A Call for Leaders in our Industry to Speak Loudly!

A Call for Leaders in our Industry to Speak Loudly!

Chris ClothierBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I’ve seen a few disturbing posts recently, mostly on social media, but a few here on BP as well, where the posters are reacting almost with glee that we may finally be heading toward a dip in real estate so they can cash in on good deals.

This post is strictly my personal opinion, but also a call for others in the real estate industry who came through the previous crash to provide some much-needed levity right now. Not only did my family’s company come through the crash, but so did I personally. Memphis Invest had been around since 2003 and was already a leader in the Turnkey real estate space. I don’t claim to know every company in the country, but I do know that there are very few today who were operating in that space at that time, so I think it is definitely on us to share reflection for other business operators and investors.

I also came through the last recession as an investor having bought my first property in 2002 and owning as many as 57 single-family homes at one time. I can tell you that most of what we are seeing and hearing today is simply fear-based reaction…and that goes for the knuckleheads talking about how much money they are going to make. If you do not have a heightened sense of fear right now, then you may be heading for mistakes. Fear is something that means we are alert to the fact that there is danger. We make moves based on faith, but our fear is what keeps us from getting cocky. I believe that a smart investor can make money in any city and in any market – including those that are buying properties right now. It simply takes a healthy understanding and respect for where we are.

This is not a time for popping off about how much money any of us are going to make in a market crash. This is certainly not a time for celebrating a possible drop in prices so we can pick up some low-priced properties. If you have been a cautious investor and have been planning for a time when you can invest in a bigger way, perhaps that time is coming. The best investors I know aren’t posting to social media or anywhere else about how much money they have or how much they are going to make. They go about their business as usual and never flash dollar bills, copies of checks, nor tell the world what their next move is. They simply do it.

There will be a lot of hurt in the next few weeks and possibly months. There is a distinct possibility that people will miss paychecks and others may lose their jobs. There is a relatively small possibility right now that prices go down and some properties become available at discounts compared to what you could pay last week. That would be market specific and often neighborhood specific. Even in 2009-2011, some cities saw tremendous growth and increases in value, while others saw retraction and falling values. We simply don’t know yet exactly how this will play out. Some combination of those things will mean that we as investors will have some choices to make. Here is how I hope my own choices are viewed when I look back.

If I want my residents to treat me with respect, then I need to treat them with respect. Now is a time for understanding and compassion. If we find ourselves in need of help from lenders and creditors, did we extend that same help to our residents? How about our vendors and the laborers who work on our properties? This is not the time to slow pay or no pay! Now is the time to stand up and act like an investor. We take risks – and hopefully they are always calculated risks – and that means we have to be prepared for a few bumps.

Now is not the time to cancel contracts out of fear, but it is a time to be prudent. If building out your portfolio was part of your plan and you have contingencies and monies set aside for investments, then by all means move forward. If you are speculating and hoping for a good outcome, now may be the time to pull back and learn a bit more. I have been on the phone today with a lot of investors, some I’ve known for a long time and some are newer to real estate, and my advice to all of them has been that we have been here before. As a company and as an investor, I can say with confidence that I believe that this turmoil will end. It may end quickly or may drag on for a while. I am very confident that the news cycle is going to be very scary. But I am equally confident that if we look for the good we can find it. I believe that at some point in 2020, we are going to look back and say “wow, that was a helluva roller coaster right there!”

I urge everyone reading this to be patient. Know your reasoning for buying real estate right now, whether you are looking to wholesale properties, invest in REITs or syndications, quick turn a property for a profit or buy single-family homes or multi-families for long-term buy & hold. If your long-term plans for real estate investing haven’t changed, then your short-term plans should not change either. Whatever your reasoning, I believe the fundamentals in many, many different cities around the country are sound. I definitely think the local economies are going to count on us to keep operating. Now is just a good time to be prudent and cautious and conduct our business in the most professional way possible.

I’ll end my post with this and an invitation to share.

I am a firm believer in faith and fear. I spoke of them earlier in the post. They are opposite reactions to the same belief. A belief in the unknown. I think it is healthy to have fear present because it keeps us from making silly moves and maybe keeps us humble. However, faith is how we move forward. It is what helps us make confident decisions and keeps us strong.

We’ve been here before as investors and we will all come through the current haziness a little clearer and better for it if we treat others the way we want to be treated. So, have faith! @Steve Rozenberg

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y

Nice post Chris as we see the " I cant wait for a crash so I can cash in sentiment a lot on this site"  And probably from the majority that never lived through tough financial times.. Myself being in the business since 75 I have lived and worked through 4 of them and well not sure how much real estate will be affected by this latest one the VIRUS.  It feeds on itself the negative sentiment. 

Its also wishful thinking in my mind to believe that this Virus Pandemic hits us in the last month or so, and tomorrow there are going to be foreclosures all over the place and investors selling their properties for loss's.

As long as credit remains available investors will still buy and this situation will subside in 2 to 6 months. 

I think the lessons learned though for those in real estate especially the buy hold niche is when your providers or financial folks are running proforma's that show reserves for vacancy cap ex etc. that these are not numbers to just think about but numbers that need to move to cash and set in accounts for these exact scenarios. 

