With apologies, another "What should I do?" post (but with a few twists)

With apologies, another "What should I do?" post (but with a few twists)

Aliso Viejo, CA · Member since 2013 · 3 posts · 2 votes

Hello to the community. I know there are at least 100 threads on this great site that deal with “getting started,” and assure you that I have tried to digest as much as possible before resorting to another “help me” thread. After much reading on this site and others though, I now find myself at the point where I know enough to be overwhelmed and not enough to be able to fully concentrate on a “correct” path. As everybody reading this has much more real estate investing experience then me, it occurs to me that most of you would be in a better position to help me focus my efforts then simply forging ahead unguided.

So, here is my situation. We are three siblings in a family relatively new to real estate investing. One sibling – not me – has some limited experience in out of state, low cost, prepackaged rehab rentals, but not the level of experience to guide what will be happening over the next 6 months. We will be selling off three farm parcels by the end of the year (three separate transactions of approximately $2-3M each) with no debt, and would very much like to complete 1031 exchanges to avoid a very big tax hit this year. The sale is primarily to diversify our risk, not because of a need to liquidate. Thus, very unintentionally, we find ourselves needing to make (by our measure) a big splash in the real estate market in a relatively short amount of time. From what we understand of 1031 exchanges, we will need to identify and close on all new acquisitions in a very tight timeframe after these farm deals close before year end. As the most business minded sibling, this situation is particularly uncomfortable for me as I have traditionally built my business (non-real estate) with a methodical approach with small initial investments that grew over time as I learned from my successes and mistakes.

Each of the three siblings has a relatively active family life and other careers (the remaining farming at this point is managed by parents and largely turn-key), and thus taking on a new “career” of 30-40 weeks working as a real estate investor for the next 10-30 years is not highly desirable for any of the siblings. That said, two of us are willing to put time in now and oversight over the next decades to ensure that the family legacy extends to future generations. Similarly, we do not have any major financing/capital issues (at least we don’t anticipate any), as most in the family are conservative by nature and would not be comfortable being highly leveraged. As simply as I can state it, investing this money wisely would improve the three siblings lives, but all have more to lose from being TOO risky then we have to gain from benefiting from such large risks.

After some initial discussions with the other siblings, we all have the same goals. We want to generate cash flow each year for the benefit of our families and would love to see the family’s nest egg continue to grow. We want to do so without being overly aggressive, particularly by overleveraging that could jeopardize the family’s other assets, and we want to be “involved” in decision making and new ideas (particularly as we learn from our experiences), but do not want the day-to-day hassles of dealing directly with tenants and/or a laundry list of repairmen whenever tenants experience problems. For this reason, even if we were to purchase a larger apartment complex, we would be hesitant to not have an outside management company managing the property.

While our goals are aligned, how to go about achieving those goals is not as easy. One sibling is not experienced in the business world, and thus largely defers to the other two. My other sibling has purchased six small residential units from a professional rehabber that fixes them up and then rents them out on her behalf for a management fee. Thanks to zero vacancy and almost no repair costs the past three years, she is convinced that continuing this strategy would be the best course. I left my career as a corporate lawyer to start my own business 8 years ago and now have a company that I own and manage with a couple of employees. I have shaped it to be largely turn-key, so that I work on it when I want and am able to vacation for large stretches without worrying much about day-to-day activities. After my initial research and reading, it appears that while my sibling’s real estate investment strategy is one way to go, it is not necessarily the best or only direction to follow. My experience in law and business has given me enough insight into real estate investing to be very intrigued, but has not resulted in a connection with individuals that have the particularized knowledge to serve as a mentor or give even basic advice on what paths to pursue.

One last point, all three of us are located in California, albeit in very different parts of the state (one Northern, one Central and me in Southern Cali.). Given a buy-and-hold for rental income strategy preference, I am assuming it makes more sense to consider investments out of state (given a lot of investing in California seems to be fueled by appreciation of the property rather than cash flow). For anybody that has indulged this longwinded backstory, I am wondering if you were us (and more particularly me), what course would you follow in your research? After our first acquisitions, I am sure that I will be in a good position going forward to evaluate and grow our investments over time. But, starting cold, it would be great to hear any thoughts you might have as to where to focus given our goals, and perhaps how to make connections with mentors/brokers that are out there to legitimately work together rather then simply out there to generate commissions from a new entrant into the real estate landscape (particularly given our uneducated opinion that we might need to invest out of state to achieve our goals).

