closest friends from college is a tech guy who lives in an $800K house. I met him in state school. I know his parents. He grew up just as broke as me, ate government cheese, always made fun of Boomer pretensions. I reach into my mailbox today and find a Christmas card from him. Professional photoshoot of his kids and wife, custom card pattern and printing. Must have cost a fortune to send me and 200 other people a card on Christmas. They're all wearing matching scarves. Really? Really, dude? That's how you salt it away?

    This guy's like a brother. I would much rather know he's built an unassailable financial position for himself and his family than get that card. Generational wealth for his kids. The power to establish a philanthropic legacy. But what I get is a card, and that card fuels my determination to be there when the wolf comes snarling to his door, as it comes to all our doors.

     You must not have read "The Millionaire Next Door" very closely. Kids who get financial gifts and inheritances don't do as well as those that don't. Why don't you ask Warren Buffet or another (smart) billionaire how much they plan to leave their children? I fully support your friend spending his money now on whatever he wants. It's his money, not his kids. Statistically, they will be better off for it.

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock exactly Joe, well said and thanks for saying it. Millennial-bashing is a popular sport these days, and so easy to do but in my opinion people tend to confuse a generational cohort with a stage of life. Pretty much every generation since the genesis of the concept of generations got negatively stereotyped when they were in their 20’s because that’s the age of rebellion that rocks the boat, and it’s easy for older people to label them as making bad decisions, being entitled, using half-baked principles and idealism as excuses not to work, etc. If you asked someone from the “Greatest Generation” about Boomers in the 60’s they would say, “Oh, those lazy hippies will never amount to anything, all they want to do is practice free love, complain about life and protest the war, grow their hair out, smoke their weed, drop their acid, turn on, tune out and drop out at Woodstock with their damn electric guitars that are breaking their ears and watching the Boob tube that’s rotting their brains, they’re so self centered and selfish and entitled, they don’t want to work an honest job like they should, they’re all lousy naval-gazing losers.” But Boomers grew up, got jobs, had kids and started complaining about their kids (Gen X): “All they want to do is watch MTV, listen to punk rock, play Atari, the divorce rate and afternoon television is turning them into latchkey kids that will have all kinds of mental deficiencies, they’re so entitled and lazy and self centered, they’re all going to end up either socially-inept psychos or cynical disaffected slackers, addicted to crack and with AIDs, America is going straight down the tubes”. Many of the criticisms and judgements I hear about millennials today just comes across like old people complaining about young people, same as it ever was. In order to actually compare generations we have to compare them when they were the same age, we can’t hold people in their 20’s to the standards of old people. Millennials will grow up and stop being such young punks eventually, just like previous generations did. The median net worth for those crazy hippy Boomers is now over $1M, Gen X grew up and is doing fine too, Millenials will be fine. Being young is just the time when we make bad decisions and cause our parents to worry (I know I did).

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Adam Tafel:

    @Joe Splitrock Splitrock did you read the article? Nothing about it would offend anyone. The authors point was that millennial home-buyers have the odds stacked against them, to which I disagree. No one getting bashed here, just a difference of opinion.

    I think Joe was speaking more to the larger phenomenon of millennials being stereotyped inaccurately, maybe not super specific to this article itself but more related to typical comments about millennials, which I agree with Joe on, a lot of them just sound like old people complaining about young people.  

  • Lender · Lewis, CO · Member since 2017 · 218 posts · 159 votes
    6y

    One word... Budgeting.

    I've reviewed somewhere around 7,000 credit reports with the corresponding conversations that go with each one.

    People don't budget. They weren't taught. Blame highschool, their parents, themselves, or whoever. Budgeting is the single biggest factor in taking a step to the next level of wealth

  • Rental Property Investor · Chubbuck, ID · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 466 votes
    6y

    It is tough to save money to buy a house. It doesn’t matter what generation you are but the amount of consumer debt someone has compared to their income can definitely affect it. Education is the biggest problem. Kids don’t understand how how interest accrues on student loans and they just assume they will make 6 figures tight out of college. A lot end up in an income repayment plan and their payments don’t even cover the accrued interest of the loan and their balance grows instead of being paid down. A lot of in investors are at fault to because we bought up all the low cost sfh that many 1st time buyers could afford but they are now rental properties instead of owner occupied.

  • Real Estate Agent · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 117 posts · 59 votes
    6y

    @Mike Dymski Couldn’t agree more. We often seek comfort in those self-limiting beliefs because confronting them usually requires some sort of change that we’d rather not make. It’s much easier to live as if the deck’s stacked against us and there’s nothing we can do than rise above challenging circumstances and overcome them.

