Investing in Ohio - Huge Mistake??
San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 5 votes
Investing in Ohio - Huge Mistake??
Most Popular Reply
Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votesI think it is probably a mistake.
I assume you are choosing Ohio for its low price. This low price is due to historically poor appreciation. Leveraged appreciation has an amazing effect on return.
The first BRRRR process is challenging if done locally; real challenging if done OOS. I have done a few BRRRR and have yet to achieve the textbook BRRRR. Mostly I find the refinance LTV combined with the low refinance appraisals prevent me from extracting all of my investment.
So if you choose to go OOS here is some advice:
- Familiarize your self with the 50% rule. Any low appreciation market that has pro-forma that does not reflect the 50% rule is bogus. TK providers and RE agents will present various return projections that over estimate the long term cash flow. Make sure the cash flow estimates reflects the 50% rule (probably 60% allocated to expenses other than debt service would be safer for the pro-forma in the low rent units).
- For the low rent OOS markets, 50% rule is not a large enough percent. This is because maintenance/cap expense has more to do with the RE abundant especially the structure than it has to do with the rent price. A water heater costs the same for the $4500/month 2 br San francisco unit as it does for the $500/month 2 BR Cleveland unit.
- Get a 3rd party inspection and appraiser. No discount is worth the added risk of not having the 3rd party review.
- Realize that if you purchase a TK, it will start to depreciate immediately after put in use. The rehab will start to age. This implies a year or two in, it is inevitable that your equity has been reduced.
- Avoid the highest projected cash flow pockets in any area. These are typically the class D areas. I use the word projected because these areas only achieve the projected cash flow by expert LL in that class of property. Most newbies will have worse actual cash flow from these RE than the lower projected cash flow class B areas. Basically class D is more difficult to hit the return projections than class B.
- Even modest appreciation areas, when leveraged, can provide a good return from appreciation. The historically zero appreciation areas will not benefit as much from the leverage. Example: 75% LTV appreciates 2.5% in the first year and you have a 10% return on your investment and a return that is positive in inflation adjusted dollars. Basically this means avoid all of the cheapest markets. If you can purchase a SFR for less than $100k then this is a low appreciation market.
- Low rent units set a low cash flow limit. How much cash flow can you hope to get from a OOS $600/month unit. One of my above bullets indicate expenses other than mortgage will be greater than 50%. Then take out the mortgage. Probably lucky to get $100/month true long term cash flow.
- The cash flow on appreciating market units will eventually always surpass the zero appreciation markets. It really is simply math.
28 Replies
- Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 65 posts · 32 votes7y
@Marian Henares
What are your longer term goals with the investments and where in Ohio? I’ve got a few properties in the NE Ohio market that I purchased for cash flow and have been happy with the performance so far. If I was investing for appreciation I would have a different view, but that wasn’t part of my investment strategy.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
its not the state that is the MISTAKE its thinking you can do a long distance rehab and refi when you ( assuming your not a contractor or any experience) that's the huge risk and mistake..
Reason why to force appreciation and stay within the 1% or better rule puts you squarely in C class props and now your trying to find this bargain basement contractor..
this idea of a dream team helping you is @James Wise can talk about.. just not reality.. there is not enough money for an agent selling you a 50k fixer to also run your dream team for you.
so its not the state its remote rehab that is the HUGE risk.. it can work.. people do it.. we do it but we are highly experienced and even at that we get screwed by contractors.. and if anyone says they never have then they either are very lucky have not done many deals or lying..
Just like anyone who flips houses and says they never lost money.
- 7yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
I think it is probably a mistake.
I assume you are choosing Ohio for its low price. This low price is due to historically poor appreciation. Leveraged appreciation has an amazing effect on return.
The first BRRRR process is challenging if done locally; real challenging if done OOS. I have done a few BRRRR and have yet to achieve the textbook BRRRR. Mostly I find the refinance LTV combined with the low refinance appraisals prevent me from extracting all of my investment.
So if you choose to go OOS here is some advice:
- Familiarize your self with the 50% rule. Any low appreciation market that has pro-forma that does not reflect the 50% rule is bogus. TK providers and RE agents will present various return projections that over estimate the long term cash flow. Make sure the cash flow estimates reflects the 50% rule (probably 60% allocated to expenses other than debt service would be safer for the pro-forma in the low rent units).
- For the low rent OOS markets, 50% rule is not a large enough percent. This is because maintenance/cap expense has more to do with the RE abundant especially the structure than it has to do with the rent price. A water heater costs the same for the $4500/month 2 br San francisco unit as it does for the $500/month 2 BR Cleveland unit.
