Door count is a terrible metric. Please stop using it.

Buying & Selling Real Estate
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Door count is a terrible metric. Please stop using it.

Dave MeyerPro Member
Head of Real Estate Investing at BiggerPockets · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 224 posts · 826 votes

Door count is the worst (commonly discussed) metric in the real estate investing community. Why does everyone use it? Can we all decide to collectively kill it? Or are there some of you out there that stand by door count being a useful barometer of success? Honestly, I'd love to hear the argument for why this metric is useful, cause I can't think of one -- so please reply back here. 

Here's my argument. Door count is what many in the analytics world would call a 'vanity metric.' It's something that looks important and fancy,  but doesn't actually tell you anything about business performance. Sound familiar?  It's because door count is a useless metric, it exists to pump up the ego of the investor, and nothing more. Here's why: 

1. Door count tells you exactly nothing about the quality of a portfolio. As an example, let's say Jane T. Investor has 12 doors, and she leads with that when networking. Well 12 doors sounds solid, but how are they performing? Are they cash flowing? Do they require enormous amounts of time and maintenance? Are the returns as good as what other investors in your market/asset class are generating? I know people with huge door counts who lose money every month. What good is a 'door' if it doesn't generate returns? Tell me how efficiently your deals generate returns, and then I'll be impressed. 

2. Prioritizing door count makes you focus on the wrong thing. If I wanted to get 100 doors in the next few years, I bet I could -- but you can bet many of those deals would be thin. Shouldn't we be prioritizing quality over quantity?  If I could choose between earning $5,000/month from 10 doors, or from 5 doors, I would pick 5 doors all day long! Good metrics push you towards good decision making, and door count does the opposite. For a lot of people getting lots of doors would be detrimental to their strategy! 

3. Don't even get me started on passive investor door counts. They're absurd. I invest in multifamily syndications as well as residential properties. On the passive side of my portfolio, I am in syndications that collectively own over 2,000 units. Does that mean I own 2,000 units? Of course not, claiming so would be ridiculous (don't tell people on Instagram, though). If I own 1% of those syndications, does thatmean I own 20 units? I have no idea, nor do I care. Why on earth do I care what % of the doors I own? I care about actual measurements of returns like CoCR, AAROI, and IRR to determine if my portfolio is doing well.

There's my argument -- but I want to be proven wrong. Someone explain to me why this metric is useful. 

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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
2y

Met a guy at BPCon one year who was bragging a bit about his door count.  He had about 100. He asked me how many doors I had. It was probably in the 15 range or something like that. He said, don't worry you'll get to where I am some day.

I asked him what his average value per door was and what that added up to in assets under management. It was $50k and $5,000,000. He asked me the same. Mine was $750k per door at about $11 million AUM.  His smugness disappeared really quickly.

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  • Kevin Sobilo
    Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Dave Meyer, while I think there is some truth to what you are saying I think you go a little bit too far.

    1. Most investors are probably small and looking for similar deals one after another because it fits their buy box and comfort zone. So, in my experience I have not seen people add doors just for vanity.

    2. It's a simple and understandable number when speaking to anyone even those who aren't investors and you can call it "vanity", but others might feel it motivating in that seeing their successes simply like that and it might help encourage them to press forward even when things are difficult. Mindset matters and not everyone is super analytical to calculate and use other metrics on a daily basis.

    3. I disagree somewhat with your #2. Someone might wish to make the same cash-flow with double the doors because they generate SUBSTANTIALLY more wealth in the long run from mortgage pay-down and market appreciation with the increased doors and increased use of leverage.

    4. I think you are somewhat off on #4 as well. If you are married and you buy a new house together do you tell people "I just bought this great new house" or do you tell people "I just bought half a house", or do you say "My partner (wife) and I just bought a great new house"??? So, why can't an investor in a syndication say "My partners and I bought 2000 units over the past several years"? I don't see anything wrong with that as an investor hearing that realizes that they may own 1% or 50% of that deal.


    So, while I agree door count isn't a useful metric for making day to day decisions, I don't think its the plague you seem to believe it to be.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    Met a guy at BPCon one year who was bragging a bit about his door count.  He had about 100. He asked me how many doors I had. It was probably in the 15 range or something like that. He said, don't worry you'll get to where I am some day.