I see this as a wake up call to all investors to make sure they run their numbers and adhere to them. 

I also am somewhat stunned at some of the responses I have seen when I made a post a few weeks back ( as I was pretty sure landlords would have to work with their tenants short term during this crisis)  that those in the rental business were pretty cavalier with reponses like  ( No pay NO stay,  Not my issue, We are not a charity, ) so on and so forth.. 

As one who worked through the GFC we learned in these types of situations taking the hardline will cost you far more money than extending some further credit or waving some rent or payments. As you know the Banks learned this the hard way it took them a few years but once they realized what the realities were you saw all sorts of mitigation plans borrowers could use so they could keep their properties. 

I think current investors need to learn from those situations and get in front of it.. not take such hard stances that you create animosity with your customers / tenants etc.  Investors can be their own worst enemy when they take hard line stances.  I mean really lets say you forgive half rent for 2 months on a 1000.00 rental that's 1000.00 and maybe you ask the tenant to pay you back over the next year or maybe you just waive it all together, the benefits are your house stays occupied your tenants are grateful, as opposed to your tenants are not happy with you the city county says no evictions during these times and now you really have a mess on your hand when you could have cut it off in the beginning.. So then last point if you as a landlord cant afford 1k one time in the course of a year then your not properly capitalized and you might want to re think your safety nets. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Clothier:

    I’ve seen a few disturbing posts recently, mostly on social media, but a few here on BP as well, where the posters are reacting almost with glee that we may finally be heading toward a dip in real estate so they can cash in on good deals.

    This post is strictly my personal opinion, but also a call for others in the real estate industry who came through the previous crash to provide some much-needed levity right now. Not only did my family's company, REI Nation (formerly Memphis Invest) come through the crash, but so did I personally. Memphis Invest had been around since 2003 and was already a leader in the Turnkey real estate space. I don't claim to know every company in the country, but I do know that there are very few today who were operating in that space at that time, so I think it is definitely on us to share reflection for other business operators and investors.

    I also came through the last recession as an investor having bought my first property in 2002 and owning as many as 57 single-family homes at one time. I can tell you that most of what we are seeing and hearing today is simply fear-based reaction…and that goes for the knuckleheads talking about how much money they are going to make. If you do not have a heightened sense of fear right now, then you may be heading for mistakes. Fear is something that means we are alert to the fact that there is danger. We make moves based on faith, but our fear is what keeps us from getting cocky. I believe that a smart investor can make money in any city and in any market – including those that are buying properties right now. It simply takes a healthy understanding and respect for where we are.

    This is not a time for popping off about how much money any of us are going to make in a market crash. This is certainly not a time for celebrating a possible drop in prices so we can pick up some low-priced properties. If you have been a cautious investor and have been planning for a time when you can invest in a bigger way, perhaps that time is coming. The best investors I know aren’t posting to social media or anywhere else about how much money they have or how much they are going to make. They go about their business as usual and never flash dollar bills, copies of checks, nor tell the world what their next move is. They simply do it.

    There will be a lot of hurt in the next few weeks and possibly months. There is a distinct possibility that people will miss paychecks and others may lose their jobs. There is a relatively small possibility right now that prices go down and some properties become available at discounts compared to what you could pay last week. That would be market specific and often neighborhood specific. Even in 2009-2011, some cities saw tremendous growth and increases in value, while others saw retraction and falling values. We simply don’t know yet exactly how this will play out. Some combination of those things will mean that we as investors will have some choices to make. Here is how I hope my own choices are viewed when I look back.

    If I want my residents to treat me with respect, then I need to treat them with respect. Now is a time for understanding and compassion. If we find ourselves in need of help from lenders and creditors, did we extend that same help to our residents? How about our vendors and the laborers who work on our properties? This is not the time to slow pay or no pay! Now is the time to stand up and act like an investor. We take risks – and hopefully they are always calculated risks – and that means we have to be prepared for a few bumps.

    Now is not the time to cancel contracts out of fear, but it is a time to be prudent. If building out your portfolio was part of your plan and you have contingencies and monies set aside for investments, then by all means move forward. If you are speculating and hoping for a good outcome, now may be the time to pull back and learn a bit more. I have been on the phone today with a lot of investors, some I’ve known for a long time and some are newer to real estate, and my advice to all of them has been that we have been here before. As a company and as an investor, I can say with confidence that I believe that this turmoil will end. It may end quickly or may drag on for a while. I am very confident that the news cycle is going to be very scary. But I am equally confident that if we look for the good we can find it. I believe that at some point in 2020, we are going to look back and say “wow, that was a helluva roller coaster right there!”

    I urge everyone reading this to be patient. Know your reasoning for buying real estate right now, whether you are looking to wholesale properties, invest in REITs or syndications, quick turn a property for a profit or buy single-family homes or multi-families for long-term buy & hold. If your long-term plans for real estate investing haven’t changed, then your short-term plans should not change either. Whatever your reasoning, I believe the fundamentals in many, many different cities around the country are sound. I definitely think the local economies are going to count on us to keep operating. Now is just a good time to be prudent and cautious and conduct our business in the most professional way possible.