The temptation to add another 100 facts and questions to this post was strong. But I realize if this post was any longer the few that have stuck around this long would probably give up on me. So, if there is any information I could offer to help you help me, I would welcome it. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

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Bill ExeterBusiness Member
1031 Exchange Qualified Intermediary · San Diego, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y

I had a few comments regarding the comments made above on 1031 Exchanges.

Failure Rate

We administer 1,000's of 1031 Exchanges each year, and historically only about 8% of client 1031 Exchanges fail. So, contrary to popular belief, most 1031 Exchanges are successful. This does not mean they are not stressful, just that they are completed. This statistic just gives you an idea of how many fail.

O.K. to Pay Taxes

We have certainly seen clients that have ended up buying property that they shouldn't have because of the deadlines involved. I highly recommend that clients structure a 1031 Exchange if they intend to reinvest in real estate and then do their best to locate suitable replacement properties within the deadlines. However, if they can not find suitable replacement property, it is o.k. to let the 1031 Exchange fail and pay the tax - its not the end of the world. In other words, put the 1031 Exchange in place, try your best to locate and identify suitable replacement property, proceed if you do, don't proceed if you can't.

Don't let the tail wag the dog. The 1031 Exchange is a tax strategy. The primary concern should be the economics of the deal. Does it make sense? If not, don't buy just to defer the tax.

Although we have also seen some clients acquire property that was less than desirable on purpose in order to defer the tax when they could not located suitable replacement property. It is a strategic tax planning strategy where they intent to hold for exactly 12 months and then reposition again into more suitable replacement property through another 1031 Exchange, but be careful that you don't settle for a "dog." Remember, if you go to bed with a dog you will likely wake up with fleas.

But, to advise someone not to do a 1031 Exchange because of the timing involved when the investor's stated goal is to reinvest in real estate just does not make sense to me. Why not try with the worse case scenario being that the 1031 Exchange fails and they reinvest when they do find suitable replacement property?

Reverse 1031 Exchange

The Reverse 1031 Exchange has become very popular over the last 18 months. The Reverse 1031 Exchange allows the investor to take all the time they need to locate suitable replacement properties and then to acquire the replacement property first before they sell their relinquished property.

Reverse 1031 Exchanges are more complicated, especially considering the fact that the Qualified Intermediary must acquire and hold ("park") legal title to one of the properties while the investor is selling their relinquished property, but they help to significantly reduce the risk of completing 1031 Exchanges in markets like today.

Exeter 1031 Exchange Services, LLC and Exeter Trust Company4.726 Reviews
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  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2012 · 316 posts · 102 votes
    12y

    @Scott K. you have a very good problem on your hands. I think there are two ways to consider going to minimize risk.

    1. Look into Triple Net Leases - like Walgreens or Applebees. They typically sign long term leases and you don't have to manage the building day to day. Returns are lower - maybe in the 5-6% range, but it would be a stable income for your family.

    2. Consider finding a syndicator who is putting together commercial or multi-family deals and join with them. Your returns potentially could be higher but there is slightly more risk. I would want to have solid referrals to any syndicators I did business with, but you might be able to ask in your circle of lawyer colleagues and find ones that have done multiple deals.

    A lot of other ways to go, but personally buying single family rehab rentals would be a lot of paperwork headaches with that many units that you would need to buy.

  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2012 · 316 posts · 102 votes
    12y

    One thing I don't want to foget to mention. Make sure you verify you perform your 1031 exchange with a qualified intermediary to ensure you don't lose the tax benefits.

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Scott K. I would suggest hiring someone who specializes in 1031 transfers to help you. If you mess that up it costs you a LOT!. Most folks start small and work up as they get experience. I am not sure but buying into syndication will probably not qualify as a 1031 but snot sure. Obviously apartment complexes are an area you need to explore quickly.

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Scott,

    It didn't sound like it, but for clarification, I still want to ask. Did 3 of you inherit the farm land? If you did, there might be a stepped up in basis so your tax liability might be minimal. In this case, 1031 Exchange might be the wrong way to go.