    I asked him what his average value per door was and what that added up to in assets under management. It was $50k and $5,000,000. He asked me the same. Mine was $750k per door at about $11 million AUM.  His smugness disappeared really quickly.

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  • Evan Polaski
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Dave Meyer, perspective matters.  I tend to agree with you, but that is my perspective.

    Let's say you are trying to raise money from other people: banks, private lenders or investors.  Now, door count matters.  As an LP in a syndication with two (let's call them) identical offerings in terms of asset type, business plan, submarket, asset size, projected returns, fees, waterfall, etc.  One syndicator "owns" 300 units and the other owns 10,000 units.  Let's say this is a 400 unit apartment complex.  

    As an LP, are you more comfortable putting your $100k, $250k into a deal with someone who is more than doubling their portfolio with one deal or someone who is adding about 4% to their portfolio.

    That being said, I am having trouble coming up with any other example that it may matter, and this example falls within a very specific use case.  I would also lump "assets under management" into this line of thinking.  Not net asset value, but just raw numbers.  It does show that a group has been good at marketing to raise capital, but it could also mean they are levered up to their ears, have no cash flow, are on the brink of insolvency, etc, just at a larger scale then you or me.

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  • Dave MeyerPro Member
    OP
    Head of Real Estate Investing at BiggerPockets · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 224 posts · 826 votes
    2y

    @Evan Polaski that's a great point -- from an operator perspective it does really matter! I would want to know from a GP how many units they have under management, and for that matter how many properties my PMs on residential properties have. Thanks for that input! 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Met a guy at BPCon one year who was bragging a bit about his door count.  He had about 100. He asked me how many doors I had. It was probably in the 15 range or something like that. He said, don't worry you'll get to where I am some day.

    I asked him what his average value per door was and what that added up to in assets under management. It was $50k and $5,000,000. He asked me the same. Mine was $750k per door at about $11 million AUM.  His smugness disappeared really quickly.


    ABSOLUTLY  Quality over Quantity   Max debt compared to free and clear or lower debt. 
    Location location location.  To me the only way the 50k door would impress me is if they were free and clear.. We do have a BP member have not seen him post in a while he is in Ohio and we got to talking off line and he had at the time about 140 houses but zero debt  now thats something to talk about even if they are sub 100k houses and i dont know the values of his but I am pretty sure he was picking them up when ohio melted down during the GFC and you could get them for 20 to 40k each.
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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dave Meyer:

    Door count is the worst (commonly discussed) metric in the real estate investing community. Why does everyone use it? Can we all decide to collectively kill it? Or are there some of you out there that stand by door count being a useful barometer of success? Honestly, I'd love to hear the argument for why this metric is useful, cause I can't think of one -- so please reply back here. 

    Here's my argument. Door count is what many in the analytics world would call a 'vanity metric.' It's something that looks important and fancy,  but doesn't actually tell you anything about business performance. Sound familiar?  It's because door count is a useless metric, it exists to pump up the ego of the investor, and nothing more. Here's why: 

    1. Door count tells you exactly nothing about the quality of a portfolio. As an example, let's say Jane T. Investor has 12 doors, and she leads with that when networking. Well 12 doors sounds solid, but how are they performing? Are they cash flowing? Do they require enormous amounts of time and maintenance? Are the returns as good as what other investors in your market/asset class are generating? I know people with huge door counts who lose money every month. What good is a 'door' if it doesn't generate returns? Tell me how efficiently your deals generate returns, and then I'll be impressed. 

    2. Prioritizing door count makes you focus on the wrong thing. If I wanted to get 100 doors in the next few years, I bet I could -- but you can bet many of those deals would be thin. Shouldn't we be prioritizing quality over quantity?  If I could choose between earning $5,000/month from 10 doors, or from 5 doors, I would pick 5 doors all day long! Good metrics push you towards good decision making, and door count does the opposite. For a lot of people getting lots of doors would be detrimental to their strategy! 

    3. Don't even get me started on passive investor door counts. They're absurd. I invest in multifamily syndications as well as residential properties. On the passive side of my portfolio, I am in syndications that collectively own over 2,000 units. Does that mean I own 2,000 units? Of course not, claiming so would be ridiculous (don't tell people on Instagram, though). If I own 1% of those syndications, does thatmean I own 20 units? I have no idea, nor do I care. Why on earth do I care what % of the doors I own? I care about actual measurements of returns like CoCR, AAROI, and IRR to determine if my portfolio is doing well.

