I'm not learning anymore about RE anymore from the BP Podcast

I'm not learning anymore about RE anymore from the BP Podcast

Tucson, AZ · Member since 2015 · 56 posts · 15 votes

Just some feedback on the PB Podcast.

Things are really weird right now. Costs of rehabs and new construction are jumping. Risks of inflation are high. CAP rate sucks. There is a backlog of Covid evictions in some states. The old rules of thumb are all saying don't invest right now for most deals. 1031's might go away. I'm debating if I should cash out my property and sit with cash on the sidelines but worried sitting with cash is a mistake too.

All that to say, I want to hear what smart people are seeing, thinking, and doing right now in this market. Instead I'm this I'm hearing more about goal setting and vague advice to take action.  I need to make some tactile decisions where higher costs = higher downside risk. 

Not saying goal setting is not important, but one of my goals is to make good decisions about my investments and I'm not getting that from the BP podcast anymore.  I'm not sure if that is because the smart money is just sitting on the sidelines, or they are not wanting to talk about what they are doing, or that's not what the BP producers want to talk about.  

All that to say, I've learned so much about investing from the BP Podcast and listened to every episode, but I'm skipping it a lot now because I'm not getting the education I once did from it.  

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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
5y

I listen to the same podcasts, but maybe I hear different things. Brandon is running a team that manages his existing properties and he has moved into syndicating larger deals with a big fund that invests in mobile home parks. David is focusing on his high dollar real estate brokerage business. He is hiring agents under him and adding services like mortgages to give him an added revenue streams. He has moved away from investing in single family BRRRR's. His reason is that his time is better spent growing his brokerage.

My point is that both Brandon and David have pivoted over time and both of them are having success. I am not saying you need to follow their paths, but to say they are not smart or sharing strategies seems to be an unfair assessment. 

Based on your comments, I can offer some thoughts:

1. Cashing out is a bad strategy, unless you deploy that cash into a new investment. Nobody ever won a race from the spectator stands.

2. Goal setting is very important. Without knowing your goal, there is no way to chart a path. It is like turning on your GPS and not loading a destination. If you don't know where you are going, you will never get there.

3. "Costs of rehab and new construction are increasing", but so are property values and rents. Nobody is going to sell a house for less than they paid or rent a property for no profit just because costs went up. The bigger problem here is often when investors fail to adjust their price model to match their cost model. Simple, you pay more, you charge more.

4. "Risk of inflation is high." If you are an investor who owns properties that can be seen as good. Property values and rents both increase at or above inflation, so real estate is an inflation adjusted investment. The best strategy against inflation is debt spending. That is why the federal government targets higher inflation. As the value of the dollar decreases, you pay back the loan in future dollars that have lower value. If you fear inflation, take out loans.

5. "The old rule of thumbs are saying don't invest right now". Keep in mind those rules were developed when market conditions were different. Rules and laws always change over time. The biggest mistake you can make is applying old rules to a new game.

6. "There is a backlog of COVID evictions in some states". Are those states you are investing in? Are those properties you own? I question if this is a real problem for you. It could even be an opportunity to buy a property from a tired landlord. The eviction freeze will not last forever, so buy their problem from them and get a discount.

7. "Higher costs = higher downside". Cost and upside are not directly related. People have been buying high cost real estate in California for years and doing great. In fact I predict that Florida will see similar upside over the next 20-50 years. Florida is running out of buildable land close to the coast and experiencing population boom. 

There is a lot of uncertainty right now and fear. Smart people know the market is reacting in a predictable way to what is happening. The thing to remember is that opportunity always exists in undervalued assets. Undervalued assets are anything people don't want to buy due to risk, but you see upside in the future. As @Steve Vaughan and @Russell Brazil suggested, commercial real estate has taken a hit. Other people have seen huge gains in crypto. Short term rentals have been very successful, especially in places like Florida.  