    If it's mostly capital gains from the sale of these farm parcels, I second what Dave and Jerry said above that 1031 Exchange into a triple net (NNN) like Walgreens, CVS, McDonald or some other strong real estate investments, might be the way to go. @Joel Owens can give you some inputs on this topic.

    If you have questions regarding 1031 Exchange, our in-house expert @Bill Exeter can give you some guidance.

    If you're looking to 1031 Exchange into a syndication and I don't know if you're qualified for it, @Brian Burke is the person that can give you the best response with respect to syndication.

    Good luck.

  • Real Estate Agent · Milwaukee County, WI · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 525 votes
    12y

    I would say ask around and visit several different local REIA

    See who the agents looking for one commision check

    or their clients best interest. Good luck moving forward

    " legitimately work together rather than simply out there

    to generate commissions from a new entrant into

    the real estate landscape "

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    12y

    Scott be weary of wolfs that come in sheep's clothing. Although many on here have been here for years now that you have thrown this out there expect to be hit with every quackery proposal out there to invest your money by some who join here trying to make a quick buck.

    Your post basically comes down this this.

    Expectation of risk versus control and being passive or active.

    When I talk to investors about commercial investing the talk always comes back to return versus risk.

    With some of the things mentioned in triple net I will expand on them.

    Mcdonald's you are not getting much there starting at around a 4.8 to 5.3% cap rate. With debt you will be lucky to be at zero cash flow with down payment. Now with annual rent bumps the BLENDED CAP RATE will be higher over the next 10 years. I do projections for clients to see what it will look like.

    Walgreens and other CVS pharmacy etc. there are fixed cap rates going in and no annual rent bumps in the primary term. So you have to make sure if you are holding long term to not go for short term fixed debt and that the going in cap rate gives you the pre-tax cash on cash you want.

    Other triple net such as an Applebees can have a new lease in the mid 7's for cap range depending on location. With annual rent bumps of 2% a year you can hit the 9 cap range soon. Typical down on restaurants Is 25% and pharmacy you can get in as low as 10%.

    Large apartment buildings you have size and structure for PM company and full time repair person.

    Being that your sale isn't going to possibly happen until the end of the year I wouldn't get too deep with analysis now. It's good that you are planning but what properties will be trading for at the end of the year and debt interest rate will affect returns by then.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Camarillo, CA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Welcome to BP as I see this is your first post. I would agree with the NNN leases with a national company. These will get you fair return with little or no effort on your part. Due diligence on the front end is the main effort.

    A strong syndicated deal can get you better returns with a little more on the risk side. Most of your work is on the front side with the due diligence.

    If want more control then I would partner up with someone with experience that will JV with you.

    Going at it alone is your highest risk path, but be careful about announcing your good fortune as you will attract many more opportunities than you can filter.

    The biggest problem with the 1031 is the timing. Finding a deal within your timeline can push investors into bad deals.

  • Aliso Viejo, CA · Member since 2013 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Thanks to all who have responded so far. Definitely going to look at the triple net concept as it sounds like a low management, steady return option (just need to learn about all of the downsides - beyond lower return - as it is much easier for me to see risks then benefits in a deal). To answer a few of the questions out there: (1) 1031 Exchange Process - I know enough to know we need to have legal help dotting the i's and crossing the t's, with so much at stake. Being a small business owner and separately having income from various farming entities, I have to think I am on the IRS' "watch list" and I assume every move we make will be scrutinized by an agent. (2) Where did the land come from? A couple years ago, each of the siblings was given a 30% undivided interest in several acres of farmland via legacy trusts designed to help with tax planning by the parents. As the transfer was not the result of a death, our understanding is a stepped-up basis would not apply (this has not been independently confirmed by an estate lawyer, so if you think this is a thread worth pulling, please let me know). The complexities of the trust underscore the need for a lawyer to handle all of the particulars of the various transactions. (3) Perhaps I am misunderstanding the "syndication" concept, but assuming it means joining an investment group to own a partial interest in a real estate portfolio (almost like a homemade REIT), I am hesitant to go this route (at least with the proceeds of these farm sales - definitely intrigued to learn more about these investment possibilities for our non-farming assets).