    There's my argument -- but I want to be proven wrong. Someone explain to me why this metric is useful. 

     You're not wrong. It's a made up term for BP that people use first as a bragging point and second as some sort of proof of experience and quality. Even in a syndication I don't care how many doors they have - I want to see their track record of preserving principle, returning reasonable returns, and managing their portfolio effectively and efficiently regardless of size. Frankly I'd be terrified of investing money with a syndicator with no track record that scaled up to 10,000 doors immediately, and if you look at some of the trouble going on right now with syndicates that's pretty much what has happened.

    Also, someone else here said it's a simple way to explain what you have to non investors. That's nonsense - most lay people would have no idea what you were talking about if you told them you had 50 doors. It's a term used only on other investors, and actually mostly just here as I've never heard anyone else use it at other RE functions.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @JD Martin:
    Quote from @Dave Meyer:

    Door count is the worst (commonly discussed) metric in the real estate investing community. Why does everyone use it? Can we all decide to collectively kill it? Or are there some of you out there that stand by door count being a useful barometer of success? Honestly, I'd love to hear the argument for why this metric is useful, cause I can't think of one -- so please reply back here. 

    Here's my argument. Door count is what many in the analytics world would call a 'vanity metric.' It's something that looks important and fancy,  but doesn't actually tell you anything about business performance. Sound familiar?  It's because door count is a useless metric, it exists to pump up the ego of the investor, and nothing more. Here's why: 

    1. Door count tells you exactly nothing about the quality of a portfolio. As an example, let's say Jane T. Investor has 12 doors, and she leads with that when networking. Well 12 doors sounds solid, but how are they performing? Are they cash flowing? Do they require enormous amounts of time and maintenance? Are the returns as good as what other investors in your market/asset class are generating? I know people with huge door counts who lose money every month. What good is a 'door' if it doesn't generate returns? Tell me how efficiently your deals generate returns, and then I'll be impressed. 

    2. Prioritizing door count makes you focus on the wrong thing. If I wanted to get 100 doors in the next few years, I bet I could -- but you can bet many of those deals would be thin. Shouldn't we be prioritizing quality over quantity?  If I could choose between earning $5,000/month from 10 doors, or from 5 doors, I would pick 5 doors all day long! Good metrics push you towards good decision making, and door count does the opposite. For a lot of people getting lots of doors would be detrimental to their strategy! 

    3. Don't even get me started on passive investor door counts. They're absurd. I invest in multifamily syndications as well as residential properties. On the passive side of my portfolio, I am in syndications that collectively own over 2,000 units. Does that mean I own 2,000 units? Of course not, claiming so would be ridiculous (don't tell people on Instagram, though). If I own 1% of those syndications, does thatmean I own 20 units? I have no idea, nor do I care. Why on earth do I care what % of the doors I own? I care about actual measurements of returns like CoCR, AAROI, and IRR to determine if my portfolio is doing well.

    There's my argument -- but I want to be proven wrong. Someone explain to me why this metric is useful. 

     You're not wrong. It's a made up term for BP that people use first as a bragging point and second as some sort of proof of experience and quality. Even in a syndication I don't care how many doors they have - I want to see their track record of preserving principle, returning reasonable returns, and managing their portfolio effectively and efficiently regardless of size. Frankly I'd be terrified of investing money with a syndicator with no track record that scaled up to 10,000 doors immediately, and if you look at some of the trouble going on right now with syndicates that's pretty much what has happened.

    Also, someone else here said it's a simple way to explain what you have to non investors. That's nonsense - most lay people would have no idea what you were talking about if you told them you had 50 doors. It's a term used only on other investors, and actually mostly just here as I've never heard anyone else use it at other RE functions.


    folks not into real estate would think your counting the front door the man door on the garage the back door the garage door etc .. :)
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  • Brian BurkePro Member
    Investor · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    @Dave Meyer, it depends on the context.  If someone were to ask me how many "doors" I own in my personal portfolio, I couldn't answer them unless I looked it up.  I don't know and don't care, nor does it matter.  It's not a measurement I take the time to memorize nor brag about.

    As a syndication sponsor, "door" count does matter.  Not necessarily as a vanity measurement of a current portfolio, but as a measurement of experience.  It matters less how many units currently owned, but how many units have been bought, held, and/or sold in one's career is meaningful as one of several measurements a prospective passive investor should use to evaluate a sponsor's experience.

