Large oak tree under foundation - to buy or not to buy?

Investor · Kailua, HI · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes

In contract for a turnkey property in Memphis, TN. It will cost approx $4000 to remove the Oak tree based on a professional estimate. There is a bedroom above this corner of the house. The roots would still be under the house once the tree is removed. Should I move forward or withdraw?

1 Reply

160 views

Most Popular Reply

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

I think you can do better than buying a “turnkey” house with a giant tree cracking the foundation.

6 Reply

See this reply in the discussion

31 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

Glen Wiley
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2023 · 459 posts · 474 votes
2y
If the deal works then I would execute but I would include remediation costs based on an estimate from a contractor. I would not try to remove the roots immediately, give it time and watch for problems and have a plan to fix things once it shows signs that it needs attention.
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Melissa U.:

In contract for a turnkey property in Memphis, TN. It will cost approx $4000 to remove the Oak tree based on a professional estimate. There is a bedroom above this corner of the house. The roots would still be under the house once the tree is removed. Should I move forward or withdraw?

Not necessarily a deal killer IMO
Although it's against nature, the tree can be removed, the roots poisoned and there should be no damage to the foundation long term.
Just my opinion 👍
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
1 Reply
Melissa U.
OP
Investor · Kailua, HI · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
2y
Thanks for all the responses - they are helpful. Here are pictures of the foundation damage - not sure if this changes any of your thoughts...?
0 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks for all the responses - they are helpful. Here are pictures of the foundation damage - not sure if this changes any of your thoughts...?

Hi Melissa,

I'm not a fan of building inspectors lol

They make everything look very severe.

This doesn't look like anything major IMO.

Depends on how much the foundation wall has bowed in the basement.

Do you have a trusted contractor that you could ask for advice?

Building inspectors love quoting "A structural engineer" for anything and everything.

Even a dime size hole in the siding.

They kill a lot of deals with their terminology

Just my opinion.

Thanks
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks for all the responses - they are helpful. Here are pictures of the foundation damage - not sure if this changes any of your thoughts...?

Hi Melissa,

I'm not a fan of building inspectors lol

They make everything look very severe.

This doesn't look like anything major IMO.

Depends on how much the foundation wall has bowed in the basement.

Do you have a trusted contractor that you could ask for advice?

Building inspectors love quoting "A structural engineer" for anything and everything.

Even a dime size hole in the siding.

They kill a lot of deals with their terminology

Just my opinion.

Thanks

If I was betting I would say in Memphis there is no basement. again just based on my funding houses there.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
2 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks for all the responses - they are helpful. Here are pictures of the foundation damage - not sure if this changes any of your thoughts...?

Hi Melissa,

I'm not a fan of building inspectors lol

They make everything look very severe.

This doesn't look like anything major IMO.

Depends on how much the foundation wall has bowed in the basement.

Do you have a trusted contractor that you could ask for advice?

Building inspectors love quoting "A structural engineer" for anything and everything.

Even a dime size hole in the siding.

They kill a lot of deals with their terminology

Just my opinion.

Thanks

If I was betting I would say in Memphis there is no basement. again just based on my funding houses there.

True mate, this would then make it less or more severe?
We get cracks like this all the time.
Nothing a bit of duct tape can't fix lol
Jokes
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks for all the responses - they are helpful. Here are pictures of the foundation damage - not sure if this changes any of your thoughts...?

Hi Melissa,

I'm not a fan of building inspectors lol

They make everything look very severe.

This doesn't look like anything major IMO.

Depends on how much the foundation wall has bowed in the basement.

Do you have a trusted contractor that you could ask for advice?

Building inspectors love quoting "A structural engineer" for anything and everything.

Even a dime size hole in the siding.

They kill a lot of deals with their terminology

Just my opinion.

Thanks

If I was betting I would say in Memphis there is no basement. again just based on my funding houses there.

True mate, this would then make it less or more severe?
We get cracks like this all the time.
Nothing a bit of duct tape can't fix lol
Jokes

in the south you can have some nasty soils.. Like in Jackson MS with their yazoo clay that clay can make a house move 6 inches if drainage is not
done properly around the house etc. I have seen them so bad they crack in half like a humpty dumpty house.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
5 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks for all the responses - they are helpful. Here are pictures of the foundation damage - not sure if this changes any of your thoughts...?

Hi Melissa,

I'm not a fan of building inspectors lol

They make everything look very severe.

This doesn't look like anything major IMO.

Depends on how much the foundation wall has bowed in the basement.

Do you have a trusted contractor that you could ask for advice?

Building inspectors love quoting "A structural engineer" for anything and everything.

Even a dime size hole in the siding.

They kill a lot of deals with their terminology

Just my opinion.

Thanks

If I was betting I would say in Memphis there is no basement. again just based on my funding houses there.

