Middle ground between Grant Cardone and BP
Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 241 posts · 135 votes
Middle ground between Grant Cardone and BP
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Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes
9yFind your path.
I ended up in somewhat of a hybrid, but probably closer to the BP side and went to 141 units in 7 years, and adding more next month (7.25 years). I started with regular deals and they kept growing in size.
GC and his book the 10X rule has some good stuff, but stuff I don't like/agree with either. If you go all in on what he's saying there's a good chance you end up like this example in the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F$*k:
"It’s true, caring is what’s got us all f$*ked up. We care about the wrong damn things. For example, in the book, Mark talks about a guitar player who got fired from his original band. The guitarist vowed to become a rock legend. He filled stadiums, sold millions of records and won numerous awards. Yet, later in his life, when he was interviewed, he tearfully claimed his life was a failure.
That guitarist was Dave Mustane from Megadeth and the band who fired him was Metallica. Although to you and I, Megadeth was a huge success, to Dave, they were never Metallica. See, Dave gives a f$*k about the wrong sh*t. He gave a f$*k about how big Metallica was. Instead, he shouldn’t have given a f$*k and f$*king enjoyed the f$*k out of what he was f$*king doing. "
Read Rich Dad Poor Dad, BP, 10X Rule, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F$*k, Think and Grow Rich, and get The Daily Stoic... then figure out your path, and learn to be happy at wherever you're at.
64 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Greenwich, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
@Redgy Saint-Germain, all I know about Grant is the one time he was on the BP podcast. All I will say is that truly successful people don't need to tell you how successful they are. And Grant sure went out of his way to say how "successful" he is.
More BP, less Grant.
- Property Manager · Windsor Locks, CT · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Redgy Saint-Germain:
Hey guys,
I been following Grant Cardone, read the "10X rule" "Be obsessed or be average " etc but I feel like the Grant's message is a bit contradictory to what our BP contributors are suggesting(start small and work your way up). Ive done quite a few deals, gained valuable knowledge in real estate because of BP and will always be grateful to have such a wonderful platform and good contributors. I am looking for your thoughts on bridging Grant and BP to get the best of both worlds when looking at scaling your business.
Redgy
Hi Redgy - this is something I personally "struggle" with as well. I want to grow my property management company here in Connecticut, but I also see the value of being systematic and following a process. Just like most other things in life, it is a constant "push/pull" or "give/take". Part of me wants to follow the GC way, the other part is like "woahhhhhh buddy, slow down, debt is bad, cash is king" (see Dave Ramsey if you aren't familiar with already).
What I have personally done is take the motivational aspects of GC as well as the golden nuggets he has to offer, without necessarily going "off the deep end". Like with anything else, moderation is key.
Happy investing! - Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 367 votes9y
I like Grant and he's funny as **** but I think it's like the saying goes different strokes for different folks. I follow him very closely and he says don't invest in real estate unless you have 100k and willing to buy large MFHs.....well that's one of many strategies.....if I'm not mistaken he didn't even know what wholesaling was.....it's obvious to see that Grant strategy is buy and holds. I never heard of him saying he did flips either.....atleast not from the memory. But anyway, Grant mentions when he first got started he got a SFH somewhere and he got pretty mad when they moved out and he had to pay the mortgage. Well immnot sure if he knew all the way what he was doing then.....because he said he vowed to never buy SFHs again.
I personally think you have to knkw what direction you want to go in and where you see yourself after 5 years. Think for yourself and figure out what's best for you not for Grant. And like I said I love Grant and I agree with him on some things like the government, taxes,the school system and some other things. But that portion of real estate I don't. And it's ok to disagree with people and still like them or portions of their ideologies.
- Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes9yI have no idea who grant Cardon is other than comments on this question and a few times reading his name (should I know who he is?) Anyway. From reading these comments I'd put myself in the GC camp. Go big. I didn't get into this business to have a few extra rent homes Maloney a few thousand bucks a month. I want thousands of units and 1/4 million of free cash flow a month. You don't get there by being timid.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes9y
Who's Grant Cardone? 😂
Ok, that's a little running joke of mine. I think you always have to figure out your own path. Mine has been a smaller portfolio and not very much leverage (you can hear my story in this week's podcast, see link below). I don't think you should style yourself after anyone, whether it's Cardone, Buffett or me. If you want to scale, you have to figure out what makes sense for your market and your strategy.
I've read a couple of Cardone books. They are good for motivation, but a lot of it feels like aggrandizement to me.