    Since several of you have been kind enough to take time to give some guidance, I wanted to offer one additional factor that may (or may not) impact the direction we may go. Despite selling these parcels, the siblings will still have various farming interests that continue to generate significant passive income each year. I know that with real estate investing, one of the challenges for the passive investor is not having passive income substantial enough to see a real benefit for paper passive losses. That is definitely not the case. Indeed, collectively the siblings have about $1 Million a year in passive income already (and combined with their careers, this results in the IRS taking a hefty cut off the top), and thus a good investment that generates paper losses could prove very beneficial. Admittedly, I am still not far enough along in the process to fit this piece of the puzzle or know if it is a red herring.

    Finally, as my wife and I have read our posts and the replies, we wanted to apologize if we come off as entitled a-holes. We assure you that we are not spoiled trust fund babies (well, at least not by design) and the "1st world problems" we are now facing are a new phenomenon. It was not until a couple of years ago that this bounty fell into our lap, and our goal is much less about living a life of luxury and much more about making sure our children and grandchildren have the freedom to pursue their passions. Outside of a (relatively) anonymous forum, we would never be flaunting the situation we are in, but we really feel like we owe it to future generations to get as much information as we can from those that know the most. Continued appreciation for all of the guidance and support.

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Scott K.

    I just finished at 1031 for my parents. We sold a house in Maryland and bought 4 in California. Overall it went but there was definitely a learning experience. Our 1031 administrator was awesome!

    If I can help, free to pm.

    Personally my recommendation is diversification. Honestly I am a buy and hold investor. We have found that single family class while some work has had less expenses and this any other numbers I ran for that clad. My only concern is they are some work!

    I totally understand where you are coming from. I literally just went trough this situation with my parents. I actually finished the exchange a couple of weeks ago ;)

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes
    12y

    I would agree with the others who say at least take a look at NNN properties, but be very careful in making the investment selection. This market is so very hot over the past 5 years and CAP rates are extremely compressed. You really need to take a very close look at the location and imagine it without that tenant. I could tell you some horror stories in relation to Starbucks properties when they coughed up over 600 units back in 2008. Many of the properties were leased to Starbucks at 7 to 8 times market rents, with over $200/sq ft in over build's. Trying to find replacement tenants at anything close to the prices paid for these assets was not possible and many investors took a bath.

    Also, think about how the deals are structured. Many Drug Store leases are true bond leases with no inflationary bumps. Think about how that would effect the value of your asset and the return you are receiving if inflation were to take a sudden spike.

    Most of the analysis is common sense, real estate fundamentals, but I have seen ordinarily smart investors relax those principals locking in to what they think is a stable return only to find out the "no way that scenario could happen" actually happen.

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes
    12y

    "The biggest problem with the 1031 is the timing. Finding a deal within your timeline can push investors into bad deals."

    Great advice @Jeff Greenberg . Sometimes, paying the tax is not the end of the world.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Scott K. I commend you for seeking help and being humble enough to realize that having money does not make you an investor. Seek out knowledge first , plan a little but definitely take action. I am an engineer by training so I am as risk averse as you are. There is positive results in negative thinking (think of an engineer who built a bridge - I would prefer a pessimist engineer than a positive-thinking one).

    With $6M to $9M and a tight 1031 exchange timing, messing with Single Family Homes does NOT make sense. You can definitely look into apartment buildings out of state but be very careful. Learn from my mistake by listening to this podcast interview:

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2014/04/10/bp-podcast-065-creative-investing-wendell-de-guzman/

    I lost money on a 36-unit apartment building which I thought was a no-lose proposition because I bought it dirt cheap. Don't let the low cost of apartment buildings outside of CA give you the impression that they are by default good deals. Sometimes, cheap means it can go cheaper...and cheap sometimes means BAD DEAL.

    Triple net leases on retail or office space might make sense (because it's more passive) but the risk is when you have a vacancy, you are looking at SEVERAL YEARS of vacancy or SEVERAL YEARS OF NEGATIVE CASHFLOW. I have not bought a retail space or office space precisely because of this negative.

    If I were in your situation...the answer to your question is a question:
    WHAT INVESTMENT DO YOU KNOW...OR MORE COMFORTABLE WITH?

    If it's farm land, then 1031 exchange to buy a bigger farmland. Since you're familiar with law, maybe buy an office building leased to attorneys. You get the idea.

