Nightmare property. What would you do?

Nightmare property. What would you do?

Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes

I have a property that has been an absolute nightmare and I’m not sure how I want to move forward.  The property is located in the 72209 zip.

I am trying to get to the root of the issue and I’m worried it could be multiple things.

I purchased the property at the end of 2019 and we will start with tenants.

Tenant 1 was fine until she lost her job and her replacement job didn’t pay nearly as much.  She left on her own after 5 months and I was only out a months rent. 2 month turnover until the next tenants are in.

Tenant 2 was a couple and they were great, but they weren’t reporting issues with the house which came to be quite a disaster.  The toilet was running and they never reported it they were also having issues with the sewer drain plugging up and sometimes backing up into the tub which they were able to fix on their own most of time but obviously the issue was never resolved because it kept coming back.  Long story not so long the two issues joined forces when they were out for 12 hours and sewer had been flooding the house nearly the entire time.  Massive insurance claim to the tune of almost 40k which included hot water heater, furnace and pretty much everything else inside the house.  They then got mad at me,  stopped paying and then moved out leaving me a few months short.

Tenant 3 was in within a few weeks but in the time of them moving in to having to pay 2nd months rent all their assets had been frozen and the previously cleared rent check had been clawed back by their bank.  They moved out leaving me out a months rent.

The newest tenant took almost 4 months to place and now we have tenant 4.  This long turnover period was SUPPOSED to be so we could finally get someone decent in this house.  As they were moving in someone did something to the electric meter killing the power to the house and then they stole the AC condenser with the tenants in the property.  These guys moved in at the end of March and the excuses started IMMEDIATELY.  They then got current and even paid Most of June early, but that’s been it.  They have bounced every check since and one of the neighbors reported that the husband moved out months ago.  So now she is full on nasty and making all sorts of allegations against my property manager.  So she is on her way out and I’m out some of June and all of July/August.

I’ll add that I’m an out of state investor and I’m relying 100% on my property manager.  I was well aware that this zip code can be sketchy in areas and thought that I was in the halfway decent part.  I spoke with a few managers and they all seemed comfortable with the area and no one expressed any concerns in that regard. 

What would you do?

Should I cut my losses and sell this house?  I know this is the emotional choice, but my wife has been over it for over a year and I’m right with her.

Is property management the issue?  The other houses I have with him are mostly doing okay.


Has it just been a string of bad luck and should I stick with it considering the house is brand new?

Thank you for sticking with this long and rambling post.

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Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y

Dump it. People make it sound like cheap out of state cashflow properties work on here but real life I have had a few clients buy them and all of them dumped the properties (various states) as they flopped. You need huge margins for the deals to work well with managers and be able to afford denials on a lot of the potential tenants. 

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  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    The toilet was running and they never reported it they were also having issues with the sewer drain plugging up and sometimes backing up into the tub which they were able to fix on their own most of time but obviously the issue was never resolved because it kept coming back. ---> I found this to be very strange, so you know already you have this problem but don't actively make a permanent solution ? have you tried hydrojetting before? is there clean cleanout in sewer systems ??

    Anything related to sewer is a bit scary, we got to be more proactive before something happens.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

    The toilet was running and they never reported it they were also having issues with the sewer drain plugging up and sometimes backing up into the tub which they were able to fix on their own most of time but obviously the issue was never resolved because it kept coming back. ---> I found this to be very strange, so you know already you have this problem but don't actively make a permanent solution ? have you tried hydrojetting before? is there clean cleanout in sewer systems ??

    Anything related to sewer is a bit scary, we got to be more proactive before something happens.

    The tenant never made us aware of the issue.  Either of them.  When we snaked the drain it was just a conventional plug and nothing out of the ordinary.  Why they never reported either of these two issues is beyond me.  It’s all done electronically and auto-dispatched with a plumber on 24/7 to fix the issue.
  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    4y

    Cut your loss and move on

  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Franklin Romine:

    Cut your loss and move on

    That’s the plan.  I was going to try and pick some brains and come up with a strategy, but it’s just easier to sell at this point.
  • Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Kris Mead:
    Quote from @Franklin Romine:

    Cut your loss and move on

    That’s the plan.  I was going to try and pick some brains and come up with a strategy, but it’s just easier to sell at this point.

     I'd agree - I think the area sucks and the bad tenants are just a byproduct of that. 

    Unless something major is happening to revitalize the area (I don't believe there is) I don't think it's worth keeping.