- Get a 3rd party inspection and appraiser. No discount is worth the added risk of not having the 3rd party review.
- Realize that if you purchase a TK, it will start to depreciate immediately after put in use. The rehab will start to age. This implies a year or two in, it is inevitable that your equity has been reduced.
- Avoid the highest projected cash flow pockets in any area. These are typically the class D areas. I use the word projected because these areas only achieve the projected cash flow by expert LL in that class of property. Most newbies will have worse actual cash flow from these RE than the lower projected cash flow class B areas. Basically class D is more difficult to hit the return projections than class B.
- Even modest appreciation areas, when leveraged, can provide a good return from appreciation. The historically zero appreciation areas will not benefit as much from the leverage. Example: 75% LTV appreciates 2.5% in the first year and you have a 10% return on your investment and a return that is positive in inflation adjusted dollars. Basically this means avoid all of the cheapest markets. If you can purchase a SFR for less than $100k then this is a low appreciation market.
- Low rent units set a low cash flow limit. How much cash flow can you hope to get from a OOS $600/month unit. One of my above bullets indicate expenses other than mortgage will be greater than 50%. Then take out the mortgage. Probably lucky to get $100/month true long term cash flow.
- The cash flow on appreciating market units will eventually always surpass the zero appreciation markets. It really is simply math.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Dan H. nice summary.. every state or market these days has there up and coming areas Even Detroit.
but like most quality real estate cash flow with 20% down is not to be expected more like a place setter break even maybe cost you 100 bucks a month.. the real money is made in these areas through gentrification..
and getting in ahead of the wave.. we have seen this in most all markets.. day one 95% of the cash flow is every thing BP members would not even consider these..
but 5 years later.. those folks are sitting on true equity.. and tenant issue quite a bit less than the lower C class units and well D class is simply Russian roulette for a out of state investor.. only difference is there is 5 bullets in the in a six shooter instead of one.. :)
- Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
If you want to buy in Ohio strictly for cash flow then you are probably on to something. That's why I invest there. If you are trying to "flip" or rehab in Ohio then that's a whole different ball game. Too many people here in Cali believe that unfortunately appreciation is the only way to go.....and when they here about duplexes going for $120K in Ohio they turn their noses up at it. What they don't realize is that duplex can also generate at least $1200/mo in gross rents whereas in San Diego (where i was stationed) you won't find anything that meets the 1% rule. Ohio properties don't appreciate much in value ......but they also don't generally depreciate much either....it's just slow steady boring cash flow when done right. It's best to here what the individual meant when he yelled out "MISTAKE". Perhaps find out what his experiences and expectations have been when it comes to investing in Ohio.
- Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
What everyone above says + it is easy from the vantage point of San Diego to underestimate the nasty toll midwest winters take on properties. Maintenance costs will be higher than your experience will lead you to believe.
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
That is a very broad statement, and not really a fair one. A blanket statement of something not working isn't helpful. You can surely succeed in Ohio. It's not the state that matters, it's the properties you buy and the cities you buy them in.
How are you planning to BRRRR from so far away? Do you have a team in place?
- 7yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
Originally posted by @Brian Garlington:
If you want to buy in Ohio strictly for cash flow then you are probably on to something. That's why I invest there. If you are trying to "flip" or rehab in Ohio then that's a whole different ball game. Too many people here in Cali believe that unfortunately appreciation is the only way to go.....and when they here about duplexes going for $120K in Ohio they turn their noses up at it. What they don't realize is that duplex can also generate at least $1200/mo in gross rents whereas in San Diego (where i was stationed) you won't find anything that meets the 1% rule. Ohio properties don't appreciate much in value ......but they also don't generally depreciate much either....it's just slow steady boring cash flow when done right. It's best to here what the individual meant when he yelled out "MISTAKE". Perhaps find out what his experiences and expectations have been when it comes to investing in Ohio.
I suspect you know this but a major issue with the 1% rule is that it looks only at the initial cash flow and not the cash flow over the holding period. The cash flow in appreciating markets will always eventually surpass the zero appreciation markets. It is simple math.
The other big issue with the 1% rule is that it most values the most risky of properties because those properties, due to prices being set by market conditions, will always have the best rent to purchase ratios.
The ratio is at its best when used to compare similar RE for better return. It is nearly useless if applied to vastly different RE. In San Diego, the property I would tell the newbie to most avoid are the ones with the best rent to price ratio because they are either in a rough area or in an area that is perceived to have lower appreciation potential (usually far East county).
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Marian Henares:
Hello BP community!
