BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
We've added a new way for users to gain influence points -- promoting BiggerPockets!
Here are two new ways that you can gain some serious influence points:
Write a review or share tips on using BiggerPockets on your blog:
- Gain 200 points for doing so on an off-site blog or 100 points for doing so on an on-site blog.
- Gain 100 points for each YouTube Video that you make that either reviews BP or that shares tips on using the site.
Of course, there is a bit of fine print for these:
PM me after the post or video has been published so we can add your points. Blog articles must be at least 300 words and videos must be at least 30 seconds. Users are limited to credit for 10 videos and 10 blog articles. You cannot gain points for the same article more than once. Points are not guaranteed; low quality articles or videos may not result in influence points.
If you have any thoughts/ideas/criticisms/suggestions for these or other new ideas for gaining influence for users who promote the site, please share them below.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Frankly, I think the influence system is broken. There are two aspects to the influence system and there seems to be a conflict between them. (a) BP wants to acknowledge the efforts of members to make the site more popular by contributing to articles, discussions, blogs, referrals, etc. and (b) BP users want to find a quick way to identify the serious and knowledgeable BP members.
When I joined BP, the guys with influence points tended to be the more experienced and knowledgeable RE investors and that helped me to identify people to network with. Today, I see a lot of people with influence points mainly because they are prolific on the site and not because they are really worth networking with.
I think we should actually reduce the influence system and only grant influence points when someone gets a vote on a non-political thread. The other types of activities, such as bulletins, blogs, etc. can have a different scoring system that acknowledges people's contributions to the site but should not get influence points because the word "influence" can be misleading and dilute the value of the entire point system over time.
Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Sounds like a win-win-win. A great way to give to BP and the BP community, Another way to gain influence points and a wonderful way to help new or potential members learn something about the site.
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Since most of our members probably have email lists, I was thinking that perhaps we could offer points for promoting via newsletter, but a)I don't want people to annoy folks guru-style and b) I think tracking would be incredibly difficult . . . just wanted to share in case this sparks other good ideas.
Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Josh, I was rereading this and want to clarify "on-site blog." As I understand it "articles" become a part of the Bigger Pockets blog. Member blogs are also an on-site blog. When you say on-site blog you are referring to both of these? The confusion comes because you also mention "articles."
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Charles - I'm not talking about our articles directory, but posts on our member blogs.
Another thought . . . what does everyone think about there being a limit on the frequency that a member can gain points for these posts/videos? I'm thinking that perhaps we should limit to one per day to at least spread things out a tiny bit. If we set the limitation to weekly, I think folks would likely forget.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Frankly, I think the influence system is broken. There are two aspects to the influence system and there seems to be a conflict between them. (a) BP wants to acknowledge the efforts of members to make the site more popular by contributing to articles, discussions, blogs, referrals, etc. and (b) BP users want to find a quick way to identify the serious and knowledgeable BP members.
When I joined BP, the guys with influence points tended to be the more experienced and knowledgeable RE investors and that helped me to identify people to network with. Today, I see a lot of people with influence points mainly because they are prolific on the site and not because they are really worth networking with.
I think we should actually reduce the influence system and only grant influence points when someone gets a vote on a non-political thread. The other types of activities, such as bulletins, blogs, etc. can have a different scoring system that acknowledges people's contributions to the site but should not get influence points because the word "influence" can be misleading and dilute the value of the entire point system over time.
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Vikram -
We can certainly talk about the influence system and its value (I agree that we shouldn't be issuing points for off-topic, political, or even ad posts, but these are not quick/easy fixes), but I think we should reserve another thread for that.
I'd like to keep this one focused on the discussion of the "Promoting BP" influence points.
Bryan -
In the 6 years (BP is turning 6 in 2 weeks) that the site has been around, I think I've seen maybe 2 or 3 videos about the site (from people other than me) and probably a few dozen posts on other blogs about the site, at most, from our members. We've had a lot of great press, but it seems that the membership just hasn't been enthusiastic about promoting the site beyond word of mouth, email, Facebook, Twitter, and invites.
You'd think that with such a vast audience, with all the people who take advice from this site every day, who make successful connections and deals, and who are active here that there would be many more videos and blogs about BP; I hope that the new influence points give people a reason to make that happen and I hope that I am swamped with work keeping up with it because there's no stronger endorsement than a review or someone telling others how to use the site for their own success.
As for a system to keep up with all the posts/videos, I plan on just using the member notes, which is one of my favorite tools on the site.
I'm guessing that you think the caps that I set are reasonable?
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
The caps are fine and reasonable IMO. You certainly don't want people spamming others for points.