    I live in Portland and I hear excuses all the time for why it’s impossible to buy a house here. These are really just thinly-veiled self-limiting beliefs that prevent people from building wealth. But the entire city with restaurants, bars and coffee shops on nearly every street depends on wealth being distributed away from savings accounts and assets and into consumer spending.

  • Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Craig Jeppesen:

    It is tough to save money to buy a house. It doesn’t matter what generation you are but the amount of consumer debt someone has compared to their income can definitely affect it. Education is the biggest problem. Kids don’t understand how how interest accrues on student loans and they just assume they will make 6 figures tight out of college. A lot end up in an income repayment plan and their payments don’t even cover the accrued interest of the loan and their balance grows instead of being paid down. A lot of in investors are at fault to because we bought up all the low cost sfh that many 1st time buyers could afford but they are now rental properties instead of owner occupied.

    I do not believe that you can save or budget your way to wealth.  Most of the people doing that are still listening to Dave Ramsey, squarely in the lower-middle class. It takes the same amount of mental energy and planning to save $1K a month as learning to make an extra $3K a month.. guess which one results in a worse quality of life? ;)

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Dan H.:

    @Adam Tafel@Adam Tafel

    @Victor S.

    Adam you hit most of my issues with the article except for one that Victor pointed out.   In 1989, the year used for the RE price comparison, the interest rate was over 10% or nearly 3 times higher than it is today.  In the 1980 to 1999 year window discussed the interest rate was always over 7% and more than half those years it was over 10%.

    In reality, excluding higher appreciation markets, the cost to purchase a financed home today is less than it was in 1989 (the year used in the article) when accounting for the interest rate.  This is likely true of virtually the entire Midwest and South East.

    So not only did they use a high cost housing market, expensive education/high student debt, 80% LTV when 95% LTV is possible, they totally ignored the effect of the higher interest rate of the previous generation.

    If I wanted to write an article on how much cheaper housing is today than it was for the previous generation, I would cherry pick a city like Detroit that has historically minimal appreciation, finance both at 95% LTV and cherry pick the year at 1980 or 1981 with an interest rate above 15% (compared to ~3.7% today). My article would of course be biased just as the article referenced is with its cherry picked data and the total absence of interest rate in the affordability equation (very convenient to not include it).

    Dan this is very true  many parts of the US housing peaked in the late 80s and never returned  then peaked like I Detroit in about 2004 ish then crashed and has not come back to those highs.. I remember when I first started funding turn key operators my first one was in Detroit.

    houses that were rentals were selling for 100 to 150k and renting for what they rent for today  800 to 1200 bucks that was 03 to 05 ish by 2010 they were 30k.. to 60k  to worth nothing in certain areas which is well documented.. And we see this so much when we still today can buy rentals in these areas for under 100k.. and those houses would cost more to replace than you can buy them for.. 

    We all wonder why folks pay 900 rent on a 70k house when they could buy it and be all in for less than 500 a month ???  

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    We all wonder why folks pay 900 rent on a 70k house when they could buy it and be all in for less than 500 a month ???  

    Jay, in Western PA, I have people paying me $700 rent on a $30K house. And when you bring it up to them, they sit up and stare at you: "So are you trying to kick me out?"

    I think a lot of people are afraid, especially in aging properties like what we have here, of something going catastrophically wrong with their houses. They are literally terrified of their own homes. They are terrified of unexpected expenses they can't budget for, of smaller problems becoming bigger and bigger problems that they can't handle, of the responsibility of doing regular maintenance and the task of learning how to do it, of the complexities of getting a mortgage and dealing with interest rates and payments, and all in all, "they can't even."

    Not coincidentally, they all drive late-model cars and they always try to buy new. These are not by any stretch of the imagination conceited people obsessed with social status (at least no more than usual). They're terrified of, again, something going catastrophically wrong in this complicated machine they don't understand. Getting some sudden bill in the mail that will break them.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    We all wonder why folks pay 900 rent on a 70k house when they could buy it and be all in for less than 500 a month ???  

    Jay, in Western PA, I have people paying me $700 rent on a $30K house. And when you bring it up to them, they sit up and stare at you: "So are you trying to kick me out?"

