Sheriff sale - need free title reports

New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes

I’m looking for on line websites that provide free title reports on sherif sale properties.... I am an investor from west coast. I had connections there with title companies that provided free title reports. I’m having tougj luck here in east coast, PA and NJ. I called over 50 title companies and they want $400-500 per property. That’s too expensive and generally they need 10 days to 2 weeks notice in advance for comprehensive title report. Each week sherif sale listing comes out and properties are different. I need title reports within a week. Any help is appreciated

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Tom GimerBusiness Member

DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

Free on this coast is DIY.

All the information is public, you just need to know how and what to retrieve, review and analyze.

I can't imagine giving away that work that for free with the hope of insuring a high risk transaction.

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Tom GimerBusiness Member
DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Free on this coast is DIY.
All the information is public, you just need to know how and what to retrieve, review and analyze.
I can't imagine giving away that work that for free with the hope of insuring a high risk transaction.
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Chris K.
Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Basically what @Tom Gimer said. In Pennsylvania, you can sometimes get the title report from the law firm that handles the foreclosure since they often need to do a title search as part of the foreclosure process. But as as practical matter, you will need to learn how to DIY it.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
@Ricky Si what you don't realize is that west coast and east coast title searchs are 180 degrees different from each other.
on the west coast most of the big title companies their title plant has been moved off shore and its all digitized.
title reports on those states are still done by hand and in person ergo you have to pay for them.
you can do some work yourself but its not west coast process by any means.
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Ricky Si
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New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Tom Gimer. Tom- I’ve been doing my due diligence. Ex: check local county/tax records. Zillow.... mls. Review deeds etc... My concern is sometimes IRS tax liens don’t show up in county or township treasurer records.....
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Chris K. @sherif sale they don’t provide title reports. Just the upset value
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs Jay_ you are absolutely right. In CA I can email title company day of the sherif sale and within two hours I’ll get the clear to close title very or detail title report..... i am finding it very difficult here on the east coast
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
Jay_ you are absolutely right. In CA I can email title company day of the sherif sale and within two hours I’ll get the clear to close title very or detail title report..... i am finding it very difficult here on the east coast
one title plant is digital and accessed anywhere in the world the other title plant is at the courthouse and is done through manual labor.
that's what they call a title abstractor.. we don't have those folks on the West coast.. at least the same type of position you find in other states..
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
Jay_ you are absolutely right. In CA I can email title company day of the sherif sale and within two hours I’ll get the clear to close title very or detail title report..... i am finding it very difficult here on the east coast
when I was an active buyer of courthouse steps our title company kept a running spread sheet of every NOD in the 3 county area and updated it daily for us.. then we call customer service morning of and they do a date down for us on the phone..
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Chris K.
Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Ricky Si
In Pennsylvania, the foreclosing lawyers often conduct a title search on the property during the foreclosure process. As a former lawyer for national and regional banks, it's something I had to do hundreds --- if not thousand --- of times. Now getting the foreclosing lawyer to share that with you is a different matter. But they exist.
For IRS Tax Liens, it sounds like you are not looking at the correct places. In most parts of Pennsylvania, you should be looking for a Notice of Lien at the prothonotary. Also note that the IRS Tax Lien does not trump a senior mortgage as long as the mortgagee took the correct steps during the foreclosure process.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Chris K. Great advise. I appreciate your expert input. Do these rules apply to NJ as well??
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Benjamin Haberman
Real Estate Broker · Ocean View, NJ · Member since 2014 · 188 posts · 82 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
Jay_ you are absolutely right. In CA I can email title company day of the sherif sale and within two hours I’ll get the clear to close title very or detail title report..... i am finding it very difficult here on the east coast
when I was an active buyer of courthouse steps our title company kept a running spread sheet of every NOD in the 3 county area and updated it daily for us.. then we call customer service morning of and they do a date down for us on the phone..
Jay,
How much would you pay for the title company having a running spreadsheet of every sale?
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Benjamin Haberman:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
Jay_ you are absolutely right. In CA I can email title company day of the sherif sale and within two hours I’ll get the clear to close title very or detail title report..... i am finding it very difficult here on the east coast
when I was an active buyer of courthouse steps our title company kept a running spread sheet of every NOD in the 3 county area and updated it daily for us.. then we call customer service morning of and they do a date down for us on the phone..
Jay,
How much would you pay for the title company having a running spreadsheet of every sale?
we did not pay anything.. keep in mind West coast and East coast title companies are so completely different.. we have a customer service department that is all digitized.. info is at their computer monitor and in their data base.. you simply could not do what they do out east.. your title plants are not digital in format from what i know.. so thats why you have to pay for a title search.. we get date downs on the phone in 60 seconds thats enough to bid with..
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Benjamin Haberman
Real Estate Broker · Ocean View, NJ · Member since 2014 · 188 posts · 82 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Benjamin Haberman:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
Jay_ you are absolutely right. In CA I can email title company day of the sherif sale and within two hours I’ll get the clear to close title very or detail title report..... i am finding it very difficult here on the east coast
when I was an active buyer of courthouse steps our title company kept a running spread sheet of every NOD in the 3 county area and updated it daily for us.. then we call customer service morning of and they do a date down for us on the phone..
Jay,
How much would you pay for the title company having a running spreadsheet of every sale?
