Angry sellers not returning earnest money

Angry sellers not returning earnest money

Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes

This is not my first time finding out that a property I had UC had too many deferred conditions. But it's the first time I'm not getting my earnest money back.

The sellers accused me of acting in bad faith. However, their MLS listing stated the house was a 4-bedroom, and the 4th bedroom was in a partially finished basement, had no door, no light switch, no closet, and egress was not compliant with code. Also the so called bedroom was adjacent to the location of the room with the gas furnace & water heater and AC, and I was told that if the furnace was drawing air from the adjacent "bedroom" it could not be used as a bedroom or "office". I think that's why the entry door was not hung. I'm not sure I could get a building permit to convert this room into a bedroom.

There was only one light switch in the basement located at the bottom of the stairs and it operated both basement ceiling fixtures. (The mechanical room had a ceiling light with a pull chain.) So I should have walked away but now I'm looking at a dead loss of $5K. The property is in a very good well-maintained older location and had a lot of curb appeal. Sellers had done a fair lipstick job on the main and part of the upper floors.

The sellers installed a $50,000 solar array of 12.8 kw, which I also found out was way too much capacity in that location for the sole purpose of lowering the electric bill. The MLS listing also stated that "there would never be an electric bill" but our utility doesn't refund any money, they deduct if from the cost of the other utilities. There is always at least a $17/month basic service fee. So more BS in the MLS listing.

The sellers borrowed the money to pay for the solar array. I was surprised that they were able to borrow the total price. If it had been a leased system I would not have made an offer.

It took the listing agent about 10 days to respond to my requests for the sellers utility bills so i would be able to see how the solar  system performed. She never asked the sellers to provide them, according to my broker.  And there was no other way to learn how the system functioned. This foot dragging made it really difficult to do any realistic cash flow projections.

As an interesting side piece of data, the (currently getting divorced) sellers borrowed the $50K for the solar system, so they owned it, and it went live this February. They separated and moved out in May this year. Prior to that they had installed a beautiful, very expensive xeriscape landscape front and back, which is a joy to look at, and which also must have sapped their finances in addition to a new furnace, new roof, new central AC, and cosmetics in the interior of the house (LVT & tile etc).

I plan to call a few attorneys to try to determine what my liability would be because the sellers have stated their plan to take me to court if I challenge them.

What's your quick opinion, should I avoid the stress of litigation? Do I have a case?  According to my broker, they can't try to get more money out of me than the earnest money. But if I got legal representation and lost I have all kinds of very expensive liability.

I definitely think they snookered me by withholding the truth and the facts of the solar deal they made. 

Thanks much for reading this far. Maybe I should stay out of the market for a while.

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Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
3y

If you cancelled properly during your inspection period, the seller will have no grounds to keep any of your EM. You don't even need to provide a reason in CO, you can simply say "buyer is terminating based on inspection". So whatever your reason is, they can't keep any of the EM just because they disagree with it. 

However contracts don't enforce themselves and sometimes people do unreasonable things. The title company can't release the EM to you until the seller signs the release. The next step would be to go to mediation and then if that doesn't work, getting lawyers involved and suing each other. Have your agent tell their agent that they have no grounds to keep any of the EM (assuming you terminated properly within your inspection window), that they will likely lose if it goes to litigation, and that the loser pays both lawyers. Plus they won't be able to sell the property until your contract is mutually terminated/ EM released. Usually making these points is enough to get the seller to sign the EM release. Good luck! 

We've had a lot of deals falling out recently thanks to the shifting market (buyers and sellers both think the market is in their favor right now) and what I've done a few times is to schedule the inspection date before delivering the EM, when possible. For example I recently made an offer on a Friday morning, with acceptance deadline that night. Title companies are closed over the weekend and it's customary to have 2-3 business days after contract acceptance to deliver the EM. So we set the EM deadline for Tuesday and inspected over the weekend. If we decided not to move forward after inspection, we could simply terminate and not deliver the EM. This way there is no risk of an EM dispute, title work hasn't been started, appraisal/survey hasn't been ordered, etc. and it's a much cleaner breakup. The timeframe doesn't always work out like this, but if you'd like to avoid running into this issue again then you might consider inspecting before delivering your EM if possible. Just food for thought.

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  • Realtor · Santa Ana, CA · Member since 2014 · 131 posts · 111 votes
    3y

    Hi Jane, the California Real Estate purchase agreement gives timeframes  for the Buyer’s inspections and due diligence. We also have timeframes for the Seller’s disclosures with time given to the Buyer for their review.

