Updating the BiggerPockets Influence System

Joshua D. · 2012-03-13T10:22:57-07:00

Hey All - One of our upcoming projects is to update our influence system to one that better reflects a user's influence on the site. We will be transforming the system from the current limitless influence scale to a 0 to 100 scale, where all new users start at 50, and can work down or up from there. Active users who have influence points currently will be placed in the new system based on their current influence. That said, one of the important factors of our new system will be a time decay of influence, so those people who may have been active in the past, but who are no longer active, will slowly lose points over time. Ultimately, we're interested in hearing from you, what makes you trust OR NOT trust someone on the site? We want to take as many factors into account as possible so this system has some meaning and shows at any given time who the influencers are, and I'm looking to you for your feedback. One of the things I'm most interested in hearing about is user feedback on negatives and the drivers of a user losing "points" on our scale. Thanks and I look forward to a lively and respectful debate.

Joshua D.Pro Member

OP

BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes

14y

Thanks Michael Quarles - I have no problem with people complaining . . . it helps us build a better mousetrap.

As Rich Weese said, I'll never satisfy everyone. I'll go one further and say that as the site grows, there will always be more people who are dissatisfied. The key is to take into consideration their concerns and do what you can with them.

Just because we don't respond to every suggestion and complaint, doesn't mean that we're not listening. In fact, in the last week, we've made several changes to the site that people have been asking about for a year or so -- adding the ability to respond to colleague request messages and improving the system. I've said what needs to be said in previous posts, and if the need arises, will add to that.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to express themselves. I do have to say that I'd hate to think that people would leave the site because they aren't fans of our influence system . . I'd hope that they see the greater good of being a member here and the value it can bring to their business and investing.

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

14y

Josh has made it abundantly clear that the bp "influence" meter has NOTHING to do with a member's skill level and that it is Only a secondary means to display a members participation level. With the old system, I did look at it with a bit of "experience" level which may have been incorrect, but with the new system's ability to minimize "cheating" and with a better explanation of the purpose, I now like it. I nor anyone else has all the facts and what makes it tick ( and we should never be privy to that info) but from the little I do know about it, it makes sense and seems fair. To those worried about a 1-3 point drop in one day, I say u should be much more cobcerened with your next RE deal and pound the pavement for info and advice here on bp, then magically your points may in deed work back up.

Josh, Congrats on the site improvements, including the influence system (participation meter) and for dealing with an overwhelmingly long thread on this topic.

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Jon Klaus

Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

14y

YES!

^^^^THIS!

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Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member

Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 690 votes

14y

I think those with less influence (joined later perhaps) are more upset. It seems lots of people have been grandfathered (or maybe sniffed by the algorithm) into the 90's.

My big beef is the content, especially in the blogs. I don't think the new system does a good job rewarding those with good content.

That said, you can't beat someone up for doing what works for their business. At the end of the day it isn't personal, it is just business.

All those eager to contribute, great! I'm just sensitive to my own IP. I'm all about giving back and mentoring, that isn't the issue. I'm more concerned with devoting chunks of time to author something worth reading. After all, time is money. With all the fluff on the internet (and BP is not fluff free), I'm not giving away content unless I feel I'm being treated fairly. Otherwise, I'll keep my IP and find a better outlet.

Nothing against Joshua Dorkin or BP, it is just business. After all, it is my IP.

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Joshua D.Pro Member

OP

BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes

14y

Mark Updegraff - I'm sorry that you're not happy, and we certainly appreciate your contributions on the site. I believe that your contributions have brought you value, and would continue to do so if you continued to be an active member of the community.

If you're looking for a place to retain complete control of your IP, that place is your own website. Participating anywhere else will cede some level of IP to others.

Personally, I engage on other networks and give up my IP because I recognize the value that it brings back to me. I believe that people do the same here for that exact reason; I have enough emails letting me know of the success stories from those who have built a business as a result of BP to remain confident that our platform is a net benefit to those who engage.

