Owner Occupied blues in pricey northern New Jersey

Owner Occupied blues in pricey northern New Jersey

NJ · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 0 votes

My partner and I are 25yo, have up to 80k saved up for a down payment and make a combined $150k/year (conservatively, not counting my 2nd job); no kids. Currently we live with parents.

We're looking to buy our first property and we figured a multi-family would be a good investment. However, the only "deals" in the NJ area seem to be in Newark, Irvington, Paterson or other areas we'd rather not live.

Towns with great schools and a great neighborhood are have very few multi-families available and the few we've looked at are negative cashflow due to high purchase price and property taxes.

We've talked to our realtor about REOs and short sales but so far he hasn't found us anything.

We've explored cheaper towns bordering high crime areas and although we can find houses in the $200-300k range, taxes and lower rent prices make these properties barely positive. They're still in mildly sketchy areas to boot.

The best we've done so far is about $100 positive cashflow per month (if we were not living there) in a neighborhood we really like. However the house is at our max budget at $399k.

What should we do? We love Jersey, but living here can be such a money pit.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    13y

    I think you're finding a common situation. Your criteria for a place to live are different from a property you would buy as a rental. To me, these are two entirely separate purchases. Sometimes its possible to compromise on the criteria for one or both purchases and find something that sort of works for both. Throw in a geographical constraint, though, and you may well find nothing the even sort of works.

    IMHO, a residence is nothing but an expensive doo-dad. Its not an investment. It can be cheaper than paying rent. But a realistic assessment that includes all the costs associated with owning a residence will almost always end up that it still costs you something to live there.

    Now, a residence can be a nice savings plan. If you buy it, live there and pay it off. If you move every few years, it can be really expensive because the transaction costs are so high. In this case, renting can very often be a much cheaper alternative. And it give you more flexibility.

    A rental, OTOH, should produce income. Getting a 10% cash on cash return for a rental is doing pretty good. By that I'm referring to the cash flow generated from the rental. I'm not including the principle paydown that will eventually give you a free and clear asset that's generating a much high return on the initial investment and that could be sold for a nice chunk of cash. So, with $80K to invest expecting an annual return of $8000 is in the right ball park.

    So, I would consider separating the two purchases. For your residence, find something that meets your needs in an area you like. As with many purchases, spending less may be the better choice than spending more. Do the math. Renting may well be a cheaper choice. For your investment, find something that is profitable. That may mean an area where you wouldn't choose to live.

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    I'm going to piggy back on what @Jon Holdman said above.

    I'm in a similar sort of situation, I live in San Diego and things out here just don't cash flow well if at all. For myself I choose to rent out here and invest out of state where the numbers do work. I would absolutely love to own my own home as I like to improve a property, make it my own and have a pride of ownership. But out here that comes at a cost of actually receiving a positive monthly return, so I choose to forgo that for now. At some point I may very well buy a place to live in, but it will be with the same sense of if I bought a car, it isn't to make money it will be to fulfill a personal desire, nothing more.

    Look at it this way, if you invested that 80K somewhere else and it makes you 8-10K a year in cash flow then it could essentially be paying(or subsidising) for your rent in NJ. That may be the best you can do with the geographic constraints you're subject to currently.

  • Darren SagerPro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    @Jessica W. its of my opinion that you don't have the right realtor or your level of expectations is higher than your budget however I'm leaning highly towards your realtor.

    NJ has plenty of homes in your price range in decent neighborhoods ready to be purchased however they may not be where you are currently living. When I first started investing in multifamily homes in 1998 I was looking in Bergen County because that's where I grew up. I was looking for a two family I could live on one side and rent out the other and the numbers needed to work whether or not I was living in it. I couldn't find anything in Bergen so I changed my focus to Essex County. I wound up purchasing my first two family walking distance to the mid-town direct train station in Maplewood and it was one of my best investments I ever made. There's good opportunity in that area and surrounding towns still today. If you're looking to purchase a two family in a town like Millburn-Short Hills you will never get a 10% rate of return on your money however you'll always have demand for that housing since the schools are so good.

  • Bayonne, NJ · Member since 2013 · 90 posts · 27 votes
    13y

    Have you tried looking in Bayonne? That's where I live, tons of multi families and many nice blocks. A lot of houses in the 200 range.