    If the Buyer isn’t comfortable with the inspections and disclosures, they can request additional time to investigate the situation.

    If the Buyer finds that the repairs are excessive or information in the disclosures are unacceptable, they can cancel the agreement within the allotted time specified in the contract and receive a refund on their escrow deposit minus any escrow or title fees incurred.

    I would recommend that an experienced Real Estate Attorney review your purchase contract and hopefully help you cancel this deal and get your deposit back.

    * Note * In California, the Buyer’s review time is extended if additional disclosures are provided by the Sellers beyond the allotted time in the contract. 




  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Jane S.

    Depends on what your contract states. Do you have an agent? They should be able to advise you on this it if not then definitely get an attorney to resolve this

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  • Property Manager · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    What does your Broker say? Thats who I would defer to.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes
    3y

    Thanks, he says it's up to me to decide whether to fight or walk. Not very helpful.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes
    3y

    Hi Winston,

    I already canceled the contract within allotted time but sellers are keeping the escrow deposit.They offered $2000 which isnt enough to create a compliant 4th bedroom in another part of the basement. Of course there is no plumbing on that level. I would have thought the MLS requires sellers to state the truth about their listings.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes
    3y

    Also I have seen many local mLS listings that state a room "could be a non compliant bedroom". Which these sellers didnt.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes
    3y

    Also I have seen many local mLS listings that state a room "could be a non compliant bedroom". Which these sellers didnt.

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    3y

    You didnt need an inspector to tell you about the bedroom. So you are cancelling the contract based upon easily viewable conditions. So not nessecarily surprised.

    Did you write the offer site unseen or something?

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y

    Tell your agent that they need to push the seller's agent to get the money back.

    You mentioned in your post that this isn't the first time you've put in an offer and then not completed due to something you discovered.  Some of what you mentioned would have been obvious during the walk through (eg 4th bedroom).  Other things like the solar panel, you may not have known enough about to know it produced more than you needed (which is actually a good thing as then you get money back from the electrical company even if that goes to paying other utilities).

  • Investor · Member since 2023 · 118 posts · 61 votes
    3y

    @Jane S.

    Sorry, I just noticed you are in CO. This may still apply however. Look closely at your contract.

    If you used the California Association of Realtors (CAR) purchase agreement and elected the (default) active contingency removal, you have the right to cancel via the inspection contingency for any or no reason, you don't have to specify a reason.  It appears you cancelled correctly.

    Your deposit should be in escrow by now.  They are required to hold the deposit until release form both buyer and seller.

    Your agent should have explained this to you.  Sometimes they don't know the contract and sometimes they aren't motivated to explain because they are watching their commission evaporate.

    Sellers are going to have a difficult time reselling until they release the deposit. The MLS listing should disclose your open escrow discouraging buyers, thereby motivating sellers to release, as they should.

    I've seen timid buyers bullied by their agents to buy, only realizing it after purchase.

    The standard CAR contract is written to protect buyer.

    It's hard to know your situation exactly but this is the way I'm reading your post.  Things may be vastly different then it appears.

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    What is the escrow company telling you?

    If you are in contract compliance and it says refund to you....why have they not done so?

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    Did you cancel during your inspection period? That will make a big difference here. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y

    @Jane S. nobody here can speak with any direct insight into this situation unless you presented the contract for our review. 

    I find your brokers actions most telling. If you had a fight, why wouldn't they be fighting it? There response sounds like by contract terms you messed up, no contingency allowing for escape. 

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    If you cancelled properly during your inspection period, the seller will have no grounds to keep any of your EM. You don't even need to provide a reason in CO, you can simply say "buyer is terminating based on inspection". So whatever your reason is, they can't keep any of the EM just because they disagree with it. 

    However contracts don't enforce themselves and sometimes people do unreasonable things. The title company can't release the EM to you until the seller signs the release. The next step would be to go to mediation and then if that doesn't work, getting lawyers involved and suing each other. Have your agent tell their agent that they have no grounds to keep any of the EM (assuming you terminated properly within your inspection window), that they will likely lose if it goes to litigation, and that the loser pays both lawyers. Plus they won't be able to sell the property until your contract is mutually terminated/ EM released. Usually making these points is enough to get the seller to sign the EM release. Good luck! 