There is opportunity, but along with it comes risk. Smart money is always one step ahead of dumb money. That is literally what makes it smart money. The podcast exposes us to a variety of different investment strategies, but often the stories are backwards looking. What I mean is people talk about how they rose to success over several years. A strategy from three years ago may not work today, but listen to how those investors are pivoting for tomorrow. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    5y

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

  • Michael K GallagherBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Michael Zagorsky interesting take and I can for sure see how you would get there....to tell you the truth I have the opposite experience. Granted I only have 3 doors, and am an agent but the most valuable info I've gotten out of the podcast are the Sunday mindset episodes. However, I go into the episodes understanding that each person and situation is extremely specific and its impossible to give sound advice to apply to the many given that REI is so location and personal goal specific. I use it more as a gut check to ask myself "am I doing the right things? am I really working as hard as I could be? Am I working on the correct things?" These kinds of questions help me take their broad information and focus it down to what is applicable for me.


    You are absolutely correct that the topics are more broad and general business focused lately...I'm just finding it more advantageous but I'm also probably at a different point in my journey.  Have you found any other shows that are fitting your needs more closely?

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

     Me too, Russell.  Businesses, retail, office, industrial, ag.

    Why investors continue to fight over on-market houses baffles me.

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

     Me too, Russell.  Businesses, retail, office, industrial, ag.

    Why investors continue to fight over on-market houses baffles me.

     I made 2 purchases so far this year after none the last 2 years. I bought some commercial office space at a price 40% lower than it would have cost in 2019, and a condo in a hot DC neighborhood about 15% lower than it would have sold for in 2019. 

    Ive been trying to buy a new primary residence too, but just like everyone else, I keep getting beat out by all cash offers.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 5 posts · 10 votes
    5y

    My 2 cents - take it with a grain of salt:

    Many of the investors on BP have only known a real estate bull market. More importantly, many of the investors on BP have bought properties in 2015, 2017, etc and watched them soar in valuation over the past few years. They've only known one investment cycle - an amazing RE boom from 2010 - now.

    Successful long-term investors have learned how to invest in every market cycle. High interest rates, low interest rates, loose money, NO money (hello 2009!), high appreciation, DEpreciation (again, hello 2009!). Respond to what the market gives you. Right now, money is abundant and rates are low. The flip side of the coin is that properties are historically expensive in nominal terms (though it may be a different story in inflation-adjusted value).

    Take what the market gives you, be a nimble investor, there is opportunity in every market. Sometimes it's just harder to see that opportunity!

    Best of luck

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y

    I listen to the same podcasts, but maybe I hear different things. Brandon is running a team that manages his existing properties and he has moved into syndicating larger deals with a big fund that invests in mobile home parks. David is focusing on his high dollar real estate brokerage business. He is hiring agents under him and adding services like mortgages to give him an added revenue streams. He has moved away from investing in single family BRRRR's. His reason is that his time is better spent growing his brokerage.

    My point is that both Brandon and David have pivoted over time and both of them are having success. I am not saying you need to follow their paths, but to say they are not smart or sharing strategies seems to be an unfair assessment. 

    Based on your comments, I can offer some thoughts:

    1. Cashing out is a bad strategy, unless you deploy that cash into a new investment. Nobody ever won a race from the spectator stands.

    2. Goal setting is very important. Without knowing your goal, there is no way to chart a path. It is like turning on your GPS and not loading a destination. If you don't know where you are going, you will never get there.

    3. "Costs of rehab and new construction are increasing", but so are property values and rents. Nobody is going to sell a house for less than they paid or rent a property for no profit just because costs went up. The bigger problem here is often when investors fail to adjust their price model to match their cost model. Simple, you pay more, you charge more.

    4. "Risk of inflation is high." If you are an investor who owns properties that can be seen as good. Property values and rents both increase at or above inflation, so real estate is an inflation adjusted investment. The best strategy against inflation is debt spending. That is why the federal government targets higher inflation. As the value of the dollar decreases, you pay back the loan in future dollars that have lower value. If you fear inflation, take out loans.

    5. "The old rule of thumbs are saying don't invest right now". Keep in mind those rules were developed when market conditions were different. Rules and laws always change over time. The biggest mistake you can make is applying old rules to a new game.

