Findrise is unable to repay my Investment

Findrise is unable to repay my Investment

Rental Property Investor · U.S.A. · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 7 votes

I requested to redeem the funds I had invested over at "Fundrise" back in January 2020 (before the pandemic) for a Capital Expenditure budgeted for March.... Still waiting!!!!

Now they send me this:

Fundrise Advisors, in our capacity as Manager of the eREITs and eFunds, has determined that it is necessary at this time to suspend the processing and fulfillment of redemption requests.

While under normal market conditions, we seek to provide investors with the ability to redeem their investments on a regular basis, during times of financial crisis or extreme uncertainty, it is absolutely critical that we suspend redemptions in order to protect the interests of all our investors.

As Manager, we have an obligation to make decisions based upon what is best for the entire Fundrise investor community and must always put the priorities of the whole above any one individual.

Fundamentally, Fundrise investors own real property, which is simply not liquid. In conditions such as those we face today, fulfilling redemption requests would require us to either substantially deplete vital cash reserves, or, even worse, potentially sell assets into a down market, likely at a price far below actual value. We believe that either of these actions would materially increase the risk of unnecessary loss or otherwise avoidable problems for the vast majority of our investors who have not requested to redeem and intend to stay invested for the long term.

We recognize that the current coronavirus pandemic is evolving every day and therefore the situation may change rapidly. Accordingly, once we conclude the risk from the crisis has receded and the market has returned to more normal conditions, we expect to resume processing redemptions. However, at this time, ensuring that the portfolios are strongly positioned to weather even the most severe downturn is the prudent decision.

We are aware of the fact that this may be a difficult time for some of our investors and want to reiterate that this was not a decision we have taken lightly. As always, we are available to answer any questions at (email address here)

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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

@Larry Melton hopefully you didn’t invest too much as that money is likely gone


My thoughts exactly. I am never a fan of these types of sites. If deals were they good they wouldn’t need to raise $ on fundrise with the amount  of $ available in the markets. 

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  • Developer · CA · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    Hi Larry,

    I feel for you, this is a hard time for everyone in the business.


    Regarding their response, it does make sense. As a commercial investor who raises private funds; its very hard to let someone exit in a time like this as the investing market is often frozen in a time like this. The investor/developer has debt/equity obligations so they can’t just return investment capital assuming they executed on the deal.

    In a smaller environment we’d do what we reasonably can to work with someone but you can’t let someone exit from the investment without a replacement investor.   At times like this it can get turbulent with multiple cash Investors wanting to exit. You help where you can but at some point; assuming the investment is still viable, the GP has to focus on the investment and move forward for the sake of the investor group as a whole. It can be a vicious cycle constantly spending time trying to raise money to replace past investors, the project doesn’t get focused on... and that’s when people really start to lose money. The GPs fiduciary responsibility is to do the work and get the investors the best return possible assuming the investment is still viable. If not they should exit as best they can and return as much of your capital as possible. Assuming they’re also invested they are surely doing this calculation and trying to optimize the situation.

    Hope it works out for you and they work with you as best they can. Just another perspective.

    Take care,

    Michael


  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    run on who bank.. i am sure its happening to many raised money with the notion that you could redeem with notice.
    just have to ride it out
  • Whittier , CA · Member since 2013 · 176 posts · 96 votes
    6y

     When you invest in a "fund" you are at the mercy of the managers. No way around this. 

    Pray they don't lose it all as many REITs are in trouble.  

  • Developer · CA · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 10 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jacob Villalobos:

     When you invest in a "fund" you are at the mercy of the managers. No way around this. 

    Pray they don't lose it all as many REITs are in trouble.  

    REITs are garbage as they make most of their money on the fund size; not based on how the investments individually do. They constantly have to apply the capital and the more they raise the better off they are; therefore they're less careful on which deals they take down ultimately meaning they overpay and overpursue. REITs are fine in an up market but historically do poorly compared to individually run investments in down markets.

    All of our investments are fine right now as we bought them below market value knowing the market was high; REITs in our area have been overpaying for years.

  • Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 31 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    What does concern me is that a redemption request was filed back in January, before you know what hit the fan, so why haven't they complied then?

    Is it truly being prudent in the face of the frozen economy we are faced with, or deeper, structural issues with the fund itself? Remember, Madoff undoing wasn't the market crash, it merely exposed his house of cards.

    I hope that's not the case here as I am truly rooting for the democratization of capital in CRE.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    6y

    @Richard W.

    Sorry to hear this

    Few questions I have as I have always been against sites like fundrise

    1. Are you able to discuss the investment with the fund manager ?

    2. Does the fund allow for you to withdraw funds from the fund?

    Thanks

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  • Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 31 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    @Chris Seveney I think these questions need to be directed at the original poster of the thread, as he’s the one who attempted a redemption not me.

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Larry Melton hopefully you didn’t invest too much as that money is likely gone

  • Rental Property Investor · U.S.A. · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Caleb Heimsoth yeah I dropped 10K. About a year ago when they first started pimping it on BP. I had just paid off a crap load of debt and was above 0 for the first time in five years so I dropped my wad on fundrise to capture 8% while I looked for properties to invest in. Then towards the end of last year I grabbed this duplex here in Austin and now I need to do some remodeling but my cash is stuck with fundrise.

  • Rental Property Investor · U.S.A. · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Chris Seveney

    Yeah the Redemption. Last year was only one month. They extended it this year and right after they extended it I requested my Redemption as I needed the funds for this remodel I'm doing here in Austin.

    Kind of stuff now but if I continue to get 8% on my investment I'll be okay.