I attended a real estate networking event this evening in my hometown of San Diego, CA, and during a segment where we each stood up and introduced ourselves to the group, I mentioned that I was interested in doing the BRRRR strategy and purchasing my first rental property in Ohio by the end of 2019 - someone in the crowd shouted out "Mistake!" I spoke with this person later in the evening and she informed me that Ohio would be a terrible place to invest. Any thoughts? Am I making a huge mistake by looking to invest in Ohio?
Thank you in advance for your insights.
Going for a full on BRRRR as your 1st property in a market you don't know is highly risky in any market, not just Ohio. When investing out of state I recommend you do some of the following to keep your risks as low as possible.
- Don't buy in the roughest neighborhood in the urban core. Pick a solid B-Class suburban area. Perhaps a nice 1950's built bungalow.
- Always hire a 3rd party property inspector to give you an unbiased feel for the home. The reports are 40-90 pages long and go through the entire house in great detail.
- Get an appraisal. If your using financing the bank requires this. This is good. The bank isn't going to let you blow their money. They have more skin in the game then you do.
- Make sure you get clear title. If using a lender this is a non issue. They will make you do this. It's those maniacs that buy homes cash via quit claim deed off of craigslist that really get screwed.
- Make sure your property manager is a licensed real estate brokerage.
- Understand you can not eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. If you are risk adverse real estate, (especially out of state) is not for you.
- Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes7y
Ohio has great opportunity and low taxes along with easy entry purchase price . I’m just a half hour away from the border and have gotten really close to buying over there several times .i researched youngstown and warren each week as part of my routine .its a great place and all but I wouldn’t want to be doing it remotely. Too many things can go wrong ..The only way I’d feel comfortable owning rentals there is if I self managed . Doing flips in low income areas is not going to work out well so get that out of your mind . Even local successful drug dealers don’t buy fine rehabbed homes in bad areas ,they go elsewhere like everybody else once they get two nickels to rub together .ohio is probably one of the top three or four states for cashflow in the country . There’s plenty of idiots there too ! Go watch James wise tenants from hell videos on YouTube and see
- Rental Property Investor · Canton, OH · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
@Marian Henares
As an Ohio investor, and since you had a follow-up conversation with that person, I'm curious as to what specific reasons they gave you for Ohio being a "terrible mistake?"
O-H...
- Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2016 · 139 posts · 136 votes7y
I guess someone should let Casto, Champion, and Preferred Living know that they're making a huge mistake.
- 7yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I guess someone should let Casto, Champion, and Preferred Living know that they're making a huge mistake.
Last I knew they were not newbies purchasing their first BRRRR. I hope you can see the difference. Large corporations/investors or local self managed are not the situation here.
Both can succeed in that market just as there are LLs that can do great in class D.
An OOS newbie is unlikely (but not impossible) to succeed in these situations.
I would not recommend class D for a newbie just as I would not recommend a newbie attempt their first BRRRR OOS In a historically 0 appreciation market.
- Contractor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 262 posts · 407 votes7y@Marian Henares Totally depends on your goal! If you're looking for cashflow, midwest is where it's at currently. Tremendous Appreciation is unlikely though. If you're looking for an equity play, then stay on the coasts and emerging markets. I'm on both sides of the game. I have cash flowing properties in the midwest as well as a couple properties in the Bay Area and Austin TX. I personally prefer to stay diversified We are living in an amazing era with the internet. There are lots of opportunities available for everyone! Best of luck!
- Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes7y
@Marian Henares we invest in northwest Ohio remotely and it’s fine if you know what you are doing and have slightly lower expectations on timeline and budget. But like everyone else have said if you are under capitalized and buying in terrible neighborhoods then you are very likely to have a bad time
We just wrapped up our third purchase. This the first one where I’ve been completely remote. However I have boots on the ground. My contractor had a personal relationship with me and this is the third rehab he has done for me.
- Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Marian Henares:
Hello BP community!
I attended a real estate networking event this evening in my hometown of San Diego, CA, and during a segment where we each stood up and introduced ourselves to the group, I mentioned that I was interested in doing the BRRRR strategy and purchasing my first rental property in Ohio by the end of 2019 - someone in the crowd shouted out "Mistake!" I spoke with this person later in the evening and she informed me that Ohio would be a terrible place to invest. Any thoughts? Am I making a huge mistake by looking to invest in Ohio?
Thank you in advance for your insights.
Did she give any specifics as to why? Also, which part of Ohio? Ohio is a big state with lots of markets. There is a big difference between places like Youngstown, Toledo and Dayton Vs. Cleveland, Cincinnati and Columbus.
- 7yJordan MoorheadBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Marian Henares I wouldn't put my money in Ohio but that's my personal opinion. I would in Cincy but not the northern low cost cities.