    6. "There is a backlog of COVID evictions in some states". Are those states you are investing in? Are those properties you own? I question if this is a real problem for you. It could even be an opportunity to buy a property from a tired landlord. The eviction freeze will not last forever, so buy their problem from them and get a discount.

    7. "Higher costs = higher downside". Cost and upside are not directly related. People have been buying high cost real estate in California for years and doing great. In fact I predict that Florida will see similar upside over the next 20-50 years. Florida is running out of buildable land close to the coast and experiencing population boom. 

    There is a lot of uncertainty right now and fear. Smart people know the market is reacting in a predictable way to what is happening. The thing to remember is that opportunity always exists in undervalued assets. Undervalued assets are anything people don't want to buy due to risk, but you see upside in the future. As @Steve Vaughan and @Russell Brazil suggested, commercial real estate has taken a hit. Other people have seen huge gains in crypto. Short term rentals have been very successful, especially in places like Florida.  

    There is opportunity, but along with it comes risk. Smart money is always one step ahead of dumb money. That is literally what makes it smart money. The podcast exposes us to a variety of different investment strategies, but often the stories are backwards looking. What I mean is people talk about how they rose to success over several years. A strategy from three years ago may not work today, but listen to how those investors are pivoting for tomorrow. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

     I made 2 purchases so far this year after none the last 2 years. I bought some commercial office space at a price 40% lower than it would have cost in 2019, and a condo in a hot DC neighborhood about 15% lower than it would have sold for in 2019. 

    Ive been trying to buy a new primary residence too, but just like everyone else, I keep getting beat out by all cash offers.

    Nice.  The condo being on sale kind of surprises me.  Is that a fear of shared elevators covid thing you think? Rents are falling in large multis with elevators I have read.  I'm not in a large condo,  townhome or rowhome market so am just curious. 

    To Michael the OP, I got a lot of value out of the last BP Business episode and the one a few before, also about buying Businesses on sale.  Only so many ways and so many guests can talk about the mechanics of buying but agree topical conversations relating to the current macro environment could prove beneficial, but those topics are largely discussed here on the forums. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Michael Zagorsky

    Would agree with me that some of trends you mentioned are very real and could present both opportunities and risks but for the majority of investors the most important thing a buy and hold investor can do is find good real estate to acquire with good financing?  

    As a guy with 4 kids in a small town there sometimes these podcasts can be a little impractical.  But the people that look the smartest are people that bought real estate and have held it for a significant amount of time.  I just buy residential buy and holds, there are great cases to be made for different asset classes, go to red states and all the rest of it.  But my favorite stories or interviews are always a guy that was a teacher, bricklayer, janitor that bought real estate and now has financial freedom.  I would rather listen to a guy that convinced his wife to let him turn his garage into an Airbnb and how that changed his families future then a syndicator going through regional price to rent statistics.  BP is my favorite podcast and I 100% agree that what you do is not as important as that you do.

    Dude I must also point out you have the perfect offensive linemen Zagorsky!  That is better then BIlderback.  We would have made the perfect guard tackle combo!  

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    IMO 1031s wont go anywhere and any tax hikes will be for the uber wealthy. 

    The only thing I can predict is that panicking wont help. 

    Having cash in the bank is a good idea but I try to keep 1 years expenses and the rest is invested in Index funds. 

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    5y

    One other thought besides the already excellent points mentioned so far in this thread: the podcasts are on a time lag that can be as much as 1-2 months depending on schedules and guest availability. They try not to get too far behind the curve, such that information is relevant, but you're not going to get the kind of "what do I do today" information that you are going to see on other podcasts that are produced on a weekly/semi-weekly schedule that focus on covering the week behind/the week ahead. The BP podcasts are not meant to be up-to-date news, but more discussions with investors (RE, and now with the business one, others) more broadly to learn about investing.

    Skyline Properties
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  • Lender · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 374 posts · 172 votes
    5y

    Smart money is not buying real estate right now.  The bubbles have yet to burst.  We have still not seen the fallout from the moratoriums and forbearances yet.  When they lift those, watch and see.  Silver is a great play right now.  