Skyline Properties - Flipper/Rehabber · Riverdale, NY · Member since 2017 · 112 posts · 27 votes9yI love GC and his philosophy about 10X is basically like saying "GO BIG OR GO HOME". I can't write my weekly or yearly goals thinking small, what is the point of that? Plus I follow him on instagram and he is funny as **** and he inspires me to reach for the best version of me and strive for more. Like he says " you will never get anywhere by being complacent or frugal. You have to spend money to make money".
- Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes9yFind your path. I ended up in somewhat of a hybrid, but probably closer to the BP side and went to 141 units in 7 years, and adding more next month (7.25 years). I started with regular deals and they kept growing in size. GC and his book the 10X rule has some good stuff, but stuff I don't like/agree with either. If you go all in on what he's saying there's a good chance you end up like this example in the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F$*k: "It’s true, caring is what’s got us all f$*ked up. We care about the wrong damn things. For example, in the book, Mark talks about a guitar player who got fired from his original band. The guitarist vowed to become a rock legend. He filled stadiums, sold millions of records and won numerous awards. Yet, later in his life, when he was interviewed, he tearfully claimed his life was a failure. That guitarist was Dave Mustane from Megadeth and the band who fired him was Metallica. Although to you and I, Megadeth was a huge success, to Dave, they were never Metallica. See, Dave gives a f$*k about the wrong sh*t. He gave a f$*k about how big Metallica was. Instead, he shouldn’t have given a f$*k and f$*king enjoyed the f$*k out of what he was f$*king doing. " Read Rich Dad Poor Dad, BP, 10X Rule, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F$*k, Think and Grow Rich, and get The Daily Stoic... then figure out your path, and learn to be happy at wherever you're at.
- 9yAnthony GaydenPro MemberRental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Don't joke around, you are a 10X kind of person, and I realized that after hearing your podcast. You push very hard and your growth has been phenomenal especially considering your age. I think you have a lot more in common with Grant Cardone than you believe.
As for myself, I love Grant Cardone and I do not believe at all in settling. I read his book Be Obsessed or Be Average six times and I realized that the book was literally written for me. What he described in there literally was the way I try to do everything in my life, like a person with OCD who just is mentally unable to stop and give up.
I will continue to push and to grow. I won't settle for "average". My potential is literally unlimited.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes9y
I don't think finding your "enough" point is settling. That's like saying why eat one slice of cake when you can eat the whole cake, then go out and buy another cake and eat that whole cake too.
I believe life is a balance. Tim Ferriss notes ( from others, he didn't come up with it) that the very things you seek to fulfill you, destroys you in excess. Why have one house when you can have 1,000? Maybe you don't want to gear your life for a thousand houses.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes9yAnthony Gayden - the reasons I say I swing away from the GC side is exactly what Jd Martin just said. GC seems to want you arbitrarily 10X your goals, and seems to think that goals are just arbitrary in general. I guess if that's the case then yeah, go ahead and 10X it because it's all meaningless anyways. My goal was carefully calculated based on designing our ideal lifestyle. But GC would advocate 10X-ing it because you should always 10x your goal. Um, no thanks. I would rather travel and spend time with my wife than for both of to have to keep working full time towards a super high, arbitrary goal. Because then what?! What happens when we hit that goal? Then travel and spend time with my wife? I already calculated what I needed to do that the way we want to do it, so why would I wait for another 10x? The other reason I say I'm more on the BP side is my investments are mostly duplexes and single family and a lot of "BRRRR-ing". I have a few 4 plexes+, but I would say Brandon Turner and I's paths are fairly similar. Now what I will say towards GC is the reason I was able to take just average investing to this level somewhat quickly, was that I probably did 10X the reading, analyzing, and research than the average investor. That's the side of GC I can really get behind and advocate. Set a specific, meaningful goal. Then 10X your efforts.
- 9yKurt PhillipsPro MemberRealtor · Lancaster, OH · Member since 2017 · 163 posts · 120 votes
Great post @Redgy Saint-Germain. I agree with @Austin Fruechting and @JD Martin. I've followed Grant Cardone for about the last 9 months since I stumbled onto his 10X Rule, which is a fantastic read by the way. But the whole idea of arbitrarily 10Xing every goal in your life could be a train wreck if not handled with wisdom. There are certainly times to 10X something and laser focus on that one area for a short period of time. But, that may look different for different people. Austin put it right, 10x-ing may just be total immersion into reading, analyzing, and research in the beginning.
In other words, going BIG might be purchasing the FIRST duplex. To someone else going big might be a 100 unit mulit-family.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 241 posts · 135 votes9y
@Kurt Phillips I figured. I believe grant had over 300k to invest when he got his 38 units. it will take time for people to build this kinda cash.
