Fix-n-Flip Gone Wrong

Fix-n-Flip Gone Wrong

Rental Property Investor · Laconia, NH · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 51 votes

Here is brief story about my first flip.  

My name is Dakota Coburn and I decided a few years ago that becoming a real estate investor was the right career path.  I spent 12 month researching, reading, analyzing, going to seminars and even paying for a mentor, which I do not entirely feel like was a waste but I do not recommend it unless you really know what you are doing. Bigger Pockets as well as a few other sites offer everything needed for new investors that the mentors do, and they are all way over priced and usually a scam. 

Anyway on to the deal.  Denver Property just outside of Cherry Creek. We bought the property from a wholesaler with an estimated return of $50k profit and an estimated rehab of $105k which quickly turned into closer to $130k.  We had a time line of three months to do the rehab and get it back on the market in Sept. So we went with a hard money loan and raised $110k from investors. In this deal I had my brother and two friends all very interested in giving flipping a try. 

Side note this was the 10th property I had made in offer on during the course of last spring and I had analyzed another 100. So I felt like we had a good deal when we found this property for $445k, adn we were looking at a minimum ARV of $615k.

The problems started right off the bat when we lost our first lender due to low Appraisal, so we had to rush and find a second and got charged an arm and a leg from this lender, but we felt we had a great deal and moved forward. 

Next we ditched our GC week one when is estimate for the work was $30k more then we had budgeted. So we decided we could GC it ourselves. 

Asbestos came up on inspection and put us 10 days behind right off the bat for abatement period. Which gave us time to find a new contractor.  Our first plumber gave us a low ball quote then robbed us of $3500, and we lost two weeks trying to find a new plumber.  Our electrician, did decent work but at a snails pace, and decided through one of our partners he was capable of doing the plumbing, which we found out way down the road that he never pulled permits, wasn't licence and did none of the work to code. So we had an electrician doing his work plus plumbing, dumb, a GC that was really just a carpenter, and a guy doing our new load carrying beam opening up the floor plan, that was nothing more then a great wood worker and never followed the plans from the structural engineer to secure the beam properly. 

So we did all the work and spent $150k on rehab about ($20k over budget), and we listed two weeks after our goal date.  All in all we felt like things were going really well.  Meanwhile I had been living out of state and not watching the progress on a daily basis, come to find out a TON of little details got left unfinished or ignored and all the initial hype of the listing was received with feedback of half *** work. I was confused until I was finally able to take a trip back to CO to walk the property and see light fixtures not cut in right, and trim unfinished, etc.  We listed at the high end of the market at $700k and quickly dropped to $685, then $675.  We ended up going under contract at $615 to find out that permits on the property were never closed and the laundry list of **** that the inspector wouldn't pass would cost about $20k.  

Now we have lost two buyers that pulled out due to the open permits and the inability to close the permits on our end. We are at the point of default with our lender and we are negotiating with them to not go into foreclosure. 

And to top it all off one of the silent investors is threatening to sue for his losses. 

All the fun of a first time flipper. Any suggestions on how to survive this? 

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Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
6y

Half a million dollar first flip, major renovation, totally hands off with no construction experience, no previous relationships, out of state supervision, partners without clear roles. Yeah, it's not Monopoly money, and you very much set yourself up for this, with the help of whatever lowlife "mentored" into getting burned this bad. Take the gut punch and regather. Thanks for posting, you've done the community here a service.

Take out a loan on your house or whatever reserves you have and get it done.

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  • San Antonio, TX · Member since 2019 · 930 posts · 836 votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn

    Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s gotta be tough. If I may ask, what drew you to that house in that market.

  • Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes
    6y

    There was absolutely no juice in this from the start, even if the OP hit his projections. Selling at 615k he'd be lucky to walk with 585k, and that's keeping commissions really tight paying a low rate for the listing. 445k acquisition and 105k estimated rehab equate to a 35k profit if everything went exactly according to plan (and it never does). Going into a deal with a 6.3% projected profit margin is just asking to take a beating. How was this ever supposed to work?

  • Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn

    First flip, no experience, and you spent $445k just on the house?! Oof.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Junction, CO · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 736 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed I don't know which HML you are using but ask them if they have other borrowers (with a good track record) who might be interested in this project and if they will roll your loan to them... give up the idea that you might pocket any money. It's Denver - I'd be throwing it out there all over the place - BP, Craigslist, FB Marketplace, Zillow, etc. In that hot market somewhere there is someone...

  • Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn I think you and the boys are going to have to take 401k loans, or hardship withdrawals and climb out of this mess. Perhaps getting someone on a lease option could help you out if you can’t get it sold, so at least you have some money coming in. I feel for you brother. All I can say is anyone who has ever made it big, usually has some horrible story for a business disaster they suffered. I hope this is the biggest loss you suffer. Good luck.

  • Rental Property Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2017 · 517 posts · 772 votes
    6y

    Sorry to hear about this Dakota. I'm sure you're losing a lot of sleep, finding it hard to eat sometimes, and worried the 'worst case scenario' will play it. 

    Just know that it won't. You already got a lot of feedback on what you did wrong, so no need to pile on. You'll find a way out, just don't bury your head. Cold call whomever you need to to help you out to get it done. Keep going.

  • Rental Property Investor · Shakopee, MN · Member since 2015 · 985 posts · 374 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed

    Any chance you could rent out the house to help recoup some of the costs?  Or possibly do a lease option?  Neither is a fix all, but the property sitting empty is going to cost you extra money each month.

    I wish you the best of luck and hope you find a resolution to this situation.

  • Member since 2019 · 172 posts · 93 votes
    6y

    Did you try to sell as is at a price that just barely pays off your obligations?  With you being out of state it will be tough to properly and efficiently finish this and obviously you dont want to keep throwing good money after bad.

  • Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2016 · 860 posts · 324 votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn

    Sorry to hear, this Sucks!!!

    Few things.....why would you ever choose for your first flip to be out of state?.....big mistake in my opinion. Prior to the property being listed and paying all your subs why was no walk through done for inspection/punch list? Your first appraisal came in low and the lender backed out, this is a red flag and perhaps you were a little unrealistic in resale value. You said you had paid a mentor, where were they in all of this? After all you PAID a MENTOR???? I truly believe that the education comes in the field and on the job, not from mentors or seminars.

    I don’t mean to be so blunt, but this is absolutely undeniable terrible execution on your part.

    Don’t get me wrong...we’ve all messed up, but this is as poor as it gets.

    It almost seems like you thought this would be easy and require no oversight and would sell in a day for a record price and all the subs would be perfectly behaved and you’d barely have to do anything because after all you don’t live nearby......this sounds like a case of watching too much HGTV

    I am very sorry your going through this, it really sucks. We’ve all had things go wrong, but you can’t expect to be successful by going about things this way.

    I hope you recover, I hope your investors are made whole, I hope no relationships are lost. This is a hard lesson

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2014 · 173 posts · 121 votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn

    That’s flipping. A constant revolving door of problem and solution.

    Literally all you can do is mitigate risk, don’t lie to yourself on costs, use conservative sale numbers

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Thank you so much for posting. For my two cents, the most valuable thing at stake is your credit.

    I'm not going to add anything else other than I'm here to give you a hug and let you know you will survive this.

  • Contractor · Eureka, CA · Member since 2015 · 100 posts · 64 votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn Thanks for sharing your story, no need for me to dogpile what others have said..but i think if this were me the toughest part to reckon with would be bringing other peoples money into it. Of course if it's all your own money, it is at least that much more bearable to deal with.

    Even still.. i hope you are okay mentally and emotionally, I can only imagine the stress. Take care of yourself and keep on! But with lessons learned.

  • Real Estate Agent · Naperville, IL · Member since 2014 · 196 posts · 130 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed

    I took a gander at your listing.  Is it my eyes or is the drywall work in the lower super patchy? It looks super bumpy/uneven almost like there was water damage at some point with a bad patch job.  For a flip, it needs to visibly look perfect.  Maybe it is just my eyes or my screen. 

  • Contractor · Eureka, CA · Member since 2015 · 100 posts · 64 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed 's very creative suggestion with the contractor coming in to hit your market-ready punch list on their own dime in exchange for profits. If someone came to me with that - and after making my own assurances on those numbers - I would definitely consider it... 

  • Property Manager · Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2020 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    My philosophy is your personal brand is first and foremost. However you can, get it done and get it done right. Blog your progress and what you've gone through. Make it a learning experience for others. Giving back will ease some of the pain and will showcase your integrity to people in your network.

  • Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joseph Walsh:

    Ouch.  One question, did the $105k include a contingency?  If not, you were only over ~23-24% (@130k), which is a bit high, but not unreasonable and fairly close to the typical 20% contingency for all but the most experienced.  Of course, the rest spiraled and ended up much over.  Sorry for you expensive learning experience, but thanks for sharing with the rest of us so we might learn from it.