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

     Me too, Russell.  Businesses, retail, office, industrial, ag.

    Why investors continue to fight over on-market houses baffles me.

     How are you getting your leads?

  • San Francisco, CA · Member since 2021 · 11 posts · 8 votes
    5y

    @Jean Damico good insight. Not sure how long you have been investing... but I am brand spanking new and eager. Wondering what your thoughts might be with my strategy.

    BC of the current market conditions with low interest rates, my thought are using the BRRRR strategy to start this venture. I am referencing from the prospective of a SF Bay Area resident but looking out of state bc the bay seems like a poor market for this strategy. Right now at the stage of choosing my market to build my team. Columbus, Houston, Atlanta, or Dallas are top of my list.

    Currently selling my condo and planning to use proceeds in this venture. My goal is to own my first property at least 3 months post-escrow.

    Would love to hear your thoughts and if I’m on the right track or missing key market insights similar to this thread :)

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2019 · 433 posts · 743 votes
    5y

    BP is fantastic to jump start and network. I think it’s also great as a news source to see what trends are going on. But really you’re going to learn the most by getting into investing and doing. Taking action is the best teacher.

  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y
    As was mentioned earlier, buying an existing business is a strategy that should not be overlooked.

    I consistently see business owners working anywhere from a few hours per week to full time, pulling in $300K+ net to the owner, with a selling price of about $750K - $1M +/-.

    If the business is Amazon-proof (some retail, but not entailing personal service) and federal regulation-proof (fossil fuels and whatever else they decide to drop the hammer on), and you have the business chops to run it, that seems like a more stable and safe investment.

    Baby boomers who own these businesses are suddenly considering their exit strategy.  Some decide to keep working until they get carried out feet first.  Many more decide to cash out and enjoy their retirement, so opportunities abound!

    SBA still has a COVID program that eliminates the 3.5% loan fee and forgives the first several months of payments.  Business sales are offered 10% down.  Real estate can be less.

    If you see a business with an owner who appears to be the right age, go and talk with them.  You just might find a deal!
  • Specialist · Milford, ME · Member since 2016 · 630 posts · 378 votes
    5y

    There are always good properties to buy in almost any market. I never knew there was a recession in 2008 until I listened to BP, because I was busy buying, rehabbing and just doing business. I had about 200 units at the time. You need to think outside the box as to where and what you buy. Real estate is different in different demographics, different areas and even different neighborhoods so not everything you hear will apply to the one you’re in but the principles usually will. I’ve been doing this for nearly 30 years and the only real difference today is that there is so much information and noise out there. In every market there are value add plays that can be done. There are people moving, people dying, people downsizing, zoning changes, etc. Before the internet, we focused in our local area, looked at the numbers and took action. Most people had success who wanted to hustle and were willing to take calculated risk. In the big picture nothing really changes even though everything may seem different. Another thing that has never changed is if you do nothing, you’ll be average at best. If you are willing to do what others won’t you’ll have more success and have more choices over the long term.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Michael Zagorsky:

    Just some feedback on the PB Podcast.

    Things are really weird right now. Costs of rehabs and new construction are jumping. Risks of inflation are high. CAP rate sucks. There is a backlog of Covid evictions in some states. The old rules of thumb are all saying don't invest right now for most deals. 1031's might go away. I'm debating if I should cash out my property and sit with cash on the sidelines but worried sitting with cash is a mistake too.

    All that to say, I want to hear what smart people are seeing, thinking, and doing right now in this market. Instead I'm this I'm hearing more about goal setting and vague advice to take action.  I need to make some tactile decisions where higher costs = higher downside risk. 

    Not saying goal setting is not important, but one of my goals is to make good decisions about my investments and I'm not getting that from the BP podcast anymore.  I'm not sure if that is because the smart money is just sitting on the sidelines, or they are not wanting to talk about what they are doing, or that's not what the BP producers want to talk about.  