Redgy
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 241 posts · 135 votes9y
@Filipe Pereira You are right on point. He is a great motivational speaker but I think the BP way is the best way to get started for most people, at the same time if you're not thinking 10X you may underestimate the time and effort needed to scale up your business. Its like an internal battle for me now.
There are so many ways to invest 200k other than investing the whole thing into a 10-16 units that would generate quicker cash 💰. A few flips can double that money shortly 😜.
Redgy
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 241 posts · 135 votes9y
Originally posted by @Austin Fruechting:
Find your path.
I ended up in somewhat of a hybrid, but probably closer to the BP side and went to 141 units in 7 years, and adding more next month (7.25 years). I started with regular deals and they kept growing in size.
GC and his book the 10X rule has some good stuff, but stuff I don't like/agree with either. If you go all in on what he's saying there's a good chance you end up like this example in the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F$*k:
"It’s true, caring is what’s got us all f$*ked up. We care about the wrong damn things. For example, in the book, Mark talks about a guitar player who got fired from his original band. The guitarist vowed to become a rock legend. He filled stadiums, sold millions of records and won numerous awards. Yet, later in his life, when he was interviewed, he tearfully claimed his life was a failure.
That guitarist was Dave Mustane from Megadeth and the band who fired him was Metallica. Although to you and I, Megadeth was a huge success, to Dave, they were never Metallica. See, Dave gives a f$*k about the wrong sh*t. He gave a f$*k about how big Metallica was. Instead, he shouldn’t have given a f$*k and f$*king enjoyed the f$*k out of what he was f$*king doing. "Read Rich Dad Poor Dad, BP, 10X Rule, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F$*k, Think and Grow Rich, and get The Daily Stoic... then figure out your path, and learn to be happy at wherever you're at.
Right on,
When I first started I didn't think I was gonna like it you know knocking down walls, choosing new floors etc, but I love it man, working on a rehab gives me freaking joy. I love making decisions, I love banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what would make a triplex stand out in an area, I love all the aspects of real estate. I do want to scale up but I think the GC way is a bit crazy.
I have to say, his advice on " Debt, Income and Taxes" have some value.
Redgy
- 9yAnthony GaydenPro MemberRental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I liked your podcast.
I'm going to use your cake example. You eat your slice of cake, but if you had the whole cake you could share cake with your family and those you care about.
I think a lot about the huge impact I could make if I had a lot of money. I'm not talking about just taking care of myself and my family. I am talking about literally helping thousands of people. Transforming the Black community. Transforming my city.
If you have read any of Grant Cardone's books, you would understand why I believe finding your "enough" point is settling. A lot of people think that they have enough, until they realize that they need more after an emergency hits.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Anthony Gayden:
I liked your podcast.
I'm going to use your cake example. You eat your slice of cake, but if you had the whole cake you could share cake with your family and those you care about.
I think a lot about the huge impact I could make if I had a lot of money. I'm not talking about just taking care of myself and my family. I am talking about literally helping thousands of people. Transforming the Black community. Transforming my city.
If you have read any of Grant Cardone's books, you would understand why I believe finding your "enough" point is settling. A lot of people think that they have enough, until they realize that they need more after an emergency hits.
Thanks!
I have read a couple of his books. They're not bad, it's just that the whole pie all the time thing doesn't work for me. I disagree with his premise that if you don't set out to own everything and conquer the world you are average and a settler. And everything has a cost. You might get money to help your family, or your community, but who is to say that the time you could have spent actually working on those issues or being with your family isn't more valuable than hustling to get more and more riches?
Skyline Properties - Lender · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2017 · 83 posts · 33 votes9y
I've read 7+ of Grant's books, and some of his short e-books. In my opinion, most of what he says is valuable. He tends to make statements with few caveats, which I think is one of his, seemingly, few flaws.
That being said, I seriously admire the guy. Being only 19 years old, having insanely aspirational goals, and being in sales, I like most of what he has to say.
I think some people simply don't want to have 5,000 units. I personally do. I feel that people who say they don't want that either don't want to fully commit, don't believe it's possible, or simply have other priorities and goals, which is fine in my opinion.
I disagree with the people who don't like Grant who try to tell you to lower your expectations, though. I agree with Grant when he says, "This is just them justifying their own lack of success or ambition to you."
Anyways, I hope somebody found my input valuable.
Peace, Love, & Positivity to you all,
Sincerely,
Dominic Balconi,
Future BP Podcast Guest
- Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes9yRedgy Saint-Germain - that stuff I love! The creative deal making and strategic value add is a lot of fun. But the leasing, rent collections, routine maintenance stuff is what I equivocate with landlording. The general property management stuff. And that stuff I do not like at all. The strategic stuff however is why I keep buying, because I enjoy that.