Some constructive feedback (not whining) is that i quit sending links out to others because:
1. The award for sending links hasn't been granted to me despite having enough invites
2. Many people that joined the site because I invited them did so outside of the link I sent them so I didn't get credit for it
I still tell people about the site and we would have promoted it on our blog and newsletter when we were putting it out weekly. There seemed to be pushback about cross promotion though. People in general do what is in their best interest so you may think of a model where both BP and the promoter benefit outside of just influence points. I am sure you would get much more promotion from people with large followings if you extended these offers to people that are loyal site members and high contributors.
My two cents...worth at least as much as you paid for it :-)
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
15y
I agree Josh, there should be some limitation. Good plan too!
I agree with V as well that influence points, while a good idea, do not really pinpoint those having expertise in an area. Now that we can see who voted for a comment, I have seen alot of trading of votes...and I'm kinda guilty of that as well, feeling that it returns the favor, but mine are not given without merit! Popularity has played a big part in this system, I have seen rather uninformative very short comments be voted up and I'm not talking about jokes or humor, or political issues, I'm speaking strickly about RE issues.
Some are here you have advanced very quickly with influence points, yet really lack an indepth knowledge of RE issues, just very opinionated, but popular input. And that's fine, but anyone who simply relies on the posts/influence points as a measurement of expertise may be disappointed. People might look too to the number of contacts and follwers over a period of time as an indicator as well. IMO This is not meant to be critical of anyone, just a factors observed. Now, with additional means to advance those points, I can see where some will take advantage of the opportunity.
And V makes another good point, that everyone here is not someone to do business with, like myself, I conduct very little business outside my area and don't do business with anyone here, and probably won't, unless they want to do business in my backyard. My reasons to be here is simply to help, assist and share knowledge, I have no business agenda here, nor do I feed the threads for points, as most are aware....LOL
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
15y
True Bryan, I'm rather active on other sites and have "invited" people here that can't be measured. I think Charles Perkins and I met on another site long ago, not saying he is here because of me, not at all, but I see many familiar faces.
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Bryan -
1 - Fair enough . . . we've had some problems with the site's awards system, as you know, but instead of spending our energies on a fix for that, we've been spending time/money on higher impact projects, such as those that improve the user experience for huge chunks of members as opposed to a relative few -- for now -- given that both time and money are limited. I don't like having anything that is broken, so hopefully we'll get to these tickets soon.
That said, I hope that the only reason that people are inviting other people is not so they can get an award. I know that I invite people to social sites that I spend my time on -- I don't do it for any kind of award. For example, I've introduced dozens of people to LinkedIn over the years because I find it to be valuable -- they have never given me any kind of points or awards for doing so. That said, we do still track invites and the leaders are awarded with FREE PR on our stats page. As you very well know, there is considerable value in the visibility that comes with being a leader on this site. Hopefully this incentivizes some who may not have otherwise sent an invite.
If people sign up outside your invite link, there is little we can do about it as I'm sure you realize; that said, I'm happy that you still tell people about the site -- I know you believe in it.
2 - As for the issue of newsletter promotion, the currency that we trade in is visibility. I regularly get offers from Gurus and others who want me to promote them in our newsletter in exchange for the same from them. This is complicated by many factors. A) List sizes are never identical B) open rates are never identical C) Reputation is never identical. Aside from the obvious differences in numbers, we simply can't afford to endorse anyone and everyone that wants to do some kind of newsletter exchange. The biggest reason is that I simply don't have the ability to learn enough about all the businesses that want to do this to do a fair and honest promo. As most regulars to the site know, I am not willing to sell out, no matter the cost, or I'd be raking in millions promoting every guru and business that has requested it of me.
Back the the newsletter . . . for example, I know that you're an active contributor to the site, Bryan, but I know very little about your business. On the other hand, you know the value of BP, as you are an active member who gains a lot from using the site. Can you see why it is a lot easier for you to endorse BP on your newsletter than it is for me to endorse yours on ours? I can certainly endorse you as an active member, but as for your business, I know about as much about that as I do about my neighbor's company. I like both of you and would gladly tell people about you as people, but can't do the same for your businesses. Now, take you and multiply you several times per week and you'll see that it is just impossible for us to enter into these kinds of arrangements unless it is with a business that I have an intimate working relationship with.
BTW - I don't see you as whining . . . just venting your thoughts. I'm glad you feel like you're able to do so here. Hopefully you have a better understanding of my line of thinking as well now.
Bill - The influence system was never established to vet those members who are more credible than others. It simply exists, and has since the beginning, to point out those who have more influence on our site because of their visibility, activity, and interest in promoting BP.
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Side note: I really hope that this thread doesn't become a debate on why people aren't promoting the site or what people don't like about BP or the influence system; lets please use this to share ideas for what would potentially incentivize others to be more active in promoting the site or helping your peers learn about using it to its fullest.
We all have complaints about BP - myself included.