    I’ll end my post with this and an invitation to share.

    I am a firm believer in faith and fear. I spoke of them earlier in the post. They are opposite reactions to the same belief. A belief in the unknown. I think it is healthy to have fear present because it keeps us from making silly moves and maybe keeps us humble. However, faith is how we move forward. It is what helps us make confident decisions and keeps us strong.

    We’ve been here before as investors and we will all come through the current haziness a little clearer and better for it if we treat others the way we want to be treated. So, have faith!

    @Steve Rozenberg

    Preach it, brother. Anyone wishing for this or looking forward to the fallout is  either a mental case or a psychopath. This is really scary for a lot of people.

     I'm all for making money but not at the expense of other people's real misery. 

    Skyline Properties
    View Page
  • Member since 2018 · 175 posts · 103 votes
    6y

    Everyone should be worried about rent checks coming in on the first. I'd rather the market stay where it is and collect rent than a downturn, a good deal, and no rent income.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    Nice post Chris as we see the " I cant wait for a crash so I can cash in sentiment a lot on this site"  And probably from the majority that never lived through tough financial times.. Myself being in the business since 75 I have lived and worked through 4 of them and well not sure how much real estate will be affected by this latest one the VIRUS.  It feeds on itself the negative sentiment. 

    Its also wishful thinking in my mind to believe that this Virus Pandemic hits us in the last month or so, and tomorrow there are going to be foreclosures all over the place and investors selling their properties for loss's.

    As long as credit remains available investors will still buy and this situation will subside in 2 to 6 months. 

    I think the lessons learned though for those in real estate especially the buy hold niche is when your providers or financial folks are running proforma's that show reserves for vacancy cap ex etc. that these are not numbers to just think about but numbers that need to move to cash and set in accounts for these exact scenarios. 

    I see this as a wake up call to all investors to make sure they run their numbers and adhere to them. 

    I also am somewhat stunned at some of the responses I have seen when I made a post a few weeks back ( as I was pretty sure landlords would have to work with their tenants short term during this crisis)  that those in the rental business were pretty cavalier with reponses like  ( No pay NO stay,  Not my issue, We are not a charity, ) so on and so forth.. 

    As one who worked through the GFC we learned in these types of situations taking the hardline will cost you far more money than extending some further credit or waving some rent or payments. As you know the Banks learned this the hard way it took them a few years but once they realized what the realities were you saw all sorts of mitigation plans borrowers could use so they could keep their properties. 

    I think current investors need to learn from those situations and get in front of it.. not take such hard stances that you create animosity with your customers / tenants etc.  Investors can be their own worst enemy when they take hard line stances.  I mean really lets say you forgive half rent for 2 months on a 1000.00 rental that's 1000.00 and maybe you ask the tenant to pay you back over the next year or maybe you just waive it all together, the benefits are your house stays occupied your tenants are grateful, as opposed to your tenants are not happy with you the city county says no evictions during these times and now you really have a mess on your hand when you could have cut it off in the beginning.. So then last point if you as a landlord cant afford 1k one time in the course of a year then your not properly capitalized and you might want to re think your safety nets. 

  • Steve RozenbergPro Member
    Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Very well said @Chris Clothier. From myself getting thrust into this world of real estate as a result of 9/11 and ripped my life apart as an airline pilot. Getting into real estate was a must not a want. And the mistakes that followed were fast and furious and going thru the SARS, Foot and Mouth, oil bust, Hurricane Harvey and Hurricane Ike, and the 2008 recession. And being more focused on my “why” never proved more relevant and important. If anyone has ever walked those shoes and had the sleepless nights knows this is not something you gloat and make comments to feed the fear and try to look smarter then the average. For people like us that have walked the walk and continue to do so On a daily basis makes you look weak and foolish  and I do believe in such a thing as karma.. it happens and be very careful exploiting others losses and trying to capitalize on them. To me that’s not what this is about. It’s about community and building wealth by helping one another

  • Investor · Eagle, ID · Member since 2014 · 82 posts · 75 votes
    6y

    Chris & Jay, thank you for sharing! I always try to read what both of you write. And this topic is a great example of why.  I work in the petroleum field as a sea going captain, and have my own worries. How ever, I share my tenants concerns about paying the rent and getting through this. I appreciate you both taking the time to point out what years of experience have taught you!  

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @JD Martin:
    Originally posted by @Chris Clothier:

    I’ve seen a few disturbing posts recently, mostly on social media, but a few here on BP as well, where the posters are reacting almost with glee that we may finally be heading toward a dip in real estate so they can cash in on good deals.

    This post is strictly my personal opinion, but also a call for others in the real estate industry who came through the previous crash to provide some much-needed levity right now. Not only did my family's company, REI Nation (formerly Memphis Invest) come through the crash, but so did I personally. Memphis Invest had been around since 2003 and was already a leader in the Turnkey real estate space. I don't claim to know every company in the country, but I do know that there are very few today who were operating in that space at that time, so I think it is definitely on us to share reflection for other business operators and investors.