    All that to say, I've learned so much about investing from the BP Podcast and listened to every episode, but I'm skipping it a lot now because I'm not getting the education I once did from it.  

     I can tell you what I'm doing:  Continuing to buy smart multifmamily deals that make sense.  With inflation expected I want to lock in as much debt (backed by income property) as I can.  Almost all ~$60m of my debt is at/under 4% now.   I'm about to add $28m of debt at 3.8% (7 year).

    So my advice:  Get as much "stuff" as you can while it's cheap (in terms of dollars that will be losing value) as an inflation hedge.   Double down on inflation hedge by leveraging with cheap debt. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

     I made 2 purchases so far this year after none the last 2 years. I bought some commercial office space at a price 40% lower than it would have cost in 2019, and a condo in a hot DC neighborhood about 15% lower than it would have sold for in 2019. 

    Ive been trying to buy a new primary residence too, but just like everyone else, I keep getting beat out by all cash offers.

    Nice.  The condo being on sale kind of surprises me.  Is that a fear of shared elevators covid thing you think? Rents are falling in large multis with elevators I have read.  I'm not in a large condo,  townhome or rowhome market so am just curious. 

    To Michael the OP, I got a lot of value out of the last BP Business episode and the one a few before, also about buying Businesses on sale.  Only so many ways and so many guests can talk about the mechanics of buying but agree topical conversations relating to the current macro environment could prove beneficial, but those topics are largely discussed here on the forums. 

    "Rents are falling in large multis with elevators I have read."


    That's the silliest thing I've ever heard.  People are insane.  Why would you price or value something as if Covid will be with us forever.   I mean, would you start up a mask factory at this point or do you think the 'everyone is buying masks' is going to be with us forever?

     Many states have gone totally back to normal (God Bless Texas).  100m+ have been vaccinated.  Covid sucked, but it's time to move the F on.   

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Eric Bilderback:

    @Michael Zagorsky

    Would agree with me that some of trends you mentioned are very real and could present both opportunities and risks but for the majority of investors the most important thing a buy and hold investor can do is find good real estate to acquire with good financing?  

    As a guy with 4 kids in a small town there sometimes these podcasts can be a little impractical.  But the people that look the smartest are people that bought real estate and have held it for a significant amount of time.  I just buy residential buy and holds, there are great cases to be made for different asset classes, go to red states and all the rest of it.  But my favorite stories or interviews are always a guy that was a teacher, bricklayer, janitor that bought real estate and now has financial freedom.  I would rather listen to a guy that convinced his wife to let him turn his garage into an Airbnb and how that changed his families future then a syndicator going through regional price to rent statistics.  BP is my favorite podcast and I 100% agree that what you do is not as important as that you do.

    Dude I must also point out you have the perfect offensive linemen Zagorsky!  That is better then BIlderback.  We would have made the perfect guard tackle combo!  

     "I would rather listen to a guy that convinced his wife to let him turn his garage into an Airbnb and how that changed his families future then a syndicator going through regional price to rent statistics."

    I couldn't agree more. 

  • Wale LawalBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    I listen to the same podcasts, but maybe I hear different things. Brandon is running a team that manages his existing properties and he has moved into syndicating larger deals with a big fund that invests in mobile home parks. David is focusing on his high dollar real estate brokerage business. He is hiring agents under him and adding services like mortgages to give him an added revenue streams. He has moved away from investing in single family BRRRR's. His reason is that his time is better spent growing his brokerage.

    My point is that both Brandon and David have pivoted over time and both of them are having success. I am not saying you need to follow their paths, but to say they are not smart or sharing strategies seems to be an unfair assessment. 

    Based on your comments, I can offer some thoughts:

    1. Cashing out is a bad strategy, unless you deploy that cash into a new investment. Nobody ever won a race from the spectator stands.

    2. Goal setting is very important. Without knowing your goal, there is no way to chart a path. It is like turning on your GPS and not loading a destination. If you don't know where you are going, you will never get there.