- Oceanside, CA · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 30 votes9y
I would say that the GC way of thinking can be very beneficial to most people. 10X your goals can be a bit arbitrary and can make your goals worthless but having "realistic" goals can also be extremely limiting. Most people set goals too low and underestimate their capability, looking for the satisfaction of reaching their goals. GC is also about 10Xing your action. 10X your daily goals in order to strive for what seems to be an impossible long term goal for example, set out to make 100 calls instead of 10 or make 10X more offers. As with any self help/motivational philosophy it will not apply to all but there is definitely things to be taken from his philosophy. Don't limit your capability by understating your goals, challenge yourself to go bigger because your shortfalls towards the 10X goal will probably land you in a position greater than where you were originally aiming for.
- Lender · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2017 · 83 posts · 33 votes9y
I own 3 of Grant's "Don't Be A Little *****" wristbands... Highly recommend them to anyone who wants a consistent reminder to stop settling and to take massive action!
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
I think most people take GC too literally. Its more of a mindset, and he needs his message to be extreme to get through to most people (myself included). Its not so much to say I literally need to change my goal from 1k units to 10k units, but rather to have a mindset that whatever I am going after, I can do more and achieve more doing so. 1k, 10k, 100k isn't sufficient, I need to push myself further.
BP works alongside that in a way. Here, we say "whoa, slow down, start with 1 first". And that's right. In order to get to 10, you need to learn from 1. Then to get to 100, you need to learn from the experiences of 10. GC sets the goal, BP is the roadmap to get there.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 241 posts · 135 votes9y
@Matthew Olszak Ohhhh man I like your message a lot, GC sets the goal, BP is the roadmap to get there. Couldnt have said it better mannnnnn, perfect way to bridge the two.
Redgy
- Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Redgy Saint-Germain:
@Matthew Olszak Ohhhh man I like your message a lot, GC sets the goal, BP is the roadmap to get there. Couldnt have said it better mannnnnn, perfect way to bridge the two.
Redgy
Why is GC setting your goal? Why is it your goal? What's the purpose of the goal? What is it meant to achieve for you? Where is it taking you?
See the problem with arbitrary goals is they are just that, arbitrary. People like GC and all the BS "motivational" business hustle IG accounts get people excited and feeling good for a moment in time. Some moments last longer than others, but it rarely lasts. The excitement of "Yeah I have the power to do this and I am going to go build an empire and make millions" rarely lasts because there's no real "why" behind it. Without a real reason for achieving something, most people will fizzle out quickly and not put in the effort and energy require. That's the danger in the GC side I see. It's all on the goal side I agree on the effort side.
Now if you can find a deep personal why for a massive goal then great.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 241 posts · 135 votes9y
@Austin Fruechting Maybe I explained myself incorrectly, I will never listen to Grant in terms of how many units I need to buy. He claims everyone should start with 16 units minimum, im working on a 12 units now. What makes sense for him is not gonna make sense for me because we dont have the same story. When I said he sets the goals I meant in terms of aiming high and achieving more. I know my "why" I know my numbers already, the motivation is there, listening to him gives most ppl the adrenaline that they need. At the end of the day we should create our own path.
Redgy
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Austin Fruechting:
Originally posted by @Redgy Saint-Germain:
@Matthew Olszak Ohhhh man I like your message a lot, GC sets the goal, BP is the roadmap to get there. Couldnt have said it better mannnnnn, perfect way to bridge the two.
Redgy
Why is GC setting your goal? Why is it your goal? What's the purpose of the goal? What is it meant to achieve for you? Where is it taking you?
See the problem with arbitrary goals is they are just that, arbitrary. People like GC and all the BS "motivational" business hustle IG accounts get people excited and feeling good for a moment in time. Some moments last longer than others, but it rarely lasts. The excitement of "Yeah I have the power to do this and I am going to go build an empire and make millions" rarely lasts because there's no real "why" behind it. Without a real reason for achieving something, most people will fizzle out quickly and not put in the effort and energy require. That's the danger in the GC side I see. It's all on the goal side I agree on the effort side.
Now if you can find a deep personal why for a massive goal then great.
I think the arbitrary/unicorn goals are more a problem coming from BP where the "everyone gets a trophy" mindset is perpetrated through the strategy that as long as you want it enough, you can get it. That's just not true - No matter how much I want it, I can't develop a 70 story downtown condo tower right now. I will probably never will be in that position. However, the GC mindset has enabled me from saying "I'm going to get this 100k listing" to questioning why am I not spending my time going after a 1MM listing. Then I independently analyze what I need to do to get there and take that action.
The GC strategy is just setting the right goals, and setting them high. You're on your own to line up your resources like BP to make those goals happen.
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