That said, it seems like your mind is made up, so I wish you the best of luck going forward. Take care!

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Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member

Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 690 votes

14y

Joshua Dorkin I understand completely. My mind is never made up, I just have varying levels of enthusiasm for things, just ask my wife! When I'm interested in something it borders on obsessive.

As I stated previously, I'm all about mentoring others and learning from the more experienced. I've learned more from them than any text book. That is why BP is fantastic! So many experienced RE folk who are kind enough to help others out!

For me, diminishing 'influence' is just a de-motivator as far as publishing goes. If someone sends me a message asking a question I'll most definitely answer it, that isn't my point. Good fresh content takes time to produce. If I say hello to every new member my influence goes up, but if I spend a few days writing and editing something novel to publish on the blog it goes down? Who had more influence? Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello versus a nicely written essay?

Maybe influence should be renamed site activity?

Mark at 65 influence

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

14y

Mark - the influence system is not about "influence, and IS about site activity and participation. Perhaps the name is misleading, but Josh has explained this in this thread more times than I have fingers now.

I agree with you that one who spends quality time to publish a blog post or article with great fresh content should carry more weight than one who posts hello 3 times, but that is not what this specific system is for or about.

Your time spent publishing quality info will reap rewards through exposure, networking and doing deals with other BP members. That is what matters and that is what most of us are here for, to make money, which comes from learning from others.

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

14y

I have been out of the county on vacation for two weeks and my "influence level" has dropped from 99 to 92. Should I have been in the 90's to start? I think so, I am one of the longest running active members, and other than Josh and his moderator Jon Holdman, am the top forum poster on the site. That did not come easy and involved an imense amount of time and effort on my part.
Should I have dropped 7 poknts in 2 weeks? I don't know and don't care, I will continue to answer questions, engage the community, and hopefully keep doing deals with other BP members here.

My content and exposure should speak for itself, the influence level is ONLY a number for my activity levels mixed of prior and of recent.

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Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

14y

Well, I'm much happier;) but my internet servicer went out last Thursday! I have to go to public places until Thru..when they scheduled my repairs....Mediacom!!! TV and internet is out!

So, if stuff happens and we really drop like a rock....and what if we wanted to travel for a few days? I agree with Will, the drop is too quick....other wise...;)

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Rich Weese

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

14y

I agree that the term "influence" is not accurate, and should be re-named to activity. Since the Seminar, I've been in AZ on vacation. My days are filled with golf every morning, followed by swimming and Jacuzzi, then breakfast, then Pickleball, followed by afternoon Poker, then another round of golf and Poker in the evening.
I've also managed to cram in softball, movies, spring training games, Suns games, day tours, visiting AND 3 separate luncheons with BP members.
Also have kept wifey happy with activities she enjoys like meals out, shopping and visiting with old friends.
I believe my influence has dropped 10 + points. I have no problem with that, just the name of it-influence. From the interest I received at the Seminar, standing room only at my presentation, Book requests, e-mails and colleague requests/messages I've received recently, phone calls, etc., I still feel I'm "influential".
I'm not snubbing BP or anyone, just having a great time on vacation! It is extremely windy this morning, so no golf and time to post. I apologize to Will, McKellar and others for not responding as well as normal. I'll be back in UT monday and will be visible again on BP.
Please, this is not a rant! I just wanted to offer a view on name of system. I don't think I'm ANY less influential currently, than I was a month ago. I'll be open for business again next week on BP! Hope all are using the things learned at the Seminar in your daily activities and that all are well. Rich

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Account Closed

Wholesaler · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 219 posts · 38 votes

14y

I like this influence system a lot better than the old method. This system is a lot easier to keep track of and makes it easy to evaluate others. Thanks Josh!

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Ryan B.

Investor · -, IL · Member since 2010 · 409 posts · 616 votes

14y

Originally posted by Rich Weese:

My days are filled with golf every morning, followed by swimming and Jacuzzi, then breakfast, then Pickleball, followed by afternoon Poker, then another round of golf and Poker in the evening.