     He was working on a 10% margin... 25% of rehab budget overage was enough to stick the deal. And honestly I'm not even sure they had 10 percent. I don't see commissions in that number... 

    445k purchase

    105k rehab

    550 total

    6 percent commission is like 38k

    that leaves 27k on 615k a 5 percent return 

    i don't know where he analyzed 100 deals and couldn't find one better... the 110k of investor money could have made that return without the hard money added to it... I'm only laying this out because everyone else is only treating this as a logistical error. I think it was dead from the gate. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Laconia, NH · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Shane H. Our initial numbers were a sale of $685-700 based on the high end comps.  Every step of the way we tried to make the decisions to take the property to the high end.  Which was a huge mistake.  We did only have 10-15% margin in the deal from jump.  So from the get go it was probably a bad deal in retrospect.  We were naive and at the time we closed on the deal we had a contractor on our side and he was locked into the deal.  Firing him was the biggest mistake.  

    Lots of lessons learned here. @Zack Thiesen I do not keep notifications on or I would never sleep. I appreciate the feedback.  @Michael Ealy thank you for your suggestions these are really great ideas.  We are doing everything we can to find someone to help take this on and finish the deal.  

    I can't respond to everyone here, but again thank you for all your input.  I posted this to share how a partnership can be tough. Things go wrong.  We made every mistake in the book.  I will post again when we sell and give a recap of how we survived or failed even more miserably. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Laconia, NH · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Mayer M. I was living in CO, and I had formed a solid network of real estate minded people I thought. I felt as though we had bought a good deal. Either way doing flips are not my main agenda and it was a mistake. I will only be a BRRRR investor going forward.

    Here is the listing if anyone cares to look at it. I will be posting on marketplace as well. 



    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5700-E-Iowa-Ave-Denver-CO-80224/13408912_zpid/?

  • Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2016 · 860 posts · 324 votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn

    I think you’re making a rash decision saying on brrrs going forward as you haven’t experienced that yet. I like the mix of flips and rentals.

    Just have to put in the time to build your network

  • Rental Property Investor · Laconia, NH · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Mayer M. I am currently finishing up my first BRRRR in NH and will be profiting $600-700/ month on a three unit. With $60k invested. I will not completely swear off flips, I just like the cash flow potential instead of the volatility of hoping a flip sells.

  • Rental Property Investor · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 29 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Charlie DiLisio can you explain how to got to $200k in personal credit? Is it just credit cards? T I'm trying to pick a smart path for funding, please pm me with info if you can 😊

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Account Closed,

    Well, hindsight is always 20/20, so I'll first offer that you may want to find a partner who can come in and help you fix the issues so you can get your silent investor taken care of and get this turkey sold.

    That said, you've already lost enough on this deal to have paid twice for the education which could have helped you avoid the issues and actually turn a profit.

    One of your first mistakes was buying this deal from a wholesaler, closely followed by your second mistake: not verifying the rehab estimate before closing on the purchase of the contract. Wholesalers almost always under-estimate the rehab costs and offer too much when they write the contract just to get the offer accepted.

    My $0.02 ...

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Lais Keese:

    @Charlie DiLisio can you explain how to got to $200k in personal credit? Is it just credit cards? T I'm trying to pick a smart path for funding, please pm me with info if you can 😊

    Have a look at GetFundedOnline.com - GoGFO.com, for short - and see what they can do for you. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I took a look at the listing. Number 1, I assume a lot of the total SF of the house is in the basement, including some of the bed and baths (at least 1 of each correct)? This is probably one issue being that basement SF is not as desirable as main level SF.

    I also agree with the other poster, something looks wrong in those basement photos. The walls look a mess, there appears to be little to no electrical outlets, and some rooms have exposed wiring/conduit at the wall/ceiling? Hard to argue with the potential buyers on an originally $700k listed house. That looks like some sloppy work and not a premium. Since dropping to $580k has anything happened with showings or offers?

  • Rental Property Investor · Twin Cities, MN · Member since 2019 · 122 posts · 150 votes
    6y

    @Dakota Coburn

    You can recover from this, but in the future, flip in your backyard. I don't do out of state flips, the situations can be so dynamic with remodels, I believe you need to be able to visit them almost daily - especially early in your career.

    Even those who have established flipping networks can quickly derail without oversight.

    Out of state investing can be lucrative ‐ but get established&networked and build your cash reserves first.

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