    I'll have to do the remodel later in the year... was hoping to pop some new windows in before summer here ... Austin gets pretty hot

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    @Larry Melton hopefully you didn’t invest too much as that money is likely gone


    My thoughts exactly. I am never a fan of these types of sites. If deals were they good they wouldn’t need to raise $ on fundrise with the amount  of $ available in the markets. 

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  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Its no surprise. In a time like this there is potential for panic and everyone to withdraw money from funds. REITS are non liquid unlike a mutual fund which can liquidate assets quickly (even while losing money) to manage redemptions. RE assets cannot be sold quickly and funds usually maintain only a small cash position so they can give the promised returns. I have no knowledge of fundraise but my Private Placement investments have also blocked redemptions for the time being, which is actually the right thing to do. Otherwise a small number of investors running for the hills can force a collapse of the entire fund.

  • Josh C.Pro Member
    Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Caleb Heimsoth

    That money is likely gone? Above a 50% chance of him not getting a penny back? Not so sure about that. What are you basing that on? I have no money with them and no connection but that a pretty bold statement.

  • Rental Property Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 22 votes
    6y

    @Chris Seveney

    This 100%. Why would you offer good deals to random people and dilute yourself?

  • Ronald RohdePro Member
    Attorney · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Do you have a right to redemption? If not, I think you can just be thankful for distribution checks. If those stop, I'd be making class action noises

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Josh C. He may get some or none of it back. These deals will be the first to go belly up as the recession sinks in.

  • Real Estate Agent · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2016 · 518 posts · 283 votes
    6y

    @Michael Stoltey You clearly don't understand how REIT's work, the high quality blue chip REIT's have excellent corporate governance and are very aligned with the shareholders and are not just paid for fund size. They have compensation linked to growing FFO and other reit metrics. Second REIT's can over pay for properties and still increase the value of the shares due to arbitrage between the public and private markets if there share price is trading at a premium to Net Asset Value. They can also sell properties at a loss and still possibly increase the value of there shares if they're trading at a discount to net asset value. Also research show that publicly traded REIT's have outperformed historically the general stock market and also private real estate over the last 50ish years.

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Larry Melton I remember receiving a letter from Fundrise a while back stating that they would restrict redemptions if liquidity was challenged from redemptions and that they hoped we understood RE is a long term investment and not that liquid. They consider 5 years as long term. I thought at the time it made sense. I like their model as they buy quality property that isn’t high yield but good long term. Checks have been consistent but going forward we are all in the same boat.

  • Whittier , CA · Member since 2013 · 176 posts · 96 votes
    6y

    Without a reading of the agreement it's hard to understand when you are allowed to withdraw money, but it would seem like fundraise keeps moving the target.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Josh C.:

    @Caleb Heimsoth

    That money is likely gone? Above a 50% chance of him not getting a penny back? Not so sure about that. What are you basing that on? I have no money with them and no connection but that a pretty bold statement.

     It may be a bold statement, but the underlying assets here are likely to have performance problems in the coming months. I could see it all collapsing like a house of cards. I hope that is not the case, but I would agree with Caleb it seems bad.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    I'm not invested in fundrise. But have invested in REITs. My REIT investment are in deep red and I'm hoping they survive.

    Regd fundrise - are they regulated? A few months ago I looked up a few properties at fundrise being advertised at ~70+% higher list price than Zillow value. If investors bite, sure - they deserve the high yield as promised.

    I hate to bring this up when OP’s in this unfortunate situation: Fundrise does strike me somewhat as a MLM scheme. If it’s not, then of course, this won’t be the first time I’ve been terribly wrong in money matters.

    OP - all the best. Hope we all come out of this without many long term bruises. 👍

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock like others have said it is basic math. They only have so much cash, and as the market drops (which it will, by likely a lot), and the underlying properties struggle to pay everyone (the investors, the bank, fundrise etc), the amount of cash on hand will dwindle.

    It’ll then likely either refuse redemption all together or go bankrupt (at which the investment is lost).

    Fundrise deals are likely all mediocre to begin with and that’s in a good economy. At 15-20 percent employment and shrinking GDP it gets much worse.

    Could I be wrong? Sure. Will it be pretty if I’m not wrong? No. All of the economy projects are not good. We’ve had 6M people file for unemployment in 2 weeks

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    Funds or syndicators most wouldn't allow mass cash calls from investors to get their liquidity back. It doesn't work that way as businesses would quickly be bankrupted.

    It makes sense for investors to honor their commitments with signed agreements and keep the money in the investment as stipulated with what they signed and legally agreed to.

    Investments are not guaranteed to deliver a return. The agreements tend to outline what is hoped for and expected but nothing is absolute for returns. 

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Their assets stand at approx 1.1B with 175,000,000 in cash or about 18% and no leverage. 

  • Member since 2020 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    I am here to share my story too. 

    I started investing with fundrise on October 2019 and in February 25th 2020 due to unsatisfactory returns I decided to liquidate my accounts. 

    At this time there was no panic in US, the Dow Jones was fine and fundrise had no notice of suspension of redemption on their site. 

    So I requested for my shares to be liquidated. As usual they require waiting period  till end of quarter to make a decision.

    So now it when I log back in my account on March 1st it says that all redemption request has been suspended and they denied my request. I understand in time of panic fundrise can't let people redeem their shares to keep their company intact but my request was filed on February 25th when there was no panic. Do was fine etc. Two weeks later things went awful. I don't understand how I can be held accountable to adhere to fundraisers policy of no redemption during economy downturn when the downturn actually started after my request.

    I know I can't do anything except follow their decision.

    I just came here to warn new investors. Again I was ok with idea that I can't liquidate in bear market.

    But fundrise refused redemption even when request was received prior to downturn.

    This is main message.

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