    However, if you plunk down 250 for a home, you might want a three family to rent out two units if you want to cashflow. I bought a small two family (1br and a 2br) and I finished the basement and that is where I live. So I legally live with my first floor tenant. No big deal because I cash flow $260 a month now (after appealing my taxes)

    Be careful around hudson county taxes are high, but I can refer you to my tax attorney who appealed my taxes - got them lowered $2500 - I paid him $500 to do it. @Jessica W.

  • Rehabber · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 2 votes
    13y
    Jessica W. what about a place like Morristown? You stated you and your partner are 25 yo - I had a lot of friends in that age group who used to live there who loved it. As far as pricing goes, I'm really not familiar with that market at all, so unfortunately i'm no help there. But I'd imagine they have a fairly large inventory of multi-families.
  • NJ · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    @Jon Holdman @Matt Devincenzo Thanks guys. I never thought about renting if I had the money to buy, but this may actually make sense.

    @Darren Sager I know.. I live pretty close to Bergen County and was originally looking in towns like Montclair, Caldwell, and Verona. Now I'm thinking about Clifton and Bloomfield. I actually work very close to Maplewood and like the town.. but I kind of hate my job so I'm afraid if I move too close, I will be less motivated to leave :\

    @Erik Pedersen We don't commute to the city so we didn't really look at Bayonne. I do like the idea of converting a 2 family into a 3 family though. If you don't mind me asking, how much was your house and how much did it cost you to finish the basement?

    @Account Closed Love the Morristown area but houses there are like $250-350k + they need major renovation. We've looked there but dunno if we can handle that kind of reno.

  • Darren SagerPro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    @Jessica W. Your investment in real estate is separate from your job. If you happen to find a place close to work that's good. Just don't rule it out because it may make you stay at the job longer. A lot of people move from Brooklyn to Maplewood. There's always demand for housing there. A company purchased the old police station and built a 40 unit apartment building there. Two bed units go as high as $3750 if I'm correct for 1100 sq feet. That apartment building is going to create more demand for rentals since Maplewood was never seen as a rental destination. It now will be. Other landlords in the area have the same thought. If you want an up and coming area consider Garwood and Cranford. Rents are average however when the mid-town direct train comes on line those markets will take off. You can find some two families there. I know I've looked.

    @Account Closed Morristown flooded their market with places to live in the past few years near the train station. In my opinion its hurt rentals there. It was a massive project. They added too much inventory when the market was hot. Similar to places like Phoenix, Miami, etc.

  • Rehabber · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 2 votes
    13y

    @Darren Sager ahhh, very good color, thank you. I haven't been in that area in quite awhile, but I do recall a lot of projects going on by the train station over there. That's kind of a shame - I remember it being a quaint, fun town.

  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    @Jon Holdman,

    To work from what you posted; as an investor, I find it more profitable to put all my funds towards investments and let the resulting cash flow pay the personal residence rent. The residence rent is also a tax deduction, but that is a different subject.

    Thus, everything I own pays me money and/or reduces my tax burden.

    It is a different approach and not a common one, but it has worked well and I know others that it has worked for them as well.

  • Investor · Hermosa Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 42 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    "The residence rent is also a tax deduction" .. unless you are claiming your residence as a place of business, (even then you can use only part of the residence that is exclusively used for business) .. its unusual

  • NJ · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    @Tom Goans @LEONID ORLOV Care to elaborate on the rent being a tax deduction?

    @Darren Sager In Maplewood, how's the area below Springfield Ave and bordered in the south by Rt 78? It's pretty close to Irvington and home prices seem to be reasonable there.

  • Darren SagerPro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    @Jessica W. The Township of Maplewood has made vast investment into the entire length of Springfield Ave that runs through that area of town. The current Mayor of Maplewood lives there. I have a client who's lived there for 8 years I believe and loves it and all his neighbors. They built the new multimillion dollar Police station there. The only issue that you'd need to look into their is drainage as some of the streets can flood. Its the furthest away from the train station however there is the jitney service which picks people up and drops them off everyday to make commuting easy. I'm showing a house there tomorrow to another investor.

  • Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2014 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    @Jessica W. Thanks for starting this topic. I'm also in a similar situation. I work in Newark, NJ and have been looking for a multifamily (within easy commute) where I can live in one unit and also rent out the other. I'm currently looking into the Bloomfield/Belleville area as well as Maplewood/South Orange

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