    3. "Costs of rehab and new construction are increasing", but so are property values and rents. Nobody is going to sell a house for less than they paid or rent a property for no profit just because costs went up. The bigger problem here is often when investors fail to adjust their price model to match their cost model. Simple, you pay more, you charge more.

    4. "Risk of inflation is high." If you are an investor who owns properties that can be seen as good. Property values and rents both increase at or above inflation, so real estate is an inflation adjusted investment. The best strategy against inflation is debt spending. That is why the federal government targets higher inflation. As the value of the dollar decreases, you pay back the loan in future dollars that have lower value. If you fear inflation, take out loans.

    5. "The old rule of thumbs are saying don't invest right now". Keep in mind those rules were developed when market conditions were different. Rules and laws always change over time. The biggest mistake you can make is applying old rules to a new game.

    6. "There is a backlog of COVID evictions in some states". Are those states you are investing in? Are those properties you own? I question if this is a real problem for you. It could even be an opportunity to buy a property from a tired landlord. The eviction freeze will not last forever, so buy their problem from them and get a discount.

    7. "Higher costs = higher downside". Cost and upside are not directly related. People have been buying high cost real estate in California for years and doing great. In fact I predict that Florida will see similar upside over the next 20-50 years. Florida is running out of buildable land close to the coast and experiencing population boom. 

    There is a lot of uncertainty right now and fear. Smart people know the market is reacting in a predictable way to what is happening. The thing to remember is that opportunity always exists in undervalued assets. Undervalued assets are anything people don't want to buy due to risk, but you see upside in the future. As @Steve Vaughan and @Russell Brazil suggested, commercial real estate has taken a hit. Other people have seen huge gains in crypto. Short term rentals have been very successful, especially in places like Florida.  

    There is opportunity, but along with it comes risk. Smart money is always one step ahead of dumb money. That is literally what makes it smart money. The podcast exposes us to a variety of different investment strategies, but often the stories are backwards looking. What I mean is people talk about how they rose to success over several years. A strategy from three years ago may not work today, but listen to how those investors are pivoting for tomorrow. 

     I could not say it better. Look for opportunity and act quickly. Money is cheap and in abundant right now. It will not be like that forever.

    I like the saying that nobody win the battle by seating of the fence. You have to be strategic with your purchase or don't complain.

    We don't have control over what the next person is willing to pay for a property either it makes sense to you or not, It's there decision.

    Make your own decision too. I am still buying and will continue to look for opportunity and buy.

    The BP Podcast has a lot of value but you have to personalize the contents and make your own rules and strategies. 

    YES! You can create a new strategy and everyone will follow if it make sense just like @David Greene did with BRRRR.

    Goodluck

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joe S.:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

     Me too, Russell.  Businesses, retail, office, industrial, ag.

    Why investors continue to fight over on-market houses baffles me.

     How are you getting your leads?

    Commercial RE as in office, warehouses, etc is a totally different business model and folks should be very aware of this.  There is great rewards but also great downsides - when spaces go vacant they can sit for years....  also your leases are long term which cuts both ways - also mostly commercial spaces need a broker to lease it is not like housing where you can be your own manager - the commercial guys have this space pretty well monetized....  so....  possible to do well? of course - but IMO its not for those that dont know what they are doing. 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:
    Originally posted by @Joe S.:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Im pivoting to buying small commercial office space and condos in the city. Both are cold and beaten down due to covid. 

     Me too, Russell.  Businesses, retail, office, industrial, ag.

    Why investors continue to fight over on-market houses baffles me.

     How are you getting your leads?

    Commercial RE as in office, warehouses, etc is a totally different business model and folks should be very aware of this.  There is great rewards but also great downsides - when spaces go vacant they can sit for years....  also your leases are long term which cuts both ways - also mostly commercial spaces need a broker to lease it is not like housing where you can be your own manager - the commercial guys have this space pretty well monetized....  so....  possible to do well? of course - but IMO its not for those that dont know what they are doing. 