    On top of that, class C/D areas should cashflow WAY more - there's much more inherent risk - so you need the extra cashflow to mitigate that risk (which is doesn't sound like you're getting)

    Also you have to tenant proof these areas - so my sinks and bathtubs all have grids installed where the drain is. These kinds of things prevent the tenant from putting anything down there. I do cement flooring because they can't crack a tile, scratch it etc etc. Make it as simple and stupid proof as you can

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Kris Mead:
    Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

    The toilet was running and they never reported it they were also having issues with the sewer drain plugging up and sometimes backing up into the tub which they were able to fix on their own most of time but obviously the issue was never resolved because it kept coming back. ---> I found this to be very strange, so you know already you have this problem but don't actively make a permanent solution ? have you tried hydrojetting before? is there clean cleanout in sewer systems ??

    Anything related to sewer is a bit scary, we got to be more proactive before something happens.

    The tenant never made us aware of the issue.  Either of them.  When we snaked the drain it was just a conventional plug and nothing out of the ordinary.  Why they never reported either of these two issues is beyond me.  It’s all done electronically and auto-dispatched with a plumber on 24/7 to fix the issue.

     Try hydrojetting the sewer now and do a sewer cam inspection. Snake is not that powerful. Install the cleanout system if it doesn't exist.

    Any plumbing issue is scary unlike electricity.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jeremy Horton:
    Quote from @Kris Mead:
    Quote from @Franklin Romine:

    Cut your loss and move on

    That’s the plan.  I was going to try and pick some brains and come up with a strategy, but it’s just easier to sell at this point.

     I'd agree - I think the area sucks and the bad tenants are just a byproduct of that. 

    Unless something major is happening to revitalize the area (I don't believe there is) I don't think it's worth keeping.

    On top of that, class C/D areas should cashflow WAY more - there's much more inherent risk - so you need the extra cashflow to mitigate that risk (which is doesn't sound like you're getting)

    Also you have to tenant proof these areas - so my sinks and bathtubs all have grids installed where the drain is. These kinds of things prevent the tenant from putting anything down there. I do cement flooring because they can't crack a tile, scratch it etc etc. Make it as simple and stupid proof as you can


     It initially was cash flowing quite a bit but given the doubling of the insurance after the flood, my margin is lower and selling it eliminates that headache as well.

  • Member since 2022 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    4y

    @Kris Mead

    This sounds like a PM issue. If they are doing their job, they should be screening the potential tenants sufficiently to prevent most of what you described. Finding a good PM can be tough, I've seen some horror stories in regards to property condition that went unreported for years.

    Find a better PM.

  • Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    4y

    I agree with most here that your PM is the problem. Screening and getting good tenants in is probably the most important job a landlord and PM can do outside of buying the property for a good deal. Nowadays you need to screen tenants with a fine comb. Imagine yourself as a bank lender and amount of documentation they require to get a loan. That is pretty much what I do now when i screen tenants is to paint a clear picture of everything they own/income/credit. I ask for bank statements/income statements/proof of payment to last landlord..etc. If all these tenants are having financial trouble outside of the flood one then that means your PM obviously didn't pick a tenant who was well qualfied. PM's in general don't have as much in stake since the property isn't their own so if you could self manage at least the tenant screening part i would at least have your PM pass over all the documentation of the tenant to you first before you give them the OK to move in. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @JD Martin:
    You should never expect anyone or anything to be able to fix a house in a bad location. Location makes up for a lot of other sins when it comes to properties, but generally not the other way around. That's why there are still mansions in the Detroit area filled with junkies and trees growing out of the roofs. It's probably *not* your PM and frankly I'm surprised you even have a PM since most don't want to be bothered working D areas.

    I ran a quick zip report and the median household income is $29k. Almost 60% of the housing is vacant or renter occupied. Only 33% of the homes are family occupied. 60% of the zip code is either part time or unemployed. Those are some seriously bad numbers.

     What zip report site did you use?

    I just invest locally so I know the area - but that is some badass data that census provides. Another good tool to screen properties more thoroughly 

  • Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    To me it sounds like you hit the perfect storm all at once. I have had my share. To me, the main problem is your incompetent PM. I assume all your other properties are in better areas. If so, of course they can handle them. Most can. In the bad areas most legitimate PMs will tell you they don't service those areas. You will have to search and search until you can find one who is competent enough to do it. I couldnt and had to manage mine from Afghanistan. Ignore people who tell you it's impossible to get good tenants in a bad area. I would never take advice from them. It takes longer, skills, ability, diligence and strategy. Its obvious your PM did a terrible job at screening and managing the situation. Another element which contributed to your storm is the bad area itself. As stated, you can get good tenants and manage them effectively but you have to know what you are doing. The other end to your storm is the tenants not reporting stuff so it could be addressed. Sorry this happend but that is how it goes sometimes. If you are out of town it may be very hard to find the right PM. Also, if you are not making wide cash flow the effort may not be worth it and you may want to cut your losses. If you do chose to roll with it, it can be very intense and time consuming. It's critical that you get a professional and competent team on the ground who gives a **** and has the ability to execute an intelligent strategy.   