    I also came through the last recession as an investor having bought my first property in 2002 and owning as many as 57 single-family homes at one time. I can tell you that most of what we are seeing and hearing today is simply fear-based reaction…and that goes for the knuckleheads talking about how much money they are going to make. If you do not have a heightened sense of fear right now, then you may be heading for mistakes. Fear is something that means we are alert to the fact that there is danger. We make moves based on faith, but our fear is what keeps us from getting cocky. I believe that a smart investor can make money in any city and in any market – including those that are buying properties right now. It simply takes a healthy understanding and respect for where we are.

    This is not a time for popping off about how much money any of us are going to make in a market crash. This is certainly not a time for celebrating a possible drop in prices so we can pick up some low-priced properties. If you have been a cautious investor and have been planning for a time when you can invest in a bigger way, perhaps that time is coming. The best investors I know aren’t posting to social media or anywhere else about how much money they have or how much they are going to make. They go about their business as usual and never flash dollar bills, copies of checks, nor tell the world what their next move is. They simply do it.

    There will be a lot of hurt in the next few weeks and possibly months. There is a distinct possibility that people will miss paychecks and others may lose their jobs. There is a relatively small possibility right now that prices go down and some properties become available at discounts compared to what you could pay last week. That would be market specific and often neighborhood specific. Even in 2009-2011, some cities saw tremendous growth and increases in value, while others saw retraction and falling values. We simply don’t know yet exactly how this will play out. Some combination of those things will mean that we as investors will have some choices to make. Here is how I hope my own choices are viewed when I look back.

    If I want my residents to treat me with respect, then I need to treat them with respect. Now is a time for understanding and compassion. If we find ourselves in need of help from lenders and creditors, did we extend that same help to our residents? How about our vendors and the laborers who work on our properties? This is not the time to slow pay or no pay! Now is the time to stand up and act like an investor. We take risks – and hopefully they are always calculated risks – and that means we have to be prepared for a few bumps.

    Now is not the time to cancel contracts out of fear, but it is a time to be prudent. If building out your portfolio was part of your plan and you have contingencies and monies set aside for investments, then by all means move forward. If you are speculating and hoping for a good outcome, now may be the time to pull back and learn a bit more. I have been on the phone today with a lot of investors, some I’ve known for a long time and some are newer to real estate, and my advice to all of them has been that we have been here before. As a company and as an investor, I can say with confidence that I believe that this turmoil will end. It may end quickly or may drag on for a while. I am very confident that the news cycle is going to be very scary. But I am equally confident that if we look for the good we can find it. I believe that at some point in 2020, we are going to look back and say “wow, that was a helluva roller coaster right there!”

    I urge everyone reading this to be patient. Know your reasoning for buying real estate right now, whether you are looking to wholesale properties, invest in REITs or syndications, quick turn a property for a profit or buy single-family homes or multi-families for long-term buy & hold. If your long-term plans for real estate investing haven’t changed, then your short-term plans should not change either. Whatever your reasoning, I believe the fundamentals in many, many different cities around the country are sound. I definitely think the local economies are going to count on us to keep operating. Now is just a good time to be prudent and cautious and conduct our business in the most professional way possible.

    I’ll end my post with this and an invitation to share.

    I am a firm believer in faith and fear. I spoke of them earlier in the post. They are opposite reactions to the same belief. A belief in the unknown. I think it is healthy to have fear present because it keeps us from making silly moves and maybe keeps us humble. However, faith is how we move forward. It is what helps us make confident decisions and keeps us strong.

    We’ve been here before as investors and we will all come through the current haziness a little clearer and better for it if we treat others the way we want to be treated. So, have faith!

    @Steve Rozenberg

    Preach it, brother. Anyone wishing for this or looking forward to the fallout is  either a mental case or a psychopath. This is really scary for a lot of people.

     I'm all for making money but not at the expense of other people's real misery. 

    Thanks for reading the post JD and for taking the time to leave a comment.  This is really scary, but I am actually very calm and confident as a business owner and investor after having been through the 2008 recession.  And you are right, for those that look to cash in on misery for money's sake will usually learn a tough lesson in the long run!

    best to you! 

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    6y

    Well said Chris. I believe a lot of the fear is being caused by the media. The media as a whole is for profit and situations like this present an opportunity to sell air time so to speak. Don't get me wrong, the danger is real, just ask the sick or the dead, but the stock market crash is, in my humble opinion, nothing more than fear and more fear. It has been said many times before, the rich act in spite of fear while others allow fear to stop them.

    While there are a number of opportunities now available, to actually cheer for or hope for bad things to profit from them is not the right approach. Helping others, reaching out the needy, and sharing resources to get us through this mess is a much better approach. Do that and I believe you will be rewarded sometime in the future. Now is a time for the Dems/Repubs to come together and get things done rather than fighting over who can do it better. Swift action is required and we need to get our kids back to school and our workers back to work. We can only do that if we kick this virus in the teeth quickly.

    In closing, let me add this food for thought: Stop hoarding toilet paper, its rude as hell!