    In this context, door count is often misused by sponsors who count deals they are invested in as an LP, or deals they raised capital for as a capital raiser where they had no operational control or responsibility.  In such a case, door count is reduced to a vanity metric once again because it says nothing about experience operating real estate and managing investments funded by others.  Passive investors need to dig deeper to cut through this.

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  • Eric Gerakos
    Investor · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dave Meyer:

    Door count is the worst (commonly discussed) metric in the real estate investing community. Why does everyone use it? Can we all decide to collectively kill it? Or are there some of you out there that stand by door count being a useful barometer of success? Honestly, I'd love to hear the argument for why this metric is useful, cause I can't think of one -- so please reply back here. 

    Here's my argument. Door count is what many in the analytics world would call a 'vanity metric.' It's something that looks important and fancy,  but doesn't actually tell you anything about business performance. Sound familiar?  It's because door count is a useless metric, it exists to pump up the ego of the investor, and nothing more. Here's why: 

    1. Door count tells you exactly nothing about the quality of a portfolio. As an example, let's say Jane T. Investor has 12 doors, and she leads with that when networking. Well 12 doors sounds solid, but how are they performing? Are they cash flowing? Do they require enormous amounts of time and maintenance? Are the returns as good as what other investors in your market/asset class are generating? I know people with huge door counts who lose money every month. What good is a 'door' if it doesn't generate returns? Tell me how efficiently your deals generate returns, and then I'll be impressed. 

    2. Prioritizing door count makes you focus on the wrong thing. If I wanted to get 100 doors in the next few years, I bet I could -- but you can bet many of those deals would be thin. Shouldn't we be prioritizing quality over quantity?  If I could choose between earning $5,000/month from 10 doors, or from 5 doors, I would pick 5 doors all day long! Good metrics push you towards good decision making, and door count does the opposite. For a lot of people getting lots of doors would be detrimental to their strategy! 

    3. Don't even get me started on passive investor door counts. They're absurd. I invest in multifamily syndications as well as residential properties. On the passive side of my portfolio, I am in syndications that collectively own over 2,000 units. Does that mean I own 2,000 units? Of course not, claiming so would be ridiculous (don't tell people on Instagram, though). If I own 1% of those syndications, does thatmean I own 20 units? I have no idea, nor do I care. Why on earth do I care what % of the doors I own? I care about actual measurements of returns like CoCR, AAROI, and IRR to determine if my portfolio is doing well.

    There's my argument -- but I want to be proven wrong. Someone explain to me why this metric is useful. 


     Couldn't agree more. I've always hated the term. 

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  • Justin BrickmanBusiness Member
    Realtor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2021 · 502 posts · 274 votes
    2y

    Every investor has their own motivation and metrics. If door count has worked for you, then there's no reason to change metrics

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  • Mark F.
    Rental Property Investor · Northern NJ · Member since 2019 · 672 posts · 677 votes
    2y
    Sounds like you're jealous cause I got more doors than you.

    Seriously it's pointless because of relativity. When guests on BP say they have 20 doors (I know they're not bragging they're just stating facts to further the discuss) I used to feel deflated. Then they talk about how it's $2 million in property and I chuckle as one 4 unit in my area is about 10 doors in there's. Big difference in owning 10 doors in San Diego vs. 30 doors in nowhere Gerogia.
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  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Your own site promotes door count.

    To tell folks to focus on quality, but you're here digging for cash flow only? Seems like you're tripping on your own advice. A few of us sat here and have preached that for 1 year +. Now you're talking about quality?

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  • Dave MeyerPro Member
    OP
    Head of Real Estate Investing at BiggerPockets · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 224 posts · 826 votes
    2y

    @V.G Jason not sure I understand your post. Yes, I work for BiggerPockets but I am an individual with my own opinions.  As a veteran of these forums, I assumed you know that BP employees are free to post their own thoughts, as I’ve done here. If you look at the history of my posts, blogs, and media content, you’d see I’ve never advocated for quantity over quality. 

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  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    2y

    One of my quotes is the goal is obtaining return not owning units. 

    Of course having San Diego as my market has promoted my view that unit count means $hit.  

    However, the next common measuring stick is cash flow.  I state my cash flow is modest (but I suspect 95% of BP users would be thrilled to have my cash flow). 