    For me, I love buying and selling houses for the quick cash and buying and keeping apartments for the cashflow. Despite losing money on my 30+unit apartment, I bought a 100+ unit apartment for $6M and learned from my mistake. There will be many "investors" or "syndicators" who will push investment opportunities to you. Take whatever they tell with a grain of salt. I've made offers on over 100 apartment buildings, retail and office buildings personally so I know how to look at the numbers. Feel free to post the numbers here and I will tell you whether you have a good deal or a bad deal.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Camarillo, CA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Scott K.:
    . (3) Perhaps I am misunderstanding the "syndication" concept, but assuming it means joining an investment group to own a partial interest in a real estate portfolio (almost like a homemade REIT), I am hesitant to go this route (at least with the proceeds of these farm sales - definitely intrigued to learn more about these investment possibilities for our non-farming assets).


    You have the basic concept of a syndication correct. We form an entity to purchase a property and sell shares of that entity. The investors have little or no voice in the conduct of the entity, but they also have little or no liability beyond their investment. Once the investors due diligence on the promoter(sponsor), the property, and the overall deal are complete, they can be completely a passive investor. The key is to find the right sponsor and deal.
  • Brian BurkePro Member
    Investor · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    12y

    @Scott K. You've received some great advice already. I especially like @Jeff Greenberg 's advice of being leery of the 1031 exchange. I've bought more than one apartment complex that was foreclosed away from an owner that acquired in a 1031 exchange. It's tough enough to properly underwrite an income property investment...to do it under duress because of a legal timeline adds danger, which is further amplified if the investor lacks experience in the property type. It can take a lot of time to find the right deal, and when you find it you want to be in the strongest negotiating position possible. Sellers know that 1031 buyers are motivated buyers.

    I also like @Wendell De Guzman 's advice about investing in something that you know about. If you know farmland, you have an advantage if you were to trade up to a larger farm property, not to mention that there are most likely fewer players in farmland than Multifamily for example.

    You are close with your understanding of the syndication concept. It takes several forms, from a simple single-property syndication to more of a private equity model. Syndication / private equity is to real estate as mutual funds are to stocks. It's great for people with wealth who desire to diversify into real estate but don't want to (or don't know how to) manage the acquisition, finance, management, and disposition process. Think about someone that wants to invest in stocks but doesn't know how (or doesn't want) to research companies and make individual stock selections. They may be better off investing in a mutual fund so that a professional investor can manage that process. Also similar to a mutual fund, the success or failure of the investment is largely dependent on the skill and track record of the fund manager. If you go this route, you must do your homework on the sponsor and work with an experienced and trustworthy group with a demonstrable track record.

    One big downside is you give up some control. Another is that you give up some of the profits. That said, a key benefit is that you would be working with someone that has already made mistakes (and learned from them, hopefully) which reduces your risk because you haven't made mistakes yet (and everyone does, eventually). The other benefit is that you don't have to dedicate your life to your real estate.

    While I'm on the topic of mistakes...welcome to BP...you have joined a great forum to capture the advice of some experienced folks, which can go a long way toward minimizing your mistakes if you ask the right questions. Welcome!

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    12y

    In NNN most pharmacies are NOT bought for cash flow. They are bought for equity build up in an more safe environment with pay down over time. Since the primary term lease is set almost always with no rent bumps you need a fixed loan that is tied to the primary term of the lease.

    Many opt to go for a 5 to 7 year fixed loan because they get a slightly smaller interest rate and it makes their cash on cash go from a 5 to an 8% pre-tax. After they calculate the tax equivalent yield they might hit double digits. The problem is when the loan comes due before the primary term of the lease with no rent bumps. You have to now sell because with refi and increasing interest rate you might be in a negative cash flow situation with no rent bumps. It's all in the investors take on the long view versus the short view.

    It sure beats money rotting in the bank at 1% annually if you are lucky.

    Pharmacies are also purchased to take a bunch of passive losses.

    There are bad properties to buy in NNN just like any other sector. NNN is compressed somewhat but still deals to be had. You can't mess around and twiddle your thumbs writing offers. Sometimes the sellers who might be developers price the asset for an all cash offer. They do this because they do not want to take the risk underwriting a buyer putting money down and getting a loan which might not go through.