The Moorhead Team5140 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Dan awesome post. Someone should sticky it! I agree 100% and think this is one of the parts BP misses is that leveraged gains from appreciation are huge and will typically way out perform the cashflow. Also about how costs are fixed I see so many newbies running 10% cap/ex on all buildings and then thinking the one in the hood with low rents will cashflow more. I run all analysis with fixed costs for cap/ex regardless of what rent %.
Originally posted by @Dan H.:I think it is probably a mistake.
I assume you are choosing Ohio for its low price. This low price is due to historically poor appreciation. Leveraged appreciation has an amazing effect on return.
The first BRRRR process is challenging if done locally; real challenging if done OOS. I have done a few BRRRR and have yet to achieve the textbook BRRRR. Mostly I find the refinance LTV combined with the low refinance appraisals prevent me from extracting all of my investment.
So if you choose to go OOS here is some advice:
- Familiarize your self with the 50% rule. Any low appreciation market that has pro-forma that does not reflect the 50% rule is bogus. TK providers and RE agents will present various return projections that over estimate the long term cash flow. Make sure the cash flow estimates reflects the 50% rule (probably 60% allocated to expenses other than debt service would be safer for the pro-forma in the low rent units).
- For the low rent OOS markets, 50% rule is not a large enough percent. This is because maintenance/cap expense has more to do with the RE abundant especially the structure than it has to do with the rent price. A water heater costs the same for the $4500/month 2 br San francisco unit as it does for the $500/month 2 BR Cleveland unit.
- Get a 3rd party inspection and appraiser. No discount is worth the added risk of not having the 3rd party review.
- Realize that if you purchase a TK, it will start to depreciate immediately after put in use. The rehab will start to age. This implies a year or two in, it is inevitable that your equity has been reduced.
- Avoid the highest projected cash flow pockets in any area. These are typically the class D areas. I use the word projected because these areas only achieve the projected cash flow by expert LL in that class of property. Most newbies will have worse actual cash flow from these RE than the lower projected cash flow class B areas. Basically class D is more difficult to hit the return projections than class B.
- Even modest appreciation areas, when leveraged, can provide a good return from appreciation. The historically zero appreciation areas will not benefit as much from the leverage. Example: 75% LTV appreciates 2.5% in the first year and you have a 10% return on your investment and a return that is positive in inflation adjusted dollars. Basically this means avoid all of the cheapest markets. If you can purchase a SFR for less than $100k then this is a low appreciation market.
- Low rent units set a low cash flow limit. How much cash flow can you hope to get from a OOS $600/month unit. One of my above bullets indicate expenses other than mortgage will be greater than 50%. Then take out the mortgage. Probably lucky to get $100/month true long term cash flow.
- The cash flow on appreciating market units will eventually always surpass the zero appreciation markets. It really is simply math.
The lure of the low cost purchase and initial cash flow (mostly exaggerated) make markets like Ohio tempting for investors from high cost areas. Ironically it is this low purchase cost that is why OOS investors should avoid these markets.
Good luck
- Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 31 votes7y
@Marian Henares Ohio being and terrible place to invest is an oversimplified hasty generalization. There's too much evidence to the contrary. Many investors are making serious profits by investing in Ohio. Many different strategies work for these investors. We invest in Toledo and we're OOS in Cali. Over the last few years, we've refined our approach to effectively take what the market gives us as aligned with our goals and circumstances; OOS, decent W2s, time obligations, family, etc. What we've learned over time is, we don't feel the return is worth the effort trying to BRRR from a distance. We're focused on our criteria and transaction execution that simplifies the efforts and processes to generate us cash flow. We're in it for cash flow. To me there are too many moving parts and risk factors to attempt a BRRR from OOS. I suggest really dialing in your goals and desired outcomes. Then study a few markets and narrow it down. At the end of the day, it will come down to your team on the ground. The people matter most in this equation. Investing in any market has the potential to be a disastrous failure. The point is to mitigate the risks through education and leveraging the experience and connections of others. There will be plenty of people along the way to tell you why not to do something. Align with people to help guide you to do something right or better. There are people killing it in Ohio. How are they doing it? There are also people flaming out in Ohio. How do you learn from their mistakes?
- Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
this idea of a dream team helping you is @James Wise can talk about.. just not reality..