    Where I have done well is in appreciation.  My lowest value gain property has done $2700/month value gain over its hold. My best is above $20k/month of value gain.  My lowest unit gain is $1400/month. 

    Note that appreciation cannot work as benchmark in high cash flow markets any more than cash flow works well in appreciating markets.   So I go back to return.  Note I do not have many units but I would need to count to know the exact number (somewhere around mid 20s).  That is how little I care about unit count. 

    As for LP, I have no idea how many units the syndications I am associated with have.  I care about the return they achieve and not their unit count.  I take no credit for any aspect of those units other than providing some financing.  Why would I count those units?

    Best wishes. 

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  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    2y

    It's not a barometer of success, it's just a starting point for helping a little to understand the experience of the members we interact with. Putting things in our bios like CoC, ROI, and IRR would not help much and things like our net worth, AUM, or equity would not be appropriate. Most of us understand the limitations of unit count and those who use it incorrectly just reveal their issues.

    I focus on profit per property; so, agree with your thesis.

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Dave Meyer

    Agree 100% - how is your business going today. As Russell mentioned you can own 100 doors but if they are $50k a pop…. Ok

    I see the same thing with people today overpaying for homes because they are getting seller financing and saying I have $5M in real estate and $6M in debt.

    The most successful people are the ones who you have no clue how many doors they have…

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  • Eric James
    Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    Metric that matters to me is net worth.

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  • Allan C.
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 826 posts · 810 votes
    2y

    @Eric James I think everything needs to be qualified. NW can also be less meaningful for REI purposes if it most of someone's NW was derived from non-REI activity.

    To the OP, I think door count can have some value if it’s qualified by $/door. It can help investors understand the context of posts/replies from other investors on BP. By now I know $/door range for most forum contributors, so I qualify their comments accordingly. But new folks on this site can’t easily differentiate which replies are most relevant to them.

    I’m not saying one is better than the other - high $/door vs low $/door, or other metrics either. Everyone has different investment strategies, preferences, capabilities, privileges, etc. Many posts are often divisive since people can’t get past context (I’ve been guilty of this at times myself) - and replies are often not helpful because they don’t address an OPs specific need since every opposing idea is offered.

    Maybe BP should create a graphic, like different color rings around profile picture (only 1 ring broken into quads) to indicate what type of investor you are - high/low $/door, STR/LTR, buy-hold/flip, Cbus vs rest of country, deal volume, etc. Clicking into profiles is too time consuming, so this can help posters quickly filter what responses are most helpful.

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  • Calvin Thomas
    Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dave Meyer:

    Door count is the worst (commonly discussed) metric in the real estate investing community. Why does everyone use it? Can we all decide to collectively kill it? Or are there some of you out there that stand by door count being a useful barometer of success? Honestly, I'd love to hear the argument for why this metric is useful, cause I can't think of one -- so please reply back here. 

    Here's my argument. Door count is what many in the analytics world would call a 'vanity metric.' It's something that looks important and fancy,  but doesn't actually tell you anything about business performance. Sound familiar?  It's because door count is a useless metric, it exists to pump up the ego of the investor, and nothing more. Here's why: 

    1. Door count tells you exactly nothing about the quality of a portfolio. As an example, let's say Jane T. Investor has 12 doors, and she leads with that when networking. Well 12 doors sounds solid, but how are they performing? Are they cash flowing? Do they require enormous amounts of time and maintenance? Are the returns as good as what other investors in your market/asset class are generating? I know people with huge door counts who lose money every month. What good is a 'door' if it doesn't generate returns? Tell me how efficiently your deals generate returns, and then I'll be impressed. 

    2. Prioritizing door count makes you focus on the wrong thing. If I wanted to get 100 doors in the next few years, I bet I could -- but you can bet many of those deals would be thin. Shouldn't we be prioritizing quality over quantity?  If I could choose between earning $5,000/month from 10 doors, or from 5 doors, I would pick 5 doors all day long! Good metrics push you towards good decision making, and door count does the opposite. For a lot of people getting lots of doors would be detrimental to their strategy! 