    A value play on pharmacies is buying some with 3 to 10 years left on the lease. Generally there are rent increases in the option periods. Pharmacies have an extremely high renewal rate in the 90's although sometimes they will move if a better location presents itself.

    Some NNN stuff to me doesn't make sense and I tell my clients why. An ultra tiny food place with a small parcel and an inflated rent you better make sure you have a parent corp. guarantee. Anything else and the risk can be too great.

    Tons of other factors go into NNN investing. Each type banks, auto stores, dollar stores, restaurants, pharmacies, etc. have their own variables and loan products available.

    I am not big on dollar stores because of sub-standard locations. I do not agree that the NNN space will sit for years and years vacant. Now big box space that can happen but if the smaller free standing NNN corp (not mom and pop stuff) goes dark but demographics and median income and population growth is strong for the location you will have many new tenants fighting for it. If you bought in a rural town and the corp tenant goes out then YES the what we call second or third generational tenant will not be paying what the current tenant did. When you look at NNN you analyze stores sales and performance of the location. Usually the lease is set at no more than 12% of gross sales. Most buyers like to see sales ratio even smaller at 5 to 8 or less.

    If you do not need much cash initially with NNN and just equity build up and tax write down then you are looking for ultra quality locations that do not have much cash flow anyways due to demand. The long view is taken with property and land ownership or highly sought after areas versus the cash it produces. In NNN in most cases you won't see more than 2% rent bumps annually but you also have no cost with NNN so it's a pure gain.

    Scott you have plenty of time to review options as the end of the year is far from now. Hope it helps.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Camarillo, CA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Brian Burke as usual did a great job of adding perspective. The one statement that I would questions is

    "Another is that you give up some of the profits"

    Yes you do give up some of the profits of this particular deal, if you were able to find, fund and close on it on your own. That is the big if. Professional syndicators are looking for better deals so that they can offer a good return for their investors. It is very likely that the deal promoted by a syndication sponsor, will yield the equity investor a better and safer return then an inexperienced investor or investor with limited time would yield on their own. Yes the investor gives up control. That is part of the trade off.

  • Aliso Viejo, CA · Member since 2013 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    Continued thanks to all for the help. Regarding moving into other farming opportunities, the reality is that the current siblings do not really have much knowledge about running a large farm (the family's institutional knowledge on how to grow a successful farm is resident in one man, who is our remarkably healthy but tired 70+ father), and this is part of the reason why the current parcels are being marketed for sale. Moreover, with such a large proportion of the family's wealth held in permanent farming crops (and only a few different crops), we are very much at the mercy of mother nature and California politics. Having money in other types of assets would help us feel better protected against a devastating development to our farming interests - such as a several year drought or legislation that restrict access to water. It should be pointed out that after the sale of these parcels, each sibling will still have more invested in farmland than all other assets combined (albeit far less lopsided then things are now). As for attorney office space, can there be worse tenants than a group of lawyers? I kid, but I think that any movement in this direction would likely be a later investment, not one I can reasonably see completing in the next year.

    One point that has been brought up by a few members in this thread is whether a 1031 Exchange is even a good idea, given that we would be making a potentially rushed decision without the seasoning to avert mistakes in our asset selection. I certainly understand this concern, and indeed the big mistake is what we are most trying to guard against. That said, I am wondering whether the risk of the mistake outweighs the immediate tax hit that would be eminent if we do not do an exchange?

    As I understand it, between Federal and Cal. Capital Gains, we are chopping 33% off the top on any gains on the sold farmland absent an exchange. As the property has been in the family for 50+ years, and the development expenses for the permanent crops are several years into their depreciation schedule, I am assuming (pending a bunch of number crunching by the accountants) that the basis in this sold property is likely a very small percentage of the sale price. There is no debt on the land sold, so after the first two parcels are sold (let's say for $5 Million and assuming an adjusted cost basis of $1 Million - obviously a guess) we are probably looking at a Capital Gain of $4 Million. So, that $4 Million gain becomes $2.7 Million, with $1.3 Million going to Uncle Sam.

    We have been operating on the premise that even if we were unlucky and/or unskilled in our investing decisions, we likely would be better off spending $4 million and risking a less than ideal profit margin then taking the tax hit, leaving $2.7 million that will ultimately have to be invested anyway (and given our holdings elsewhere, some form of real estate investment is likely inevitable). So, I guess the question is, would you rather have $4 million to invest in real estate with 15% of the experience you have now or $2.7 million to invest in real estate with 25% of the experience you have now? (this is a legitimate question, not rhetorical).