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Will Barnard:

    Well said Chris. I believe a lot of the fear is being caused by the media. The media as a whole is for profit and situations like this present an opportunity to sell air time so to speak. Don't get me wrong, the danger is real, just ask the sick or the dead, but the stock market crash is, in my humble opinion, nothing more than fear and more fear. It has been said many times before, the rich act in spite of fear while others allow fear to stop them.

    While there are a number of opportunities now available, to actually cheer for or hope for bad things to profit from them is not the right approach. Helping others, reaching out the needy, and sharing resources to get us through this mess is a much better approach. Do that and I believe you will be rewarded sometime in the future. Now is a time for the Dems/Repubs to come together and get things done rather than fighting over who can do it better. Swift action is required and we need to get our kids back to school and our workers back to work. We can only do that if we kick this virus in the teeth quickly.

    In closing, let me add this food for thought: Stop hoarding toilet paper, its rude as hell!

    I really appreciate your taking the time to read this and post on it Will.  You are definitely a leader in our space!  You've given great advice and some words of levity.  We can and will come through this and we know that because we have been in challenging times before.  I'm with you too on the politics stuff and the media.  This is literally out of control, but I also believe you can find whatever you want to find.  If you are looking for positive stories of recovery, they exist.  If you want stories of people helping each other out and even stories about sharing TP, they exist.  We can find whatever confirmation we need for what we want to believe.

    Again, I just choose to believe that we will come through just like last time and most likely much faster and without as much carnage to the RE space.  Im just not sure about the medical cost, so hopefully everyone hunkers down and helps us get to the other side quicker!  Best to you in Cali my man! 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    Most won't walk the talk anyway when the market is crashing.  There is a reason why values go down...no one is buying.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs - thanks for posting on here.  I know there are a lot of people that trust your opinions and appreciate your words, so I am sure many will be helped by what you said.  

    And you made a point that is so good right now. It's not enough to know your numbers but to also know how you are going to get to them and who is going to help you along the way.  What good are numbers if you use a management company and they treat tenants like...well like tenants!  It may be tough to make your numbers then. 

    Right now, investors need to know exactly how to achieve the goals they have set and be crystal clear on how to get to them.  Those that are and take action right now without fear, will most likely be ok.  Those that are fearful and do not take action right now will be fine too, they will just be left looking to take action a little later down the line.  

    I'm not about to chastise anyone for not buying right now or pressure anyone.  I have no idea if now is the right time to buy for every investor, because everyone is different and with different goals.  But for some, the fear in the markets and the fear in the media are not reasons to hold onto your capital tightly.  Faith is where our courage comes from and faith is a belief that I have done my homework and am making a good decision for me.  Not for someone else and not based on what someone else thinks about my real estate goals.  Faith is that I have done my homework and the future is an unknown, but I feel good about where this decision is going.  I spent so much time today with investors giving this exact advice and helped many move forward and some others decide to wait.  But everyone made their decisions based on faith and instead of fear!

    I hate we missed each other at @J. Martins event a few weeks back.  Hope you are feeling better.  Best to you -

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    Most won't walk the talk anyway when the market is crashing.  There is a reason why values go down...no one is buying.

    That's why guys like us have to show them the way.  

  • Realtor · Minneapolis MN · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 61 votes
    6y

    @Chris Clothier

    Love this post! Stay human folks.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Chris Clothier I agree with what you are saying. Even before this virus, I would read people saying they are wishing for a crash. I would quickly call them out on it, because wishing for a crash is wishing for harm to people. People lost their life savings, lost their businesses and some even committed suicide during the last crash. Landlords and flippers lost their businesses. We all like making a profit, but cheering for the fall of others to profit is selfish and short sighted. The truth is all of us could find ourselves in the same situation, depending on how this unfolds. 

    Some of these people are delusional to believe they will even be in a position to profit from this. Access to credit will tighten and people without verifiable income will have trouble getting loans. Even those with cash need the cash to sustain their business.

    The other concern I have is negative image this creates of investors and landlords. There is already a negative perception in the public. The last thing we need is these "bad apples" making all of us look like greedy monsters. Good luck getting the government to help investors or landlords when WE are in trouble if we don't care about those who are in trouble now.

    Lets all do the right thing here, not just to be good people, but because good business cares about people.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Steve Rozenberg:

    Very well said @Chris Clothier. From myself getting thrust into this world of real estate as a result of 9/11 and ripped my life apart as an airline pilot. Getting into real estate was a must not a want. And the mistakes that followed were fast and furious and going thru the SARS, Foot and Mouth, oil bust, Hurricane Harvey and Hurricane Ike, and the 2008 recession. And being more focused on my “why” never proved more relevant and important. If anyone has ever walked those shoes and had the sleepless nights knows this is not something you gloat and make comments to feed the fear and try to look smarter then the average. For people like us that have walked the walk and continue to do so On a daily basis makes you look weak and foolish  and I do believe in such a thing as karma.. it happens and be very careful exploiting others losses and trying to capitalize on them. To me that’s not what this is about. It’s about community and building wealth by helping one another

     Steve,

    Really appreciate your messaging on here and I hope more readers see it.  Making sure our financial house is in order is the whole reason so many of us have worked since the last recession to give good advice.  It is the whole reason so many of us have tried to build companies that provide stability in investments.  The Why.  It is so important and just being a good person is where it all starts.