we did not pay anything.. keep in mind West coast and East coast title companies are so completely different.. we have a customer service department that is all digitized.. info is at their computer monitor and in their data base.. you simply could not do what they do out east.. your title plants are not digital in format from what i know.. so thats why you have to pay for a title search.. we get date downs on the phone in 60 seconds thats enough to bid with..
That is interesting. So are you saying that the east coast is behind on times with the way they do title? I wonder why that is....
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs That makes sense. That’s probably why it takes forever and can run up to 300-400 for each title report. Makes it difficult to bid at sherif sales.....
0 Reply
Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs When I tell people that here in NJ or DE they think I’m crazy. I bought some properties in CA and I’d get the listing around 9am... I’d contact the title company I worked with and bam by 11 I’d have 60 years of title history...
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Benjamin Haberman I believe reason it’s free there because most likely you will end up buying the title insurance from them and they’d make money that way plus they will make a long teem relationship with you for future business..
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
When I tell people that here in NJ or DE they think I’m crazy. I bought some properties in CA and I’d get the listing around 9am... I’d contact the title company I worked with and bam by 11 I’d have 60 years of title history...
yup West coast have digital title plants.. and the other east coast the records are at court house and an abstractor has to collect them for a fee.. or you have to do it yourself..
keep in mind East coast records are far older than west coast.. we are babys .. most records start with Spanish land grants..
along with section and range descriptions.. with 90% of the searchs done in lot and block.
Just like some states people actually survey an SFR before they buy it.. that simply is never done in a subdivision on the west coast if you asked for one realtors and others would look at you like your were from Mars or maybe Venus
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Chris K. Are you saying if property has a Sr lien over irs tax lien, it will be wiped out? I don’t think that’s correct. I believe, all federal liens remain and must be paid even though if they are jr liens.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Chris K.
Are you saying if property has a Sr lien over irs tax lien, it will be wiped out? I don’t think that’s correct. I believe, all federal liens remain and must be paid even though if they are jr liens.
IRS has 120 days to redeem .. the IRS leins are not wiped out at sale but they sunset at 120 days.. or you can fill out a form and ask them to abandon their right of redemption. also if they redeem they owe you what you paid plus statory interest which i think is 9%.. but you do any work past winterizing and you lose those improvements.
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs Great input. I was working on one property and I did exactly that , I searched by lot and block numbers. Went thru humdreds of pages of deeds etc..... Property had an irs lien on it but it didn’t show up anywhere and sherif didn’t mention it either. It had 50,000 irs tax lien behind the 1st mtg. Dodged a big bullet there, thankfully I didn’t buy it...but again if I had the title, it would’ve showed up there.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
Great input. I was working on one property and I did exactly that , I searched by lot and block numbers. Went thru humdreds of pages of deeds etc..... Property had an irs lien on it but it didn’t show up anywhere and sherif didn’t mention it either. It had 50,000 irs tax lien behind the 1st mtg. Dodged a big bullet there, thankfully I didn’t buy it...but again if I had the title, it would’ve showed up there.
well I would have bought it if it was a deal.. IRS never redeems its so rare as to never happen.. but for sure you cant get a new loan on it for 120 days or sell it.. so if that's an issue you should pass.
we liked IRS liens kept the folks that did not know how it really works or could not keep their capital out 120 days.. got some smokin deals this way
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Ricky Si
OP
New York Mills, NY · Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs I see you work in summerlin. Is this in lv? That’s the only summerlin I know. I bought few homes last year at reverence. They should be ready beginning of next yr, beautiful community. I bought them in 1st phase. They have gone up already.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
I see you work in summerlin. Is this in lv? That’s the only summerlin I know. I bought few homes last year at reverence. They should be ready beginning of next yr, beautiful community. I bought them in 1st phase. They have gone up already.
yup Summerlin NV.. we bought 3 years ago so pretty good deal. but friends of mine that bought in 2011 to 2012 KILLED it.. far better than those that talk about appreciation is luck or icing or whatever non sense they like to couch that buying for cash flow only is the only sane way to buy real estate.. LOL..
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Benjamin Haberman
Real Estate Broker · Ocean View, NJ · Member since 2014 · 188 posts · 82 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Ricky Si:
@Jay Hinrichs
Great input. I was working on one property and I did exactly that , I searched by lot and block numbers. Went thru humdreds of pages of deeds etc..... Property had an irs lien on it but it didn’t show up anywhere and sherif didn’t mention it either. It had 50,000 irs tax lien behind the 1st mtg. Dodged a big bullet there, thankfully I didn’t buy it...but again if I had the title, it would’ve showed up there.
well I would have bought it if it was a deal.. IRS never redeems its so rare as to never happen.. but for sure you cant get a new loan on it for 120 days or sell it.. so if that's an issue you should pass.
I go to the sheriffs sales every week. I have a virtual assistant who updates a Google Sheet for me for every property. She fills out beds/baths/sq ft/ lot size/zestimate (for quick reference)/link to Zillow/link to google maps.....
After reading this forum though, I am now worried that some of these auctions could be 2nd mortgages. What is the easiest way to find this out? I can't run a title search on every property because it would cost me $200 for every search.
Also- what is easiest way to find out about IRS tax liens?
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Chris K.
Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Ricky Si
Basically what @Jay Hinrichs said. To be precise, the Pennsylvania sheriff's sale wipes out the lien but doesn't destroy the right to redemption. As Jay explained, it's honestly not the end of the world if the IRS exercises the redemption right.
Now for the above to happen, the mortgagee needs to follow very specific steps. This is because the federal government is a "sovereign" and they are entitled to something called a "sovereign immunity." So the mortgagees must follow specific procedural rules when trying to divest an IRS Tax Lien (or any federal liens for that matter). Institutional mortgagees typically don't mess up on this for normal foreclosures.
On final note, the law on this topic can change pretty drastically depending on the state and the federal circuit. Some people assume that federal law automatically trumps state law but that's not always the case. There's a lot of caselaw out there discussing how the federal law on this topic interacts with state law. So you need to be aware of both state law and federal caselaw on the topic.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
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