    We've had a lot of deals falling out recently thanks to the shifting market (buyers and sellers both think the market is in their favor right now) and what I've done a few times is to schedule the inspection date before delivering the EM, when possible. For example I recently made an offer on a Friday morning, with acceptance deadline that night. Title companies are closed over the weekend and it's customary to have 2-3 business days after contract acceptance to deliver the EM. So we set the EM deadline for Tuesday and inspected over the weekend. If we decided not to move forward after inspection, we could simply terminate and not deliver the EM. This way there is no risk of an EM dispute, title work hasn't been started, appraisal/survey hasn't been ordered, etc. and it's a much cleaner breakup. The timeframe doesn't always work out like this, but if you'd like to avoid running into this issue again then you might consider inspecting before delivering your EM if possible. Just food for thought.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes
    3y

    thats really smart about scheduling EM for the weekend! thanks for that. I am just letting it go, 😆 too much stress

  • Realtor · Santa Ana, CA · Member since 2014 · 131 posts · 111 votes
    3y

    Jane, I wouldn't let it go as the  Sellers are acting in bad faith. I would at the very least, take them to small claims court. It's inexpensive to file, Attorneys are not allowed ( it's known as the " People's Court " and you can normally get a court date within 30 days of filing.  Give it a shot as I feel that  you have a strong chance of  winning.

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jane S.:

    thats really smart about scheduling EM for the weekend! thanks for that. I am just letting it go, 😆 too much stress


    • If you don’t feel like dealing with it, you can also just wait it out. The title company should not release the earnest money to the seller. They will usually hold the money and wait for resolution of any court action between you and the seller, then if they don’t receive notice of a resolution after a certain time period (120 days for the title company I usually work with) they will return the earnest money to the Buyer. Check out the contract, section 24 is about this. This is all assuming that you terminated cleanly within your inspection window of course. 
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    3y

    Did you use a title company?   assuming you cancelled during contingency period, which if seller does not provide requested information gets extended, then it does not matter what seller wants, they will not get the EM from the title company unless you authorize it.  It will also place hurdles on selling the property.  

    If you used a title company you are in the driver’s seat.  Just do not have the title company release the EM.  The seller will release the EM as they will find it challenging to proceed with the selling the property.  

    I would not write it off as you likely have to do nothing to get your EM.  Seller may not be thrilled but so what.  

    Good luck

  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Please, don't "let it go". You're setting up the next prospective buyer for a disaster. Get a lawyer and threaten them with papers (if you followed the the contract correctly). 

    We had buyers bail on an offer earlier this year. They signed a contract then never submitted EM. We waited 4 days and then canceled the contract. It ended up costing us 2 weeks until we went pending again. We found out it was the 2nd time they pulled that stunt so the buyers agent fired them. You can't be indecisive in this industry! 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jane S.:

    This is not my first time finding out that a property I had UC had too many deferred conditions. But it's the first time I'm not getting my earnest money back.

    The sellers accused me of acting in bad faith. However, their MLS listing stated the house was a 4-bedroom, and the 4th bedroom was in a partially finished basement, had no door, no light switch, no closet, and egress was not compliant with code. Also the so called bedroom was adjacent to the location of the room with the gas furnace & water heater and AC, and I was told that if the furnace was drawing air from the adjacent "bedroom" it could not be used as a bedroom or "office". I think that's why the entry door was not hung. I'm not sure I could get a building permit to convert this room into a bedroom.

    There was only one light switch in the basement located at the bottom of the stairs and it operated both basement ceiling fixtures. (The mechanical room had a ceiling light with a pull chain.) So I should have walked away but now I'm looking at a dead loss of $5K. The property is in a very good well-maintained older location and had a lot of curb appeal. Sellers had done a fair lipstick job on the main and part of the upper floors.

    The sellers installed a $50,000 solar array of 12.8 kw, which I also found out was way too much capacity in that location for the sole purpose of lowering the electric bill. The MLS listing also stated that "there would never be an electric bill" but our utility doesn't refund any money, they deduct if from the cost of the other utilities. There is always at least a $17/month basic service fee. So more BS in the MLS listing.

    The sellers borrowed the money to pay for the solar array. I was surprised that they were able to borrow the total price. If it had been a leased system I would not have made an offer.

    It took the listing agent about 10 days to respond to my requests for the sellers utility bills so i would be able to see how the solar  system performed. She never asked the sellers to provide them, according to my broker.  And there was no other way to learn how the system functioned. This foot dragging made it really difficult to do any realistic cash flow projections.

    As an interesting side piece of data, the (currently getting divorced) sellers borrowed the $50K for the solar system, so they owned it, and it went live this February. They separated and moved out in May this year. Prior to that they had installed a beautiful, very expensive xeriscape landscape front and back, which is a joy to look at, and which also must have sapped their finances in addition to a new furnace, new roof, new central AC, and cosmetics in the interior of the house (LVT & tile etc).