    Hope you are well.  Best of luck with everything you have working in Houston and beyond!  I think I saw you may be in Australia getting ready to fly back?

    Best to you ~

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    @Chris Clothier I agree with what you are saying. Even before this virus, I would read people saying they are wishing for a crash. I would quickly call them out on it, because wishing for a crash is wishing for harm to people. People lost their life savings, lost their businesses and some even committed suicide during the last crash. Landlords and flippers lost their businesses. We all like making a profit, but cheering for the fall of others to profit is selfish and short sighted. The truth is all of us could find ourselves in the same situation, depending on how this unfolds. 

    Some of these people are delusional to believe they will even be in a position to profit from this. Access to credit will tighten and people without verifiable income will have trouble getting loans. Even those with cash need the cash to sustain their business.

    The other concern I have is negative image this creates of investors and landlords. There is already a negative perception in the public. The last thing we need is these "bad apples" making all of us look like greedy monsters. Good luck getting the government to help investors or landlords when WE are in trouble if we don't care about those who are in trouble now.

    Lets all do the right thing here, not just to be good people, but because good business cares about people.

     Joe, you're definitely a leader out there and I really appreciate your words.  I love your last line and could not agree with you more.  Thanks for taking the time to chime in here!

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Andy Jenkins:

    @Chris Clothier

    Love this post! Stay human folks.

    Stay human!  We're coming out of this stronger.  Thanks Andy 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Nice post Chris as we see the " I cant wait for a crash so I can cash in sentiment a lot on this site"  And probably from the majority that never lived through tough financial times.. Myself being in the business since 75 I have lived and worked through 4 of them and well not sure how much real estate will be affected by this latest one the VIRUS.  It feeds on itself the negative sentiment. 

    Its also wishful thinking in my mind to believe that this Virus Pandemic hits us in the last month or so, and tomorrow there are going to be foreclosures all over the place and investors selling their properties for loss's.

    As long as credit remains available investors will still buy and this situation will subside in 2 to 6 months. 

    I think the lessons learned though for those in real estate especially the buy hold niche is when your providers or financial folks are running proforma's that show reserves for vacancy cap ex etc. that these are not numbers to just think about but numbers that need to move to cash and set in accounts for these exact scenarios. 

    I see this as a wake up call to all investors to make sure they run their numbers and adhere to them. 

    I also am somewhat stunned at some of the responses I have seen when I made a post a few weeks back ( as I was pretty sure landlords would have to work with their tenants short term during this crisis)  that those in the rental business were pretty cavalier with reponses like  ( No pay NO stay,  Not my issue, We are not a charity, ) so on and so forth.. 

    As one who worked through the GFC we learned in these types of situations taking the hardline will cost you far more money than extending some further credit or waving some rent or payments. As you know the Banks learned this the hard way it took them a few years but once they realized what the realities were you saw all sorts of mitigation plans borrowers could use so they could keep their properties. 

    I think current investors need to learn from those situations and get in front of it.. not take such hard stances that you create animosity with your customers / tenants etc.  Investors can be their own worst enemy when they take hard line stances.  I mean really lets say you forgive half rent for 2 months on a 1000.00 rental that's 1000.00 and maybe you ask the tenant to pay you back over the next year or maybe you just waive it all together, the benefits are your house stays occupied your tenants are grateful, as opposed to your tenants are not happy with you the city county says no evictions during these times and now you really have a mess on your hand when you could have cut it off in the beginning.. So then last point if you as a landlord cant afford 1k one time in the course of a year then your not properly capitalized and you might want to re think your safety nets. 

     My rent roll is over $1m/month. Just my accrued property tax bill is about $150k.  Between mortgages, insurance, utilities, and payroll for MY employees (who I’ll pay regardless of if they can come in) I can’t just give bob and sally free or discounted rent

    if just 10% of the rent is lost over a few months that would cost me $1/2 million 


    we’ve made it clear to tenanants that rent will still be due so long as my payments to lenders, insurance, taxes, and the rest are due


    otherwise where do people who are calling for “no rent” think that $ is coming from?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Cody L.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Nice post Chris as we see the " I cant wait for a crash so I can cash in sentiment a lot on this site"  And probably from the majority that never lived through tough financial times.. Myself being in the business since 75 I have lived and worked through 4 of them and well not sure how much real estate will be affected by this latest one the VIRUS.  It feeds on itself the negative sentiment. 

    Its also wishful thinking in my mind to believe that this Virus Pandemic hits us in the last month or so, and tomorrow there are going to be foreclosures all over the place and investors selling their properties for loss's.

    As long as credit remains available investors will still buy and this situation will subside in 2 to 6 months. 

    I think the lessons learned though for those in real estate especially the buy hold niche is when your providers or financial folks are running proforma's that show reserves for vacancy cap ex etc. that these are not numbers to just think about but numbers that need to move to cash and set in accounts for these exact scenarios. 

    I see this as a wake up call to all investors to make sure they run their numbers and adhere to them. 