  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 73 posts · 17 votes
    4y

    @Kris Mead

    If it makes decent cash flow I would seller finance it to someone.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Mark Cruse:

    To me it sounds like you hit the perfect storm all at once. I have had my share. To me, the main problem is your incompetent PM. I assume all your other properties are in better areas. If so, of course they can handle them. Most can. In the bad areas most legitimate PMs will tell you they don't service those areas. You will have to search and search until you can find one who is competent enough to do it. I couldnt and had to manage mine from Afghanistan. Ignore people who tell you it's impossible to get good tenants in a bad area. I would never take advice from them. It takes longer, skills, ability, diligence and strategy. Its obvious your PM did a terrible job at screening and managing the situation. Another element which contributed to your storm is the bad area itself. As stated, you can get good tenants and manage them effectively but you have to know what you are doing. The other end to your storm is the tenants not reporting stuff so it could be addressed. Sorry this happend but that is how it goes sometimes. If you are out of town it may be very hard to find the right PM. Also, if you are not making wide cash flow the effort may not be worth it and you may want to cut your losses. If you do chose to roll with it, it can be very intense and time consuming. It's critical that you get a professional and competent team on the ground who gives a **** and has the ability to execute an intelligent strategy.   

    I agree.  It’s partially my fault as I planned on getting down there at least once a year and then Covid happened.  Add in the constant stream of issues and it kind of burned me out slightly.
  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Julian Broyles:

    @Kris Mead

    If it makes decent cash flow I would seller finance it to someone.

    It would cash flow rather nicely with a decent tenant especially since rents have gone up since purchase.  I’m getting hosed a bit on the insurance side, but that is leveling off a bit.  At this point we are just going to list it traditionally and figure out where we go from there.
  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 319 posts · 330 votes
    4y
    Out of state investing can be relatively trouble free when you're renting expensive houses to successful people, or when you have a large building / complex with onsite management.

    When you're renting cheap houses in questionable neighborhoods to poor people, you need to be from there.
  • Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 261 posts · 253 votes
    4y

    Hopefully someone lurking here will read this and be warned about buying out-of-state in these rough areas where they're blinded by the 'returns' they'll never actualize because the reality of the area hits them.  I run across newer clients all the time that want to buy in terrible spots and don't listen to anything I say.  "But, MY NUMBERS?!"  Yeah, good luck getting those with 4 tenants/year in each door, each one taking the wiring and condenser.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Hi Kris,

    If you believe you are looking for a needle in a haystack maybe this zip is not for you.

    If you believe you can find a needle in a haystack, maybe this zip is for you.

    Good Luck!

  • Member since 2022 · 18 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    Looks like a combination of bad PM not properly screening the tenants and bad location. Those 2 factors will kill a out of state investors dream.

  • Patrick DruryBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH & Cleveland OH · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Kris Mead
    Just sell it vacant. Trying to put another tenant in there will just result in another headache. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Scott Mac:

    Hi Kris,

    If you believe you are looking for a needle in a haystack maybe this zip is not for you.

    If you believe you can find a needle in a haystack, maybe this zip is for you.

    Good Luck!

    Haha.  Neither of those!
  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Patrick Drury:

    @Kris Mead
    Just sell it vacant. Trying to put another tenant in there will just result in another headache. 

    Absolutely.  The tenant is moving out now.
  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y

    thank you

  • Rental Property Investor · Hopewell Junction, NY · Member since 2019 · 81 posts · 38 votes
    4y

    If anyone has any PM recommendations in the Little Rock area and doesn’t mind messaging me, I would appreciate it!


    Sorry if this posts twice.  This website on mobile is terrible.

  • Hadar OrkibiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · USA / NZ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 812 votes
    4y

    Talk to The Hoffman Team at River Rock Realy.... Jamie Hoffman and David. 

  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 73 posts · 17 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Kris Mead:
    Quote from @Julian Broyles:

    @Kris Mead

    Following back, how did that work out?

    If it makes decent cash flow I would seller finance it to someone.

    It would cash flow rather nicely with a decent tenant especially since rents have gone up since purchase.  I’m getting hosed a bit on the insurance side, but that is leveling off a bit.  At this point we are just going to list it traditionally and figure out where we go from there.

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