I can be a real A-Hole help me mend my ways

OP

Rental Property Investor · Windsor, CO · Member since 2017 · 79 posts · 57 votes

@Jay Hinrichs he was at the mercy of the seller as nothing but the LBP disclosure was attached. Which is why I know I am being unreasonable when I take my anger out on him. I’m just unsure how to temper myself in these moments.

James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Originally posted by @Jeremy Woods:

Let me start off by saying normally I’m funny, easy going and a joy to be around. But when it comes to real estate deals I’m the complete opposite.

Not only am I an agent myself but I purchase mainly out of state rentals so I have to rely on others to get me the necessary information in a timely manner. The other day I put an offer on a 28 unit, in order to get a prequal which of course the seller was demanding right away I needed a rent roll at the minimum for my lender. I asked my agent to get this information for me, three days later I finally received it. I was pissed because in my lenders eyes I look dumb for pushing hard to get a timely prequal when all she needed was a basic piece of information and we took forever to get it to her. Instead of letting it go I ripped my agent who is also my out of state property manager. In retrospect I know he can only go as fast as the seller but something about it just really set me off.

This is just one of many things where I have flown off the handle because I am not in the drivers seat of the situation and felt like I would have handled it better/differently. I feel like as an agent myself I have different expectations for what needs to get done and how I expect them to go. I know that no one will ever do deals like I do personally or manage my properties how I self manage the few that I still do but is my anger for these situations unrealistic. If not how can I be productive in my frustration?

I torn because my agent/property manager is great in so many areas; finding the best price on repairs, smoothing over issues with the city, managing remodels without crazy up charges and managing tough tenants but if I’m going to keep this relationship growing I need either learn to deal with my frustrations or I need to do something different.

Anyone else like me and if so who did you work on it?

Go directly to the listing agent next time. You're an agent yourself why do you need a buyer's agent? Fail to plan, plan to fail.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Windsor, CO · Member since 2017 · 79 posts · 57 votes

@James Wise very true, I guess I have to take some ownership if I have certain expectations. I use an Agent primarily because he’s also my property manager so it’s great way to continue that relationship (since he’ll be the one managing it) but also so that I have someone who can handle everything that I can’t being a state away.

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

I saw your title and a few BP members came to mind. Ooh, whose finally feeessing up? LOL Don't worry, you aren't one of them Jeremy. I can certainly be one as well :)

It's natural to be frustrated when an expectation isn't met. That's the definition of frustrated and it happens in one form or another pretty much every day to every person. The difference is how we respond to it.

A lot of us invest in RE specifically because of control. If we didn't need control, we would invest in index funds or something. The more moving parts outside our control (lenders, agents, sellers, title issues) the more likely we are to feel out of control and frustrated. Duh, right? The more outside our market we invest, the more moving parts. The more moving parts, the higher likelihood of having missed expectations. As an out OOS investor, you are in high frustration-ville from go.

I'd just apologize to my awesome PM (especially if he is awesome!) and count to ten next time. Realize an apathetic LA or seller is likely. Ask yourself if this (insert current missed expectation) will matter in 5 years and have a higher perspective.

It's normal to feel how you felt. We all have. Thanks for sharing!

11 Reply

Brian Ploszay

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Interesting post. In my life, demanding tenants often get better service. And we rely on our service providers - brokers, etc.. to do a good job.

If I was on the receiving end of your anger, I would most likely take notice and do the task quicker. Alternatively, I would put you in your place. If I don't have the document, I don't have it.

When I was involved in brokerage, I would cease to work with potential clients who were rough with me.

So you can continue your style, but do it smart so you don't chase your service providers away.

Levi T.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

A lot of employers do this with employees, always going after the mistakes or problems that happen with a transaction. Famous saying is, it’s hard to find good help.

It’s not that good help is hard to find, it’s just that people make mistakes. If you change your mindset from good help and perfect expectations, to people will make mistakes. Then start asking how can you help them avoid making these mistakes by building systems and processes when it happens, your people will be happier, like you more, work longer hours, and make less mistakes because you planned for it!

7 Reply

Mike Dymski

Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

Expecting others to do things how you would do it or to change their habits leads to unhappiness. Ask me how I know. Control your mind or it will control you.

"Managing the manager" sounds good in books and real estate school but does not work so well in real life.

Buy right, expect inefficiencies, and (prudently) scale as quickly as feasible.

5 Reply

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

"I can be a real A-Hole help me mend my ways"

I would like to help but I am generally an A-HOLE myself. I could suggest what I have tried but since it has been completely useless for me I doubt it would be much help.

6 Reply

Russell BrazilBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes

[email protected]301-893-4635 Podcast Guest on Show #192

I am an agent. I represent other agents at times. On my out of state stuff I have other agents represent me too.