    I think a lot of people are afraid, especially in aging properties like what we have here, of something going catastrophically wrong with their houses. They are literally terrified of their own homes. They are terrified of unexpected expenses they can't budget for, of smaller problems becoming bigger and bigger problems that they can't handle, of the responsibility of doing regular maintenance and the task of learning how to do it, of the complexities of getting a mortgage and dealing with interest rates and payments, and all in all, "they can't even."

    Not coincidentally, they all drive late-model cars and they always try to buy new. These are not by any stretch of the imagination conceited people obsessed with social status (at least no more than usual). They're terrified of, again, something going catastrophically wrong in this complicated machine they don't understand. Getting some sudden bill in the mail that will break them.

    the desire for home ownership is very regional I get that..  like in the bay Area real estate home ownership is number one conversation and number one goal for virtually anyone.. because they know if they can get a home and get it paid for that one home alone will be their retirement.. 

  • San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 12 votes
    6y

    @Adam Tafel

    I think the problem with the article and most of the comments here is how humans have so much trouble thinking about things in a macro sense. Because they think they need to personalize the story, journalists find individuals to write about. Then the critics come in with individual advice or anecdotes of success (“get the right job”, “budget better”, “don’t eat avocados”).

    In micro we can talk about better decisions people can make till the cows come home and it won’t make a dent. Because our problems as a nation are macro, our solutions need to be macro. There have been people making bad decisions in EVERY generation and people making good decisions in every generation.

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

     I was driving my beater/project car to work yesterday, since the weather was nice. I was half a mile away when my transmission decided to throw in the towel (it could only take so much abuse of my powershifting), and I was left with no gears and half a mile walk to work lol I was actually excited to tear into it (it needed a rebuild, anyway) and see what grenaded. Pulled that sucker out last night, but still have no idea what went wrong. Off to the shop it goes haha No avocado toast for me this month...

  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    The timing of this is perfect because the latest BP Podcast that came out yesterday with @David Greene Has some fantastic examples of what someone can do from a creative standpoint that can enable them to buy a house. 

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Victor S.:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

     I was driving my beater/project car to work yesterday, since the weather was nice. I was half a mile away when my transmission decided to throw in the towel (it could only take so much abuse of my powershifting), and I was left with no gears and half a mile walk to work lol I was actually excited to tear into it (it needed a rebuild, anyway) and see what grenaded. Pulled that sucker out last night, but still have no idea what went wrong. Off to the shop it goes haha No avocado toast for me this month...

    I eat lots of avocados when Aldi runs a 50-cent special on them. Love me some avocados.

  • Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Zero sympathy for the people in these stories.

    I have no college education, no student loan debt, basically a self taught remodeling contractor (self employed 16 years now). I’ve owned homes since I’m 24 with not a penny of help from anyone.

    They chose their career and education paths, and had to know the debt that would be incurred.

    And you can still buy houses for $60-80k here, worth double after fixed up. So move your butts from Seattle and buy yourself 5x the house for 1/2 the $ elsewhere. I don’t know what lawyers get in Seattle, but by me they are $275-350/hour. I can’t imagine Seattle is $600 to make it worth living there.

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    We all wonder why folks pay 900 rent on a 70k house when they could buy it and be all in for less than 500 a month ???  

    Jay, in Western PA, I have people paying me $700 rent on a $30K house. And when you bring it up to them, they sit up and stare at you: "So are you trying to kick me out?"

    I think a lot of people are afraid, especially in aging properties like what we have here, of something going catastrophically wrong with their houses. They are literally terrified of their own homes. They are terrified of unexpected expenses they can't budget for, of smaller problems becoming bigger and bigger problems that they can't handle, of the responsibility of doing regular maintenance and the task of learning how to do it, of the complexities of getting a mortgage and dealing with interest rates and payments, and all in all, "they can't even."

    Not coincidentally, they all drive late-model cars and they always try to buy new. These are not by any stretch of the imagination conceited people obsessed with social status (at least no more than usual). They're terrified of, again, something going catastrophically wrong in this complicated machine they don't understand. Getting some sudden bill in the mail that will break them.

    the desire for home ownership is very regional I get that..  like in the bay Area real estate home ownership is number one conversation and number one goal for virtually anyone.. because they know if they can get a home and get it paid for that one home alone will be their retirement.. 

    And because they know their parents did it there's an expectation that they should be able to do it, just like everyone here grew up in union steelworker families and then the mills died and the union jobs disappeared and there are still hundreds of thousands of people here who believe steel can make an American comeback and Pittsburgh will once again have its traditional reason to exist as a major American city. AH DUZERVE MAH UNION JAWB!!!

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