    3. Don't even get me started on passive investor door counts. They're absurd. I invest in multifamily syndications as well as residential properties. On the passive side of my portfolio, I am in syndications that collectively own over 2,000 units. Does that mean I own 2,000 units? Of course not, claiming so would be ridiculous (don't tell people on Instagram, though). If I own 1% of those syndications, does thatmean I own 20 units? I have no idea, nor do I care. Why on earth do I care what % of the doors I own? I care about actual measurements of returns like CoCR, AAROI, and IRR to determine if my portfolio is doing well.

    There's my argument -- but I want to be proven wrong. Someone explain to me why this metric is useful. 


     Agreed, it's not a success metric, it's more of a boasting metric. One could have a hundred doors, but is in the red each month. What's the point? Depreciation?  That could be a metric if they have or want to have losses to offset their other income; then it can work. However, in general, I would agree, it's a bad metric to use for investing.

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  • Tony Stephan
    Investor · Metro-Detroit, MI · Member since 2021 · 63 posts · 54 votes
    2y

    In any business QUALITY beats QUANTITY every day...My wife and I own 220 units and our focus is the BEST assets, not the most!

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  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dave Meyer:

    @V.G Jason not sure I understand your post. Yes, I work for BiggerPockets but I am an individual with my own opinions.  As a veteran of these forums, I assumed you know that BP employees are free to post their own thoughts, as I’ve done here. If you look at the history of my posts, blogs, and media content, you’d see I’ve never advocated for quantity over quality. 

     

    You haven't advocated for quantity-- I get that, but you've advocated for things that are usually not quality per se. You're a cash flow investor, through and through. That's usually high cap rates and let's go find where those are today, and then ask yourself are those quality investments.

    Not to say cash flow investing can't be a quality investment, but it's rarer and rarer. You're the one to preach Cheyenne WY, Rochester NY, you're not promoting the real quality areas.

    There's a few of us on this board a year + that have preached quality. The shift is growing. BP loves to take material from their boards and act like it's theirs. 

    To contribute to this thread though-- I whole heartedly agree. It's all about quality. The average BPer needs to scale up  to 6-8 houses then sell 1, refi 1 down to 4-6 houses over 7-15 years and be debt free. That is achievable for the average $80k BPer over that time period. Just no one has that patience. And the priority is 1-2 cities for those 3-4 houses each, and get high quality area. Not Detroit, Cleveland, or some of the cities you've suggested. 

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  • John Mason
    Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 351 votes
    2y

    4 or 5 good quality 350 k SFH in a good prime location with thriving industry , booming population and good schools ..that would be quality door count

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  • Tony Stephan
    Investor · Metro-Detroit, MI · Member since 2021 · 63 posts · 54 votes
    2y
    Quote from @V.G Jason:
    Quote from @Dave Meyer:

    @V.G Jason not sure I understand your post. Yes, I work for BiggerPockets but I am an individual with my own opinions.  As a veteran of these forums, I assumed you know that BP employees are free to post their own thoughts, as I’ve done here. If you look at the history of my posts, blogs, and media content, you’d see I’ve never advocated for quantity over quality. 

     

    You haven't advocated for quantity-- I get that, but you've advocated for things that are usually not quality per se. You're a cash flow investor, through and through. That's usually high cap rates and let's go find where those are today, and then ask yourself are those quality investments.

    Not to say cash flow investing can't be a quality investment, but it's rarer and rarer. You're the one to preach Cheyenne WY, Rochester NY, you're not promoting the real quality areas.

    There's a few of us on this board a year + that have preached quality. The shift is growing. BP loves to take material from their boards and act like it's theirs. 

    To contribute to this thread though-- I whole heartedly agree. It's all about quality. The average BPer needs to scale up  to 6-8 houses then sell 1, refi 1 down to 4-6 houses over 7-15 years and be debt free. That is achievable for the average $80k BPer over that time period. Just no one has that patience. And the priority is 1-2 cities for those 3-4 houses each, and get high quality area. Not Detroit, Cleveland, or some of the cities you've suggested. 


     We own 220+ units in Metro-Detroit...Don't hate on it!

    0Reply
  • Nate Marshall
    Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 734 votes
    2y

    Door counts are guru speak. Like Lambo. G5 or G20. Guru speak! 

    2Reply
  • Ed O.
    Investor · Statewide, MO · Member since 2011 · 814 posts · 425 votes
    2y

    I don't like doors as a metric but appreciate it when a newb starts using the terms in excess as it tells me they've started in the last 2 years or have 1 or 2 "doors" without me having to ask. 

    0Reply
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