SHOTS FIRED
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Michael S.:
@Marian Henares Ohio being and terrible place to invest is an oversimplified hasty generalization. There's too much evidence to the contrary. Many investors are making serious profits by investing in Ohio. Many different strategies work for these investors. We invest in Toledo and we're OOS in Cali. Over the last few years, we've refined our approach to effectively take what the market gives us as aligned with our goals and circumstances; OOS, decent W2s, time obligations, family, etc. What we've learned over time is, we don't feel the return is worth the effort trying to BRRR from a distance. We're focused on our criteria and transaction execution that simplifies the efforts and processes to generate us cash flow. We're in it for cash flow. To me there are too many moving parts and risk factors to attempt a BRRR from OOS. I suggest really dialing in your goals and desired outcomes. Then study a few markets and narrow it down. At the end of the day, it will come down to your team on the ground. The people matter most in this equation. Investing in any market has the potential to be a disastrous failure. The point is to mitigate the risks through education and leveraging the experience and connections of others. There will be plenty of people along the way to tell you why not to do something. Align with people to help guide you to do something right or better. There are people killing it in Ohio. How are they doing it? There are also people flaming out in Ohio. How do you learn from their mistakes?
there is nothing more risky in real estate than OOS investor attempting to rehab across the country.. especially in markets were price points to make it work put you in lower end rentals.. the risks are numerous.. but I know it sells well in theory and some can do really well but give me a first time investor and man that is a receipe and not a good one.
- Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 9 votes7y
I haven't read everyone's comment on here but I think that's someone's opinion. I don't like to think there are any mistakes. A loss for someone can be a win for someone else. I would first see why that person is saying "mistake" and see how you would solve his situation. If you don't know how to solve what he thinks is a mistake, then I agree that it might be a mistake to go to Ohio.
- San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 5 votes7y
Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate the responses and it has given me a lot to consider.
In regards to further clarifying my thought process and that of the person who objected to my plan of the OOS BRRRR in Ohio, I will explain below.
My viewpoint:
- Why BRRR? My husband and I want to use the BRRR strategy so that we could potentially re-invest the same capital to begin building our portfolio of cash flowing properties.
- Why OOS? San Diego is too expensive for us to BRRR with the capital we have.
- Why Ohio?
- My husband’s uncle is an electrician in Lancaster, OH, and my husband’s dad’s best friend is a developer in OH. We were hoping to use those connections to find referrals and create some sort of boots on the ground situation.
- With the capital we have, SFHs below $100K is what we can afford. Also, for our first attempt at the OOS BRRR, we wanted to work with lower priced properties while we are gaining experience. The goal was to move on to higher priced markets with better appreciation.
The objector’s viewpoint:
- I need to own a home first before investing in real estate – build equity and experience in home ownership and then move on to investment properties.
- I need to invest somewhere closer, states such as Nevada, Arizona, or Texas, so that I can hop on a plane and be there in a few hours if need be. Also, those are the states that people are moving to; people aren’t moving to OH.
- I’ve never worked with contractors: I’ll get eaten alive.
- Since I have never been to OH, I need to go there for myself and drive the neighborhoods to get a feel for good locations to invest.
- Additionally, there was concern for my lack of experience in managing the challenges of the weather in OH and properties subject to snowfall.
At the time, I thought the objector was more opposed to the idea of investing in Ohio; however, in retrospect I see that she had several concerns: newbie investor + OOS + BRRR + Ohio. Similar to concerns that have been brought up in this forum. All valid points to take into consideration, and having heard multiple opinions from different angles it helps to put the objector's arguments into perspective now.
Thanks again for the feedback, my husband and I will use this information to figure out a plan for us moving forward. And if anyone has any additional feedback, or thoughts on where to invest, we would certainly love to hear it through this forum or private message.
Sincerely,
Shook Newbie Investor
- Real Estate Agent · Circleville, OH · Member since 2008 · 633 posts · 488 votes7y
The cheaper you go on houses, the more work they involve. For out of state investing you have to have amazing management. If you can find management that can handle all the aspects you'll be good to go, but I always question managers - if you can manage well, why haven't you gone out and just DIY.
Central Ohio, including Lancaster is a great place to buy, but with cheaper properties, management can get tricky, both on renting but also on rehab which you will have to do if you are wanting to pull out equity for a BRRR.
I'd also like to mention that you're also going to need a off market purchase plan with due diligence. It's been well over a year since I have seen quality investment properties on the MLS in Central Ohio. All the decent deals are off market and you'll have to have an acquisition path for it.
Anything is possible, but I'd recommend you come to your desired area of Ohio for a few months in person to look at things, rather than trying the whole process from afar.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
you mitigate the out of state risk with family member watching the construction crew.
but what do you achieve doing this.
you end up leveraged to the max and you TIE up your very very valuable 4 mortgage slots.. only way this makes sense is scale and scale quickly.
In addition there is a very real possibility in these areas of the appraisals not coming in where you need them to get your cash back.. at least all your cash back.. so keep that in mind..
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.