    I also am somewhat stunned at some of the responses I have seen when I made a post a few weeks back ( as I was pretty sure landlords would have to work with their tenants short term during this crisis)  that those in the rental business were pretty cavalier with reponses like  ( No pay NO stay,  Not my issue, We are not a charity, ) so on and so forth.. 

    As one who worked through the GFC we learned in these types of situations taking the hardline will cost you far more money than extending some further credit or waving some rent or payments. As you know the Banks learned this the hard way it took them a few years but once they realized what the realities were you saw all sorts of mitigation plans borrowers could use so they could keep their properties. 

    I think current investors need to learn from those situations and get in front of it.. not take such hard stances that you create animosity with your customers / tenants etc.  Investors can be their own worst enemy when they take hard line stances.  I mean really lets say you forgive half rent for 2 months on a 1000.00 rental that's 1000.00 and maybe you ask the tenant to pay you back over the next year or maybe you just waive it all together, the benefits are your house stays occupied your tenants are grateful, as opposed to your tenants are not happy with you the city county says no evictions during these times and now you really have a mess on your hand when you could have cut it off in the beginning.. So then last point if you as a landlord cant afford 1k one time in the course of a year then your not properly capitalized and you might want to re think your safety nets. 

     My rent roll is over $1m/month. Just my accrued property tax bill is about $150k.  Between mortgages, insurance, utilities, and payroll for MY employees (who I’ll pay regardless of if they can come in) I can’t just give bob and sally free or discounted rent

    if just 10% of the rent is lost over a few months that would cost me $1/2 million 


    we’ve made it clear to tenanants that rent will still be due so long as my payments to lenders, insurance, taxes, and the rest are due


    otherwise where do people who are calling for “no rent” think that $ is coming from?

    I get it.  its uncharted water will be interesting to see how it all plays out.  

    I worked for a big syndicator in the 80s he had about 200 plus properties billion dollar plus of CA apartments. I  ran their subdivision development arm..  When the earthquake and the war hit..  they got hit real hard on cash flow and just burned through their reserve accounts..  It does not sound like your a syndicator or are beholding to a bunch of investors like these guys were.. they had over 5,000 clients invested in their deals.. and to keep up with their motto  that they never had a bummer they started taking money from property A reserve account to prop up property B.. instead of letting property B get sold for what would have been a loss.. this created a MASSIVE rob peter to pay Paul scenario.. and well I was looking for another job shortly there after :(

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Cody L.

    I'm so scared for you and your employees.... you personally might not stuff your bank account full of money for a few months while people are suffering and dying around the world. I can't believe I didn't see things from your perspective. Thank you for quantifying how hard this might be for your bank account, we will all pray for you and your millions of dollars. Amen.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Cody L.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Nice post Chris as we see the " I cant wait for a crash so I can cash in sentiment a lot on this site"  And probably from the majority that never lived through tough financial times.. Myself being in the business since 75 I have lived and worked through 4 of them and well not sure how much real estate will be affected by this latest one the VIRUS.  It feeds on itself the negative sentiment. 

    Its also wishful thinking in my mind to believe that this Virus Pandemic hits us in the last month or so, and tomorrow there are going to be foreclosures all over the place and investors selling their properties for loss's.

    As long as credit remains available investors will still buy and this situation will subside in 2 to 6 months. 

    I think the lessons learned though for those in real estate especially the buy hold niche is when your providers or financial folks are running proforma's that show reserves for vacancy cap ex etc. that these are not numbers to just think about but numbers that need to move to cash and set in accounts for these exact scenarios. 

    I see this as a wake up call to all investors to make sure they run their numbers and adhere to them. 

    I also am somewhat stunned at some of the responses I have seen when I made a post a few weeks back ( as I was pretty sure landlords would have to work with their tenants short term during this crisis)  that those in the rental business were pretty cavalier with reponses like  ( No pay NO stay,  Not my issue, We are not a charity, ) so on and so forth.. 

    As one who worked through the GFC we learned in these types of situations taking the hardline will cost you far more money than extending some further credit or waving some rent or payments. As you know the Banks learned this the hard way it took them a few years but once they realized what the realities were you saw all sorts of mitigation plans borrowers could use so they could keep their properties. 

    I think current investors need to learn from those situations and get in front of it.. not take such hard stances that you create animosity with your customers / tenants etc.  Investors can be their own worst enemy when they take hard line stances.  I mean really lets say you forgive half rent for 2 months on a 1000.00 rental that's 1000.00 and maybe you ask the tenant to pay you back over the next year or maybe you just waive it all together, the benefits are your house stays occupied your tenants are grateful, as opposed to your tenants are not happy with you the city county says no evictions during these times and now you really have a mess on your hand when you could have cut it off in the beginning.. So then last point if you as a landlord cant afford 1k one time in the course of a year then your not properly capitalized and you might want to re think your safety nets. 

     My rent roll is over $1m/month. Just my accrued property tax bill is about $150k.  Between mortgages, insurance, utilities, and payroll for MY employees (who I’ll pay regardless of if they can come in) I can’t just give bob and sally free or discounted rent

    if just 10% of the rent is lost over a few months that would cost me $1/2 million 


    we’ve made it clear to tenanants that rent will still be due so long as my payments to lenders, insurance, taxes, and the rest are due


    otherwise where do people who are calling for “no rent” think that $ is coming from?