It really isnt any different than talking with someone on a regular transaction. You have to stay cool headed, because everyone does things differently.

The more even keeled, the better you can communicate, the better you can get at winning people over to your way will make you a better agent and investor. Raport building might be the #1 best sales and negotiation skill to have.

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Account Closed

Plano, TX · Member since 2018 · 48 posts · 28 votes

Next time email your agent and cc the seller's agent, seller, and lender (and anyone else that might be relevant) that way everyone is on the same page about what is needed and there is one central channel of communication. This will also allow the lender to reach out directly if it is taking a while, and will keep you in the loop if there is some reason for the delay.

This also serves as a reminder because you never know if your agent was in the car, headed out the door, or for whatever reason the request slipped their mind, so it's good to provide a follow up reminder.

Mark Fries

Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

@Thomas S.

@Jeremy Woods

Maybe you guys could partner up on a deal?...lol

Kenny C.

New to Real Estate · Puyallup WA · Member since 2009 · 85 posts · 39 votes

@Jeremy Woods

I try to use this quote with many things in life.

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom."-Viktor E. Frankl

If you look into this there are a lot of resources. My understanding is this space although sometimes milliseconds. You can create more space mentally where this spece appears to slow down giving you more time to choose a response.

9 Reply

OP

Rental Property Investor · Windsor, CO · Member since 2017 · 79 posts · 57 votes

@Steve Vaughan that was what I really needed to hear, I appreciate that insight. I need to continue to look at the end goal and not bite the hand that helps feed me.

@Account Closed I really like that quote I’ve never heard it before I think I need to print that out and paste it on laptop.

Kenny C.

New to Real Estate · Puyallup WA · Member since 2009 · 85 posts · 39 votes

@Jeremy Woods it's a good one! I have it on a sticky in my wallet.

Sylvia B.

Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

If you really do want to change, the first step is a sincere and abject apology. It must be offered without excuses, taking full responsibility for your actions.

The second step is to commit to apologizing every time you blow up, and then follow through with that commitment. Dining on crow can be a powerful incentive to avoid the behavior that leads to that meal.

Third, and probably most important, you must realize that self-control is the only true control you ever have. You become frustrated with situations that you can't control, and that frustration quickly becomes rage. You still have no control over the situation that frustrated you, and now you have also lost control over yourself.
Before you find yourself in a frustrating situation, make a plan. Come up with alternative ways to vent your anger - stamp your foot, snap a rubber band on your wrist, snap your fingers, etc. Decide ahead of time what your reaction will be, and you will be much more likely to control your anger rather than allowing it to control you.

Finally, give yourself a reward when you do manage to control yourself. It doesn't need to be big, just positive.

The carrot and stick approach really does work, even when we use it on ourselves.

Lynnette E.

Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Lots of good advice above.

I'd ad that something else that may help is to set up a domino situation when you have a step you can not control

So, for your example, tell the realtor that you need the document and once you get the document it will take your lender XX days to produce the pre-qual letter. So, it is then up to the realtor to pass that information up the line, and you can sit back and wait, without a task looming that causes a potential missed deadline. The dominos are set up that you do not have an action until after they have taken their action, and you left enough time in the line for your lender to work without creating a crisis for him.

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Birmingham, MI · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 71 votes

@Jeremy Woods

Take a look at the book The No ******* Rule by Robert Sutton. He did a follow up called Good Boss, Bad Boss too.

John D.

Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes

I’ve taken to asking myself “what is my desired outcome from what I am about to say/write that I desire”?

If the desired outcome is losing an important relationship or straining one, and allowing oneself to vent and feel better for a few minutes, that’s not a very business forward approach.

If you cake your business, make the statement that best allows you to achieve your desired outcome and ask yourself that question prior to every response you make.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Windsor, CO · Member since 2017 · 79 posts · 57 votes

A teacher once told my class if we ever wanted to argue about a grade that we were given we need to wait 24 hours before he would be willing to talk to us about it. Giving us a forced time frame to think about our response. I need to start applying a version of that for myself.

@Account Closed I keep seeing that book around I will have to check it out.

James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Originally posted by @Jeremy Woods:

@James Wise very true, I guess I have to take some ownership if I have certain expectations. I use an Agent primarily because he’s also my property manager so it’s great way to continue that relationship (since he’ll be the one managing it) but also so that I have someone who can handle everything that I can’t being a state away.

If he's good at what he does he'll probably just fire you eventually. Then where are you going to be? My opinion is you can't really change your personality as easily as you can fix the process. Certain stuff pisses you off. Totally cool & normal. Lots of stuff pisses me off. If me being pissed off & going off on someone is going to have a negative impact in my business like being a state away & getting fired by my agent / PM i'd fix the process to avoid the situation.