True mate, this would then make it less or more severe?
We get cracks like this all the time.
Nothing a bit of duct tape can't fix lol
Jokes

in the south you can have some nasty soils.. Like in Jackson MS with their yazoo clay that clay can make a house move 6 inches if drainage is not
done properly around the house etc. I have seen them so bad they crack in half like a humpty dumpty house.

Ok, so maybe a structural engineer from NASA is needed for this one then? lol
Can it be fixed from the exterior and reinforced from interior?
I'm assuming it's a crawl space, yeah?
I don't know much about properties in those markets.
Just know Toledo and the leaky basements during heavy rain but that's kinda normal for us.
Nobody spends $20,000 - $30,000 re-doing basements on these older homes
Grazie
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks for all the responses - they are helpful. Here are pictures of the foundation damage - not sure if this changes any of your thoughts...?

Hi Melissa,

I'm not a fan of building inspectors lol

They make everything look very severe.

This doesn't look like anything major IMO.

Depends on how much the foundation wall has bowed in the basement.

Do you have a trusted contractor that you could ask for advice?

Building inspectors love quoting "A structural engineer" for anything and everything.

Even a dime size hole in the siding.

They kill a lot of deals with their terminology

Just my opinion.

Thanks

If I was betting I would say in Memphis there is no basement. again just based on my funding houses there.

True mate, this would then make it less or more severe?
We get cracks like this all the time.
Nothing a bit of duct tape can't fix lol
Jokes

in the south you can have some nasty soils.. Like in Jackson MS with their yazoo clay that clay can make a house move 6 inches if drainage is not
done properly around the house etc. I have seen them so bad they crack in half like a humpty dumpty house.

Ok, so maybe a structural engineer from NASA is needed for this one then? lol
Can it be fixed from the exterior and reinforced from interior?
I'm assuming it's a crawl space, yeah?
I don't know much about properties in those markets.
Just know Toledo and the leaky basements during heavy rain but that's kinda normal for us.
Nobody spends $20,000 - $30,000 re-doing basements on these older homes
Grazie

this is clearly an inspector doing a CYA .. and of course scares the heck out of buyers .. if thats all the cracks there are then just fill them.
if the house is out of plumb doors dont work right cabnets etc then thats a different story.
leaking basement in Ohio Never .. cant be !!
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
3 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
2y
What does the damage look like under the house? Is there a crawl space where you can see the other side of the foundation?
How much is the house? and knowing it is about $4K to remove the tree, does it still make sense financially to buy the house?
3 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
I think you can do better than buying a “turnkey” house with a giant tree cracking the foundation.
6 Reply
Melissa U.
OP
Investor · Kailua, HI · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
2y
Thanks,really appreciate all of your perspectives. We'll take it back to the seller and see if they will cover any of the $4000 cost for removal - then decide whether to move forward. There is no crawl space but there are some minor cracks in the foundation already. The tree can be removed but even if they grind the stump it may not be completely gone. Will wait to see what the seller says. If I have to pay the full amount I would lose 2-3 years of cashflow. Womp womp.

0 Reply
Glen Wiley
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2023 · 459 posts · 474 votes
2y
Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks,really appreciate all of your perspectives. We'll take it back to the seller and see if they will cover any of the $4000 cost for removal - then decide whether to move forward. There is no crawl space but there are some minor cracks in the foundation already. The tree can be removed but even if they grind the stump it may not be completely gone. Will wait to see what the seller says. If I have to pay the full amount I would lose 2-3 years of cashflow. Womp womp

If $4000 is 3 years cash flow this is probably not a good deal.
I have a minimum cash flow requirement of about $4000/year due to the cost of things like roof, HVAC, vacancy, painting etc.
Have you penciled the deal out to make sure it makes sense?
4 Reply
Nicholas L.Pro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y
@Melissa U.
i have to assume this property is not turnkey as turnkey by definition means that no major work is required...
what's the interior like? do you own other rentals in Memphis? do you have a team set up?
4 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Glen Wiley:

Quote from @Melissa U.:

Thanks,really appreciate all of your perspectives. We'll take it back to the seller and see if they will cover any of the $4000 cost for removal - then decide whether to move forward. There is no crawl space but there are some minor cracks in the foundation already. The tree can be removed but even if they grind the stump it may not be completely gone. Will wait to see what the seller says. If I have to pay the full amount I would lose 2-3 years of cashflow. Womp womp

If $4000 is 3 years cash flow this is probably not a good deal.
I have a minimum cash flow requirement of about $4000/year due to the cost of things like roof, HVAC, vacancy, painting etc.
Have you penciled the deal out to make sure it makes sense?