    I empathize with you Cody, but my advice from experience is to do your best with work with your residents. Do your best to work with your team. Regardless of what you want to happen, some will have trouble paying rent, but all will appreciate understanding and a willingness to work with them.  By saying "work with them", I mean a message that says we can work together, but rent needs to be paid.  We're trying to prevent move-outs right now and want to prevent evictions.  I know from 2009-2011, the best way to do that is to be close to and willing to work as closely as possible with residents.  As for your team, you may have to make some very hard decisions, but being open and honest and direct will be your best path.

    By working with residents and being open and honest with your team, you are treating people the way you want to be treated.  Nothing could make you look better than speaking with your own creditors and letting them know the steps you have taken to cut back, work with and do your best by everyone involved and now you need their help as well.  I sincerely wish you the best right now

    I want to make sure I say that I have no judgement of what you wrote.  I'm not in your shoes and I'm not familiar with your business.  We are making hard decisions in our business today and working on the message we are giving to our 6,000 residents.  We are following our own advice and are confident that by treating people with respect we will get it back in return.  Of course, that is how we've always run our business so we are watching and hoping that our build up of relationships with our clients, residents, team and vendors will lead all of them to work with us now.  

    Let me know if you want to jump on a call at any time to discuss anything.  I'm sure you have great business mentors and others to talk with, but wanted to make sure I offered.

  • Adam TafelBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 599 posts · 403 votes
    6y

    Well said @Chris Clothier. I needed this today, greatly appreciate it.

    Upside Property Sales 4.9110 Reviews
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    @Chris Clothier in the tale I told above back in the late 80s.. if these guys I worked for had just been honest with their investors day one they could have saved their company.. not that anyone is in the same boat as them.. I can see from your perspective of managing thousands of doors and literally thousands of investors.. they are going to heavily rely on you and your companies wisdom and guidance through this.. of course not everyone will be affected but those that are its every thing to them.. I know a lot of folks have posted they need rent because their lenders don't care.. I think as you stated especially for larger players talks with your lenders up front could be very prudent.. I think lenders learned that the hard way in the GFC.. and if there is any inkling of mass defaults they are going to have work out programs developed so investors can work with tenants through these times IF and when a tenant has suffered a financial set back because of loss of job or sickness.. My thought all along is that we should be through this in a few months and I would hope that most landlords can weather a few months of negative cash flow at least the smaller investors this should not be something that hurts them financially..  Like we have talked about there is a reason we in the industry advise people to have proper reserves and set aside money for vacancy.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jordan Hawthorn:

    @Cody L.

    I'm so scared for you and your employees.... you personally might not stuff your bank account full of money for a few months while people are suffering and dying around the world. I can't believe I didn't see things from your perspective. Thank you for quantifying how hard this might be for your bank account, we will all pray for you and your millions of dollars. Amen.

    You may not have read much of Cody's posting but he is a no BS tell it like it is guy.. those are just the facts .. I think you owe him an apology. 

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    So there's no way to be a straight forward no nonsense guy, and also show people compassion? What Chris said, to not let people off the hook but to work with them seems very reasonable in a time like this. What dude is saying is no breaks, business as usual who cares about whatever hardship you may be having. I have a problem when people are just dollar signs and you build an empire on their hard work, then are unwilling to work with them. So I'll apologize if I hurt anyones feelings, but just know "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of convenience and comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

    Strength to Love, 1963. Dr. Martin Luther king jr.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jordan Hawthorn:

    @Jay Hinrichs

    So there's no way to be a straight forward no nonsense guy, and also show people compassion? What Chris said, to not let people off the hook but to work with them seems very reasonable in a time like this. What dude is saying is no breaks, business as usual who cares about whatever hardship you may be having. I have a problem when people are just dollar signs and you build an empire on their hard work, then are unwilling to work with them. So I'll apologize if I hurt anyones feelings, but just know "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of convenience and comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

    Strength to Love, 1963. Dr. Martin Luther king jr. 

    I am 1000% sure he will be working with his tenants in many different ways to keep his business running smooth.. its a normal sentiment to want your rent paid, but reality is going to come into focus here.. there are simply good people that are not going to be able to pay.. And every landlord will have to deal with it.

    I just got two letters from larger syndicators on this site.. One is waiving rents for one month on all 5,000 of their doors. The other said they will be working with their tenants in many different facets..  I just think we can disagree on someone's thought process and be civil about it. 

    I started a thread 2 weeks ago asking what landlords were going to do if a GREAT tenant who had been on time every time found themselves unable to pay rent.. 75% or more of BP folks that answered said they would evict and not work with them.

    Now two weeks later most of those folks have drastically changed their tune..  I personally don't have a dog in the rental hunt.. at one time I had 350 houses.. so I understand the need for cash flow when you scale up and have sizable debt.  I sold out 5 years ago..  But I still do deals and I know I always have to work with those I finance through good and bad.

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