    One other thought, alot of the posts mention the difficulty in funding/closing on the short timeline provided by this 1031 exchange. I believe we would be making cash offers most likely, so I was assuming finding the right investment opportunities over the next 5 months would be the lion share of the work to meet the time crunch. Are there additional hurdles I am ignoring?

    Finally, thanks to those that have made conversation/connection invites. I am not intentionally ignoring anyone, but trying to get a basic understanding of the directions I intend to pursue with everyone's helpful thoughts in this thread before initiating network discussions. I would much prefer my first introduction to not leave everyone with the impression I am idiot (assuming my first three posts here have not already cemented as much).

  • Real Estate Consultant · Camarillo, CA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    It is always good to keep your sense of humor during trying times.

    You are in a good place, with many knowledgeable people willing to help.

    Keep asking the questions.

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Scott,

    I'm not a 1031 Exchange expert, but it is my understanding that you have 45 days to identify the property and 180 days to close the transaction. Granted your 45 days can be as much as 75 or 105 days if the buyer of your farm land is cooperating with you on your 1031 Exchange and willing to give you a 30 or two 30 day extensions.

    If 1031 Exchange is putting you in a weak position to negotiate on your upleg purchase, have you considered of doing a Reverse 1031 Exchange? However, this method would require some resources on your end. I hope @Bill Exeter can chime in and give you the full load down on this subject.

    With respect to buying an office building and rent it to a law firm, I have a funny story that I'd like to share. My mentor rented his house to an attorney. After 3 years, the rent didn't come on the 5th of the month. He posted it on the forum and asked for advice on what to do. I laughed so hard. How do you evict an attorney who doesn't pay rent? :0)

  • Bill ExeterBusiness Member
    1031 Exchange Qualified Intermediary · San Diego, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I had a few comments regarding the comments made above on 1031 Exchanges.

    Failure Rate

    We administer 1,000's of 1031 Exchanges each year, and historically only about 8% of client 1031 Exchanges fail. So, contrary to popular belief, most 1031 Exchanges are successful. This does not mean they are not stressful, just that they are completed. This statistic just gives you an idea of how many fail.

    O.K. to Pay Taxes

    We have certainly seen clients that have ended up buying property that they shouldn't have because of the deadlines involved. I highly recommend that clients structure a 1031 Exchange if they intend to reinvest in real estate and then do their best to locate suitable replacement properties within the deadlines. However, if they can not find suitable replacement property, it is o.k. to let the 1031 Exchange fail and pay the tax - its not the end of the world. In other words, put the 1031 Exchange in place, try your best to locate and identify suitable replacement property, proceed if you do, don't proceed if you can't.

    Don't let the tail wag the dog. The 1031 Exchange is a tax strategy. The primary concern should be the economics of the deal. Does it make sense? If not, don't buy just to defer the tax.

    Although we have also seen some clients acquire property that was less than desirable on purpose in order to defer the tax when they could not located suitable replacement property. It is a strategic tax planning strategy where they intent to hold for exactly 12 months and then reposition again into more suitable replacement property through another 1031 Exchange, but be careful that you don't settle for a "dog." Remember, if you go to bed with a dog you will likely wake up with fleas.

    But, to advise someone not to do a 1031 Exchange because of the timing involved when the investor's stated goal is to reinvest in real estate just does not make sense to me. Why not try with the worse case scenario being that the 1031 Exchange fails and they reinvest when they do find suitable replacement property?

    Reverse 1031 Exchange

    The Reverse 1031 Exchange has become very popular over the last 18 months. The Reverse 1031 Exchange allows the investor to take all the time they need to locate suitable replacement properties and then to acquire the replacement property first before they sell their relinquished property.

    Reverse 1031 Exchanges are more complicated, especially considering the fact that the Qualified Intermediary must acquire and hold ("park") legal title to one of the properties while the investor is selling their relinquished property, but they help to significantly reduce the risk of completing 1031 Exchanges in markets like today.

    Exeter 1031 Exchange Services, LLC and Exeter Trust Company4.726 Reviews
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