If that is not motivation to be successful in real estate I don't know what is :)

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Jon Klaus

Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

14y

Originally posted by Ryan B.:

Originally posted by Rich Weese:

My days are filled with golf every morning, followed by swimming and Jacuzzi, then breakfast, then Pickleball, followed by afternoon Poker, then another round of golf and Poker in the evening.

If that is not motivation to be successful in real estate I don't know what is :)

Don't let Rich fool you, he'd be just as happy, if not more so, building a fine home with OPM, and selling for a nice 6 figure profit. In fact Rich, aren't you getting a little ancy, playing full time?

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Rich Weese

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

14y

Jon- Just heading out for a quick round of golf!

Ryan- Heading to Vegas later today for 2 days of fun and games- then home to see how current home under const is going. It was started the day I left, March 1!

Jon- it is fun to build and I'll post some pics of it, IF I can figure out how again.
Rich

p.s. It gets light here at 5:22 am and I tee off at 5:24!

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

14y

And now, back to the topic - "Updating the Influence System"

Joshua Dorkin - I would tend to agree with others Josh that changing the name of this may be something to strongly consider.
Perhaps "Activity" would be more appropriate.

Since it is clear that after many explanations of what your system is for and about, it still confuses people and perhaps a name change would avoid such further issues.

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Uwe S.

Property Manager · Dublin, OH · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 291 votes

14y

Will Barnard,
If the system would have a new name "activity" then the start must be at 0 and not 50.

In the good old days the influence system shows how correct the members are, we demonized each negative guys here on BP in much posts. Josh changed now to another system, thats ok but he forgot how to show wicked members, dont saw anyone now with score under 50 ... and why? Josh, his company and Jon as moderator delete these bad guys from BP each day.

So there is no influence or activity system required now. No one cares other members activity I guess. So Joshua Dorkin bury this influence system it confuses to much, the number of posts should be enough to show reputable members.

-Uwe

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Luis A.

Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2009 · 339 posts · 126 votes

14y

The fact that it has taken 9 pages and still going and no two people can agree on what the "influence meter" is, what it should be called or what's its use should be a hint!

By the way there already is an "activity" meter...it's called number of posts. That's a pretty clear indicator of activity.

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Luis A.

Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2009 · 339 posts · 126 votes

14y

Originally posted by Uwe S.:

So there is no influence or activity system required now. No one cares other members activity I guess. So Joshua Dorkin bury this influence system it confuses too much, the number of posts should be enough to show reputable members.

-Uwe

Agree.

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

14y

Good point. My point was general in nature and my example of new names were just that, but you are right, using "activity" would also not be appropriate since we have post counts to do that. However, one could argue that they have only 10 posts, yet 1000 blog posts or articles written which also is "activity" which is NOT reflected in post counts. Something else to consider.

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J ScottPro Member

Moderator

Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes

14y

I am willing to give away all my influence points to the people complaining in this thread if we can finally just end this discussion! :)

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

14y

Originally posted by J Scott:

I am willing to give away all my influence points to the people complaining in this thread if we can finally just end this discussion! :)

Great idea, I concur.

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Kay Sway

New York, NY · Member since 2012 · 2 posts · 0 votes

14y

Agreed.

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Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

14y

I just noticed that Bill Gulley has hit the top of the ladder - his influence number was at 100 when I just checked! So it IS possible to hit 100.

Congratulations to Bill Gulley on hitting that mark.

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Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

14y

Well, LOL! Thanks, but I don't think I'm the first one to do it.

Now, the only direction I have is to go down! LOL

And agreed, perhaps "Active Participant Score" would better define the numeric value.

In closing, I want to thank my parents, my teachers, my.....later!

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Jon Klaus

Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

14y

Perfection! So this is want it looks like?

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Updating the BiggerPockets Influence System

Updating the BiggerPockets Influence System

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