Agreed,

Or too much leverage is being used which kills the return.
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
John Teachout
Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Oak tree stumps/roots do not generally live if the tree is removed. It's hard to tell from pics of course but the cracking doesn't look that severe to me. Is the house on a slab? The tree situation wouldn't keep me from purchasing the house if the deal was good enough to cover mitigation. I have a number of houses on slabs and they all have cracks. So if you remove the tree, whatever damage there is won't get worse. You don't have to get the stump and roots "gone", they'll eventually rot away (maybe even in your lifetime)
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@Melissa U.
i have to assume this property is not turnkey as turnkey by definition means that no major work is required...
what's the interior like? do you own other rentals in Memphis? do you have a team set up?

Agreed,

Should have been removed during rehab process but sometimes it can be missed.

Rehabbed hundreds and many times the crews miss stuff so not completely on the seller.

I always tell our investors to have common sense when doing a building inspection.

Anything that can affect the long term sustainability of the property like foundation, roof, mechanics, HWH, furnace, electrical, plumbing is on us.

Any cosmetic stuff that won't really affect rent or cashflow is up to negotiation.

If investor is adamant on being fixed, we will fix but at a cost.

There is no such thing as perfection on 50-100 year old homes.

The demographic in my area also doesn't require perfection.

If they do, we don't rent to such folks and advise the suburbs which come at a 3x monthly rent compared to the city.

The tree should be removed by the seller and foundation addressed.

Doesn't look too major to me anyway.

Thanks
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
1 Reply
Chris ClothierBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Account Closed:

I think you can do better than buying a “turnkey” house with a giant tree cracking the foundation.

As I read through this thread this is the exact thought that went through my head. I kept thinking who in their right mind would sell this to an out of state investor and think that leaving that tree was ok?
Podcast Guest on Show #224
REI Nation4.577 Reviews
Website View Page
1 Reply
Taz Zettergren
Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 365 posts · 264 votes
2y
This is exactly why I'm not a huge fan of the word turnkey, it's more of a marketing word nowadays vs it's actual meaning. I don't consider this turnkey given there's a tree growing into the house. I would remove any tree this size that's within 10 ft of the foundation of the home. The pictures you uploaded of cracks isn't concerning to me, imo those are cosmetic and not affecting the foundation itself, that said I'm no engineer. As others have already mentioned I'd request the seller to remove the tree, fill in the cracks so it's cosmetically pleasing and close the deal if it's a house that matches your criteria.
1 Reply
Henry T.
Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Cut it down to the ground(today) and don't worry about it. stop growing trees near houses in the future.
1 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Chris Clothier:

Quote from @Account Closed:

I think you can do better than buying a “turnkey” house with a giant tree cracking the foundation.

As I read through this thread this is the exact thought that went through my head. I kept thinking who in their right mind would sell this to an out of state investor and think that leaving that tree was ok?

Alfresco dining mate hehe
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
2y
It does not matter what the pictures show on the outside of the stem wall. What does the crawlspace look like? Show us the pictures. Are the piers and posts in good shape of easily repairable? What does the floor and/or sub-floor look like? Any displacement in the house? How are the walls in that area? How does the attic look?
If you do move forward, don't just have the tree cut down to the stump...drill way down into the stump and pump in poison...I've found that trees always come back. Get a Foundation Contractor or an old General Contractor to give it a look too.
Based on what you're showing us here and no other info, I'd say pass. As was said, I'd think you could do better given this issue and the low CF....
2 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Taz Zettergren:

This is exactly why I'm not a huge fan of the word turnkey, it's more of a marketing word nowadays vs it's actual meaning. I don't consider this turnkey given there's a tree growing into the house. I would remove any tree this size that's within 10 ft of the foundation of the home. The pictures you uploaded of cracks isn't concerning to me, imo those are cosmetic and not affecting the foundation itself, that said I'm no engineer. As others have already mentioned I'd request the seller to remove the tree, fill in the cracks so it's cosmetically pleasing and close the deal if it's a house that matches your criteria.

Agreed mate.

Too many variations and mud thrown on the word over the years.

Maybe we should come up with a new phrase lol

Something on the lines of "House Hacking" and "BRRR" 🤷‍♂️

"Fully Renovated And Tenanted"

"FRAT" property investing lol

Cut the FAT and invest in FRAT haha
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
2 Reply
Chris ClothierBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Somehow I'm not sure "Frat House" is going to work with consumers, lol! @Engelo Rumora
Podcast Guest on Show #224
REI Nation4.577 Reviews
Website View Page
3 Reply
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Chris Clothier:

Somehow I'm not sure "Frat House" is going to work with consumers, lol! @Engelo Rumora

It was either FRAT or CRAC
"Completely Renovated And Tenanted"
So I chose FRAT hahaha
Podcast Guest on Show #89
Oz Realty4.5369 Reviews
Website View Page
3 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.