    I plan to call a few attorneys to try to determine what my liability would be because the sellers have stated their plan to take me to court if I challenge them.

    What's your quick opinion, should I avoid the stress of litigation? Do I have a case?  According to my broker, they can't try to get more money out of me than the earnest money. But if I got legal representation and lost I have all kinds of very expensive liability.

    I definitely think they snookered me by withholding the truth and the facts of the solar deal they made. 

    Thanks much for reading this far. Maybe I should stay out of the market for a while.


     I will say it for the 100 x!! WHY are so many putting in offers WITHOUT walking the properties, TOTAL waste of time?  How can anyone put an offer in withOUT knowing the reno or all details about the property? Makes ZERO sense to me how so many are just wasting time. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y

    In my state, the earnest money deposit is held forever until both parties agree. If it were me, I would tell the Sellers (through my broker) that they can't list the house for sale with someone else as long as they are withholding the earnest money and trying to force you to move forward with the sale. See if that motivates them.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jane S.:

    This is not my first time finding out that a property I had UC had too many deferred conditions. But it's the first time I'm not getting my earnest money back.

    The sellers accused me of acting in bad faith. However, their MLS listing stated the house was a 4-bedroom, and the 4th bedroom was in a partially finished basement, had no door, no light switch, no closet, and egress was not compliant with code. Also the so called bedroom was adjacent to the location of the room with the gas furnace & water heater and AC, and I was told that if the furnace was drawing air from the adjacent "bedroom" it could not be used as a bedroom or "office". I think that's why the entry door was not hung. I'm not sure I could get a building permit to convert this room into a bedroom.

    There was only one light switch in the basement located at the bottom of the stairs and it operated both basement ceiling fixtures. (The mechanical room had a ceiling light with a pull chain.) So I should have walked away but now I'm looking at a dead loss of $5K. The property is in a very good well-maintained older location and had a lot of curb appeal. Sellers had done a fair lipstick job on the main and part of the upper floors.

    The sellers installed a $50,000 solar array of 12.8 kw, which I also found out was way too much capacity in that location for the sole purpose of lowering the electric bill. The MLS listing also stated that "there would never be an electric bill" but our utility doesn't refund any money, they deduct if from the cost of the other utilities. There is always at least a $17/month basic service fee. So more BS in the MLS listing.

    The sellers borrowed the money to pay for the solar array. I was surprised that they were able to borrow the total price. If it had been a leased system I would not have made an offer.

    It took the listing agent about 10 days to respond to my requests for the sellers utility bills so i would be able to see how the solar  system performed. She never asked the sellers to provide them, according to my broker.  And there was no other way to learn how the system functioned. This foot dragging made it really difficult to do any realistic cash flow projections.

    As an interesting side piece of data, the (currently getting divorced) sellers borrowed the $50K for the solar system, so they owned it, and it went live this February. They separated and moved out in May this year. Prior to that they had installed a beautiful, very expensive xeriscape landscape front and back, which is a joy to look at, and which also must have sapped their finances in addition to a new furnace, new roof, new central AC, and cosmetics in the interior of the house (LVT & tile etc).

    I plan to call a few attorneys to try to determine what my liability would be because the sellers have stated their plan to take me to court if I challenge them.

    What's your quick opinion, should I avoid the stress of litigation? Do I have a case?  According to my broker, they can't try to get more money out of me than the earnest money. But if I got legal representation and lost I have all kinds of very expensive liability.

    I definitely think they snookered me by withholding the truth and the facts of the solar deal they made. 

    Thanks much for reading this far. Maybe I should stay out of the market for a while.


    Yes - get an attorney on-board. Sounds like a shady seller.

    You'll always find folks in the market who aren't quite on the up-and-up.  Don't let it bother you. Take the lesson, grow the calluses and move on.

    My $0.02 ...

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    Throw in the divorce and sounds like there is a lot of emotion and potential for confusion here on their side. Formally demand return of the deposit due to the simplest possible explanation. Their broker should ultimately explain to them this isn’t in their best interest. 

  • Investor · CO · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    2y
    Frustrating for sure! What "outs" do you have left in the contract? I have been on the other side of this as a seller (in CO) where the buyer wanted out for a personal reason (unrelated to the house itself) and just used the "financing" deadline to terminate despite being pre-qualified. My agent said there wasn't anything we could do to keep the earnest money.

    As far as I know in CO, the law is tilted heavily towards favoring buyers. However, if you don't have any outs left, they can either force you to give up the earnest money or close. This doesn't mean you don't have an argument that the property was misrepresented in the MLS, but that's really outside of the contract.
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