I'd like to try and keep this thread on a positive note if possible.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
Yeah...I bet I have pulled 30+ people to the site and have only "officially" got credit for 17. I have also posted several thousand articles. Neither of the awards show up for me so it seems like something worth fixing.
It seems to me that everyone equates business relationships via the site as "selling out." If someone has been on the site for a long time and has a high influence score I don't see any problem in exchanging lists or exposure with them. This can fall far short of an endorsement. BP and the company can just share exposure based on their following. If BP commands X Alexa ranking and the other company command Y then there could be some sort of disproprortionate exposure.
Getting more exposure for BP can be coupled with cross promotion if done prudently with valued members of the site.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:
Bill - The influence system was never established to vet those members who are more credible than others. It simply exists, and has since the beginning, to point out those who have more influence on our site because of their visibility, activity, and interest in promoting BP.
BTW - Thanks for sharing BP with others as well.
Josh, my basis for that opinion stems from hearing others justify a response as being more valid than another due to the influence points of one person than the other,being used as a scale to judge who was right. Glad to hear what the true measure of the influecnce points represent.
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Big thanks to Bryan for posting the first blog article helping others use BP on his BiggerPockets blog. He was awarded his due influence for his post:
BiggerPockets Groups - A Great Feature
Real Estate Investor · Fishers, IN · Member since 2009 · 408 posts · 196 votes
15y
Josh,
Glad to hear of this addition. The more diverse the media and source the more relevant the Google results. Videos and outside blog posts are going to be great ways to see the outside impact. Might I suggest directly to you setting up Google Alerts for this. I have setup Google Alerts for myself on topics like "Self Directed IRA" and Google searches the internet for new blog posts, videos and articles that mention my search term. You could do that for biggerpockets.com and see how far your reach is becoming!
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Hey Kevin -
I appreciate the note. I've been using Google alerts for some time now. It doesn't get everything, but it is definitely helpful. I'm glad you like the idea and hope that maybe you'll also jump in and pump out a video or blog post about the site too!
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
15y
I have a very similar experience and over the course of my membership here, I have invited well over 100 people to this site, yet have very little invite credit for it. mainly because they either don't use the link and go direct to the BP site, or because I refer them in person and just give them the Biggerpockets site address. The only way I can think of any type of credit being given is to forward the name and or other info of the referred party to Josh, and then credit be given, but this would be a timeconsuming nightmare if there were a lot.
Countless times, I have spoken at RE clubs as the head speaker and advised all in attendance to join BP. I understand that tracking this is almost impossible, but I have and will continue to do so, credit or no credit.
Somehow, I missed this thread until now and will be happy to write blog posts and such for BP. Glad to see that Josh has added a points bonus for the efforts.
As far as Vikram's post, I agree as well, the system is flawed, but then, what system isn't! At first, the expereinced investors were the ones with the influence points and it was much easier to pick them out. Now, you can have somebdoy with 7,000 in influence and they may still be trying to do their first deal. That said, I also agreew ith Josh that "influence" points does not equal quality or expereince or knowledge of any investor. that must be assertained by the comments posted in their threads.
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
15y
I've followed this thread a bit, but haven't added anything yet... So , here goes.
I think I post less now than ever before, and part of reason is the points or stats. I've never really cared about that, except in one instance. I told a poster I wanted to pass Mike OH as a goal! He explained how, but WAY over this techies head!
I try to address questions when I receive them, whether e-mails, PMs or posts that ask my opinion.
I knew something was wrong when I received these quotes from 3 different BP posters in e-mails or PMs or conversations
1. "I plan on ALWAYS being # 1 on BP. (when I passed him I was smiling)
2. "Here is how you work the system and earn points." (this from a second BP member)
3. "I plan on reaching 1000 colleagues and having highest stats of anyone, I'll find out how and do it.( this from a 3rd member)
I guess this leads to Vikrams' point. I'm sure there are good intentions in everyone, but some definitely have unterior motives.
I don't understand the system well enough to have a yes/no opinion. I'll leave that to Josh, since he understands what he is after.
I'm sure constant tweaking is probably good, but players will just learn how to play the system.
I'll be fine when I don't show up in the stats and hope members will still ask for advice on subjects I'm familiar with.
To me , BP is great and there are many knowledgeable, experienced members here that are trying to advise and help members to avoid pitfalls we all encounter. Â
  I would encourage posters, especially newbies, to not get hung up in stats. Just reading BP threads will show you quickly who the doers are, and who the thinkers and concept people are, imo. Â
I didn't blog for points and I didn't stop because of points. I stopped because it appeared not many were reading them and they take a LONG time for a nontypist to post!
Good luck to all the aspiring points leaders on BP and thanks to all those that are assisting with points not in mind, Rich