You've got tools at your disposal. You are an agent, you know the biz. You don't need your hand held. Talk to your agent & explain what roll you are planning on taking during these transactions. Explain the new reduced roll you'd like your agent to take & see if he's cool with it then you can move forward without positioning him as the bad guy when all he really is, is the messenger most likely.

Rich Solano

Investor · Freehold, NJ · Member since 2017 · 51 posts · 12 votes

@Jeremy Woods Set better expectations of what you expect when working with someone. If it’s all on the table and they understand how you take action and the time frame in which you move, you have every right to take flip (kind of)

However, get in control of those emotions and play it out in your head. Type it out, right it out - hell even say it out loud, to yourself. Being an ******* in control is always better than being an uncontrolled one.

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

Podcast Guest on Show #222

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Jeremy Woods:

@James Wise very true, I guess I have to take some ownership if I have certain expectations. I use an Agent primarily because he’s also my property manager so it’s great way to continue that relationship (since he’ll be the one managing it) but also so that I have someone who can handle everything that I can’t being a state away.

If he's good at what he does he'll probably just fire you eventually. Then where are you going to be? My opinion is you can't really change your personality as easily as you can fix the process. Certain stuff pisses you off. Totally cool & normal. Lots of stuff pisses me off. If me being pissed off & going off on someone is going to have a negative impact in my business like being a state away & getting fired by my agent / PM i'd fix the process to avoid the situation.

You've got tools at your disposal. You are an agent, you know the biz. You don't need your hand held. Talk to your agent & explain what roll you are planning on taking during these transactions. Explain the new reduced roll you'd like your agent to take & see if he's cool with it then you can move forward without positioning him as the bad guy when all he really is, is the messenger most likely.

when I did this at the street level no way i would work for anyone that was just plain rude.. I would suggest they find someone else.. life is to short .. and as a broker you dont want to have this negativity affect your other deals.. I cant even imagine what you guys have to wade through in the PM business.. IE my rent is late by 12 hours what are you going to do about it. .. and how come there is a 37 dollar charge did you get 3 bids.. takes a certain personality to handle that crap.. but flip side you get a great client that you like dealing with and who U going to call first.. who are you going to bend over backwards for.. and then again in our industry depends on where we are in the cycle. but that is the great thing about real estate brokerage we are all Independent contractors and answer to no man or women at the end of the day. My favorite was refusing to let my agents work with the all hat no cattle I need to make 50 offers but I really have no money.. so many new agents would fall into that trap.. i would make them bring this buyer in and let me qualify them.

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Gary L Wallman

Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes

Jeremy,

I feel your pain sir. While many RE agents are diligent, there are a vast amount that seem to be inept sloths. Recent case in point: I am currently under contract for a commercial property. The Realtor who brought the property to my attention was going to be out of town so he arranged for the listing agent to show me the property. Long story short, this guy misses our appointment. A call to his cell phone goes unanswered. A call to the office phone listed on the sign at the property goes unanswered (it's noon for gosh sake). He finally calls us an hour later. We reschedule and he's late again.

We finally get in the property and he knows NOTHING about it. Useless as bumps on a frog. Square footage, don't know. Heat type, don't know. What's happening in the immediate area, don't know. Worse, this guy has been an agent forever.

The property worked for me, so unfortunately, this guy is going to make big bucks for doing something a trained monkey could do.

Does it make me angry and curt at times. You'd better believe it. Sometimes I'm not sure how anything in this world gets accomplished. Driven people are a rare commodity. If you are one, sloths will definitely piss you off.

Meryl McElwain

Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 102 posts · 181 votes

@Jeremy Woods

My first thought was that you need to map the steps in the process before doing a thing.

You're pissed because you think you look like a jag to the lender for pressuring her to move when she can't because she doesnt have the necessary information.

Before you even said a word to the lender I would have to the seller, "I'd be happy to give you a prequalification letter. In order to do that, I need the rent roll. After I receive that, I can provide you a PQL in 48 hours. (Assuming you know the lender can turn that fast) I don't like making promises on other peoples turnaround without talking to them first even if I have a history with them.

And then wait. Wait until you receive the required information before speaking to anyone on your side.

I used to deal with this all the time. People flipping out on me because I havent contacted the lender to start the process or I havent contacted the attorney on the buyers side. I'm generally always on sellers side. And I wont because it's a giant waste of everyone's time. To be frank, they're kind of jags for demanding a PQL without attaching the necessary underwriting documents to the listing, or at the very least sending them in the same email as the request for the PQL.

I generally send out a reminder email each day that says "I'm just following up on YOUR initial requirements. I'm waiting on the following from your party:

1. Rent roll

Please advise.

You cant control other peoples lack of preparation but you can refuse to waste your own teams time. I do it everyday. I could care less about the pressure to respond.