    Good points and lease agreements often include landlord provided improvements. That means the landlord needs to outlay cash up front and recoup it through rents. Brokers get a commission on the total lease, so a longer term lease means bigger commission. Rent increases are usually predetermined in the lease, so even though it may be a three year lease, there are annual increases. Many commercial leases are NNN so the tenant literally pays every expense. As you said the risk is a space can sit vacant for a long time. Our local Best Buy building came up for sale a couple years ago and I thought, that is a great until Best Buy goes the way of Circuit City or Frys. Then you have a gigantic empty building that isn't easily rented. I think buying office space or something like a retail strip mall is pretty safe. If you are getting into bigger properties, you really need to know what you are doing.

  • Tucson, AZ · Member since 2015 · 56 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    Hey everyone.  Wanted to post an update.  A member of the BP team reached out to me and I we had a great 15 minute chat.  Hats off to the BP team for their commitment to the community.  

    I wanted to put a pin on my original post.  I think my initial feedback comes back to this question:  What is the argument for investing in real estate right now?  For the last decade, there was a strong case. The old school rules of thumbs worked and the content of the BP podcast was a masterclass in how to do it.  Today, not so much.  So what is the case today to take action vs. waiting and/or investing in a non-RE asset class.  

    In the words of investor Jack Bogle, 'Don't do something; just stand there'. 

    Or to parrot Boglehead investing advice:  If you won the game, stop playing. 

    If the response is 'the rules have changed' well let's deep dive this--After all investing history has not treated investors well that make this proclamation in the past. 


    From an economic view:

    1. SFR is a hot market. Are there deals? Of course! but for a majority of investors that are not full time, it seems too competitive a space to say the odds are in your favor if you play. Buy the Toilet Paper you need and wait, the market will catch up. No need to stock pile.

    2. Commercial: Seems like a nice idea, if you can find niches. That said, you are tying up your capital in a long term low CAP rate asset and if interest rates raise, you end up losing money.


    So here was my specific feedback to the BP team:

    1.  What are the rules right now?  What is the case to take action vs. wait?  (After all, there were people investing in Detroit in the 1980's--action is not always progress, it can be regressive to ones goals).  

    2. As an investor, how do I perform due diligence before investing in other people's deals? (private lending, syndications, REIT's, etc.) I think this is a bigger deal as SFR investors cash out and may want to place their capital with others. Not going to lie, investing in something that either I don't personally own, have colleterial against, or is a publicly traded company with audited financials scares the crap out of me.

    3.  International perspective.   What does the rest of the world look like?  

  • Rental Property Investor · Houston · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 17 votes
    5y

    I get it’s hard and uncertain. Here’s the $.02 of an early stage investor who’s seen a little success.

    It sounds boilerplate, but I think a lot of success in residential investing in my market comes down to resourcefulness, hustle, and willingness to take a certain amount of risk.

    I did just that, and it’s worked out fairly well.

    I came to Houston from the SF Bay Area about a year ago in the depths of Covid. I met some folks on BP and got to know them at a small meet up that I helped coordinate. Trailing behind the support of more experienced investors I was able to pick up 4 SFR 3/2s Each of which runs between 8 - 12% COC holding 10% for CapEx. I do my own property management.

    The strategy no longer works in the same way as pricing has become even hotter than it was when I started, and some Fannie/Freddie rule changes have made investment money more expensive. That said, when I was perusing the forums at the time, I regularly heard people talking about how there's no deals out there and everything is overpriced.

    8-12% COC isn't a "grand slam" but it's definitely a base hit. I pulled it off by putting in a ton of offers on properties that were priced a little bit incorrectly, every one of which was over the asking price. I was able to land about 1 out of 6 properties I put an offer on.

    Everyone is different, but for myself, I picked target areas and I analyzed every single deal that came up, typically I did it within 30 minutes of it appearing on HAR. If the numbers made sense I went after it hard. I figured if people were going to go 5 over on that property I’d go 7 over. I figured if people were putting a $200 option fee I’d put a $400 option fee.

    The same metrics do not work today in the same way. That said, there was no mainstream playbook for what I was doing and it most certainly required a lot of “on the ground” work, cash on hand, and was greatly aided by the guidance of more experienced investors.

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